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12:22 AM
hey there @nitsua60
 
12:36 AM
from the news feed: https://www.montecookgames.com/announcing-arcana-of-the-ancients/

"Arcana of the Ancients will be your comprehensive guide to bringing science-fantasy into your 5th-edition campaign. This hefty, hardcover book will be filled with creatures, devices, character abilities, technologies, tips, advice, and adventure. All fully compatible with 5E."
 
Drawing a blank on something: I swear there is(/was) something in the D&D5e rules related to magic item use (and... rogues?) where the DC is 8 + proficiency, without a spellcasting modifier, because they've somehow gained access to something normally meant for spellcasters, but I can't for the life of me find where that text is. I think it's related to Thief's Use Magic Device and items that enable casting. Also can't remember if the 8 + proficiency thing was from a book or dev social media.
 
@CTWind Pretty sure it's in the DMG
and yes, Thief is given as an example
From here, Chapter 7 of the DMG, in the Spells subsection under Magic Items: dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/dmg/treasure#Spells
"A magic item, such as certain staffs, may require you to use your own spellcasting ability when you cast a spell from the item. If you have more than one spellcasting ability, you choose which one to use with the item. If you don't have a spellcasting ability - perhaps you're a rogue with the Use Magic Device feature - your spellcasting ability modifier is +0 for the item, and your proficiency bonus does apply."
 
Thanks. I was on that page, but ctrl+f'd "DC" because I thought it was in the text.
 
1:00 AM
A friend I've done RPGs with in the past is starting up their own RPG group and wants me to help them learn to GM.
 
@Shalvenay hiya
 
@BESW Have they said anything about system?
 
@nitsua60 you think we'll be able to talk a bit tonight?
 
@Glazius Lady Blackbird, InSpectres, Roll For Shoes, Golden Sky Stories, Cthulhu Dark, Masters of Umdaar, Atomic Robo, maybe Dog Eat Dog.
 
@Shalvenay prolly not, sorry. Just got off 6 hours on the road/visiting hospital, have to grade and get the kids to bed, &c.
 
1:09 AM
@nitsua60 ah darn :/
 
@Rubiksmoose To what level have you played, and have you enjoyed it so far?
@V2Blast Cool! Just in time to be better than the homebrew setting I was working on, probably...
 
@Shalvenay I feel like 90% of the interaction between you two in this chat is you asking if nitsua's free and nitsua being busy with a thing
:P
 
1:25 AM
@BESW That's a pretty big net to cast.
 
It's their favorite games.
And they don't know their new group really well yet.
 
@V2Blast :P
 
1:43 AM
I think you need an irl sending spell.
 
@BESW those are some fine systems to start with
Maybe not so much with Dog eat do or GSS for a group you don't know that we'll yet but the others are great for it
GSS is a little,... Vulnerable for it and Dog eat dog is a little,... Confrontational
At least as I understand it
 
hey there @KorvinStarmast
 
ahoy, catching up
how you doin'?
@trogdor my ears perk up, and I must now look up dog eat dog rpg.
 
@KorvinStarmast if I remember correctly it's the one about colonialism
And while I think it's extremely neat,... I wouldn't want to play it with people I didn't trust, or at least know a little
 
@KorvinStarmast alright here. pondering an incident from a while back (AI101's nav receiver mayhem) and ATC's handling of it, as well as a couple recent weirdos (including the runaway baggage cart at LAX that hit a plane when it was lining up for takeoff)
 
1:54 AM
@trogdor I just reviewed the premise, and I think you 'play with trusted friends' looks to be a smart call
@Shalvenay was that a go around, Indian airline?
 
@KorvinStarmast the former? yeah -- go around, then they had a bit of a time finding somewhere to land due to a 200' ceiling marine layer in the Northeast + not being able to shoot an ILS approach
 
@KorvinStarmast yeah,... And not only is it about that subject but it is set on an island
 
ATC basically had them do a VNAV into KEWR 4R while clearing them for the ILS
 
It could easily be used to tell one of at least 3 different messed up stories about,... Where I live
 
Shal, I may need to drop over to PPRuNe and see if they have a thread on that. There is usually some good insight on such occurrences there.
@trogdor I suppose that anyone who is Irish would have similar reservations. ;)
 
1:58 AM
which was kinda....sketchy in my book. (just listened to the ATC audio from the incident). better to either clear them for a published approach (there are no VNAV minima to KEWR 4R, so you'd have to clear them to 4L instead), or just send them straightaway to a place you know can get them in -- KPSM actually comes to mind, as they have GCA there
 
Maybe 4 if you count the chronologically separate times America colonized here
 
@Shal, let me get back to you, but there are some airlines who have a real internal culture problem with pilots diverting.
@trogdor weren't the Spanish first?
 
@KorvinStarmast yeah, the AI crew didn't seem to have trouble with diverting, they immediately were asking for weather for other airports after they realized that JFK wouldn't work
 
@KorvinStarmast indeed, that is correct, then the Spanish American war happened
First American colonization here happened after that
 
@trogdor For sure, pick the right group for the game.
 
2:00 AM
Then WWII happened and the Japanese occupation
And just a bit before the end of the war was the second American time
 
it's just that a) I'm still not sure what JFK departure control was thinking and b) if they were asking about places as far afield as Pittsburgh (which came up at one point), certainly getting on the horn to Portsmouth and seeing if they can get the GCA going wouldn't be out of the question....
 
@KorvinStarmast yep, that was my whole point basically
 
@trogdor I had a friend in high school who lived in Guam before he lived in virginia. His dad was in the Air Force and was also an airline pilot. A few years later, had a friend in college who was from Guam. But oddly enough, despite the four years I spent in the Pacfic fleet, I never ended up getting to see Guam. Always ended up somewhere else ...
@Shalvenay Capacity on ground/gates can be an issue if a lot of airports all of a sudden get weather ....
Approaches to minimums ... good fun if you don't mind a little tension in your life. :)
 
@KorvinStarmast I'm surprised you got sent to the general area and never got even a day here
 
@KorvinStarmast yeah, very true -- the weather situation in the NE was manageable for most planes on that day, just not AI101 considering they lost all their precision approach capability to 99% of airports
 
2:06 AM
For what it's worth Guam is a pretty big deal of an area for the Navy, and almost as much to the Air Force
 
@trogdor "we're kind of a big deal..."
=)
 
@nitsua60 lol I don't mean it quite that way
 
@trogdor yeah, deployment patterns and home/at sea cycles are an odd thing. Also never go to australia. So it goes. I spent plenty of time in the Atlantic fleet but never got further south than Curacao. Mostly I ended up in the Mediterranean, since that was where the busy stuff was happening at the time. (80's)
 
@trogdor I know, but from the little I know it's true =)
 
@nitsua60 lol
 
2:10 AM
@nitsua60 not sure if you ever visit SF&F, but if you do I'd like your impression on my answer regarding Shelob. It's been pretty active the last few days,and one answer was so good I sent a bounty (wcullen's) to it.
 
Guam is pretty great, but no one actually remembers it exists until news with our name on it comes up
95% of the time they get something wrong too
 
@KorvinStarmast I upvoted your answer. Good thread :)
 
@V2Blast Thank you, some of the other ones were, IMO, better. I like the range of inputs, though, lots of folks offering some good food for thought.
 
@KorvinStarmast Sometimes I'll lurk for a few days, but rarely stick with it. Will check it out, though.
 
@KorvinStarmast I upvoted other answers too :P
 
2:13 AM
@trogdor Given that I spent a few days on the USS Guam (an amphibious ship back in the 80's) I'll never forget Guam. And also I'll never forget my friend from college. And now you and BESW refresh my memory, so I'm good on that score.
 
@KorvinStarmast to be fair, I shouldn't expect literally everyone to remember we exist,... But considering this is a territory of the country a little bit of recognition of the situation that we are in, in terms of being a territory, would be nice from decision makers
 
@trogdor Yeah, the folks in the Virgin Islands, being much closer, probably get a better deal in that regard.
 
But I don't hold out high hopes for it
 
@trogdor When it comes to politicos, having high expectations seems to rarely work out. :(
 
Indeed
 
2:19 AM
I am reading a book about medieval knighthoods in the time of Henry II, and I get this eerie feeling that the political structures really haven't changed that much since then ... 1100's to 1200's.
It's an easy read called "the greatest knight" about a guy who served 5 different kings: William Marshal. The author tries to make that period more accessible to a modern audience. So far, doing a decent job.
The superstars of the NBA, in the 12th and 13th century terms, were knights who made their living going from tournament to tournament in France. Interesting parallel. Put's a new meaning to the term "free lance" for me.
anyhoo, off to take care of tasking from SWMBO.
 
Ben
2:44 AM
Ok, so got a challenge for people.
In the "Elf vs Orc" short story, the elf's name is translated to English, as "sings to trees"
We are creating a dark elf sorcerer, player character and we want to do the same thing.
She's gained her powers from a family curse (undefined as present). So if you wanna come up with a name, go for it :D
Extra points if you can come up with the elvish translation, and even a potential backstory as well
 
"howls with blood"
 
Ben
That's a strong start. I like it
 
Meddle not in showing up wizards in their own affairs, for when they say "if you like your fire magic so much why don't you marry it" they ain't messin' around.
 
Ben
I came up with "aura of fire", "the marked one", and "child of chaos" so far
"creates with fire"
Or "paints with fire"
 
 
1 hour later…
Ben
3:55 AM
d10
 
[applause] Very average. Good job.
 
4:11 AM
@MikeQ I wish I got praise for average work in school
:P
 
Ben
We've come up with the Sorcerer's Curse btw... It's called the "Black Star" curse
The affected family members were all born with these symbols on their bodies somewhere
 
@Ben How about the back of their left shoulder?
 
Ben
Haha, well I don't think she'll get the reference haha
Ok so the next step- translate "Sings with Stardust" into elvish
 
I know a black star is not the most uncommon symbol in the world, but every time I see it in use I can't help but think of this incredibly bizzare old ARG entrypoint video that I saw back in college.
 
4:37 AM
About to stream our D&D 5e actual-play podcast in around 20 minutes: https://www.twitch.tv/events/sxp1tn6GR3qeDZOOApMvaw

In a universe adjacent to our own lies a world known as Runia. This world, once peaceful and idyllic, is now threatened by a monstrous being from its prehistory. A group of adventurers known as Whiskey Company have risen up to do what they can to fight this entity known only as Nagat. They have trekked far across the mortal realms in search of the shards of Barrinoth, the Titan of Justice, in hopes of returning him to his full power.
 
Ben
5:26 AM
Also in case ppl haven't made the connection - that particular black star is a Bowie reference
 
hey there @ValleyLad, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
 
5:53 AM
0
Q: Is there a non-opinion-based way to ask a question about handling common situations not touched on by RAW?

Valley LadFor example in this question about damage when falling/diving into water in 5e, where it seems utterly clear there is no RAW, is there a way to query for an acceptable way of handling this that is neither a "shopping question" nor an "opinion-based" question? I'm interested not just for this f...

 
6:05 AM
@Ben That's why it looked familiar
 
Ben
Haha. The missus is a huge Bowie fan, so her Dark elf needed an appropriate reference
 
@Ben Star-shaped tattoo and named after a Bowie album... you're really tempting more JoJo references
 
Ben
"Linda Yassen Elenasto" which roughly translated to "Sings with Stardust"
@MikeQ Yeah the "markings" always appear in random places, and only on certain members of the family.
 
6:21 AM
Where's "Yassen" coming from?
 
Ben
apparently that's "with" or some such
 
 
3 hours later…
9:39 AM
Was reading a topic about D&D wish spell
The DMs here are sadistics psycopaths
(I mean, more than average DM)
 
10:18 AM
To me, adversarial gameplay always seemed like the raison d'être of Wish.
Whether it's the players trying to screw over their GM, or the other way around..
 
I don't disagree. I'm just nowhere near the degree of twistedness to be a decent wish DM :P
 
I think Wish isn't even really compatible with the kind of game DnD seems to be, otherwise
Thankfully few games ever gt to the point where Wish'd pose massive derailment potential :-)
 
10:50 AM
@kviiri usually both
 
Ben
11:31 AM
@BESW LLKoM feedback
1. A discard pile. Extra heads, regeneration, etc. If they get reshuffled the game may never end lol
2. Rule clarification - are special feature cards considered when determining the target (player with the "most cards"
3. Do manouvres that have a target (Paint the target) also have to be aimed at the player with the most cards?
4. Development suggestion: a drawing pad for those that want to draw their monster!
Oh, and for the collateral damage - make it at least double the player amount. So each person comes up with 2 areas of the island
Like @trogdor mentioned it's more likely to sink the island
 
@Ben it's already there actually, it's two per player
 
Ben
Ahh
Well then haha
I stand corrected
We played tonight and it was 2 players left before we sunk the island, bit we only had 4 sections
 
11:59 AM
Yeah double is a pretty good amount
I would have to play more than the handful I have of sessions to see if double isn't enough
Meanwhile if it's not consistently too few than increasing the number could turn some people off to it
 
Ben
I would potentially also limit this card game to 3-6 players... Potentially
8vw been testing it with an average of 4
 
I haven't really had the time or energy to look into LLtKoM but sinking islands sounds like fun
As long as it's not in the sadly-all-too-real climate change variety
 
12:26 PM
@kviiri it's pretty immediate as you smash stuff when another Kaiju steps out of the way
 
Hm, sounds somewhat similar to that, uh
King of Tokyo?
Fun concept, but I never really liked the gameplay that much
 
Ben
1:02 PM
@kviiri similar concept, different gameplay
I like King of Tokyo but I am terrible at it haha
 
It's not all bad, but I don't generally like games where players just drop off way before the game ends
 
Ben
Yeah.
This game changes that a lot and I've found that it really does balance it well
It focuses on the "strongest" targets first, so the "weakest" still have a fair chance to play
And I've even played a couple of games where they ended up winning
Everyone stays I'm the game, up to the final few rounds
 
1:48 PM
that weapon balance question is weird. The two weapons are so wildly different in power.

Usually, I'd expect them both to be OP garbage, or at least OP gems
I'm trying to figure out how valuable increased threat range is.
 
ugh I'm actually rethinking if that AC question is a dupe. They are actually pretty different when you dig down into the details even though the answers are generally the same.
 
link?
nm
 
0
Q: How does Dragon Hide interact with monk AC?

kyle louthanBefore I begin let me preface this with the following: I understand that mechanically speaking the barbarian and Monk armor classes are calculated 10 + Dex mod + Wis/Con depending on the class played. My conundrum is this: One of my players is playing a Dragon Born Monk who just got to level 4, H...

 
no, you're right the first time. it's a dupe
dragon armor is natural armor
it's weird to me that armor can lower your ac in those weird "set your ac equal to X" situations.
 
I thoughts so as well but now I think it isn't really. The natural armor is: 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your natural armor bonus and the AC from the feat is 13 + your Dexterity modifier
 
1:59 PM
"As a dragonborn, let me just put on this leather jerkin that makes me easier to hit"
 
I'm not sure how I can call them the same thing if nowhere does it say it is the same and the calculation is different.
 
fine then it's a dupe of mage armor with unarmored defense
definitely a dupe
 
@goodguy5 I added that to the dupe list
 
^_^
 
Alternatively, if you focus your question just on asking if allowing it would be game-breaking, this question probably would not be a duplicate and could be reopened. — Rubiksmoose 59 secs ago
 
2:06 PM
:thumbs_up: 👍
 
It might even be worth just editing out the dupe part and reopening it
 
2:24 PM
@goodguy5 Easier to hit in a way that inflicts damage. A hit/miss narrative need to be a whiff or strike. Parry, deflect, and rolling with strikes are efficient ways of avoiding damage even though the enemy is still "hitting" in the most literal sense.
 
that doesn't make it better to me
 
I mean the thing we have to accept here is the fact that the narrative is running up against a major game design feature: bounded accuracy.
Doesn't make it not bothersome, but at least the reason is known and largely seems sound.
 
I just mean that AC sources are "instead of" rather than "minimum of"
 
@goodguy5 Donning a garment or armor that doens't bend in quite the same way and makes some motions awkward increases the chance that the wearer doesn't properly dodge,deflect,parry, or absorb an attack.
 
@Ben but where were the Spiders?
 
2:32 PM
You only have to be a split second slow to not get inside the swing radius of a club or miss a parry on your greaves.
 
yea, I don't buy it.
 
@goodguy5 Okay. Combat damage isn't the weapon literally punctures the armor, but if in your model it is, then I can see the issue.
 
@goodguy5 Abstraction versus simulationism versus reality emulators.
 
@KorvinStarmast Reality sucks. A great deal of survival is serendipity armor or not.
 
I agree that HP is mostly not blood points.

It's "avoiding actually taking real damage and falling down" points.

And AC is the barrier that you enter from the attack being a non issue into having to expend some of your ability to not have it be a real life hit-hit.

But it just feels super silly that your body is covered in scales that are rendered useless by a thin layer of leather.
 
2:38 PM
@goodguy5 Scales protect you from a certain direction and kind of attacks. If you ever try to cut an animal with scales, you have to get under them. Usually and angle against the grain will do that, or manually lifting a scale etc.
 
@ColinGross If the armor is literally your skin, then this is pretty hard to justify.
 
@MarkWells You armor is your skin and underlying tissue. It is often strong in certain geometries and vulnerable in others.
 
@ColinGross if anything, you're strengthening my argument.
 
@goodguy5 Unless the armor your wearing restricts the motion of your skin so it is held taught in areas it should give or you're not able to easily move so that the attack is coming along the direction of your scales.
e.g. badgers and some dog breeds have "loose" skin that protects them from damage by allowing them to move and not be trapped by punctures and bites.
 
@goodguy5 All magic item balance questions are weird, because magic items are inherently unbalanced. Or rather, unbalancing. The only real way for a magic item to be balanced is if everyone in the party gets one of equal power.
 
2:44 PM
@Bloodcinder Well we have started at level 5 and I've only played one session. I like the idea but the big issue for the alchemist subclass so far is that all of the damaging effect are AOE and no way to exclude teammates. That might be thematic, but it is going to really start to be a pain in any enclosed space. I don't have my mechanical servant yet, but I am excited to get to it.
They also only have prof in simple weapons, so their non-AOE options are really severely limited.
 
It bugs me a little that we let people ask whether magic items are balanced without demanding a point of comparison. I mean, unless the item has major drawbacks, a character with a magic item is almost invariably going to be more powerful than one without.
 
@Rubiksmoose No "shaped charge" or something similar?
 
@goodguy5 Not that I've seen.
 
@Rubiksmoose The even worse part is that it's Dex save or no damage. For a lot of monsters, you'll find yourself useless.
 
@Miniman implicit comparison? or the "all things considered?" kind of assumption
 
2:46 PM
@Miniman Agreed. I mean the ultimate example of imbalance in magic items exists in RAW form: anything that grants wish(es).
 
@ColinGross What "all things"? Are we supposed to compare to every other item in existence?
 
@Miniman All the things you'd usually consider in your wise consideration? You could import universe, but that seems tedious.
I agree it would be better to have some direction or specifics the poster is concerned about.
 
We had an alchemist in our party, and the only part of the class that she actually enjoyed was her giant mechanical spider.
 
@Miniman Like Wild Wild West?
 
@ColinGross how would you balance something against a ring of wish?
@Miniman Yup that is the other huge thing.
 
2:48 PM
@Rubiksmoose Same way with deck of many things. You omit it.
 
@ColinGross I'm serious. There's no baseline to compare it to (other than "no items", which is a useless comparison).
@ColinGross No idea, but I suspect not.
 
@ColinGross No, but if the implicit baseline to compare against is all other magic items, you have to consider it. How can you do it?
@Miniman I don't know what beast I'm going with yet, but I'm really going to enjoy it.
 
@Rubiksmoose I did. I considered all the other magic items. It fit in with the deck of many things in the category of things not to include in a game.
 
@ColinGross lol but are you just being willfully stubborn here or are we actually having a miscommunication?
 
2:51 PM
Because this is not about what to include in a game, it is about creating magical items and how to balance them theoretically against the set of all other magic items including for DMs that don't think the same way you do about DoMT and wishes
 
@Rubiksmoose Probably the latter. Ring of infinite wishes or deck of many things or flying laser tanks with full damage immunity are all pretty quickly pigeon holed into the category of things not to include in a game.
 
@ColinGross Many DMs do not agree (though I do)
 
@Rubiksmoose Oh, there is no way to balance items that break rules and narratives. It's one of the indications that the people might enjoy a different gaming system or narrative altogether.
 
But the bigger thing is that we have no idea how OP thinks. If we accept the implicit point of comparisoni "all magic items" without anything specificified by OP we have no way to exclude those items.
 
@Rubiksmoose I don't know what question you're referencing.
 
2:54 PM
@ColinGross Right now purely hypothetical question about magic item balance without offering up a point of comparison
 
@Rubiksmoose I totally thought a deck of many things and pet dragons were cool as a kid. It was what we were fascinated with and the DM rolled with that. It didn't make for great story telling, but being like 8, we didn't care all that much.
@Rubiksmoose Implicitly, my comparison is what feats/abilities/class features does it step on the toes of, and what are the drawbacks that usually come with those. Mostly with an eye of are you going to be pushing in on the role of another character in the party.
 
@ColinGross So would you ban the Scimitar of Speed, then?
 
@ColinGross Me too. And the subject of so many "cool" D&D stories that I used to love as a kid and now just roll my eyes at those stories and memes and think how awful/ridiculous/broken/whatever it is.
 
@Miniman Nope.
@Rubiksmoose Yeah. They weren't very good stories. I think we all benefited from the myriad of other role playing systems that came after D&D that had a focus on story telling or better story telling.
 
@ColinGross For sure.
 
3:01 PM
@ColinGross Even though there are entire subclasses whose primary if not sole purpose is to grant the ability to attack with a bonus action?
Gah, 2am. I really gotta sleep.
 
@Miniman All classes can make attacks as a bonus action if they're wielding two light weapons.
Also, it's a stock magic item you'd only get from rolling on table H... which is pretty far up the list.
 
@Ben Did you run into this problem in the playtesting, or are you speculating? If you experienced it, please give me details about what happened. (while I value suggestions, the experiences are more important because I need context)
@Ben Yes. The target is about power, not longevity, so Special cards are included. Did you have gameplay experiences which suggested this might not work as intended?
@Ben I didn't intend Paint the Target to have a forced target. Would changing the word "target" in the text help clarify that?
@Ben I like the idea of drawing monsters, but I don't think I'm going to ask people to print special paper for it.
And yes, try it with two island features per player as the text indicates, I think you'll reach the win state more regularly.
 
3:17 PM
BESW what game is that?
 
Feb 7 at 23:38, by BESW
Long Live the King of Monsters! card game: prototype 0-1 for playtesting (Google Drive PDF download; cards print double-sided)
I need to do a new iteration of the document....
 
@Rubiksmoose Pretty much this. And ok, lots of actually cool DnD stories are also about, but many-a-times it's something the group managed to engineer by working their way around the system's limitations, not something the system really supports or helps happen
 
3:40 PM
@Miniman Note the difference between infringing on another player character, versus infringing on another class or mechanic
 
3:54 PM
Could someone edit in the DNDBeyond link into this question instead of the fanwiki link? I think Healing Word is part of the SRD, so there's probably no issues with copyright, but it's still probably better not to link to unofficial sources: What is the best way to nerf healing word?
 
@Xirema Got it. Good catch.
 
@ColinGross Thank you.
 
I feel like that question is a non-question though. I think that youtube channel has some good content, but it's pretty click-baity
 
4:10 PM
@ColinGross I mean that answer would be entirely valid
 
4:34 PM
@Miniman (It bugs me almost every time I see the word "balanced." But I try to hold it in.)
 
@nitsua60 Most homebrew items can be balanced if you place them on a flat, level surface
 
@MikeQ Challenge accepted.
 
> Sphere of Roundness. This object is perfectly round, and its weight is distributed uniformly. It can be used as a sphere.
Obviously this item is unbalanced if the user plane shifts to an inclined plane
 
@MikeQ Actually, a uniform weight distribution would make it easier to balance a sphere on a flat, level surface, I think.
Maybe "weight distribution changes every X rounds".
 
@Yuuki There are no level surfaces on the elemental plane of inclined planes
Or the elemental plane of air falling
 
4:47 PM
@MikeQ What are they inclined to do?
But also, every surface (of which there is only one) is flat and level on the elemental plane of ink-lined planes.
 
@Yuuki It's actually one of the circles of hell, reserved for particularly sinful civil engineers
 
@Rubiksmoose Memba how cool a dungeon was when you rolled on a DMG table to see what monster was in every room and hallway?
 
@MikeQ "You must convince a neighborhood to accept permitting for this... NUCLEAR PLANT! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!"
 
@nitsua60 Man those halcyon days. (ughhh)
 
"Okay, we got past the ogres and remorhaz, maybe this side-room is a place we can just rest... uh-why's a mummy just standing here?"
 
4:54 PM
@Yuuki If the nuclear plant is built on an inclined plane, then the resulting current in the electrical grid will have the wrong phase angle
 
@nitsua60 "Darn he must have heard the bard. She's had the sniffles for the last few day, it must have heard her coffin."
 
@MikeQ I'm pretty sure you can fix that by using three-phase power.
(Ducks explosion of @Shalvenay's head.)
 
But yeah I've actually been really disillusioned with all the D&D memes and stories lately. Maybe I'm just old and crotchety lol
Even the memes swinging against the grain of the old memes still manage to not be entertaining.
 
Welcome to the lawn! We've got a nice porch overlooking it stocked with rocking chairs =)
 
Like for a while it was super cool to tell stories about what happens when DM lets the player make a ridiculous roll and roll a 20 which then proceeds to somehow allow the whole universe to bend around allowing this absurd reaction. (most of them ignoring the fact that skill checks cannot crit and that DMs shouldn't allow players to roll for something they aren't prepared to have succeed.
Then the counter memes I've seen recently have been about canny DMs allowing similar rolls (for some reason) and then when the player rolls high gives smarmy reasons equating to "nothing happens". Which irks me because a good DM should 1) not allow ridiculous rolls and waste table time in most cases (silly lighthearted tones aside). 2) should really attempt to allow things to fail forward in an interesting way (despite D&D being terrible for enabling this mechanically)
 
5:01 PM
Here's a wild theory: The rules themselves are meant for wargame consistency rather than fun, and the fun arises from human-generated improv and occasionally breaking the rules
3
 
@nitsua60 oooo rocking chairs! Are they nice and creaky?!
 
Stop starring my common sense! It sets a dangerous precedent of listening to me.
2
 
no
 
@MikeQ I'm pretty sure that is a theory that is superbly well supported by evidence lol
 
@Rubiksmoose Yes, but you have to provide your own shotgun. If you're into that kind of thing.
 
5:03 PM
@nitsua60 Well I don't have one of those, so I'll just bring alcohol shots instead. Basically the same right?
 
@Rubiksmoose This is the number 1 thing I think I've tried to improve about myself as I've matured as a DM.
 
@Rubiksmoose Technically it's not universally applicable. Certain groups genuinely enjoy the raw number-crunching and looking up the rules. As much as I'd rather watch paint dry, it would be incorrect for me to call it badwrongfun.
 
Though, the one thing I do continue to purposefully "waste" table time is non-existent random encounter checks.

I tell them to roll a d12 and if I wanted a "random" encounter, then I put one in.
 
Or, sometimes, the hanging out that accompanies the excuse of raw number-crunching and looking up the rules.
 
@nitsua60 I often think that sometimes people confuse or at least conflate these two things.
 
5:06 PM
For me a crunchy system is kinda like playing bridge. There's a part of me that enjoys the puzzle of playing bridge, but a lot of me just likes the people that I tend to play bridge with, and bridge is as good an excuse as any to hang out.
 
Not that I doubt people can enjoy crunching numbers. I was there and very much enjoyed it when I was in school. Or at least I think I did. It is really hard to separate what enhanced the fun and what simply didn't kill the fun.
Tangent: Has anybody here played/run Paranoia? I'm interested in hearing anybody's table experiences, bad and good, with the game. Considering running it for my group but want to hear any advice/warnings/pitfalls/etc. that people might have encountered.
I'm not entirely sure I understand the way people are voting here: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/141576/…
It seems like a case of "up to the DM" being equated with POB. am I missing something?
 
5:30 PM
How much XP do I get for killing chat?
 
@Rubiksmoose Depends on the number of participants
 
I think I lean on the other side of this. Not the "I love number crunching!" part/not "I'm here for the game, not my friends", but I still get a heck of a lot of enjoyment out of working within a rules system to build something I like & that feels sufficiently unique. Granted, there are degrees of that. If the rules are too loose, I don't feel like the attempt to build a character is actually a challenge. Too tight and I don't feel like I've really had input to make the character 'mine'.
But it also means I care about the rules being applied/being consistent, because if the game is significantly different than the conceptions I built my character under, it kind of deflates the enjoyment of the feeling that comes from a build 'working'.
 
I suspect there isn't two sides to this but a spectrum. And I think where I fall on the spectrum is highly context-based and changes with time.
@CTWind out of curiosity have you ever played any of the rules-light(er) games? Lighter than 5e for example.
 
Yeah. I mean, an extreme is also the person who enjoys attempting to specifically break a game with their builds. I don't like crossing that bridge. I prefer my stuff to not require arguing.
@Rubiksmoose Mostly heavier, really (3.5/4e). I've touched on Fate and seen some other games played (dungeon world/apocalypse world), they didn't seem as much my thing. Currently in a Savage Worlds (Super Powers) game for the first time, still evaluating that system. Completely went in blind on it.
 
@CTWind ah ok, well it seems like you are well within the realm of what I was getting the impression you seem to like. I would be curious to see how you would feel about something like PbtA.
 
5:40 PM
So one thing I've realized is I generally like games where the limit of my input is what my character can directly do/say/etc. I actually like not having further narrative input beyond that (beyond, like, backstory stuff, anyways)- something like Fate where you also have a lot of input on the scene and world around you kind of breaks some level of immersion for me.
 
Ah! Yeah that is really good to know about yourself. I don't think you would be a fan of most PbtA systems either then.
On the other hand, I do always recommend trying it once if you ever have the chance. You might find that you enjoy multiple types.
 
5:56 PM
Yeah. And certainly if my friend groups switch to one, I'll be giving it another shot. Just wouldn't be something I'd lead the charge on switching to.
 
Makes sense for sure. A good reason to be happy for the diversity of RPG games we have the privilege to have available
 
@nitsua60 I think a major factor is the player engagement, and how they're interacting with the game. Dunno if there's an a priori rule, but it's visible a posteriori.
 
Leave my posteriori out of it!</groucho>
 
e.g. If the player's interaction is limited to 1. building a character and 2. showing up to roll dice, then I'd likely say they're not very engaged with the game or other players.
 
though players like CTWind don't seem to think that way.
 
6:10 PM
Right, and as I said before, it would be wrong for me to say it's universally unfun
But for me, if a monkey or AI or sufficiently advanced python script could replicate everything I can do in the game, then I'm likely to become disengaged
 
@Rubiksmoose To be fair, I do roleplay as well, I'm not just in it for the mechanics. I just still get a lot of enjoyment out of the building & mechanical bits. I don't mean to imply that I only am there for combat and skill checks.
 
@CTWind oh yeah and I didn't mean to imply that I thought you did!
I think players are just fine with different levels of interactivity. I love the fact that players can edit the world and contribute to scenes and world-building in PbtA. Like seriously it was one of the coolest collaborative creative experiences. It was a blast. However, it sounds like, to you, such a thing would be actively off-putting (something I find very interesting since I've never come across that perspective before!)
 
@Rubiksmoose I can sort of understand it. Players may expect the DM to provide a comprehensive and fleshed-out world. Asking the players to worldbuild may feel like giving them an unfinished world; some players may not appreciate that kind of burden.
 
6:25 PM
@MikeQ Yeah I can definitely see that point of view. If a 5e DM kept asking me to generate the stat blocks for the monsters I am fighting I would find that very un-fun. But that is because generating statblocks is not fun for me.
 
@Rubiksmoose I know players who prefer concrete, well-defined options. They like strategic gameplay, where they can make optimal choices. When given broad challenges, or asked to create something with loose criteria, there are too many options and too much room for dispute, and the player gets frustrated.
 
oh yeah me too.
In fact, I may have been that player at one point in my life.
 
That's along the lines of how I feel. I like exploring the unknown and seeing the world react to me. If I'm also shaping the world, it removes an important barrier between it and my character.
Similar for problem solving- if I can declare that there's something in the scene to help me solve a problem, or if I can define a punishment for doing it wrong, it's temporarily taking me out of the character's shoes to make that call. I'd rather just stay in them and solve the problem with the tools my character has. And I'd rather have it revealed by the GM what happens in this world when I screw up in that way.
 
6:47 PM
@CTWind Ah okay I may have misunderstood. I thought you meant being limited by a finite set of options; you meant having the limits of how the character can reasonably affect the world.
 
Yes.
Put another way: I'm interested in the story of what my character does in the world with the tools I've given them and the party they're alongside. I'm less interested in telling a story that happens to have my character in it. If that distinction makes any sense.
I think there's also an element of "My character is a variable introduced into a situation to change what normally would happen without them. If I'm changing things beyond my character, I'm not really testing what they're changing" to the psychology of it to me.
 
7:06 PM
@CTWind As though it lessens the impact of your choice to play that character?
 
@MikeQ A bit, yeah. Because I'm interested in how my character can change the world, but now the changes are not just 'things my character has done', they are 'things my character has done, and things I as a storyteller have the power to do'.
 
This might need closing as "too broad" until it gets separated into two or three questions. FWIW.
 
7:45 PM
@MikeQ That is the sort of thing that PC RPGs are great for.
 
8:41 PM
A whole lot of grammar nerds are about to burst a blood vessel with that Halo of Spores question.
 
8:55 PM
@Xirema can confirm
 
Ben
9:25 PM
@BESW not a problem, per se. But there was some confusion when a player replaced regeneration with another regeneration card
@BESW not particularly... The situation we ran into was one player had 2 specials, but only one body card left. It seemed perhaps a little unfair? But at the same time they perhaps did have more power than the rest of the players... I was uncertain about it
@BESW of course, not for the testing or anything. It's a final development addition :)
However the "describe your actions" really helped that game as well
And as for "paint the target", I think that it's clear enough. Most manouvres don't have a target, they're boosters. So that's how we played it.
 
Thanks very much for the feedback, I've got some major decisions to think about in terms of the game's design goals.
 
Ben
Oh, actually, speaking of manouvres... If you get attacked, and they miss multiple times, do you get to use your manouvres each time?
So, I attack, and miss, they use flight (+1d6 on next attack). Next persons turn, they attack, and also miss, the target can use flight again?
 
9:40 PM
Yes, because otherwise the collateral damage dominates the narrative.
 
Ben
Yeah cool. We did that. And by their turn they were rolling with 4d6! It was impressive :D
 
It's also tactical: don't attack the person with flight unless you have no choice or you're reasonably sure you'll hit.
 
Ben
It was just the luck of the dice haha. They didn't have any special defense bonuses
 
9:57 PM
One of the design challenges with this project is that the original game was designed to be intentionally capable of significant imbalance.
Over time I've mitigated some of that imbalance where it was making things less fun for individuals in the group.
But changing it to a card structure has made the entire system lean more toward intentional balance, and I'm struggling to find where I want to draw the line.
(Collateral Damage existed partly to reign in unhittable builds.)
 
Ben
10:39 PM
Well the glory of it is that it's all just up to the dice. :D I've seen rolls that were just all 1s, on 3 dice haha\
 

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