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12:01 AM
@TheDragonOfFlame oooh I see what you mean
 
 
2 hours later…
Ben
2:12 AM
Ok, so where do I put the Mimic? There are several settings: A jungle-esque area at the edge of the island, interior to a cave/mineshaft, and the "king's hoard"
I'm thinking if I put it in the first area, it's a banana tree
"Whomping Willow" style
 
2:34 AM
@Draconic I have the Campaign Setting book for Pathfinder 1e pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Campaign_Setting which includes a pronunciation guide on various words and describes Mwangi to a certain extent
 
@Exempt-Medic Excellent! I'm very curious what it says.
 
"Mwangi: Language: Polyglot"

"Polyglot: The countless dialects of Garund’s Mwangi tribesfolk share enough remnants of a mysterious root language that members of different tribes from vastly divergent regions of the Expanse can generally understand one another even though they appear to be speaking completely different languages."

"Zenj names are usually short and clipped, with hard consonants and many glottal stops and clicks that cannot be easily transcribed in written languages (! equals a velaric clicking noise in the back of the throat or velum and ‘ is used to denote a glottal stop).
The "pronunciation guide" is... less than perfect though. With such wonderful entries as "Styx - STIKS" "Shax - SHAX" "djinn - JIHN"
 
Oh, fascinating, I didn't expect them to actually try to explain click consonants
 
They certainly tried
 
I don't know if that would be especially helpful to someone who didn't already know how clicks worked, but I don't know if I could come up with a better explanation in text either
 
2:41 AM
Yeah, same, and I majored in sounds XD
 
The ability to link to videos is very useful for teaching pronunciation these days
Oh hey, nice, linguistics?
 
It will take me a while to figure out what words in the pronunciation guide are actually in Mwangi/Polyglot , but there's at least these ones: "jukamis - joo KAH mihs" "Mwangi - MWAN gi" "Sargava - sahr GAH vah"
 
Ty! Later tonight I'll extrapolate a bit from these and see what I can come up with for the asker's list.
 
@Draconis Yeah, I majored in mathematics and linguistics with focuses on nonlinear dynamics and phonetics/phonology respectively
 
Nice! I'm a grad student currently teaching phonetics, so I always appreciate seeing language questions here.
 
2:52 AM
Random facts about my speech: I apparently never learned the dark/velar L in English properly and my brain decided it made sense to instead use the uvular nasal. My brain also decided to pronounce cat's and cats' differently and generalizes the -en of soften, harden, darken, etc... to regularly produce words like colden and warmen
 
Upcoming crowdfunding: Coming soon: Here We Used to Fly by Kurt Refling. A tabletop role-playing game about abandoned theme parks and the bittersweet nostalgia of growing up.
GontijoDesign wrote a twitter thread of "RPGs COULD LOOK LIKE THIS"
Crowdfunding: Aether: A Heroic Fantasy RPG by Eldritch Crow. A fully realized card based heroic fantasy tabletop role-playing game. You can get the original version of the game here.
"One Way to Frame a Dungeon – Disaster Dungeons" by bankuei on Deeper in the Game
Viditya Violeti wrote a twitter thread about why The Goblin Pulls Out A Gun is "a cool system to mess around with"
Brave Extreme by Alexander Sheep. Extreme sports for Brave Zenith
 
Random worldbuilding idea that came to me in the shower: There are two neighbouring countries (names undecided), whose capital cities face each other across a river - Queenstown & Kingston. They were originally one country, but split as a result of a nasty break-up between the rulers. (Or for an optimistic alternative, reverse the story - they used to be 2 countries but were united by marriage)
 
Jonaya Kemper wrote a twitter thread about "often Black children get surprised when I tell them that Black game designers exist"
one thread, many patterns by Rue (ilananight). a journaling game about witnessing the life of a single soul
I SPY Zine by mellific. Wander the big city, visit the zoo, and travel to space in this zine of illustrated ​I SPY activities!​
Jonaya Kemper wrote a twitter thread about The Ultimate Micro-RPG Book and why she uses it in their indie RPG class.
"One way to stock a dungeon" by bankuei on Deeper in the Game
Hell Cabin by World Champ Game Co. Asymmetrical Gm-less horror RPG for fans of Evil Dead
Stewpot - Playtesting Now A tavern simulation roleplaying game for 3+ players by Takuma Okada
Jonaya Kemper wrote a twitter thread about a problem with "ttrpg mechanics that try to make your abilities 'realistic'"
Kazumi Chin wrote on twitter about how "safety isn’t like an addendum to your social spaces but is the fundamental ground work upon which being together in a fulfilling way is possible."
 
3:39 AM
@BESW I had a look at this - that's a neat little system to build on
 
What do you like about it?
 
@BESW because of how the dice get paired off your get to narrate how each set resolve, not just the overall result
It's also really well written with plenty of advice for playing, like when to roll... Which is impressive given its length
 
4:17 AM
@ThomasMarkov bringing back the Grung poison, would that be 1/Short rest or PB/Short Rest?
@Someone_Evil do the paths I mentioned change much about how to play the character in your opinion?
 
4:45 AM
@AncientSwordRage yeah, I'm very appreciative of texts that go into the details of why choices are made and what fiddling with them might do.
 
Ben
5:26 AM
I need a name for bananas that a tribal people would have never seen before. E.g. "yellowskins"
 
pomme de jaune
 
@BESW yeah that was a great section
@BESW pomme de palme?
 
"Banana" is literally just "we actually asked the locals what they called it, and used that name."
 
@BESW surprisingly effective
 
And a lot of variant names like guineos are "we named it for the place we mostly buy it from."
 
5:38 AM
:Glares at 'Pineapple':
 
But if you're looking for a name disconnected from the language's relationship to the people who introduced the object, then [thing we already know] [but different like this] is a good formula.
 
Ben
So like "yellow skin" or "yellow fingers"
 
The French for potato is "ground apple" and the French for tomato is "love apple."
So I suggested the French for "yellow apple."
(See also: how many German animals are "pig but different.")
 
Plantains are named for their broad leaves, so that's another route
 
Ben
Ahh I see
 
5:41 AM
@BESW I love that
 
Ben
I was thinking more along the lines of Lizardpeople haha
 
Your lizard people can be pseudo-french
 
I'm deliberating ignoring the idea that somehow "tribal people" automatically have recognizably shared naming conventions different from non-tribal people, whoever that would be. The big difference tends to be that Europeans more often transliterate names of colonized demographics but learn the original-language names for cultures they consider more equal.
Banana being a nice example of an exception to the rule.
In English we call our motor-powered vehicles "moves-on-its-owns."
 
Also tribal is a really... Stinky word to use.... It's got an obvious 'useful' meaning but too much smelly baggage
 
So, if you're going with physical rather than situational names (like "elffruit" or "Eastfruit") what's a food that the banana fruit would remind lizardpeople of, or a plant that the palm would make them think of? And what's a key difference between them?
Put those together and you've got a very likely etymology for a new name, assuming they aren't just going to use whatever name was told them when they were first shown the fruit.
 
5:54 AM
Perhaps even relate it to something not plant related, like flatfish leaf fruit, or bone/rib fruit, if your lizard people mainly eat animals
 
There's several yellow coral mushrooms they might invoke, too.
@AncientSwordRage Maybe the texture is similar to something they eat, like the eggfruit doesn't look like an egg on the outside, or taste like one, but its flesh has the texture and color of a hard-boiled egg's yolk.
 
That's good too
 
(Compare the eggplant, which looks like an egg when immature but doesn't have any egg-like qualities when ripe)
 
 
3 hours later…
9:00 AM
@BESW the french for tomato is "love apple"? I don't know of any other words to designate tomatoes other than "tomate". The only thing that reminds me of is "pomme d'amour" which translates to "love apple", and which designates candied apples (the carnival/fair food thing)
or I missed an obvious joke x)
(good to note that while the correct name is indeed "ground apple" (pomme de terre), we also use the term "patate" more commonly, which is literally potato)
 
@Matthieu I didn't think to check last night, but it seems to be a historic (now obsolete) term:
Noun: pomme d'amour f (plural pommes d'amour)
  1. toffee apple, candy apple
  2. (obsolete) tomato
  3. Synonyms: tomate, (obsolete) pomme d'or, (obsolete) pomme dorée
 
mhh the more you know
neat
 
I didn't know that patate was used for potatoes though
My last exposure to pomme de terre was asking for a tin of boiled potatoes (which I thought might have been boix de pomme de terre) back in ~2004
This would have been somewhere near La Rochelle
 
5
Q: Pronunciation of proper names in PF2e's Mwangi Expanse

thatgirldmWhen running the "Strength of Thousands" adventure path, or just using content from the Mwangi Expanse generally, I've found myself stumped by the pronunciation of many proper names and other terms. I know they're based on real-life languages, just like "Ignaci Canterells" is Latin-ish, but despi...

 
Patate is more like an informal, slightly more familiar term. I'm pretty sure it's a proper word in the dictionnary and just about everyone uses it, but "pomme de terre" is still the "proper" way of calling it.
At least that's how it is in the south/southwest of France, can't say for other places since pretty much each place has its own accent and ways of saying things (never start the "chocolatine" vs "pain au chocolat" argument, you're in for a bad time)
In any case, you're good to go with either patate or pomme de terre just about anywhere
the "pomme d'amour" thing could make for a pretty decent conversation starter with some french people I know, now that I think about it...
 
 
2 hours later…
11:37 AM
@AncientSwordRage Not necessarily, though subclasses can give some indication of what you're going for
 
@Someone_Evil if I went Totem Warrior I'd pick mostly tiger, to get extra jump and stuff
 
How far you can jump is still limited by your speed, though I suppose Dash, jump 50 feet isn't bad
 
@Someone_Evil true! I haven't figured out exactly my (eventual) plan for combat is, but it's something like jump over the front lines onto an enemy, grapple, stab etc. Jump to the next, rinse repeat until I'm out of movement and/or attacks
So I don't think I need to use all the movement in one go
@Matthieu that's pretty fascinating
 
12:13 PM
@AncientSwordRage don't misread as pomme d'armure, which would be an "apple of [the] armor"
 
@Trish ... why did I imagine a carnival stand selling armored apples?
"Feeling more chainmail or plated today?"
 
@Trish well... Don't you misread it as pomme de mémoire, which would be Apple of memory.
 
@AncientSwordRage Is this a thing in all countries, or limited to a few? I always took the phenomenon as a granted thing in any country but it could be more specific than I thought.
I know the accent of people in the US can vary quite alot, dunno about the word usage habits though.
 
@Matthieu it certainly is, we call potatoes spuds in some regions of the UK... But I don't ever think about that
Plus I tend to think of France as Paris/not-Paris....
So any actual regional variation is interesting
 
@AncientSwordRage Well that's a pretty good way to sumarize it, since Paris is so different from the rest.
There are a bunch of places known for their regional variations. The first ones that come to mind, outside of Paris, would be Bretagne (the branch-like section that's right below the UK), the northern part (which we usually just call "the north"), the area near Germany, the part on the mediteranean coast in the southeast, the southwest and finally, the middle area. Each with very strong stereotypes and generally some strong attachment to the regional stuff.
It's not to the point of considering other regions as foreign, but it can definitely start a few fights over "you call this drink like this, not like that", or how to pronounce certain months of the year.
 
12:27 PM
Ahhh I missclicked
 
Or, you know, foods stereotypes.
I barely had time to read that message x)
To be fair I have only visited London and Cardiff in the UK, so can't really tell if the regional variations are very big or not.
 
It's like saying the UK is London/Not-London which lumps Cornwall and York together which is just wrong
 
@AncientSwordRage Not to mention Wales, Northen Ireland, and Scotland
 
@Someone_Evil exactly
England alone has I'd say, South West, Midlands, South East, and North... But even those could be meaningfully subdivided a good amount
 
Oh, are there any big food stereotypes between regions? We have a lot of those around France.
 
12:31 PM
@Matthieu You can pinpoint somebody's region of the USA by what they call sweet carbonated non-alcoholic beverages.
 
@BESW oh interesting, is there that many ways to call... The first word that comes to mind is soda?
 
The ones that come to mind are a soft drink, a Coke (regardless of actual brand or flavor), soda, or pop (or soda pop).
 
Oh right I remember hearing "soda pop" before.
@Someone_Evil Did not expect the separation to be that clearly cut between regions huh.
 
Soft drink is a bit old-fashioned, and is about differentiating the beverage from alcoholic (hard) drinks.
Most of the places I've lived have said Coke.
 
12:36 PM
@Matthieu Dialects can be distinguished from one village to the next if you know what to look for
At least that's supposedly the case in Norway
Might be harder in younger generations now
 
And it's not just regional. There's an ethnic divide to soft drinks as well, because it's America so of course there is. During the 20th century Pepsi consistently targeted non-white demographics while Coke did not.
 
Huh interesting
 
There's a lot of region/demographic language stuff, from what you call the wheeled cart you put your groceries in while shopping, to enough linguistic shift in working-class urban Black communities that African-American Vernacular English is considered a unique dialect across the country with additional regional variations.
 
I don't think there's such a divide on some specific words here, it's more of a habit thing and accent. Pronounciation for some rare cases as well.
Then again the US are such a large country and with so many different communities, I guess that makes sense
 
I'm from a USA territory where the local speech patterns have distinct Midwest elements because a lot of teachers from that part of the continent worked in elementary schools here in the mid 50s to 70s so the kids picked up linguistic traits from their teachers.
 
12:42 PM
@Matthieu probably but I'm not very well travelled
 
My time spent consuming health and nutrition content has me using the phrases "sugar sweetened beverage" and "non-nutritive sweetener sweetened beverage". Helps to reinforce in my mind that soft drinks are inconsistent with my health goals.
 
@AncientSwordRage Ever had a bap?
 
@Matthieu France has had a substantial effort to eradicate local languages and dialects IIRC
 
@BESW yup!
 
But Im from one of those yellow counties in NC and yes, everyone there says soda.
 
12:45 PM
And bun, a roll, a cob...
 
French, and Norwegian for that matter, has prescriptive language authorities unlike English, which probably accounts for an amount of the word homogeneity
 
@AncientSwordRage Ooh, what about a clanger?
Those have lots of fun names.
 
@Someone_Evil not too well-versed into this aspect of our history, but it would make sense. At the very least, nowadays, specific region dialects and other hard variations on language are nothing more than local historical activities, not actually used in everyday life.
And then there's Quebec
Their french is very similar, but the strong accent can make it a bit difficult to understand. Oh, and the fact they use certain words with very different meanings.
Unironically, I tend to understand someone from Quebec better when they speak english than french, because of the accent.
@ThomasMarkov since we use the word "soda" itself very commonly here (now that I think about it, we use quite a lot of english words in everyday life nowadays) it's the most common one here. I know there's at least one or two other, less common ways of calling those but I can't remember them.
 
1:25 PM
@ThomasMarkov kombucha has been scratching my soft drink itch
 
@NautArch hehehehe long goblin
 
@ThomasMarkov watch your language!
 
 
1 hour later…
2:40 PM
@BESW that's more a pastry than a bread bun
@ThomasMarkov I'm certain they don't have longer arms because the high jump rules say you can reach over you head some portion of your height, not arm length
So I'm guessing it's because they're the combat goblins™ they have a wider reach
@Matthieu to the bafflement of everyone my wife and I just call it fluids or fizzy drink unless we name the drink itself
 
3:05 PM
@NautArch I thought kombucha had (some) alcohol in it?
 
 
5 hours later…
7:58 PM
Next One D&D playtest pack allegedly drops tomorrow.
 
8:17 PM
5
Q: Dangerous Sorcery and persistent damage

András(inspired by this answer) Dangerous Sorcery: When you Cast a Spell from your spell slots, if the spell deals damage and doesn’t have a duration, you gain a status bonus to that spell’s damage equal to the spell’s level. Enervation for example seems to satisfy both criteria. It does not have a d...

 
9:04 PM
@ThomasMarkov something about expert classes?
 
@AncientSwordRage Yes.
 
 
3 hours later…
11:41 PM
1
Q: Are there spells which cause hidden creatures to make a sound?

FerventHippoInspired by this question about a homebrew spell, I was wondering if there are any official spells or abilities which cause either a target creature or creatures within an area to involuntarily make noise, which would help detecting them if they are hidden or invisible. Something like Faerie Fire...

 

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