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12:06 AM
@EmrysTernal Maybe check out Cthulhu Dark's escalation mechanic for inspiration. Roughly: when something stressful happens you roll, and if you get [# of times you've freaked out already] +1 or less, you roleplay a freak out. The mechanic in the game is more complex but in ways that are tuned to the kind of themes and motifs it's focused on as creeping dread fiction.
The basic concept works for everything from Aliens to Scooby Doo, though.
12:51 AM
hey there @Powerdork, how're things going?
@Powerdork awww :/ hugs
1:35 AM
@doppelgreener great meta answer the other day, btw. Reminds me of all the times I'd barf some thoughts into a chat with you and, a day later, see some great meta post explaining everything ten times better =)
2:17 AM
Appreciative of the sentiment. I'm reminded of my least favourite move in a game I'm paying attention to that's currently in public playtesting. The move is a playbook move for the Veteran (someone experienced with the magic system in question and who's been on a bizarre adventure before), called World Traveller.
> When you arrive somewhere that you’ve been before, you can ask a favor of the friends you have there and roll +GLAM. On a 10+, they’ll be able to help you out. On a 7-9, they’ll be supportive, but not able to offer any material help.
(I've been transcribing a couple episodes of the podcast where they playtest it, so I've had a lot of reason to think about this one.)
2:32 AM
Is this a PbtA game? that mechanic looks familiar
3:16 AM
[sigh] Somebody on Twitter (I'm not gonna give them clicks with a link) is stirring up trouble by posting a screenshot of the D&D 3.5 PHB about using battle grids, but deliberately mis-attributing it to 4e to complain about how 4e isn't an RPG.
The only thing I'm enjoying about this is all the people showing their whole butts by making it clear they think they know enough about 4e to have nuanced opinions but can't recognize the extremely obvious differences in trade dress between editions.
Josh Fox of Black Armada Games is calling on twitter for playtesters for Lovecraftesque 2e.
2 hours later…
5:20 AM
@KorvinStarmast Yeah, it's Eidolon: Become Your Best Self, a game attempting to model Persona and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure styled stories.
This move is from the first edition, which the creators are mostly comfortable with at this point and are moving into final draft and production of the finalized document; the Patreon feed has design episodes detailing what they're doing to make a second edition with a different resolution mechanic.
5:35 AM
@Powerdork I like this thing many PbtA games do, that you have moves that explicitly push against the conventional RPG format by allowing the players to basically establish things. "Hey, you're the Veteran, so you've got some useful contacts anywhere you've been"
Though I wish the 7-9 was a bit more verbose on the intended effect
10+ too tbh.
5:46 AM
Spotify in her great wisdom thought I would like Warren Zevon and this really gets me into the mood for games somehow
6:15 AM
@EmrysTernal I am a bit partial to the Fate way of doing things like this: Fate points and compels. A very tl;dr version of the system is that each player has a pool of Fate points they can invoke for various narrative or mechanical bonuses. They gain more points when another player (most often the GM) tries to compel them to act according to their weaknesses --- in your case, mounting stress. Points can also be spent to ignore compels.
6:26 AM
yeah, I've seen some people talking about replacing the whole social-interaction/character-arc portion of D&D's mechanics with Fate, and they liked it.
4 hours later…
10:08 AM
@BESW could do with a better name (as you've said before)
I've had a few more idea about my RPG Without A Name
@nitsua60 :D
i'm happy it's being received well
@BESW hehehehehehehehehe
the thing that gets my goat about 4e flaming is that it so often responds to things that were already in prior editions. like “wow they codified strikers, defenders, etc! how dare they! i'm gonna go over here and instead play my barbarian DPS alongside the paladin tank while the wizard does AOEs and the cleric heals us, and enjoy our non-MMO game”
or they're things that literally are not the case: “you can't cast spells outside of combat now, even flavorfully!” [casts cantrips] [casts rituals] [uses magical special features] [uses utility powers]
@doppelgreener it's pretty rad
"Combat is too complicated in 4E", The 3.5e grappling rules have entered the chat
@AncientSwordRage [everyone else surrenders]
a hilarious idea for an RPG would be where you play as RPG rulesets
@AncientSwordRage call it edition war
10:21 AM
@doppelgreener Does it have that firm a grip on you?
@Someone_Evil [scream]
@doppelgreener I've had those days
i've just remembered the time @BESW and I figured out that a horse can grapple
Is here or another room better for me going over some ideas I've had for this RPGWAN
Q: Can a horse start a grapple?

psrI know it defies suspension of disbelief, but what official rule can I show a rules lawyer player that "proves" a horse can't start a grapple? If the answer needs to distinguish between animal companions, paladin's warhorses, polymorphed player characters, etc then please cover all the cases. A...

10:23 AM
@doppelgreener grappaloosa
@doppelgreener <insert horse biting someones long hair video>
just putting this out there, you could put a horse out there with a lucha libre mask and grapple feats
@AncientSwordRage I like meta-arguments between arguments
@AncientSwordRage Sounds like it's probably on topic. What's the abbreviation for?
15 mins ago, by AncientSwordRage
I've had a few more idea about my RPG Without A Name
10:25 AM
I first read it as RPG Van, though
i'm cool for hopping in this rpg van right here in main
Revs game engine
So previously I talked about having the conflict system revolve around combatants picking 3 actions per turn
I think the way it should work is that two+(probably need rules on fighting more than two) combatants 'engage' and then determine who acts first (not decided on rolling or a static number).
It might be best explained by an example, as I haven't codified everything yet
Two combatants, a human and a minotaur 'engage'. The Human goes first, but that means they pick actions last (why will be explained shortly). The actions each combatant can choose from are categorised as Attack, Defend, Move, Control
(BRB, need to make a call)
10:43 AM
I'm back
So each combatant picks three of any of their actions, the minotaur selects Move, Attack, Attack. The Warrior sees this and picks their moves as Defend, Attack, Move.
The minotaur's exact actions are Charge (move), Gore (attack) and Trample (attack). Whereas the warrior picks Brace (defend), Stab (attack) and Disengage (move)
Each action has specific rules that go with it, but the idea is that you've bought/picked/gained the actions that you can fit together like puzzle pieces. So Charge might mean that the next Attack action you take might knock over the combatant, and the Gore move might mean that if your last action was a movement action, it does extra damage.
As for Brace, maybe it can give a bonus to damage against opponents who moved previously this turn, and break ties when determining which actions resolve first. And maybe prevents being knocked over
How action resolution works would be in order of Control, Defend, Move, Attack (similar to DWAITAS), unless specified elsewhere
so for the two combatants, Brace resolves first and gives that bonus to damage, and then Charge does, and the minotaur moves into striking range. Secondly, Gore and Stab have to resolve. Because of Brace, the warrior's action resolves first, but otherwise it would have been determined by some other stat (::shrug::)
Stab resolves, damaging the minotaur, and then .... I'm not sure if opposed actions should in some way cancel out but narratively it feels like the gore should be lessened.
Lastly, the Warrior's Disengage action resolves before the Minotaur's Trample, which would have done extra damage to a prone opponent. Instead the warrior moves away, and the Trample attack doesn't resolve as it's out of range
now I need to find a way of writing that up that isn't overly complicated
It feels very 4e-esque, with a little bit of mouse guard/burning wheel thrown in
11:02 AM
I am personally a bit wary about "defend" actions
@kviiri go on
I will read once I've acquired nachos
I don't have any particularly well-hashed thoughts about this, just that "defend", "dodge" etc are actions that are generally in the format "I spend [part of] my turn to try making nothing happen"
It feels like it puts the brakes on action instead of moving things forward
So, when I've seen Defend actions work, it's because their success changes the landscape as much as the attack's success would.
Like, defending lets you reposition, or disarm, or inflict a little damage with a quick counter, or give a bonus to the next attack against your target, etc.
(4e's "immediate interrupt" actions offer a lot of good creative examples of this.)
@kviiri I want to avoid that, but having you phrase it explicitly is helpful for me making an actual mental note of it
@BESW that's definitely the aim, I'm not sure if that what the above 'Brace' action does, but I'm trying to lean that way
11:19 AM
Off the top of my head....
> Brace (defend) When you are next attacked before the start of your next turn: if the attack hits, you take the damage but ignore any extra effects it would normally inflict; if the attack misses and is melee, you can inflict the attack's effects (but not its damage) on a nearby creature other than the attacker.
@BESW sounds good!
For example, if Gore deals damage and inflicts a condition like Grabbed, then Bracing against it will either ignore the Grabbed condition or make the Minotaur accidentally get somebody else stuck on its horn instead.
They are meant to read a little like stunts
I'm reading "Brace" to be like "I'm gonna sit here and take it, but I'll be in control of how I take it."
this is how I envisage Brace
Defend is more "I'm ready to counter attack" and the as yet unnarrated Control would be more "I'm ready to redirect"
11:28 AM
> If the next melee attack against you hits, the attacker takes damage equal to your STR plus the attacker's SPD.
@BESW yeah more like that
@kviiri Warren's pretty good at telling stories. Gorilla You're a Desperado is a favorite of mine ...
Desperado is one of my all time favourite words
@KorvinStarmast Yeah, it's a really prominent part of his work
@AncientSwordRage A long long time ago that picture depicts what was called "set versus charge"
11:39 AM
He has a lot of very narrative and evocative songs
They bring to mind a very particular feeling, a very particular event, a very particular mood.
@kviiri I once heard him described as a balladeer, and I think that's a decent descriptive - and yes, he does a nice job of evoking that mood/feeling bit.
@KorvinStarmast Apt!
@KorvinStarmast I think that rings a bell
I was only vaguely aware of his work until fairly recently, and my first impression of him was that he does military ballads in particular
(which turned out not to be true)
@KorvinStarmast Balla is Sylheti for good, so for a moment I parsed that as "Good deer"
11:42 AM
His song Jungle Work is used as an atmosphere-setting piece in the game mod The New Order if the American mercenary Mitchell WerBell manages to become the leader of a unified Russia.
His version of Russia is somewhere between United States and Outer Heaven from Metal Gear Solid.
@kviiri He's all over the map, for sure. I think his first big hit "werewolves of london" off of excitable boy, but I think a lot of my friends preferred Roland the Headless Thomson Gunner once they got the album.
@AncientSwordRage That's neat. It's also venison (good deer) 😃
@KorvinStarmast Yeah, autoplay graced me with Roland after Jungle Work
@AncientSwordRage It really paints a picture, doesn't it? There was a Spanish term I only learned from listening to the sound track of Evita (original musical) descamisados that is also an effective "picture word"
Hence the association with military :>
Yeah, but "military" is more legit while those songs seemed to focus on 'mercenary' which is less so (subtle distinction, I know)
11:47 AM
Yeah, fair point. Mercenaries.
I'm getting fairly strong Apocalypse Now vibes from Jungle Work too
One of his songs, poor pitiful me, was a huge hit for Linda Ronstadt. I think he has writer credit on it. I had only heard her version on the radio. Then one day I heard his version, and as good a singer as she is, I preferred his.
@kviiri yeah, there's that too (for some reason, I thought he was referring to mercs in Central America and sub Saharan Africa, but now I need to go look at the lyrics again)
But Apocalypse Now is not exactly about the most legit kind of war, either.
@KorvinStarmast thatsa good word to know
As legit as war can be, even
@KorvinStarmast Oh yeah, I don't mean geography in particular
I still attest that 'Cellardoor' is only "the most beautiful word in the English language" because it doesn't sound very english
11:49 AM
Just the atmosphere
@kviiri As I look at the words, it's even more merc focused. I seem to recall that around the time that came out, a whole bunch of mercs were on trial for their activities in Angola.
Q: Does Wild Companion Grant Access to Find Familiar Spell

Sozenfo the DruidBasically I'd rather hard cast it than waste the wild shape on it. Wild shape gives access to Starry form archer and chalice which are superior in every way. Both will let you become an asset in battle one way or another. However familiars can do 1 thing to make both better and that's allow touch...

Apocalypse Now is an interesting film in the sense that when I watched it I expected to see an anti-war war movie
@AncientSwordRage There was a bar in washington DC called "The Cellar Door" that was famous for hosting bands (nationally famous) in a small nightclub setting. But this goes back a few decades not sure if it even exists any more. It was just down the street from a bar called Desperados that tended to host blues and R&B acts.
@kviiri As I understand it, it was the director's / writer's take on Heart of Darkness set in Viet Nam (like doing a contemporary Julius Caesar, set in Latin Ameerica: seen that done numerous times) saw it when it came out.
@KorvinStarmast Yes. Its origins do show quite abundantly. It's not really that focused on the war itself, for a large part it's like a road movie
11:54 AM
@KorvinStarmast interesting
@kviiri Yeah, it was certainly different. Not sure if it came out before or after Deer Hunter did. Deer Hunter was emotionally draining (and long)
I've only seen the Redux version of Apocalypse Now, it was both too. More long though.
@kviiri Redux? You mean something like "the director's cut" or with stuff that was originally left on the cutting room floor?
That movie hardly needed an extended run time, it was plenty long
@KorvinStarmast Extended version. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_Now_Redux
My understanding is that Redux is generally considered to be mostly padding that'd've been better left on the cutting room floor.
@kviiri Yikes! Not sure I'd want to subject myself to that.
11:58 AM
Yeah, based on what I've heard, the original is better-paced and just .... better.
@kviiri Granted, I did enjoy the extended versions of the LoTR movies, but they too included scenes that were just as well left on the cutting room floor. I only saw them on CD, at home, where I can hit pause ....
@KorvinStarmast I think LotR did at least better in the sense that the only sex scenes weren't extended edition additions
@kviiri sex scenes in LoTR? (Not recalling any)
@KorvinStarmast Na, this was another jab at Redux ;)
@kviiri chuckle ya got me
12:03 PM
One of my favorite parts of the LotR novels is one that made it to no film: how Frodo et co, after saving the world, return to the Shire and have to do one last adventure to kick out some bandit warlords who have set up shop there.
@kviiri yes, a lot of fans were disappointed in the lack of "scouring of the shire" scenes - the extended good by scenes had my son (a teenager at the time) asking me during the end of RotK "so, Dad, is the movie over yet?"
I felt similarly. But they'd already killed off Saruman earlier in the film ...
It's been a very long time since I last read the LotR books but the Scouring had some really nice memories to me because it extended the denouement a fair bit, it showed in concrete terms how half a year of waging guerilla war against almost-literal Satan has hardened our heroes, and it gave Saruman a nice send-off that somehow reminds me of the works of Dante Alighieri
Him having been lowered from the wise, powerful and cunning wizard lord to a mere thuggish warlord, who then gets offed by his miserable toady.
@kviiri bravo yes, and it allowed Frodo to show mercy to an enemy.
Yea. Plays into the usual good themes of evil destroying itself
12:35 PM
@BESW I'll have to look later
1:07 PM
@BESW I can't imagine how much those racks cost him
1:22 PM
I feel the sudden urge to run a campaign in some random fantasy RPG and then have the PCs confronted with a town that is has not been successfully integrated in any empire since about 600 years, despite being invaded repeatedly...
@AncientSwordRage Sam Battle (formerly of Zibra, now of LOOK MUM NO COMPUTER and the Museum Of Everything Else) is one of my most-listened-to artists of last year.
@G.Moylan His youtube channels are full of him cobbling together equipment from old parts he got cheap off ebay and out of boot sales.
@Trish Magic potion involved?
@kviiri Nah, just the power of laissez faire capitalism!
in other words: I want to have my players encounter Hypercapitalism Ankh Morpork
2:02 PM
@Trish Switzerland?
@KorvinStarmast I've written a first draft of a repeal proposal, would you like me to add you to the googledoc?
2:18 PM
@Powerdork Huh, yeah, that's a bit weak tea. I can kind of see it adapted from the Urban Shadows move of a similar archetype. Does this game have a mechanized social web like MH Strings/US Debts?
@BESW I don't listen to much if any music these days
"On a hit they're happy to offer you a safe place and whatever help they can, on a 7-9 something's left unsettled from last time you were here; tell the GM what. On a 6- definitely tell the GM what, because it's festered."
@KorvinStarmast H street area?
Nevermind. Apparently it was in georgetown. It sounded fun so I assumed H street.
@KorvinStarmast Nah, Terry's Ankh Morportk. It's the perfect defense against Invasions: Let them come! 2 days later they are just poor and in 2 weeks they are just another minority!
@Trish we own you wholesale?
2:33 PM
@AncientSwordRage Just read some of the Watch books :P
@ThomasMarkov yes please
@GcL Yes, Georgetown, Wisconsin ave area.
@KorvinStarmast let me know if you got that.
Idea generation moment: cast summon celestial get a unicorn, then create a simulacrum of the unicorn, let the actual unicorn return to being a celestial under normal tasking, and then hire the simulacrum out to various horse breeders for (exorbitant) stud fees. What could possibly go wrong?
@KorvinStarmast I had a similar idea about using a 10 Bard/10 Chronurgy Wizard to use Arcane Abeyance to make motes of find greater steed to sell.
@ThomasMarkov got it, reviewing
2:42 PM
@KorvinStarmast You could skip a step and just sell the... active ingredient separately. Brand name: Simulacrum
(I had a play on words there, but chickened out as this is a family chat room)
@Upper_Case yeah, I too restrained myself
@ThomasMarkov new meta or a revision of an old one?
@KorvinStarmast Some of it was adapted from my 5e meta answer.
But we can still call them "Simunicorns"
@ThomasMarkov I'd add a link to the old "are we experts here" that I have cited a number of times in various metas. I'll go and grab that link.
@ThomasMarkov sending back what my few suggestion are, bold text is suggested inclusion.
@BESW Ah, the good ol' Furby organ, giving us mortals a preview of the sounds of the underworld
2:55 PM
@KorvinStarmast looks good
@MikeQ I once tossed my furby out a second story window during a rainstorm becuse it wouldn't shut up, and when I went outside the next morning, it was just chillin in my front yard, still talking.
@ThomasMarkov aha, I see that you were active in the doc while I was muddling about. Technology, ain't it great? 😁
@KorvinStarmast I was watching your edits live lol
@ThomasMarkov Darn, we missed a chance to sell ad space to the exciting event of real time editing. Profits never realized. Drat!
3:25 PM
@ThomasMarkov indestructotech!
4:05 PM
@doppelgreener Send me a boop when youre around, Ive got a draft for you to read.
4:46 PM
Does this look like a good dupe closure?
@ThomasMarkov Looks good to me
Seems like OP agrees
5:23 PM
@Trish I'm pretty sure I've read all of them, but it's been a while
6:15 PM
@Glazius Not so much. Instead, PCs have ties, which sit at a rating of +1, +2, or +3 to the roll to help or hinder someone (which is used to adjust the rolls of PCs, so being friendly with an NPC doesn't have a mechanical benefit, only narrative). This is something the creators have been looking for a solution for during some design sessions.
@Glazius When a move indicates what happens on a miss, it's usually pretty narrow, and doesn't leave room for interesting things like "Okay, they try to help you, but here's how they do it, misguidedly..." or similar.
@Powerdork Yeah, a social currency like Strings can help there; the equivalent move in Urban Shadows gives the Veteran's hello-again-old-friend a Debt to call in on them on a 7-9.
@Powerdork You mean, in the playtest, or...?
It's a little tough to run the consequences of moves that set up bad things in the future - like, if the GM has a marker to call in on their help backfiring, there's a temptation as a player to just ditch whatever form that help took and go it alone.
6:34 PM
lol just reading the question about sorcereś blood dragon blood
I read it as can a vampire get high from drinking a draconic ancestry sorcerers blood?
6:51 PM
Q: What is the Aasimar Trait?

ruediI make my first PF2e character and choose an Aasimar Heritage. Now they write in the description: You gain the aasimar trait, in addition to the traits from your ancestry. But I cannot find an Aasimar Trait anywhere. Could anyone help me where to find it?

@Glazius I mean in the proposed move you wrote. Fixed forms of consequences on a miss reduce the scope of what consequences for a miss can look like in a way that can be... stifling?
7:46 PM
@Powerdork Admittedly I'm writing totally without a concept of the system they're playtesting, but one of the things I associate with "the veteran" is that both their old friends and their old trouble can be interesting to explore.
The miss from the Urban Shadows move is "tell the GM why they want you dead", but that doesn't actually prompt the GM to do anything specific with it.
Q: Do Psychic Strike and Greater Psionic Shot work with Manyshot?

Kevin GoonCan Manyshot work to allow you to apply Psychic Strike and Greater Psionic shot to all the arrows?

could someone check my work on this edit?
8:01 PM
@doppelgreener Seems fine.
@ThomasMarkov o/ i'm a little busy this evening, but i can check it out tomorrow
1 hour later…
9:15 PM
@BESW MAID's Combat system is super fast and easy! Also, Conan has a very cool and cinematic combat system that functions without people caring for initiative: all Players act in any order they want, then the GM acts with all the monsters.
10:11 PM
Can we rebrand to Crab Chat? We are a crab chat, aren't we?
10:21 PM
Though I feel the need to ask; is crab chat a specific term?
It references Crab Clan. Because Crabs are pragmatic. And stubborn. And they man The Wall
disavows that it also is close to homophone to dirt
All chats do eventually evolve into crab chats. It is known.
@Glazius Unless they are Scorpion Chats. Scorpion chats never change.
10:55 PM
Morning all
My coworker is slurping his coffee so loudly it sounds like he's blowing bubbles
11:09 PM
We do our best to keep the main chat free of hobby shibboleths, especially franchise-specific ones. Turning the chat into an in-joke makes it unwelcoming, and also just makes it hard for people to find--cf all the rooms like "The Factory Floor" and "The Restaurant At The End of the Universe" and "The Bridge" that are almost impossible for people to identify as the main chat room for a Stack topic unless they're already intimately familiar with a specific genre or work in that topic.
@Ben Make him Laugh. He becomes an airbrush!
@BESW Sidebar on Legal. Because Bar-exam.
The Stack may carcinize, but we won't be the first to go.
11:28 PM
Nate Treme of Highland Paranormal Society wrote a short twitter thread on his observations after pricing a game more than three times as much as his previous games.
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, bad keyword with email in answer, email in answer, pattern-matching email in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer (350): Can one use Witch Bolt to prevent spell casting? by Tracy Jones on rpg.SE (@Rubiksmoose @ThomasMarkov)
11:39 PM
WotC has a "help shape the future of D&D" online survey and aside from being bugged so hard that it's unusable for many, before you get to answer its questions you have to go through a gauntlet of "Oh, you play D&D? Name all the classes" type questions. [face/palm]
@BESW Oh, you’re good at math? Name every fraction.
Like, literally one of the questions is "which of the following is NOT a character class?"
I feel like they got all the wrong lessons from the D&D Next playtesting debacle.
Q: Could sorcerer's blood double as dragon's blood?

MaxoholicConsidering Introduced into Sharn by Daask, dragon's blood is a potent and highly addictive stimulant. In addition to inducing euphoria, it can enhance spellcasting ability or even temporarily imbue a user with the ability to cast sorcerer spells. The drug's effects are potentially dangerous and...

(And no, it's not "to screen out bots" because you can get them all wrong and still be taken to the main survey.)

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