@AndrasDeak This is very much a big portion of the problem. Communication has degraded and getting aggressive.

@Novak It's not just you seeing this. 😉 Thanks for putting words onto an impression I have had.

@KorvinStarmast I'm sorry, I can't agree and I can't stand by. While you may agree with the sentiment, I'm not seeing evidence of it - just impressions of others who think there are. But more importantly, what happened above is in no way acceptable. We shouldn't be thanking anyone for aggressive comments.

@NautArch I have mentioned, more than once, in the past year or so my feeling that the site (the library of questions and answers, as it were) is being vandalized (well, that's how I see it) without malice by a misguided application of closure protocols. We've had a number of discussions back and forth on that which have left me somewhat unsatisfied as a result. @KRyan's answer in Meta struck a chord with me, and I find myself in almost complete agreement with it.

@KorvinStarmast Much of what Kryan said was spot-on, but the rant against what he believes users to be doing isn't necessarily true and the tone of that was unacceptable for me - enough to downvote even though I agree with a lot of it.

@NautArch I have been unable to articulate some of what's been bugging me, and how Novak expressed that puts a finger on it in terms of the impression I have been getting. I stayed out of the comment on meta under UC's answer as all I'd have added was noise, not signal.

I really don't want to get into the specifics of the ideas. I'm talking about how we address each other and resolve disputes.

What happened here is not acceptable.

And if we think that it is, then we have crossed a line that I'm pretty sad about.

@NautArch OK, I missed the back and forth as it happened, so I am sure that I did not see or feel the tone that got mod/room owner attention directed here.

And if we think that acting that way is okay and are willing to support those because we generally agree with the issue...well, that says something, too.

We can and should be better.

I have generally stayed out of this room for a variety of reasons, and your point on the tone of discourse is agreed.

The more we dig in with like-minded individuals, the more it becomes Us Vs Them. And from my view, we are deep into corners right now.

That's why I'm not agreeing with folks whose tone is no longer one that is open, but coming from a "I'm right you're wrong".

As right as we think someone is, if they are coming from that place then they are wrong.

@NautArch I don't think that's a helpful position. What someone says, the content, is important. We can argue about style and tone until the cows come home.

@KorvinStarmast I disagree. We're all adults here and we should be treating each other respectfully. If you aren't, then your position is degraded. How degraded may be up to the individual - but for me after watching discourse here, it's very important.

If we can't talk to each other with respect, then your statements aren't respectful.

Yeah, I don’t think “I’m right you’re wrong” is an unhealthy attitude here. The unhealthy attitude that I’ve seen put forward is more like “I’m right, and you’re wrong, and you being wrong is the worst thing thats ever happened to the stack”.

@NautArch Wait, are you personalizing this conversation? ??? Am I being disrespectful to you? are we talking at cross purposes?

@KorvinStarmast Definitely not!!!

@NautArch OK, got it, the 'general you' usage, got it. Sorry.

@KorvinStarmast No worries - but thank you for checking :)

@KorvinStarmast general yousage

@ThomasMarkov OK, you are awarded an inspiration point. 😀

anyway, I'll go back to not visiting this room; I seem to have upset a friend by visiting here today and I'd rather not do that.

@KorvinStarmast Not upset with you - I'm upset with the level of discourse on the site and what we are doing when faced with it.

My view is that the more we 'upvote' negative discourse because we agree with sentiment, then the more we approve of that sort of communication.

And for me, it's more important we fix our communication with each other before doing anything else.

Otherwise, everything reverts to Us vs Them.

@NautArch I was thinking about getting into 3-gun until ammo got so stupid expensive.

@ThomasMarkov Is buying ammo across state lines a no-no?

@NautArch depends on that state lol

@ThomasMarkov Apparently my mechanic also has a license to sell ammo.

I now miss that weird competition TV show about trickshots, guns, throwing things and whatnot

US state based gun law differences are a full on mess

@Medix2 It's not the same, but Forged in Fire is pretty awesome.

It is!

@NautArch Yeah, in your state you need a license

In my state I can buy ammo off the internet and sell it to my neighbor for profit.

@Medix2 US state based gun law differences are a full on mess

I wonder how that all works with internet sales and all that kind of stuff

@Medix2 Depends on the state rofl

I can ship everything except a literal firearm to my door.

I've had college debates on the drinking age, gun laws, the driving age, and the age of consent... my general conclusion is that state laws can be just aggravating

Also, to clarify my last comment, the legal definition of "literal firearm" is pretty unintuitive.

It's really interesting looking into why states have the laws they have. Because sometimes it's "our neighbor did it" sometimes it's "our people hold these values" sometimes it's "we tried all the other options" or "we don't want to pay taxes" or even "we got tired of the court cases and made a clear law instead"

@ThomasMarkov Me, thinking about "assault rifle" and "AR" and how those just aren't defined and vary wildly :(

@Medix2 "AR" is a trade name that entered common use.

@Medix2 eh... "assault rifle" is a clearly defined term

California has a pretty objective definition of "assault rifle", but a common criticism is that it is arbitrary. But at least you can be pretty sure what counts and what doesnt.

are you sure that definition is of "assault rifle" and not "assault weapon"

@Carcer Right.

"assault rifle" is specific terminology for a weapon which fires an intermediate cartridge and is capable of selecting between automatic and semi-auto fire; "assault weapon" is a much less specific term that's sprung up in law

situation not helped by the fact that "assault weapon" seems deliberately chosen to make people think "assault rifle" without actually saying "assault rifle", and the pervasiveness of the AR-15, in which AR does not stand for assault rifle but it looks like an assault rifle and probably counts as an "assault weapon" depending on exactly how that's locally defined

@ThomasMarkov They cracked down on shipping radionuclides and class B biologicals to residential addresses a number of years ago.

@ThomasMarkov Potato guns are firearms in my state, but gauss cannons aren't.

@GcL So you can get charged with illegally manufacturing a firearm for making a spud cannon?

@GcL Does this apply to pneumatic cannons?

@ThomasMarkov That wasn't the charge I recall. I think it was much more minor than that. Illegally discharging one in the city limits. Essentially a fine for making enough noise that the neighbors call the police.

@ThomasMarkov Yes.

It has to be big enough to be considered a weapon though, so little toys and marshmallow shooters etc are pretty clearly not.

We really should just get rid of all guns and go back to fighting with lightsabers. They really were weapons of a more civilized time. Plus, it's not like a handgun is going to help you when Neo & company bust in your door to use your phone.

@GcL Hot take: the lightsaber fighting style is the one redeeming quality of the prequel trilogy.

The lightsaber fighting style is essentially the same as any other bladed weapons style; cut off the opponents extremities or stab their vital parts. You can still use Bonetti's Defense when fighting in rocky terrain, and it's going to likely get you attacked with Capa Ferro.

@NautArch Yeah, there is that problem, and it may be amplified by games being the topic and the 'desire to win' game being an operating sub game at various levels.

@KorvinStarmast Yep :(

The gamification of helping people is...weird.

Sort of like in Judaism where it's much less of a good deed if you go around telling everyone you did a good deed.

@NautArch Nice example. :)

← 36 messages moved from TRPG General Chat