TRPG General Chat

Xirema

15:00

@StackLloyd Oh, that was something else I was going to mention: one thing I've been doing for newer players is encouraging to read through the rules, but emphasizing that they should focus on telling me "what they want to do", and then I, through my mastery [lol, as if!] of the rules, will explain what they need to roll to do that.

So far that's worked pretty well.

nitsua60

Everywhere else on the site I've seen that abbreviated as "ALPG" with a reference to which season it's from, if necessasry. Given the confusion I'm expressing, I suggest you spell out ALEE, which is used exactly once on the site, by you.

Xirema

I have been spending a lot of time acquiring attack macros for Roll20 though, because combat is SOOOOO slow on roll20 if you don't macro them together.

I've gotten so spoiled in IRL games where I just roll all my attack dice and damage dice simultaneously. T_T

nitsua60

Anyway, I gotta run. This is obviously not mission-critical, do as you please.

Akixkisu

DDALPGEEV2 is what WotC uses.

NautArch

@StackLloyd My group is like that, too. We like our own worlds.

Akixkisu

15:02

Sure, Í can spell it out.

NautArch

@StackLloyd I wouldn't worry too much about that. What level are your starting at?

StackLloyd

@MikeQ You're right, at some point I will have to stop to explaing stuff and clarify rules anyway. But at least some "preparation" would reduce those occurrences, I thought...

@NautArch Level 1. Yeah maybe I'm just worrying too much

@Xirema I always say "if you just want to roll dices, head to Vegas. Story first".

MikeQ

@StackLloyd There's nothing wrong with starting new players with one-shots. Usually they're more helpful for new players who are unsure about joining in the first place. However I'm not sure it's going to solve what you want it to solve.

NautArch

@StackLloyd Honestly, the level progression alone is a really good intro to the mechanics. You'll be clarifying things anyway, so I don't hink that's a big concern. Have they read the PHB/Basic rules?

StackLloyd

@NautArch Eh, for what I can tell, right now they've only read the parts about their races and classes...

Akixkisu

15:05

@nitsua60 rpg.stackexchange.com/posts/150783/revisions there you go.

NautArch

@StackLloyd Which is a really good start! Definitely have them read chapters 7,8, and 9.

Are you using dndbeyond?

Walking through their character sheets with them will also be helpful (and you can make sure they've got things right.)

MikeQ

@StackLloyd Also, considering that the players don't want a prewritten, fixed-path campaign, it seems reasonable to have a more organic story that they build. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that a campaign must be paced a certain way.

GcL

@Xirema Maybe stuff those together in a github repo or gist? Sounds pretty useful to roll20 users.

NautArch

@StackLloyd Reading what is a session zero and how to dm a session zero will be really helpful.

and then, of course, running a session zero :)

StackLloyd

I suggested them to use three apps to help them with the sheet and the rules, while personally helping them build their characters, trying to explain what we were doing

@NautArch Thanks for the links

GcL

15:09

@StackLloyd I got good mileage running orc and pie with some children to introduce them to role playing. Got some really entertaining solutions.

NautArch

@StackLloyd ALso really important to know that you and they will make mistakes. ANd that's fine. You can address after session and use them as teaching moments. Not a big deal as long as everyone is having fun.

Akixkisu

@nitsua60 you also might want to ask OP which season they are playing, as one can only discern that they are not playing season 8 (unless something is going wrong).

NautArch

@Akixkisu I'm pretty sure you can only play the current season. But i'm not an expert.

Akixkisu

@NautArch well, one should only play the current season

NautArch

@Akixkisu I think they only can play current.

Akixkisu

15:12

@NautArch nothing is stoping a home table at playing a different season using the AL rules.

Therefore I said "should".

StackLloyd

@GcL Yeah right now the issue I'm seeing the most is that many of them use indirect speech. Like "so I go to the guards and ask them if they have any info". I always encourage to speak with the character's mouth, talking to me (impersonating the NPC)

Akixkisu

The reason for saying that it is unlikely that they are playing S8 is the amount of gold that they have at their hands.

GcL

@StackLloyd That's one way to do it. I usually mix and match. Sometimes it's "Grog says..." other times it's "I tell them..."

StackLloyd

So I thought perhaps learning through one-shots first might set them up better, before playing the campaign I've prepared. But maybe, making mistakes right in the campaign and learning how they affect your game, sometimes even permanently, might be better

GcL

I like to emphasize the difference between players and characters. Players are people... characters are numbers and worlds on paper. Players make a decision and then have to role play that decision through the lens of the character.

It helps avoid my guy syndrome.

StackLloyd

15:16

I guess I'm just worried of disappointing them with a boring pace and disrupted flow

MikeQ

@StackLloyd Ah, okay. There's a possible factor then. If you think there's potential for irreversable in-game damage to occur in session 1, due to newness of roleplaying, then perhaps a practice session would indeed help

GcL

@StackLloyd If you pregen some characters for them as examples, that could be useful.

NautArch

@Akixkisu I'm not sure AL is a hometable thing? But again, I"m not sure about AL. My assumption was that was through specific channels. Can anyone run AL games anywhere?

@StackLloyd If that's how they want to play, let them play like that. Not everyone is comfortable in first person and it's not a requirement.

Akixkisu

@NautArch yes and they should adhere to the rules, but nothing is stopping them from not doing that.

GcL

@StackLloyd Sounds like you've got "keep it moving forward" at the forefront of your thoughts. So I don't think you'll have an issue doing it. Might be useful to communicate your concerns to the players.

StackLloyd

15:18

@GcL Right, I should speak to them about this issue. Maybe I'm the only one feeling this as a problem

MikeQ

"Might be useful to communicate" is a pretty good heuristic. Especially in TTRPGs. Doubly-especially for DMs.

GcL

And state how you're going to ameliorate slowdowns. e.g. "well just put a pin in it and keep it moving" So there's not mismatched expectations

NautArch

@Akixkisu Yeah, you can run them privately. WHo knew? (not me) Now diving into can you run seasons that have finished.

GcL

@StackLloyd That's insightful. Definitely ask what their concerns are.

Xirema

@GcL I mean, that's where I'm getting most of them. XD

StackLloyd

15:19

@NautArch While that is true, I try to encourage roleplaying rather than "storytelling-playing" as I like to call it. With indirect speech, it feels like you're narrating what your character is doing, rather than impersonating them. Nonetheless, I don't make it a big deal

NautArch

@Akixkisu and it does look like older seasons are play available

Akixkisu

@NautArch dndadventurersleague.org/start-here/dungeon-masters the old seasons are all available through the catalogue.

NautArch

@StackLloyd This may be a potential issue. You shouldn't make your players RP how you want them to. It's hard enough - let them do what's comfortable.

Xirema

@StackLloyd I mean, I like the Ludonarrative provided by rolling dice. I think the act itself is a mechanism in how you tell stories; not just the consequences of the result. But if you're spending 40 seconds a turn just figuring out how to roll dice or whether you should be rolling dice or not, it's not having that benefit. =P

Akixkisu

@NautArch the question is are you simple running the modules or are you using the ever so slightly adjusted rules set of an older module.

GcL

15:21

@StackLloyd Cool. You could also play around with some other systems to get used to role playing before hopping into D&D. Lady Blackbird comes to mind.

Akixkisu

@NautArch there it gets iffy, season 8 technically ditched gold rewards (which will come back in season 9).

NautArch

@Akixkisu Yeah, AL just got squirrelier.

@Akixkisu It seems like you can play older seasons with newer season characters, you just aren't eligible for rewards.

GcL

@StackLloyd If you're around when @BESW is online, they have seemingly encyclopedic knowledge of various rpg systems and would probably be able to give you a good recommendation for good intro systems.

G. Moylan

@Akixkisu some of those adventures are REALLY good

MikeQ

@StackLloyd For new players, you'll need to be patient about the first-person narration stuff. Let them develop that style over time.

Akixkisu

15:24

@G.Moylan yup it has its charm, but some of the DMing stuff is a chore (unless you are sloppy which nobody really controls).

Xirema

@GcL Worth noting though that a lot of those suggestions will be "play something other than D&D". XD Which is actually pretty valid advice for a lot of groups that would rather focus on storytelling over "wargaminess", the latter of which is what D&D has historically been best at handling, and even 5e tends towards that playstyle.

Akixkisu

It is also much more railroady than what I usually like to DM.

G. Moylan

@Akixkisu I just mean even outside of the AL framework. Some good content in there. I intend to steal some for my campaigns

Akixkisu

@G.Moylan that is a good idea, I highly recommend the locations and maps.

G. Moylan

@G.Moylan The Black Road is specifically one I've been eyeing for a few months now.

StackLloyd

15:25

@NautArch Yeah I don't force my roleplaying view on them, I just try to encourage impersonation rather than narration. Everyone has their style of roleplaying, and unless it just comes down to the "I want to roll for perception to find a trap" instead of "Ghork looks for hints of something odd on the floor in front of him", I don't enforce anything

@GcL Sounds interesting, I hope to find him online sometimes

I also hope that they don't fall into the "it's you (DM) vs us (players)" trap, or that I don't make them feel like that's what is going on

Xirema

I love the heck out of Dice Funk, but from listening to their archives, it's been clear that they should have switched from D&D5e to something in the PbtA lineup years ago, just from how their campaigns usually go.

Yuuki

@NautArch For some people, third-person narration makes it easier to roleplay. It can be easier to act out a personality that isn't yours when you have that bit of mental distance.

NautArch

@StackLloyd Do remember that normally players don't call for rolls. They should be doing the latter and you decide the roll. In those cases, you can ask them "what are you doing" and then let them narrate it and you ask for a roll if necessary. But it may be the difference (in that example) of "I look for things that are odd(perception)" vs "I check the floor for traps(investigation)"

Xirema

@StackLloyd Yeah, even in D&D, players should be focusing on describing what they do, and DM responding with what roll, if any, they should be making.

StackLloyd

@NautArch Right, it's my duty to guide them through such things

Xirema

15:29

Obviously combat is a major exception, where some degree of narration is good, but players mostly need to focus on the mechanical interactions they're trying to deploy.

StackLloyd

I've always played with experienced players so, funnily enough, this my first time with first-timers and I'm concerned about meeting their expectations. I should talk to them about this

Xirema

@StackLloyd Yes you should. ;)

Sidebar: it is infuriating to me that of all the Roll20 macros I could find for my table, not ONE of them lets me call for "an Intelligence check, using your Medicine proficiency".

They all just assume that skill checks are a thing, and that all skills will only ever be used with their default ability. >_<

GcL

it's an off-label use of medicine ;-)

NautArch

@StackLloyd And that'll make them feel better about their own insecurities/expectations :)

Sdjz

@Xirema Which character sheet are you using?

NautArch

15:34

@StackLloyd I'd definitely recommend walking through their builds and backgrounds with them.

Xirema

@GcL I guess. But when the Artificer declares she wants to dissect and study the Redbrand Bandit she just killed, are you really going to call for a Wisdom(Medicine) check, when an Intelligence(Medicine) check is clearly the right one to call for? ;)

@Sdjz The OGL 5e sheets.

I could probably homebrew something, but I've been trying to shape it into the roll templates they provide, and I understand even less about Roll Templates than I do about the normal rolling syntax; and that's not that much to begin with.

GcL

@Xirema INT could be fine for that. I use INT sleight of hand for tying knots.

Yuuki

@Xirema Nah, I'd say that's a CON check.

Fail and you barf all over the corpse.

Xirema

@Yuuki Not for a Lawful Evil Character. XD

Yuuki

@Xirema Hey, Lawful Evil characters can have weak stomachs too.

It's not like you get a free bionic digestive replacement when you get your Villain card.

Xirema

15:38

@Yuuki Well, nobody in my party has a Constitution score below 14, SOOOOoooo......

MikeQ

@Yuuki Not if you outlaw queasiness. Then the LE character can't get nauseated.

G. Moylan

@Yuuki I'm imagining a villain that can't stand the sight of blood. Like in Kingsman

NautArch

@Yuuki That's totally part of the Villain Plus package.

StackLloyd

@NautArch Yes, done that, though there are still missing details that I'd like to address. I see they are understandably too focused on the dices and stats, I as a player tend to fall into that too. I'd like them to think more about, e.g, why their character starts with a two-handed greataxe, rather than the d12 damage it deals

Pierre Cathé

@NautArch Is that the one with laminated membership cards ?

NautArch

15:43

@StackLloyd Honestly? I think you're asking more than necessary. They want the damage of the great-axe? Cool. Let's build your character's personality around the great axe.

Yuuki

@StackLloyd To be fair, some questions can be inane. Why does my character have a greataxe instead of a greatsword? Well, it's not like I have some grand design as to why. Sure, some things can be plot hooks (my greataxe has been in my family for generations) but not everything has to be a plot hook.

NautArch

I had a paladin that started off with a maul. A lot of who he was and how I narrated combat was based on that. Then the DM gave me a +3 glaive as part of a random treasure roll and my character concept totally shifted.

MikeQ

@NautArch No, I demand a 1-page backstory per item in their inventory!

NautArch

@StackLloyd I think it's more important to focus on their story and their initial character goals. It's then your job to insert hooks to develop them or to create new hooks based on what happens in-game.

Yuuki

Also, some people like being side characters.

(me)

GcL

15:47

@Yuuki There are some canned quests like that. Where the players get handed out little npc cards where they have an action a main goal and a secondary goal. I had a player that liked to play those and try to give them some depth.

StackLloyd

@NautArch I don't know about adding my touch to their characters. I don't want to make them feel like I'm in charge of what they are supposed to be playing

Pierre Cathé

@StackLloyd just so you know I'm introducing total newbies to the game this week and I'm taking the opposite stance : I'm going to dump them right into Curse of Strahd without an introductory one-shot so I can let you know how it goes

StackLloyd

The greataxe was just a bland example. What I meant is, rather than focussing on the dices and stats, I'd like them to think about their actions based on the story and personality of their character

NautArch

@StackLloyd Oh my - not what I meant! I meant that they should develop a backstory and fill out their traits/ideals/bonds/flaws. Between those things, you should have ideas on ways for them to progress their character's story and not just their stats.

StackLloyd

@PierreCathé Uh, sounds interesting

NautArch

15:49

Think of it like you are running story-arcs for the game. Both main storylines and side storylines. But the characters should have their own as well, but it's still up to you to provide engagements that further their personal stories.

Yuuki

@StackLloyd You can do the former without doing the latter. TRPGs are a collaborative exercise after all.

StackLloyd

Oh, sure! I misunderstood. Yes, I've already thought of how their characters' stories interwine with the campaign

NautArch

This question I think is problematic. Although I think the only answer "there isn't anything you can do, it's up to the player in question that isn't you and the DM"

@StackLloyd ah, perfect! And honestly, I'm running a homebrew campaign right now and my storyline is constantly changing based on the characters actions. They're helping me write it :)

Carcer

whenever my players do something which changes the story I've carefully written I kill one as a punishment

not the characters, the players

GcL

@NautArch Why is the question problematic? Seems like it has probably come up for people before. I know it comes up with my for npc companions & henchmen.

Carcer

15:52

I only have two left but they're staying on the rails and they're appropriately impressed by my DMPC!

Pierre Cathé

@NautArch "there isn't anything you can do, it's up to the player in question that isn't you and the DM" seems like a good answer to the question, with maybe a couple sentences of how to bring it up to them

Yuuki

@GcL Well, the asker isn't the player in question nor the DM.

StackLloyd

@NautArch That's good, but beware of spoilers. I have sometimes struggled to let the players be involved into the writing without spoiling what was eventually going to/supposed to happen

Anyway, I have to go now. Thank you all for sharing you experiences and thoughts

GcL

@Yuuki Which means they probably won't directly be pulling levers to fix it, but they have observed a problem and are seeking an answer. The answer might be the DM and player need to do X and Y.

Yuuki

@StackLloyd My viewpoint on this is that it's okay to be spoiled because the surprise factor shouldn't be the most valuable part of the narrative.

GcL

15:55

Instead of You need to do X and they need to do Y

Yuuki

Throw out feelers for what kind of narrative development the players have in mind and it's all right to work with them to figure out how to realize it or talk about whether a different arc would be better.

JohnP

16:20

@Xirema Really? When I first started, I loved the premade modules. Of course, that was about all there was at that time. There weren't too many DM's at that time writing their own.

MikeQ

@Carcer Does this statement require an insight check

Carcer

@MikeQ I mean, you can make one if you want, but I'd let my two surviving players detect the blatant sarcasm without rolling

Someone_Evil

@NautArch That answer should continue along the lines of "Here are things are things your DM should do/might want to consider ..." which I think is the approach the current answer takes.

Actually, they have the note at the end, but that's hopefully not a problem

Hot RPG Questions

16:36

8

Q: Is passive Investigation essentially truesight against illusions?

I have been thinking about this for a few days (since taking the Observant feat specifically) and have now seen my logic backed up in this question. Lets assume a character has 20 passive Investigation. A level 13 caster with 20 INT, has a DC of (8+5+5) = 18. Does the character see through the ...

Sdjz

@Xirema Not sure I created the room right so just a heads-up that I left something on that macro you were looking to make over on this room

NautArch

Hmm, is a beastmaster's beast considered to be fully controlled by them at all times? As opposed to things like mounts (at least RAW)?

Someone_Evil

16:52

@NautArch Sort of... the Ranger can command them and it has no listed refusal mechanism (it will sacrifice itself for you), but there is certainly an implied DM controls in the absence of your commands after some stated directive.

> If you are incapacitated or absent, the beast acts on its own, focusing on protecting you and itself. (PHB Errata)

NautArch

@Someone_Evil okeydoke - thanks! Putting up an answer for that Ranger/animal companion question and that's a big part of it.

Someone_Evil

I feel really sorry for that Beastmaster player. If the "you get to have a fluffy companion" part gets undermined there isn't a whole lot left of the subclass.

NautArch

On a side note, I'm completely giving up my back up subjective answer crusade.

DucksGoMooful

Even without that problem, there's not a whole lot in the subclass :P

NautArch

@Someone_Evil Yeah, that was a focus on my answer (just posted.)

G. Moylan

16:58

should we have a tag for Pulp Cthulhu? It's a supplement for a gameplay and stylistic variant to CoC

changes the game from Creepy Mind Horror to more Indiana Jones style

official publication from Chaosium, too

Someone_Evil

@G.Moylan One should/would be created when an question about it is posted, no need to worry about it until then. It would most likely be autodeleted anyway if it had no questions tagged.

G. Moylan

@Someone_Evil sounds good

NautArch

SPell decision for my upcoming level 4 wizard: Dragon's Breath, Earthbind, Misty Step, Tenser's Disk, Hold Person. Leaning Misty Step and Hold person (there seem to be quite a few Orcs in our campaign.)

G. Moylan

more field control/manipulation is always nice

NautArch

We're alsomostly a group of small creature. 2 gnomes, 2 halflings, and an elf and a half-orc.

Tenser was an evac option in case one of those big guys goes down and we have no spells to get htem on their feet.

Someone_Evil

17:05

@NautArch My players are certainly holding misty step in high regard. Not sure if that is it being really good, or some pundit on the internet saying it is.

NautArch

@Someone_Evil I'm also still debating Fade Away vs Resilient (CON). Fade Away kindasorta obviates the need for misty step.

G. Moylan

TFD is great for many things.

Someone_Evil

@NautArch I really love the mental image of some gnomes being followed a unconscious and sprayed half-orc on a floating disc.

NautArch

@Someone_Evil whistling. we're whistling while walking.

ah nuts. Forgot about Find Familiar as another spell option.

Yuuki

> Fond Familiar. A nearby pan sauce animates and becomes your companion.

JohnP

17:20

@Yuuki Wouldnt that be Fondue Familiar?

Yuuki

fond

Adjective: fond (comparative fonder, superlative fondest)

(chiefly with of) Having a liking or affection (for).
Shakespeare
more fond on her than she upon her love
Irving
a great traveller, and fond of telling his adventures

(20 more not shown…)

> 2. (cooking) Brown residue in pans from cooking meats and vegetables.
He used the fond to make a classic French pan sauce.

NautArch

17:36

@Yuuki TIL

JohnP

Huh. Interesting.

Yuuki

If you've ever made sausage gravy, that's from fond.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast WIth a gloomstalker, do you never lose your umbral sight invisibility while in darkness against an opponent with darkvision? EVen after attacks?

^above is open to all, just asking korvin because i think he's played a gloomstalker.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch It is always on.

The question is an interesting one, vis a vis intent, and being "invisible" still only gives them disadvantage to detect you, right? As nits hasn't put us in that exact position yet, we have not had that erupt during play yet.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast that's what I thought. neat! Put up my answer.

V2Blast

17:47

@NautArch Correct!

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast invisible is invisible. You should have advantage on every attack unless they've got a different method of 'seeing' you besides darkvision. And they'll have disadvantage on attacks against you.

V2Blast

You're invisible to any and all creatures as long as they rely solely on darkvision to see you.

> You are also adept at evading creatures that rely on darkvision. While in darkness, you are invisible to any creature that relies on darkvision to see you in that darkness.

KorvinStarmast

@Xirema I use token actions

Xirema

@KorvinStarmast Yup. Although I've been—slowly—learning how to simplify them down to the core essentials that the OGL sheets already provide.

KorvinStarmast

@MikeQ I'm working on the 50' of silk rope, and then I'll get to the bed roll ..

@NautArch Yep. :) And then the cleric casts the light cantrip and I am hosed. :p

@Xirema And I finally learned to save every single token action I write out in a text file to easily cut and past into the next monster that needs one two encounters later ..... saves a lot of time

and then I overwrote the text file

NautArch

17:58

@KorvinStarmast Hey everyone, I can see! Oh hai, ranger!

V2Blast

@KorvinStarmast Oof

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch I can't answer this question because we are supposed to keep this site family friendly.

@V2Blast You would think I'd have learned. About a decade or so ago, about half of a novel I was writing died on an HD when the power supply 's capacitors failed miserably and cooked off the PS , HD, and Motherboard. NO, I had no Write to CDROm on that rig, it was an old one. :p

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast It's BEAST, Korvin :P

Someone_Evil

@MikeQ Is that one page per one of my 1000 ball bearings? I may be some time.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast although now I see where you also may have been going. Big Cat :)

Red worms aren't official, right?

Carcer

18:08

can't search 'em on dnd beyond

also, "but I can see all my ideas being denied by the DM, as he usually makes our moves fail unless they are original and smart." is throwing up a big ol' red flag

NautArch

@Carcer yeah, i thought about adding more on that but it seemed problematic territory.

Carcer

I'm pretty sure there's prior form in the published material for parasitic conditions treated as diseases and cured as you would cure a disease though

like yeah here we go, the gas spore

gives off spores that "invade a creature's body", explicitly is a disease

KorvinStarmast

rot grubs also don't respond to cure disease

Carcer

yeah, but they're mechanically quite different

KorvinStarmast

yes

@NautArch Heh, I exercised restraint and all is well.

NautArch

18:17

@Carcer Or the Spawn of Kyuss

neither of those things prevent polymorphing. Really certain the DM just doesn't like it when they cast that.

Carcer

Yeah, that's probably the actual problem in this case

Yuuki

@Carcer Does the flag have worms on it?

NautArch

@Yuuki wormsign

GcL

18:49

Is wereraven a 5e thing?

Xirema

@GcL Curse of Strahd, 242.

GcL

Gotcha. I haven't even opened that book.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch updoot

GcL

Maybe the DM got sick of dealing with a lycanthrope... which is a learning experience for the DM and player.

Carcer

the thing is they're level 7 so there's nothing a wereraven can do there that isn't something a druid or appropriate spells could do already

Mark Wells

18:53

@GcL I kind of want to ask how much they've been abusing their polymorph capabilities lately

GcL

@Carcer True, but the immunity to non-magical and non-silvered damage is a bit OP.

Steps on the toes of the heavily armored feat in my experience.

Carcer

yeah, but that's not what the DM took away

Mark Wells

Because it's a red flag to me that the player gets one of their powers disabled by plot device magic, and their response is to stall the whole campaign until the DM agrees to fix it

On the other hand they're not actually saying that's what happened

Carcer

I'm reminded of rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/147955

NautArch

@GcL I really dislike the optional rule on PCs accepting lycanthropy

or being lycans

GcL

18:57

Also lycanthropy fundamentally changes the character taking it out of the players hands as I've played it and played with it.

It's a real serious problem. Like, fix this or the character leaves the campaign. Lycanthropes aren't usually characterized as the sort of characters you can party around with.

NautArch

@GcL Yeah, and even if the party accepts it for whatever reason, I'd definitely make RP downsides. It can't be all sunshine and roses.

KorvinStarmast

What we did in an earlier edition was that, since lycanthropy as a concept of a curse is kinda cool, we only let it trigger when the moon is full. The PC was otherwise vulnerable.

Carcer

the thing about lycanthropy as D&D presents is that yeah it's really bad if you're one of the evil varieties

NautArch

@MarkWells yeah, there are some table issues here

Carcer

if you're a sodding werebear that just forces you to be good

KorvinStarmast

18:59

In this edition, I'll take the "it has too many fiddly bits attached to it" stance and not allow it as a DM for PCs.

GcL

@NautArch I had a DM that let that go on for a while, but we found an awful lot of scrolls of greater restoration when the damage immunity trivialized an increasing number of encounters.

Carcer

oh no, you'll never fit into an adventuring party

Mark Wells

@GcL FWIW, the one lycanthrope we've had in my campaign, we didn't take control out of the player's hands. I just said "play like a monstrous predator" and he did it

GcL

@MarkWells Nice. Good player then.

Mark Wells

I mean, then the rest of the party trapped him in a burning building and ran off

NautArch

19:00

@MarkWells We had one, and it was pretty awful as a DM. But I do like the idea of play this correctly and letting them do it.

Mark Wells

But player agency!

NautArch

@MarkWells and an excellent response!

kill it with fire!

GcL

Although that's a tough case because you're asking the player to take over an NPC. Essentially neatly boxing in my guy syndrome for the story progression. Asking them to ask, "what would my lycanthrope do?"

@NautArch I've never experienced it done well other than as a "we need to fix this now" motivator.

NautArch

@GcL which works if they're trying to fix it. It's when they say "nah, i'm cool" where the problems arise.

Mark Wells

@GcL My Guy syndrome is a pathological extreme of a normal and healthy behavior

Carcer

19:03

being natural/acclimatised lycanthropes is fine when it's the whole party what can do it. It's a really huge power buff for just one PC to have

NautArch

Odds are is that the lycanthropes are known in the area and towns are on the lookout (maybe magically). But that also seems heavy handed.

GcL

@MarkWells It's an inversion of control. My explanation is the player makes the decisions and pushes them through the lens of the character. NPCs are different as they've got preset decisions and motivations. Asking a player, "what would this character do?" seems risky.

But if you've got a good player that's got a good grasp on what's going on, why, and the limits of it, then that sounds like a heck of a good table.

@NautArch Ran into that trope. Silver pins stabbing everyone coming into town.

NautArch

@GcL underneath some very very heavy rocks :D

Mark Wells

Asking "what would my character do?" is fine. Really, it's mostly a problem when someone makes a character who's heavily dysfunctional, and then inflicts their dysfunction on the group

GcL

@NautArch Ha! that would have made it at least funny

NautArch

19:07

@MarkWells GUy at one of the tables i'm a player at is like that. And so far both of his characters have acted similarly. But he's "just playing his character and doing what he would do."

GcL

@MarkWells Characters are just numbers and words on a page. The player is the person that makes all the decisions. Pushing benevolent decisions through a the lens of a kind character is easy. Pushing tough decision through a Machiavellian character is easy. Mismatches are interesting to me.

Mark Wells

@GcL This is a good reason to play it like KorvinStarmast said, where all the werebeast properties apply only during the full moon

GcL

Like, the decision is to save the orphans.... how does the usually lawful evil character doe this and why? How does the lawful good paladin make the tough decision and pull the trolly cart lever?

@MarkWells In the short term, yeah. In the long term it fundamentally changes the character of the infected yes? Wererats become scheming rats. Werebears retreat to be hermits to avoid contact... etc

NautArch

@MarkWells Including immunities? I do like that better.

GcL

I concur that retcon'ing the damage immunity seems like it would make it less obtrusive to other players.

Mark Wells

19:11

The damage immunity in particular makes you obviously inhuman all the time

GcL

I concur

Carcer

@GcL werebears are described as tending to be loners but also "a werebear passes on its lycanthropy only to chosen companions or apprentices" so it's not like they can't have buddies

Rubiksmoose

19:29

@Carcer Of course not! They need someone to give werebear hugs to.

Yuuki

@NautArch Maybe he's in WitPro and his assigned profile is "guy who hides his dysfunctional personality through same-ish D&D characters". What if it's My Guy syndrome all the way down?

NautArch

@Yuuki I...wouldn't be surprised.

Yuuki

@GcL What about weretrees?

Mark Wells

19:46

@Yuuki Spend an increasing amount of time sunbathing?

Do they transform during the full moon? Tree transformation seems like it should tie into the seasons.

Like, in fall you shed your leaves, and then your bark, and then your roots, and survive the winter as a humanoid so that you can eat food for energy and go inside for warmth. Then in spring you find a good sunny spot and put down roots again.

Like other werefolks you're not entirely welcome in human society, but for economic reasons. You're essentially mooching off the town's food supply all winter.

Yuuki

What would a were-werewolf be like?

Human most of the time, human form werewolf during the full moon, and then wolf form werewolf during one of those fancy supermoons?

Mark Wells

Identical to a regular werewolf. Human most of the time, but during the full moon they turn into a werewolf, which turns into a wolf.

NautArch

20:22

It's getting hard not to make young frankenstein jokes right now.

V2Blast

@Carcer The good ones are stated to be very careful about who they pass the curse on to and are mostly recluses

@NautArch There wolf!

NautArch

@V2Blast where castle?

G. Moylan

20:40

@MarkWells you want to make sure you pick a nice spot in town to provide shade or branches for the hangman, or you risk being chopped down

@G.Moylan I'm thinking now of old lore about wood nymphs living in trees and by cutting them down you were literally killing the tree spirit

Also dealing with the sudden surge in population during the winter would be rough. Very interesting dynamics there

a moving treeline to help protect or border certain regions could be interesting as well.

what a neat concept

V2Blast

@NautArch There castle!

G. Moylan

I'm picturing villagers only gathering fallen wood in the forests now and relying on druids to speak with any "turned" family members

I was toying with a living forest concept a while ago and now I've got it. Credit to @Yuuki and @MarkWells

Mark Wells

They might be able to provide fruit, though that's slightly squicky.

G. Moylan

@MarkWells eh they provide food to the village. Don't think too much about it :P

Mark Wells

Yeah, it's their contribution to society.

G. Moylan

20:49

I'm thinking when one falls it'd be an almost ritualistic experience to chop it up for lumber.

NautArch

@MarkWells new meaning to "fruit of my loins"

Mark Wells

Or maybe they're super-old, and valued for their wisdom and perspective, to the point that nobody expects them to be economically productive

OH MY GOD this is the Pokemon professors

The Oracle

-1

Q: How to address undue criticism that targets diverse answers?

I find that my opinions are being unfairly targeted by high ranking members. How can we keep the quality of the answers if diverse or taboo opinions are targeted? Two examples: Player asks for help about what to do, his wife is playing a Ranger Beast Master and is jealous about the DM making ...

discussion comments policy moderation

Mark Wells

He's named Professor Oak because he's literally a tree.

Also, why do witches burn?

BESW

Because they're people.

BESW

21:08

@StackLloyd [wave] I'd be happy to talk with you about those subjects!

(We'll probably disagree on a few points of protocol; I've found it's really useful for players to feel free to bounce between stances as needed and I've got some friends who wouldn't play at all if there was any pressure on them to word things exactly as their characters would say. But disagreement isn't argument and even though I've personally found some of your tools aren't as useful for my own friends, your friends are not mine.)

Hot RPG Questions

9

Q: Is this statue in Curse of Strahd an easter egg?

I just read this question which made me discover the funny anecdote of The Head of Vecna (Note that apart from the hand and eye artifacts in the DMG, I had never heard of Vecna before). Therefore I start reading a bit about this Vecna character, and learn that he became a god of secrets. Now I'...

dnd-5e published-adventures curse-of-strahd rpg-pop-culture

nitsua60

@Akixkisu Cool--thanks. I'm going back to my posts that mention EEPC and ALPG, too, and making sure I've spelled it out.

BESW

21:25

@NautArch Make MST3K jokes instead!

nitsua60

@G.Moylan Is that the one where they end up fighting as slaves in an arena?

G. Moylan

@nitsua60 desert caravan. Deliver a statue to Parnast

@MarkWells and one season they don't change back. And that's it

@G.Moylan people can pray to the wisdom of the trees that don't change back. They aren't dead, they're just permanently trees now. Ancient and wise.

I'm taking this and running with it

BESW

21:50

A lot of cultures place great spiritual significance in trees. The Haudenosaunee consider the Tree of the Great Long Leaves the center of their Kayanerenh-kowa, which brings justice, peace, and civil authority. Chamoru people consider the trongkon nunu a favored dwelling of the taotaomo'na, who can bring inspiration and protection to the humble--or retribution for disrespect and selfishness.

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