TRPG General Chat

11:00 AM

"Don't feed the troll" doesn't work nearly as well as people give it credit for, and even in that theory, a couple of helpful comments probably isn't the reaction they want anyway.

It's probably wasted time in this scenario but there's a potential best case where they'll feel embarrassed for the troll attempt.

(And stop trolling one way or another, possibly by deciding they'd actually like to join the community)

BESW

To be clear, you the individual user doesn't have an obligation to do more than vote to close and flag for attention.

But you the individual user CAN choose to take a moment to be kind just in case. It's up to you whether you can spare a minute to write a comment.

And if you do have that minute, then the most effective comment will be a kind one.

vicky_molokh

11:14 AM

@BESW I'm simultaneously interested in trying it out, and fearful of it. Interested because it's a mechanic I haven't tried out before which may provide fun and benefits not experienced before. Fearful because even without malice, I expect misunderstandings to often result in 'good' results turning out not to be good at all. But I'm curious enough that I'd be willing to try it out with some of the GMs I know.

BESW

I don't think it'd work well if that handful of sentences were the entirety of the system.

It needs a framing context to provide structure and shared understanding of meaning to the stakes the choice implies.

vicky_molokh

Oh, of course it'd be more than a short paragraph.

BESW

Probably the easiest foothold is to identify a genre with an attitude toward success and failure which the rules would push toward.

vicky_molokh

But still, prior experience with discussing stakes and the like has been fraught with difficulties, so I'm preparing for more difficulties and misunderstandings despite the best efforts/intents.

Still would be an interesting experiment.

doppelgreener

It sounds like it would fit a type of narrative where success often gives you approximately what you intended, but also will have unforeseen quirks and side-effects — because the player may narrate a lot more than what you asked for.

BESW

11:25 AM

@doppelgreener Also, I carefully said "good" and "bad" rather than "success" and "failure." There's room for positive/negative outcomes beyond pass/fail.

A full implementation of the system would probably want to carefully define the bounds of that ambiguity within its sphere.

Imagine a game where you always fail, but the terms of the failure are negotiable.

(You are Inspector Gadget, or Mr. Bean.)

Or reverse it and explore the life of One Punch Man.

doppelgreener

Ooh, right.

"A good outcome is narrated" is very different to "a successful outcome is narrated".

vicky_molokh

@BESW Yeah, I see the fuzzy bounds as the most complex part of the concept.

BESW

A good way to limit that sort of open-ended-ness is to borrow from games like APFMT and have a narrative trigger for the dramatic choice: when you would narrate [thing], instead use [resolution mechanic].

(Which is, really, at the heart of most games but we don't think about it because it's buried in the default assumptions at the heart of traditional RPGs.)

In APFMT, the trigger is when you would describe an important choice or action. You have free narrative privileges up until your character would have agency in the situation.

At that point the resolution mechanic kicks in.

vicky_molokh

I need to get acquainted with those three games you suggested, but I'm mostly using my game-exploration-inspiration for Wrath of the Autarch these days (it seems to provide interesting ideas for the future of my campaign, despite radically differing as a setting).

BESW

I'm not sure you'd like them, I'm just personally curious how you'd respond to them.

doppelgreener

11:38 AM

@BESW That would help keep us away from "I walk down the stairs and--" "I'll narrate how you walk down the stairs" which would be malfunctional. (Probably.)

BESW

Each of them, in my opinion, achieves something that could be called "immersion," but each in a very different way with a very different effect.

vicky_molokh

(Sorry, AFK.)

BESW

@doppelgreener Unless "walking down the stairs" is preceded by someone staggering up the stairs covered in blood, grabbing you by the shoulders, and screaming "Don't go down there!" in which case the other participants in the test should very much ask "Are you sure?" (which is their trigger for invoking the mechanic if you forget).

It works largely because the framing of APFMT focuses the drama of the narration on a specific tension: you know each scene being narrated is leading up to an uncomfortable experience, culminating in something so bad that the character suffered amnesia to escape it.

Since everybody knows that, the question of "what is an important action" because very interesting and you can control a lot just by deciding which action IS important.

eg, the narrator can totally trigger the resolution mechanic for walking down some apparently innocuous stairs... which then tells everyone that the action IS important despite all evidence to the contrary.

That tension gives you a Hitchcockian tool: you've essentially announced there's a bomb under the table.

It's a real brain-bender of a game.

doppelgreener

I'm pretty impressed by the versatility there.

In the ability to declare seemingly innocuous things as potentially monumental events.

V2Blast

I woke up for a 7:30 am morning call that ended up taking less than 10 minutes

BESW

11:51 AM

@doppelgreener I know, right?

And then the resolution mechanic escalates that tension: when you would narrate an important action, you instead ask two other players what you did, and pick one answer to use as you continue your narration.

doppelgreener

@V2Blast h-hooray!

BESW

So you've declared an action important and then handed the action itself to someone else to determine.

You still get a choice, both in what the action is and which of two options to choose, but you've created a space where nobody at the table is capable of knowing what uncomfortable truth your scene will ultimately reveal until the reveal happens.

I think in my first game, one of the important actions was "I look down at the carpet."

V2Blast

@doppelgreener very un-hooray

I got less than 5 hours of sleep

(mostly because I couldn't fall asleep for like 45 minutes)

doppelgreener

D':

goodguy5

12:22 PM

@V2Blast I understand this. Though, I might have gotten 6

vicky_molokh

12:39 PM

@BESW After reading some messages below this one. Reminds me of some party story games . . . about goblins, I think. Where players get to interrupt each other and finish explanations what happened. Except not played for comedy, if I understand correctly. Would be curious to see excerpts of action, or even see it in actual play. Perhaps even participate.

I should learn more about it before making a conclusion about the game's likeability in my eyes.

kviiri

@vicky_molokh We used to play that game, but I never found it particularly fanciful because it was framed as a competitive game when it didn't really support that aspect that well

I may've liked it more if I had understood the concept of "just for the story" better back in the days

nitsua60

@goodguy5 I'll bet your reason is a lot more socially-acceptable than mine: "those card-magic videos I was watching didn't end until 1:30...."

BESW

@nitsua60 ...are you a minor character in Ant-Man 2?

nitsua60

I do remember, from those baby-days, what a huge difference there was between 5 or even just-under and 6 or just-over. For me, at least.

@BESW No, but if things keep going this way maybe I'll be ready for Ant-Man 7: Attack of the Dad Bod?

Derpy

@nitsua60 card magic or Magic cards? ^_^'

BESW

12:46 PM

I assume that by Ant-Man 7, Abby Ryder Fortson will finally be recognized as the rightful lead.

nitsua60

@Derpy Dude... MtG is so last millenium. (For me, at least.)

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