TRPG General Chat

4:00 PM

I roll persuasion to haggle :p

@RevanantBacon seems really overpriced either way. but the rooms come with free dice and all the figures you'll need. but they better still be their when you leave. otherwise you have to pay the price of a whole box/pack for 1 little piece

Thomas Markov

Sorry @NautArch but no D&D game is worth $1200.

doppelgreener

@Catofdoom2 That's fantastic! I love those days

@ThomasMarkov What if it's gold leaf?

Thomas Markov

I would chip in to rent the room if @NautArch would DM wearing only gold foil.

Cat of doom2

4:16 PM

@NautArch what @ThomasMarkov said ^^^^

NautArch

@ThomasMarkov challenge accepted?

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov Hmm, I suspect that some of the critical role episodes cost quite a bit more than that. 😛

G. Moylan

inb4 NFTs of Critical Role

KorvinStarmast

@ThomasMarkov Trying to figure out how casting Heroes Feast via scroll works. Do I spend the hour and the material component while preparing the scroll, or, do I hold the MC and it takes an hour to cast while using the scroll. Arrgh, need to go back to DMG scroll rules again... we don't have a Q&A on that surprisingly

G. Moylan

@ThomasMarkov let me know if I need to adjust anything on that answer. I'm confident I'm correct, I'm just not 100% that I'm not missing something that backs me up more

NautArch

4:28 PM

@KorvinStarmast Which scroll creation rules are you using?

KorvinStarmast

DMG rules. Spell Scroll

A spell scroll bears the words of a single spell, written in a mystical cipher. If the spell is on your class’s spell list, you can read the scroll and cast its spell without providing any material components. Otherwise, the scroll is unintelligible. Casting the spell by reading the scroll requires the spell’s normal casting time.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Do you have the scroll or are you making the scroll?

KorvinStarmast

I am going to make the scroll

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Using Xanathar's rules?

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch I think that to make the scroll I need to provide the MC to make the scroll but I am not finding it ... and phone is slow

DMG rules

Our party took down a lich and we ended up with a boat load of cash. I want to make some scrolls of Heroes Feast, easier to carry than super expensive bowls

NautArch

4:34 PM

@KorvinStarmast And you're a cleric/druid/bard, yes?

What level are you?

You'll need to be one of those classes, 11th level and have 50k in gold.

KorvinStarmast

4:46 PM

@NautArch Bard, 11. Why 50K? The bowl costs 1000

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Those are the DMG crafting rules.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch (Wait, DM has costs for scrolls from Xanathar's)

So I need 25K?

NautArch

a 6th level spell scroll is a Very Rare spell scroll. Very Rare spell scrolls cost 50k.

And you do need to be one of those classes in order to make it.

@KorvinStarmast Wait, so using costs from Xanathar's, but DMG rules?

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Yeah, we each got about 80K, so unless the cost is per xanathar's, I can only make 1. Got it. I'll re check with DM. (Hm slow scrolls were via xanathar's, I may be misunderstanding the guidance from him ...)

Oh, crap, I may not have the down time to do this. Maybe I need to buy bowls.

G. Moylan

@KorvinStarmast You can always wear one on your head to save space

KorvinStarmast

4:49 PM

@G.Moylan And be the life of the party 😄😄😃

G. Moylan

@KorvinStarmast and feed everybody later

sptrashcan

I have a procedural question. Is it considered acceptable to re-raise a question that has been asked and answered, and if so, how?

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch We are going to be facing a spell casting ancient black dragon, not sure how soon, but I want my compadres to be immune to fear or we are gonna get wiped

NautArch

@sptrashcan It is not - the right thing to do there is to bounty the question and specify what you're looking for.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch and we have no cleric.

sptrashcan

4:52 PM

So to be clear I didn't mean "ask the same question again", I meant "return this question to active consideration". If a bounty does that, then that's what I'm looking for.

Someone_Evil

Ah, yes. Bounties are the way to go for that

KorvinStarmast

@sptrashcan Bounty is a nice tool. Best of luck.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Are you a bard or druid there?

AncientSwordRage

@sptrashcan what do you need bountying?

sptrashcan

5

Q: Does removing the bonus action requirement of two weapon fighting make it unbalanced?

I've been toying with various approaches to making Two-Weapon Fighting interact better with other class features that use a bonus action. I am considering removing the bonus action requirement of Two-Weapon Fighting, either outright or as an addition to the Dual Wielder Feat. The additional attac...

I'm preparing a bounty now. I was thinking about the benefits of the exact adjustment proposed here, and the only answer raises theoretical concerns about the action economy. I'd like to see if anyone has actually tried it, or at least one that uses what we've learned about 5e in the four years since the question was first asked.

Thomas Markov

4:59 PM

I dont even understand the question

\What is meant by "removing the bonus action requirement"?

AncientSwordRage

@sptrashcan that's a really great idea, be sure to make that explicit

sptrashcan

Yes, my bounty message is essentially what I just said.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov your extra attack doesn't use up a bonus action, surely?

Thomas Markov

Does it mean the TWF attack just happens without an action economy cost?

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov yes

Thomas Markov

5:00 PM

Okay

AncientSwordRage

still once a round I presume

Thomas Markov

I big agree with Dale's answer there.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov I think so too, but getting someone to answer who has tried it is not a bad idea

sptrashcan

I think I need a more compelling argument against it than "it would be a buff to monks and melee rogues".

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch bard 11

Thomas Markov

5:04 PM

@sptrashcan Maybe it's a tough one to prove, but the first part of Dale's answer is the heart of the issue. Action economy is often the single biggest factor in determining loss or victory in a fight.

AncientSwordRage

@ThomasMarkov but this is unfun:

Barbarian's Frenzy (and many other features) are not designed to be used in tandem with TWF. Just because a character build is possible (such as a Barbarian with both Frenzy and TWF) does not mean it is viable or optimal. The fact that TWF is rendered mostly useless in some builds does not mean TWF is broken: it means that some builds should eschew TWF. Dale is very thorough with his explanation of how your house rule would effect the action economy. It would seriously change the balance of the game, and not in a uniform way for all characters. — Bloodcinder Jan 3 '17 at 2:53

sptrashcan

@ThomasMarkov I don't disagree with that. I just would like to see an actual example of a super-busted thing you can do because you can TWF and still have a bonus action.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast And you picked it as a magical secret?

Someone_Evil

If you find a fix to two-weapon fighting like this, please also make sure it works for (animal) companions. Thanks!

NautArch

@sptrashcan At the end of day, you'd be getting a 'free' attack on top of your others. For an extra attacker, that's solid, for a single attacker, that's huge because they have another chance at no cost.

Thomas Markov

5:07 PM

@sptrashcan I think the point is that a free attack with no strings attached is super busted, which I would agree with.

sptrashcan

I don't agree that TWF is "no strings attached".

Thomas Markov

It is if you cut the strings off lol

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch No, it is on the Bard spell list. (hmm, maybe added by Tasha's?)

G. Moylan

@sptrashcan Anyone can do it, and removing the cost makes it free. What strings are left?

sptrashcan

You have a weapon in both hands. That means no shield, no heavy weapon, no ranged weapon, and no casting without War Caster.

G. Moylan

5:09 PM

@sptrashcan That's not a new problem

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast I don't think so...

Thomas Markov

You can draw a weapon as part of an attack.

G. Moylan

also this ^^

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Huh, it came up in my roll20 search, now I am confused.

NautArch

And the drop dance to cast is a non-issue when holding two items.

@KorvinStarmast don't trust roll20.

KorvinStarmast

5:11 PM

@NautArch Yikes, looks like I need to discuss with the party. May have to go with Mass Suggestion.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Or hire a caster?

Find a druid/cleric to cast it for you?

Why not heroism @KorvinStarmast?

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch are you sure Tasha's didn't add it to the bard list? It added slow ...

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Yeah, i just checked.

KorvinStarmast

thx, book's at home

sptrashcan

I'm just really racking my brain for an example of a class that wants to take the Attack action on most turns for whom this grants more than a shot at an extra 1d6 damage per turn. Melee rogue is the only example given, it's the only one I could think of myself, and frankly the example given is silly because barring extraordinary circumstances you're not going to be able to hide in melee range.

MikeQ

5:18 PM

Raging barbarian? Hexblade warlock with hex?

I think the intended balance is that 1 Action is worth a certain number of attack rolls. Getting extra would require a character to spend some sort of action economy. Bonus action makes the most sense.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch wow, I need to tell Roll20 that they messed up. Says right there "Classes, Bard, Cleric, Druid" - that's not right, it seems.

G. Moylan

@sptrashcan Paladin with smites. Oh I missed? SWING AGAIN!!

MikeQ

If the issue is that you feel the extra damage isn't worth the bonus action, then maybe increase the damage, rather than messing with the action economy? Previous editions had stuff where secondary attacks added half-modifiers to damage.

AncientSwordRage

There's an argument that spending a feat is the cost that justifies the extra attack

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast This is a big reason why I dislike roll20 citations. THey've done this more than once.

sptrashcan

5:31 PM

Well, the bounty's up. I'm really hoping for an answer along the lines of "we did this, it was fine/terrible".

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Yeah, annoying.

@sptrashcan We did this, our paladin gets a bonus action attack with shield (1d4, improvised weapon); often smites with it. I will have to ask DM if he thinks it is terrible or not.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast I was working on a shield master/basher build with my DM as well (before he died on a critical fumble.)

G. Moylan

@NautArch I once wanted to build a character like this with two large shields, that could protect his buddies but also punch people with a shield. I couldn't figure out a great way to amke it work at the time, but that was years ago

@G.Moylan he was a Warforged named Bulwark. I might try to revisit him sometime

AncientSwordRage

6:01 PM

@G.Moylan good name

GcL

@G.Moylan protection class feature of a fighter? impose disadvantage on an adjacent attack and provide half cover for the character behind you, no?

G. Moylan

@GcL I went Protection Battlemaster, yeah. I can only do that with my reaction, though, and I'm unsure it grants you cover

GcL

6:18 PM

@G.Moylan I thought shooting through foes granted cover to the back row.

G. Moylan

@GcL Oh I thought you meant through the ability. My bad

GcL

3.5 had different types of shields. I don't think 5e does though. Probably could reskin a club or mace as the second shield. Imagining wielding a buckler and larger round shield.

Trish

7:12 PM

@GcL 2-shield fighting? I know of not a single case where an army would send in soldiers with shields in both hands.

GcL

@Trish The case here is the player wants to, and it's not a tough thing to reskin using existing weapons and mechanics.

One of the shields is a "shield" in name and description only since it would be mechanically superfluous. Functionally, treat it like a mace or club. The other, narrated as larger, shield is the mechanical shield. Shield master feat and protector fighter class feature pretty much cover a lot of what is desired.

RevanantBacon

@Trish D&D is not a Real Life™ simulator

Trish

@GcL hmmm,... using two tower shields, I'd allow it under two conditions a) He can't move more than half his movement rate or needs to drop one of the shields. b) the ones benefiting from his shield-bulwark need either to hunker down or go prone.

@RevanantBacon I know, I just said that this is not a valid tactic on military scale.

GcL

@Trish tower shields and pavises aren't a thing in 5e. It's just shield.

@Trish Anything short of a dragon is a poor plan on a military scale. If you have dragons, dragon.

RevanantBacon

@Trish Well, it's a good thing that it's a party of 3-7 adventurers and not a 30-man military platoon

GcL

7:16 PM

If you don't have dragons, get dragons.

2

NautArch

@GcL but +2 AC isn't mechanically superfluous :)

Trish

@GcL that's another strike against the game. Tower shields, pavaises and the Hoplon handle entirely different from any other type of shield!

RevanantBacon

@GcL Sound tactical advice

GcL

@NautArch The second shield is mechanically superfluous. You can't benefit from more than one shield at a time.

RevanantBacon

@NautArch You can't benefit from two effects with the same name

Trish

7:17 PM

@GcL If you can't get a Dragon, mail-order a demon

NautArch

@Trish Please see the pinned notice. We understand that you don't like D&D, you don't have to keep saying it.

@GcL ah, was thinking sword and board and skinning the shield. ne'er mind!

Cat of doom2

yooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Carcer

to be honest I'd let someone use two shields if they wanted

GcL

@Trish Play 3.5 if you want a D&D that made those delineation. I'll wait the three weeks it takes to get through the first combat. /S

Cat of doom2

helllllllloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

RevanantBacon

7:18 PM

I just really don't understand why they hate 5e so much

GcL

@Carcer I'd give bonus points if they were using them as sleds roaming around the arctic wilderness challenging creatures to sledding contests.

Cat of doom2

hi?

can nobody see me?

RevanantBacon

@Catofdoom2 low

@Catofdoom2 dude, chill

Trish

@GcL Nah, I play TDE and the combat with a full formation of tower shielded guards takes about 3 hours.

GcL

@Trish but how about when they're flat footed or as the target of a ranged-melee-touch effect?

Cat of doom2

7:20 PM

@NautArch yooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

GcL

@Catofdoom2 Are you making noise just to make noise?

NautArch

@Catofdoom2 Please don't come in and ping folks unless there is a specific need.

Cat of doom2

i wanted to talk to you

NautArch

What's up?

bobble

If there's already a conversation going, and you jump in with something not related, you're not guaranteed to get a response.

Someone_Evil

7:21 PM

Can I suggest limiting oneself to at least a reasonable number of letters?

Cat of doom2

@bobble that's not very nice

@Someone_Evil okay, lol

bobble

I... was just trying to explain what was happening? Not sure how it's not nice. Leaving.

Cat of doom2

okay, @NautArch i wanted to tell you that I have discovered something amzing

Trish

@GcL Both these don't exist in TDE: the closest is surprise, which handles entirely different, and there are no ranged-melee-touch effects at all. Magic auto-targets anyway within range, and it would take a group of trained spellcasters that is above ther average population density of any magically gifted in aventuria to try and destroy a unit of 50 soldiers in formation. The expected ratio of magically gifted is about 1 per 500. So a single mage per 10 units would be expected.

G. Moylan

I'm trying to suss out what TDE stands for and I'm coming up short

Someone_Evil

7:25 PM

The Dark Eye, IIRC

Trish

@G.Moylan The Dark Eye. Aka "Das Schwarze Auge". German game

GcL

@Trish That's another strike against the game. Those mechanics really do behave differently from one another. /S

NautArch

@Catofdoom2 I like amazing, do tell!

G. Moylan

@bobble I agree. I think @Catofdoom2 is just excited, and I'm sure they didn't mean offense

Cat of doom2

i found that you can submit ideas, such as fanmade campaigns or monsters, and they will consider them for the next edition. @NautArch

RevanantBacon

7:27 PM

@Trish I would assume that the ratio of mages to non-mages in an army would be higher than, since it would be tactically prudent to put extra effort into recruiting/conscripting mages.

Trish

@GcL Great Shields handling exactly the same as a buckler is something that is not feasible in the slightest, a great shield should at least grant a higher armor bonus than a buckler.

NautArch

@Catofdoom2 Outsourcing their content development, eh?

GcL

@Trish Well yeah, but what about being caught flat footed or 3/4 flanked while in partial cover by the shields?

Trish

@RevanantBacon actually, I can look you up the numbers of mages involved in the battle against the Ork invasion...

Cat of doom2

@NautArch what do you mean? i'm sorry, I don't understand what you're saying

NautArch

7:29 PM

@Catofdoom2 WoTC already puts a lot on DMs for running the game - now they're putting content creation on the community, too? :D

Trish

@GcL BEing surrounded is handled by granting boni to attackers in TDE.

G. Moylan

@Catofdoom2 @NautArch is making a joke calling WotC lazy

NautArch

Mostly being snarky about the neat idea that you can submit stuff. Of course they don't mind submissions, it's free content ideas :P

GcL

@Trish But what about 75% surrounded and having your momentum going in the wrong direction from the opening?

NautArch

It is cool that you can, but I'm also guessing fine print is they own those ideas.

G. Moylan

7:30 PM

@NautArch probably. I think they did that with the Oblex, IIRC

Cat of doom2

@NautArch I didn't think it was that I just thought It was a sharing thing. but i suppose you might be right

NautArch

@Catofdoom2 DMs Guild is kinda the sharing thing.

Cat of doom2

@NautArch but yes you won't get credited and it is probably they're idea by fine print

RevanantBacon

@Catofdoom2 You're talking about a world-known intellectual property owned by a major corporation, there's no way they would let others retain the rights to content they submit, as it could be considered erosion of the intellectual property.

They might be required to credit the person that submits the idea, but odds are they won't even have to put that much in.

G. Moylan

@RevanantBacon Probably a nod in the publisher page, if anything

Cat of doom2

7:35 PM

@NautArch but what if you're idea gets added to the 6th edition? @RevanantBacon even if you don't get the proper credit you can also be like "i did" or maybe i should insert the "i made that boy" meme

RevanantBacon

@G.Moylan Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Probably won't even send you an email to let you know that they liked your submission lol

NautArch

@RevanantBacon nah, my guess is that they're saying anything submitted is theirs.

Trish

@RevanantBacon 15000 orks, 4 shamans, 1 high shaman, 1 wayward mage on the one side. The Humans had... no mage in orkenwall but lost 2500 men, 10000 men on the Silkwiesen on 3 mages (losses: some 3000 dead or wounded), 3 Mages were sent to assist defending Greifenfurt, which was held by about 5000 citizens and soldiers at that point. Then the army of about 30000 to finally liberate the town, with had about 20 mages. Nope, the number of combat ready magicans in the armies is extremely low in Aventuria

NautArch

We've done that at my company with design submissions.

Trish

@GcL what are you probing for?

Cat of doom2

7:36 PM

i'm very confused

RevanantBacon

@Trish Well, that's a failing of the military strategists IMO. If it were me, I'd be trying to recruit every mage I could get my hands on.

G. Moylan

@RevanantBacon maybe that was every mage they could get their hands on

GcL

@Trish Well, if you've got a unit of troops they have some amount of momentum and coverage their movement, armor, and tactics provide. Being completely surrounded is different from being converged upon, is different from being converged upon and running headlong into it. Really, it's a strike against any game that doesn't recognize these are very different situations. /S

Trish

@RevanantBacon there just aren't that many mages at all and mages can't legally be conscripted. They are not under the law of the kingdoms but just the guilds.

Cat of doom2

@NautArch can you please look at my creatures?

GcL

7:38 PM

Dragons can conscript anyone not a dragon. it's like a dragon having you as a pet.

NautArch

@Catofdoom2 Sure, I"ll take a look. Homebrew isn't my forte, but happy to put eyes on them.

kviiri

@Catofdoom2 Probably depends on the fine print on wherever you submit your content

Trish

@GcL A formation that has the formation fighting trait (something any formation fighting unit with large shields or polearms provides) allows the whole unit to a) use their defense acton to defent any of the people next to them. b) makes attacks from the sides to all but the outer edges of the formation impossible under the TDE 4.1 Rules.

Cat of doom2

@NautArch lemme get everything together

G. Moylan

I think I would mess with them by submitting really rough crayon drawings of creatures labeled "monstur"

RevanantBacon

7:40 PM

If mages are born at a rate of 1 in 500, then an army of 10K soldiers could expect about 20 mages. An army of 15K should have had around 30.

but they had 3 and 5 respectively

GcL

@NautArch I wonder if by submitting, you're granting the right for them to use the work. I don't know if they can assert ownership, but I don't want to email the IP department of general consul in order to find out. They have a habit of scheduling multi-hour long zoom calls to answer questions like that.

Thomas Markov

@GcL You probably agree to a license upon submission.

Hot RPG Questions

5

Q: Are there ways to improve items?

What happens often at my D&D 5e tables (both as a DM and a player) is that somebody finds a better weapon and just drops the previous one. For instance, one might have a Longsword, +1 and then finds a Flame Tongue Longsword. The character would simply drop the Longsword, +1 to use the Flame Tongu...

dnd-5e magic-items crafting

GcL

@Trish That totally eschews the plumbata! Ridiculous! The rules of this game don't even go over as well as a lead balloo... dart. /S

RevanantBacon

@ThomasMarkov "By submitting your ideas on the attached form, you hereby ascent to the complete and utter revoking of ownership status to WotC"

NautArch

7:43 PM

@RevanantBacon Asmodeus and/or Jeremy Crawford may contact you.

RevanantBacon

@NautArch "One of our representatives will be on the line shortly, please hold"

XD

Cat of doom2

@NautArch gimme a second

Thomas Markov

@RevanantBacon I dont think that would be an enforceable contract.

RevanantBacon

@ThomasMarkov I dunno, I don't know anything about contract law.

Thomas Markov

me neither

NautArch

7:45 PM

Yeah, ;pretty sure they can. Here is one from Nike: s3.nikecdn.com/events-platform/pre-prod/NET_Admin/faq/…

Trish

@RevanantBacon no, magic capable. Not mages. Of those magic capables, 3 out of 4 are never discovered: 2 just gain a minor magical trait like luck or a magical craftiness. 1 burns out his magic talent as he becomes a smith or soldier (as iron blocks magic). The last 1 per 2000 has a chance of about 70% to learn a "half mage" profession like alchemist. 25% become actual guild mages, the other 5% fill the pool for druids, witches and other non mage full casters. That is about one Guild Mage per 8k.

GcL

@RevanantBacon I concur. I reserve that space for more important things like cat memes.

RevanantBacon

@Trish When I say "mage" I mean literally anyone who can do any kind of magic, not just people who are part of some guild.

Trish

@RevanantBacon that's the 30% group. all the others don't gain any combat capable spells.

@RevanantBacon the background of aventuria just does not permit to draft mages and in generally, magic but for alchemical products plays almost no weight in Aventurian warfare.

MikeQ

They're only mages if they come from the Mage region of the forgotten realms, otherwise you'd call them "sparkling magic users".

Someone_Evil

7:51 PM

It's spelled: Magé

Cat of doom2

@NautArch sorry, i just want it to be perfect

NautArch

@Catofdoom2 Newsflash: The first time you show it to someone it ain't gonna be perfect - that's why you're looking for editors.

Trish

@RevanantBacon There are reasons for that. a) of those 20 expected magic capables only about 1.5 actually will become full casters. They technically had overrepresented mages against the total population. And those were combat capable war mages, a rather rare sub-group actually.

Cat of doom2

thoughts so far?

NautArch

WHat CR is this supposed to be?

Cat of doom2

8:01 PM

@NautArch CR? what do you mean?

NautArch

Challenge rating

How tough is this thing supposed to be?

What level party do you see it fighting?

But my first concern is the massive HP pool plus regen.

Cat of doom2

@NautArch not sure yet but defintly not easy

NautArch

That can take the fight into a slog.

Cat of doom2

so less health?

NautArch

I'm not experienced with a lot of homebrew design, but I'm fairly sure that you want to go in with an idea first, not monster first.

That way you've got something to build toward.

MikeQ

8:03 PM

What are you trying to design?

Cat of doom2

@NautArch i want it to be high dragon level

its supposed to be a boss

Trish

@Catofdoom2 it regenerates on average 13 HP a round. That's a lot! Killing that takes... uh...

lemme run the numbers

MikeQ

It takes a lot of time. That's one very very long combat. Not even difficult, just a slow process of grinding down its HP.

kviiri

@MikeQ Do you know what's the main line of defence France has against wizards

NautArch

@kviiri The Magey-No! Line?

RevanantBacon

8:04 PM

There's also the fact that any given army should be *less than 1%* of the entire population of a kingdom, else the kingdom would turn bankrupt. So with a force of 10K soldiers, you'd expect to see a kingdom of at *least* 1,000,000 persons. Assuming that that number is anywhere near accurate, and the population isn't actually even higher, we're looking at 2,000 "magic capable" persons.

Now, 3/4 are gone off the top as undiscovered/only minor traits/blocked from magic for being near iron (dubious that that many would have that happen due to the low numbers of smiths and soldiers needed for t…

If the army recruiters are not going out of their way to recruit extra of these mages, that is a tactically unsounds decision

kviiri

Mar 13 '18 at 20:08, by kviiri

@SPavel The French defense against Nazi wizards - Magi-Not line.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Uh, I just went to D&D beyond, they have Heroes Feast as a Tasha's added spell also. Now I am confused

kviiri

turns out I have made this joke here before

:-D

Cat of doom2

@NautArch is it to difficult or to easy for a high-level group?

MikeQ

@Catofdoom2 Hard to say, I don't see any attacks or abilities. Just HP and regeneration. It seems difficult to kill, but there's not enough info to say whether it's difficult to survive.

Cat of doom2

8:07 PM

@MikeQ i'm working on it.

MikeQ

@Catofdoom2 Most creatures in D&D have a Challenge Rating, which roughly (very roughly) measure how difficult they are to survive and/or overcome.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast And you are correct. I was looking on the wrong page. Although they don't list as an option in the spell, just Tasha's.

So I guess they haven't added those optional options into the main.

Cat of doom2

i'll finsh it tomarrow

NautArch

Mea Culpa Roll20 @KorvinStarmast :P

Trish

@RevanantBacon They are banned by law from trying to recruit magicans because the magican guilds have that privilege.

@RevanantBacon it actually makes sense in context. The mages are pretty much abve mundane laws

RevanantBacon

8:09 PM

@Trish Then that sounds like poor planning by the king/prime minister/whatever noble was in charge of writing up that law.

NautArch

@Trish What about sorcerers/hedge mages?

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch No worries, all that means is that you are practicing how it is to be as old as me and forget stuff. 🤣

GcL

@MikeQ The CR is an approximation of the mean distribution of how F'd one or the other would be if the foe and party get tossed together unexpectedly and essentially at random.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast yeah, practicing. That's the ticket.

RevanantBacon

@NautArch That would, I assume, be the 5% that become druids/witches/ect.

Which accounts for another 25 persons to attempt to recruit

Trish

8:11 PM

@RevanantBacon it's the result of the magicans having run the empire for about 100 years before the church ran it, for 150 years and tried to eradicate all magic. The peace struck when the emperor got into power was "Magicans are OFF LIMITS"

GcL

Given plot foreshadowing, some zany plan, and the side quests to get the stuff for said plan... most any CR can lead to a fun story of how the players sorted it out and got it done.

RevanantBacon

@Trish does this church have some sort of ability to not be affected by magic? because if they don;t, that actually makes it make less sense

Trish

@Catofdoom2 Taking 4 people armed with longswords (1d8 damage) that hit every single time... that's 18 damage per turn, 13 get healed for 5 retained. 64 turns average.

NautArch

@Trish That is an unlikely calculation for the level at which a PC would fight this. :You're also ignoring the modifiers which are much more impactful than the die.

Trish

@RevanantBacon yes, they have. It was the church of the magic-hating sun god Praios. They also tried to destroy their sister church (the one of the battle-goddes) in the same time...

RevanantBacon

8:14 PM

@Trish Oof, fighting two wars at once. Also a poor tactical choice

Trish

@RevanantBacon The last census I know is 1 759 000 human citizens.

@RevanantBacon yes, neither war was particularly vigorously, but it lead to the 3 guilds of mages gaining that guild-privilege.

GcL

@RevanantBacon As poor as a land war in Asia? Maybe slightly less well know like matching wits with a Sicilian when death is on the line?

RevanantBacon

@GcL Precisely

Trish

@NautArch Technically? Being a Witch or druid puts you on the short list of the inquisition since you are not protected by the guild privilege, the number of magicans that abort their academic training and charlatans is likewise unprotected and while you could not press any of them, only very few of them actually have any combat spells they know and master.

kviiri

@Catofdoom2 Some general boss battle design considerations from my DnD days:
- be careful not to overshoot the creature's hit points and defenses. You don't want the combat do drag on. When in doubt, give it slightly less defenses because hitting things is more fun than not hitting things.
- plan a whole encounter around the boss, not just one monster. Out of the box DnD combat can be very static especially if the players have only one target to attack. Mix things up by adding secondary targets, battlefield effects like positions that confer special advantages, and the like.

KorvinStarmast

8:20 PM

@kviiri positioning in ToTM takes a LOT of description from DM

kviiri

@KorvinStarmast I didn't realize we're talking about ToTM, I see.

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri I only say that because Cat was doing ToTM for us and that arose as a thing ...

RevanantBacon

@Trish Oh, one other thing, there are ways for magic to aid in battle outside of just lobbing fireballs at the enemy. High-speed, long-distance communications and physical and mental fortification of allied forces are also incredibly helpful. How many of those alchemists could brew a potion that steels a mans resolve, quickens his reflexes, or strengthens his sword-arm? How many of them can craft healing poultices?

kviiri

Instead (or well, in addition) to conventional positioning I was thinking of more binary positions of power, eg. in one boss battle I ran back in the days the boss could only cast most of their spells in certain locations of the map so controlling these locations would hamstring them

KorvinStarmast

... but nothing further. When Shalvenay and I did a ToTM text game, in the back room, he spent a lot of time on setting up the 'scene' and detail for combat

One of the few things a grid is good at is quickly assessing positioning

RevanantBacon

8:22 PM

Plus, the fact that witches and druids get hunted by inquisitors could almost certainly be used in favor of an army recruiter, with the offer of protection from the inquisition in exchange for service.

KorvinStarmast

And terrain

Trish

@NautArch it was the absolute minimalist group that could actually do any damage above the healing, and the resulting average time to just smack it at that minimum damage. Of course, the average party will do more damage, but if the minimalist approach gives the monster enough time to eviscerate a whole town, it is possibly on par with a giant or small dragon.

kviiri

Those might be easier in ToTM than other aspects of positioning, like "who do I have the cover against, now?"

NautArch

@Trish I haven't had experience with that method of analysis. NOt sure I agree with it, but I'll take your word.

KorvinStarmast

@kviiri It still requires a non trivial effort, and I have found that a quick sketch as a DM (scratch paper) helps me then describe the battlefield so that the players grasp it.

Trish

8:27 PM

@RevanantBacon High-speed, long-distance communications - nope, there are none of these spells availeable to any human caster group. physical and mental fortification is extremely inefficient since the 3 spells that allow this are single target spells. potions cost hundreds of gold coins in ingredients alone and take weeks to produce a single dose. Healing potions contain ingredients costing about 500 gold! TDE is, as a result, an incredibly low magic game.

The whole premise is, that the average common farmer is lucky if he sees a single mage in his lifetime and magic artifacts are so rare that no player character ever will wield one

Even a "longsword +1" is something that is so rare in TDE that it is worthy of a king!

RevanantBacon

@Trish Are you telling me that there exists not a single spell capable of creating pretty colored lights? Communication isn't limited strictly to speaking words. Creating a flare-like streak of light in the sky, with a handful of colors predetermined to mean different things is just as effective as saying those things.

KorvinStarmast

@Trish yeah, that's a nice kind of setting, when one is going low magic

Trish

@RevanantBacon there is a whole schol of illusion magic, but the only spell that can do a flare is exclusive to Elves. who are not part of the empire.

Shing

if a mage is grabbed by Maximilian's Earthen Grasp

can he still cast spell?

NautArch

@Shing Is this for D&D 5e?

Shing

8:31 PM

@NautArch yes

Trish

@Shing sounds like a mainsite question... depends on the spell and caster?

Shing

@Trish yes, i was thinking he probably cant cast any spells require hand moving

Thomas Markov

Being restrained does not restrict your ability to cast spells.

So a creature restrained by earthen grasp would be able to cast spells as usual.

DForck42

@Trish agree

Trish

@ThomasMarkov unless you need things that you can't reach, e.g. your focus or such.

NautArch

8:33 PM

@Shing ^^. It only gives these three limitations @Shing.

Thomas Markov

@Trish Nope.

Restrained doesnt restrict your ability to fetch your focus or components.

RevanantBacon

@Trish At this point, I have to assume that you are deliberately avoiding directly addressing my points. "The only flare spell is elf exclusive". Yeah, OK, but are there not any other spells that exist that can produce light?

DForck42

30

Q: What Conditions prevent a caster from using Somatic spells?

The text from Somatic reads that the caster must have a hand free to gesture with when they cast a spell with a somatic component. None of the conditions such as restrained or grappled seem to restrict hand motion. Am I missing something or are these conditions useless for preventing the casti...

dnd-5e spells conditions spell-components

RevanantBacon

Make a small rock glow and toss it with a sling

NautArch

@DForck42 Whoa! Hey @DForck42!

Haven't see you for awhile!

Trish

8:35 PM

@ThomasMarkov Reread: can't reach. As in don't have it at hand like not in your pocket or pack

DForck42

@NautArch yo!!!

Thomas Markov

@Trish Well that doesnt have anything to do with earthen grasp. I also cant cast spells if I cant reach my focus while Im not restrained, so pointing that out is confusing at best.

Trish

@RevanantBacon There is a single spell that produces light. it IS the Flim Flam, which is that very same spell that can, only in the elven variant, detonate as a flare.

NautArch

@Trish What does "can't reach" have to do with this?

Trish

@NautArch beng restrained can make things otherwise reachable (by makeing a step over) unreachable.

Thomas Markov

8:37 PM

@Trish You can rule that way as the DM, but that is not a rule.

Shing

@DForck42 that makse sense, I assume Maximilian's Earthen Grasp is pretty "loose" grap

NautArch

@Trish Restrained has a specific mechanic in 5e

Trish

@ThomasMarkov "A restrained creature's speed becomes 0" - that means you can't even get to the next square over as you may not move to there to pick up your item.

Thomas Markov

Again with the confusion lol.

@Trish "Restraining a caster who happened to leave his focus 10 feet away" is a pretty niche use, methinks.

Someone_Evil

I think the situation with the needed spell component being on a table over there is a different one to the one being otherwise discussed

RevanantBacon

8:38 PM

@Trish I think this is a case of "can't see the forest through all the trees". You're, missing the big picture: the detonation isn't the important bit, the production of light is.

Shing

any hand can grap a mage, and stop him casting any Somatic spells?

Thomas Markov

@Shing No. No hand can do that.

Being grappled does not affect your ability to cast spells.

NautArch

30

Q: Is grabbing an opponent's arms to prevent casting within the "scope" 5e's combat?

Recently, my players faced off against an enemy spellcaster. During the fight, the barbarian stated that it was his intention to grab the spellcaster in a bearhug, pinning his arms to his sides to prevent him from casting spells with somatic or material components (unable to reach his component p...

dnd-5e combat grapple

RevanantBacon

In a similar vein: can alchemists produce any sort of firework? I know that's pretty unlikely, but that would also be another signal source.

Trish

@RevanantBacon the spell is but for that last mentioned variant not allowed to be further than 20 feet away from the caster and it is usually rather dim.

DForck42

8:39 PM

reading restrained and earthen grasp, at my table id' allow a caster to use somatic components

Trish

@RevanantBacon Gunpowder doesn'T exist. Fireworks cost more than the equipment for a whole unit for a single flare Aventuria is that hard on magic.

NautArch

@DForck42 Same here. If you wan to stop that, you need to incapacitate

DForck42

@NautArch or somehow specifically neutralize their hands

RevanantBacon

@Trish 20' into the air is pretty decent, and if it's used during the early morning, when most battles are starting, it should be pretty effective. You can see the light of a single candle from over 1 1/2 miles if unobstructed.

NautArch

@DForck42 Yeah, although that turns out into houserules and DM introduced mechanics

Cat of doom2

8:42 PM

okay! i'm back

RevanantBacon

@Trish OK, I figured that was the case

DForck42

@NautArch pretty much

Shing

I see, thanks guys

Cat of doom2

@Trish what if you account for d20's doing increased damage?

RevanantBacon

I assume that the light spell is somewhere around the brightness of a torch though, so there should definitely be no problem seeing that.

Cat of doom2

8:43 PM

do nat 20's do increased damage in the 5th edition?

nat 20

Trish

@RevanantBacon "Battlefield magic" is explicitly very very rare in The Dark Eye. The chance that the mage you get actually knows the Flim Flam and is good enough to change the color (which needs you to know the spell with iirc 7 points, making it a spell you specialize in) is near 0

G. Moylan

@Catofdoom2 nat 20s double the number of dice you used for an attack roll, but not the modifiers

NautArch

@Catofdoom2 Trish is talking about another game - The Dark Eye

G. Moylan

Ah yes, different game

Trish

@Catofdoom2 pardon?

Cat of doom2

8:44 PM

no, i was talking about forever ago when he @'d me

@Trish this message

NautArch

@Catofdoom2 You should reply to that message so the thread can be followed :) Also, please don't assume gender about any of us.

RevanantBacon

@Trish What counts as "battlefield magic"? Is that some term for casting spells very quickly? Or do you mean spells that are for fighting battles, like a giant fireball, or an earthqquake?

Cat of doom2

@NautArch I just realized Trish is indeed a girl name and I said he. sorry about that @Trish

Trish

@RevanantBacon any magic used on the battlefield. Fireball is a spell that is known to about 20 human spellcasters on the whole continent populated by some 5 million humans.

G. Moylan

@Catofdoom2 You're still making assumptions. There are men named Leslie and women named Charlie. Names don't mean much, particularly on the internet

RevanantBacon

8:47 PM

@Trish OK, so it specifically refers to magic that is for combat. So this light spell is not battle magic, because it's a light spell

Thomas Markov

@Catofdoom2 double the dice.

Cat of doom2

@G.Moylan charlie makes snese though

G. Moylan

@Catofdoom2 All names make sense. Everyone's name is valid.

2

RevanantBacon

So your comment of "battlefield magic is rare" is irrelevant

Trish

@RevanantBacon no, ANY spell on the battlefield is rare in Aventuria.

Cat of doom2

8:48 PM

@G.Moylan thats not what i meant and you know it

RevanantBacon

@Trish That's because they don't have any mages in their army, not because casting them while on the battlefield is hard

MikeQ

@Catofdoom2 Yes, a natural 20 on an attack roll is a critical, and does increased damage. This is covered in the basic rules.

Cat of doom2

@MikeQ thank you

G. Moylan

@Catofdoom2 I have no idea what you meant or mean, and I don't appreciate your tone.

Cat of doom2

@G.Moylan i didn't use emoji's and i didn't say anything aloud so you can't receive a tone without assuming. now look who's assuming

Trish

8:50 PM

@Catofdoom2 if about 5% of the rolls do double damage... uh.... that's.... 4 attacks a round a 4.5 dagage average, that's 256 attacks ithout crits... let me chuck the rest into the calculator...

MikeQ

This is a text-based chat room. Let's try to assume that folks are trying to communicate in good faith.

DForck42

@NautArch so i'm looking at getting a projector to use in my 5e game so i can keep using the digital tools i've been using during the pandemic

Cat of doom2

@MikeQ then why are you making me the bad guy?!

MikeQ

Nobody is making anybody a good guy or bad guy.

DForck42

tone's hard to tell in chat, let's take a step back?

Cat of doom2

8:52 PM

@Trish thank you. is it okay if I cite you as my balancing tester?

@DForck42 that's exactly what i said.

G. Moylan

@Catofdoom2 There are some great Q/As on this stack about dice probabilities and encounter/monster balance

Cat of doom2

@G.Moylan thank you but i won't be needing it. @Trish has been very helpful so I don't need some random numbers that were posted months ago

MikeQ

The specific numbers may be different, but the logic and approach may still be useful. If you want to use your own numbers for homebrew content, then knowing some statistics will be important.

Cat of doom2

thank you for the thought @G.Moylan

Someone_Evil

I'll offer that there's a lot more to balancing something than some very back-of-the-napkin maths

G. Moylan

8:56 PM

There are also specific Q/As that breakdown how individual mechanics are affected by using certain dice, which I think can be universally applicable, but you do you

Cat of doom2

@MikeQ didn't I just say "no thank you"? please stop pushing it

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