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6:02 PM
docs.google.com/document/d/… okay this is the sheet I made
@Gwideon Looks ready to play.
and I can reuse it when ever I make a character
also it's probably just me but this was a bit faster to put together than a Dnd character at least to me.
@Gwideon A bit. ^_^
The hours-long chargen is an oddity, in a sense
also I like that you have to have a clear idea of your character flavor wise. There are some dnd characters that are just a set of stats and gear and nothing else. That's harder to do here.
6:10 PM
@Gwideon Definitely see that, but the whole ideals/bonds/flaws/traits bit is where that stuff lives. Most folks just tend not to focus or use it :(
Well, from my PoV, even if the system side of chargen only takes up 10 minutes, that doesn't save much when making PCs for an actual campaign, because concept and background take from days to sometimes months of work.
@NautArch also that whole system is kinda limited and isn't super good at establishing flavor at least in my opinion.
@Gwideon It's an interesting question. I feel that there isa lot of power in those categories, but folks don't often use them. But more that a lot of DMs create combat situations where you have to play optimally in order to survive, so then allt hose traits are ignored during combat.
But watching you folks, it sesems Fate is more "this is my charactter, and here is what he can do" while 5e is "This is what he can do, and here is my character"
I recall being somewhat mind-blown when trying out Apocalypse World for the first time
Although I didn't know it was Apocalypse World quite yet, because I was just given the sheets and told it was Shadowrun :P
(or so I understood it. No one meant to mislead --- the GM had decided he'd want to run Shadowrun in a less crunchy system)
2 messages moved from Not a bar, but plays one on TV
i'll keep the general Fate stuff here
6:26 PM
Lots of systems offer more . . . Lego-ish customisation of characters.
I do like dnd but I’m thinking that fate might become a favorite of mine. It’s super customizable and um I would love to play it sometime. The core rule book does annoy me a little.
The stuff you need to know to fully understand character customization is spread throughout the book and that is one of my big pet peeves with rpg rule books.
You're aboard Zenith - the only orbital station above Azora. According to Jorj, your two targets are down there. You recall him telling you: "Oh come on, they can't be too far from one another - after all, they're on the same planet!"
As awkward as the job was, you needed money, and you didn't have better options. But after hitching a ride with the heavy trucker ship, you still need to find a way *down* there. Surely there are shuttle captains willing to make a quick credit, but there's of course an issue with that . . .
(Not if my above post is meant to be a serious teaser of a demo or whatever. Just felt an urge to make up and post some sort of thing involving the hooks given.)
@Gwideon noice.
It looks built with an expectation that the game will necessarily involve violent conflicts that will be resolved by shooting. If so, that's fine.
Bear in mind that unlike games like D&D, Fate does not have any preference towards violent encounters.
In D&D, fighting moves the story forward and advances your characters. Many problems are solved with some amount of fighting. If you are unsure what you need to do or how to move the story forward, look for a fight.
These aren't true of Fate. Fighting does not inherently do anything for advancing the story or the characters and doesn't necessarily accomplish anything at all.
Even when we come to physical blows, it may not involve a Conflict scene where we are trying to inflict stress and use attacks. We may also be using Contest or Challenge mechanics to physically overcome NPCs.
6:50 PM
@doppelgreener well I kinda picked shooting as my top skill based on the fact that I was going for a gunslinger archetype
@vicky_molokh also that's some pretty good writing.
sorry for being kinda slow
That's totally fair
It's entirely normal for a person's first fate character to be primarily combat focused
Also yeah, the hunt as I imagine it is likely to have lots of noncombat scenes.
The way Fate provides and wants other opportunities for character expression becomes clear in play
(My FATE characters seem to have a skill-wise leaning towards combat largely due to the way combats are resolved through more rolls of the same skill than Contests and of course even more than Challenges and regular Overcomes.)
I usually have at least one high combat-related skill too ofc
7:10 PM
thread hijack: Does anyone know if red dead 2 online is crossplay?
I don't think so.
7:52 PM
The number of games with multiplayer crossplay is vanishingly low.
Off the top of my head, I can think of FFXIV.
That might be it.
Or rather, that's all that I can recall.
There's probably others but I can't think of them.
It's fairly short, but I've got two friends on PS4s, so that opens up more possibilities of PC/PS4 only.
sony is kinda terrible when it comes to working with others
They've got more than I thought they'd have
true but alot of the big multiplayer games aren't
8:07 PM
Probably a lot harder to build cross platform support in those.
Maybe newer stuff will include it
as they can plan for it
@NautArch no not really. The ps4 and xbox one are so similar architecturally that not many changes need to be done when porting. heck the switch has crossplay with the xbox when ti comes to several big games and it's the most different when it comes to architecture so literally the only reason the only reason there's less crossplay on ps4 is the fact that sony doesn't want to play nice with other companies.
heck before fortnite went offically crossplatform when it comes to the ps4 they literally turned it on by accident in an update.
sorry being a little ranty
@Gwideon A little indeed --- I mean this chat has seen much worse :>
I think we're overall very civil about it though.
And besides, you have a very good point
@Gwideon ha! did not realize! Then yeah, it should be more pervasive.
Now let me go grab my pitch fork. Your rant has mobilized me! :P
I have never been a massive Free Software advocate despite liking several open source projects but I must say, the recent developments across the industry have made me understand many of those points
8:17 PM
(un)fortunately, the only major game developer I know is currently working for Epic.
IIRC, a lot of recent crossplay changes made on the part of Sony are because Microsoft actually followed through on its threat to implement crossplay with the Switch.
to me atleast the console wars are a thing of the 90s. working with a competitor isn't always a bad thing in fact (as we've seen with banjo being in smash) it can be quite a good thing and can bring attention and goodwill to your company from places you wouldn't normally be able to reach.
anyways I'll be quiet.
Economically it doesn't work out. What Microsoft wants is for people to buy games licensed by them, not games licensed by Sony; even if they're the same games.
In order to do that, people need to buy the games for their console.
But if my friend has Xbox, and I have Playstation, and the game she wants me to play has crossplay, then I have no reason to buy Xbox; or at least the Xbox version of the game.
But if the game's multiplayer is console-locked, then I can't play with her unless I get the Xbox version (and perhaps the Xbox console)
@Gwideon C'mon Gwideon. Our Be Nice policy applies to ourselves, too:)
See also the reason console exclusives exist.
Thank you for reading, this has been Xirema's "Reasons Capitalism is Bad", Season 6, Episode 72.
8:34 PM
I honestly think the goodwill earned by allowing crossplay on big crossplatform releases outweighs the cost. game companies are built on the backs of their fans and if they don't please their fans they ultimately lose (unless you're EA apparently). this is part of why I think Microsoft is doing a better job with their long term strategy than sony is.
though I do think they are partially doing this because currently xbox isn't the most popular brand of console (that title belongs to playstation).
@Gwideon Just googled it, they have quite the market share. More than 2x as many consoles sold compared to xbox one.
40 million XBOX Ones and 102 million PS4s
@NautArch yep and when you're in a position like that you need to make return customers and you make return customers by giving them what they want.
@Gwideon ALthough on the flipside, you could also say a company would more likely keep doing what they're doing because it's working.
@Xirema Ooooh.
@V2Blast Based on the discussions around it, it isn't as OP as I originally thought. But I wonder about a hexblade doublescimitar wielder.
8:49 PM
@NautArch I was talking about microsoft in that case not sony.
@Gwideon Well, in that case, you look at what the bigger person is doing and try and emulate it. Same problem :(
@Someone_Evil Agreed, it doesn't need its own tag. Generally the and tags are for questions about the settings themselves, not just for content from books about those settings. The tags describe the question itself, not the book the content in the question is from.
@NautArch I own everything on D&D Beyond (...well besides the map pack I guess). The DDB folks have offered to keep my Legendary Bundle updated due to all the errors and such I report to them :D
@V2Blast oh nice! I won't be kicking you out of the group ever :D
@NautArch but that is inherently unsustainable as if you can't do it batter then you're seen as an inferior copy. The most successful strategy in my opinion is to carve out a niche and do the best you can to serve that niche
@Gwideon That very much depends on the size of the niche. And in the popular gaming market, casting a wider net would be better. Sony seems to have figured that out, MS needs to figure out how they've oone it and do their version of it. But trying to find a smaller niche is unlikely to be a good business decision for them.
8:53 PM
@NautArch lol
As long as someone else has a Master Tier subscription, enjoy! ;)
@V2Blast I think I've got that one.
Oh also, the D&D vs. Rick and Morty box set/adventure came out the same day as Eberron: Rising from the Last War
so that's on there too
have yet to look through either one though
ooh, i'll definitely be looking at that
@NautArch true
And big companies don't pivot quickly, either.
if at all
9:07 PM
@V2Blast that's awesome!
9:48 PM
@Rubiksmoose it gave me pleasure to offer aramis another updoot. he's provided a lot of good content over the years
@NautArch great news
@vicky_molokh wish I could drop you some rep for that walk through you just helped G with. Well played. :)
@KorvinStarmast Careful, because I can be blunt enough to point out ways you can do that. ^_^
But barring that, seeing people explore the variety of the hobby is interesting on its own.
10:05 PM
@vicky_molokh Yes, I know a few ways I can - and if I do in the future it will hopefully be transparent to the user.
@KorvinStarmast doot doot
Since Fate is a subject in chat again, I'll throw this out there again:
Q: RPG.SE Chat Fudge dice: a userscript for Fate & Fudge games

doppelgreenerRPG.SE's chat rooms support dice rolls as an easter egg. This script will convert d6 rolls that you see into Fudge dice, using the ordinary conversion rules: 1–2 = minus, 3–4 = blank, 5–6 = plus. You can enable or disable these dice on a per-room basis. It will remember which rooms you picked. Y...

10:31 PM
@NautArch Turns out there is an unambigous way for your Tavern Brawler to get 'magical attacks'; an Infernal Banner.
Oh, does 5e have banners too? That was one of my favorite item types in 4e.
There's a specific magic item in a relatively recent adventure, not a general mechanic/type.
How did the 4e ones work though?
They're a non-slotted magical item carried by one of the party members, who can use an action (type of action depends on the banner) to "plant" the banner on the field in their own square or an adjacent one.
The banner remains there for the rest of the encounter or until someone uses a standard action to remove it while standing in its square or adjacent to it. The banner does not change the square's status in terms of being able to move or attack through it.
(Usually, banners are encounter powers so if it's taken down, it can't be used again during that scene.)
And while it's planted, the banner creates an effect on an area around itself--usually a 3 to 5 square radius.
Effects vary from "pushes all opponents 1 square away from the banner" to "all allies targeted by healing effects heal 1 hp."
Banners are great because they're portable terrain-modification effects that the party can use in order to benefit their own style of play and change the shape of the fight.
There are couple of effects in the same wheelhouse (placeable auras), but not themed around banner-type items. Sounds really interesting, though I'm not sure how much of the coolness is lost in the lower tactical-ness of 5e (as I understand it)
Yeah, that's probably a factor.
Battle standards were especially useful for our group because we had one character who tended to find his standard action options kinda... lacking.
10:46 PM
Though it might be an interestingly themed way to give those kind of effects to non-spellcasters. The homebrew mind starts...
He often cannibalized his standard action for a minor or move action anyway, so he carried the banner around for us. And since he was a warlord/shaman with the leader role, it made a lot of sense narratively too.
Also, I always made sure the banner's emblem was something relevant to the world and the story and the characters, so that fighting under it was a statement.
Oh, and mechanically they made for some really amusing opportunities to piggyback effects.
Since they're item powers, they activate any triggered effects by the character who uses them.
For example, there's a feat which says "any time you heal a target for at least 1hp, they can make a save against one effect."
Drop a Battle Standard of Healing, which heals 1 hp to all allies in range whenever any ally in range uses a healing surge (healing surges are involved in almost all healing effects in 4e).
Now every time you heal someone, you also grant everyone a save.
And if you've got a healer's brooch, which increases the amount of all your heals by its enhancement bonus, well. Now you're doing 2 to 7 hp of healing AND granting a save to everyone, every time you use one of your major healing effects.
Or the time we had a "pushes all enemies 1 square" banner, and gave it to the fighter who'd stacked every possible "when I push, I get +distance to the push" effects he could find.
Suddenly every enemy within 3 squares of the banner was knocked back something like seven squares, and made prone, and maybe slowed (speed reduced to 2 squares).
If anyone needed an example, see above for why folk love 'crunch' in their rpgs
Yup, we had a LOT of fun with the crunch in 4e. Partly because it... worked? You could do a lot of really cool stuff but it was actively difficult to break the system completely.
But the complexity which let us do that, also meant that sometimes one encounter could last three or four hours.
So the story crawled.
One reason we liked Fate by comparison was that we could do equally cool things without taking hours to legislate them.
11:11 PM
Crunchy systems can create situations that are mechanically interesting - like discovering some combination of features that's especially powerful or amusing - but for the most part, the excessive "lag" due to complicated rules resolutions can make the game feel tedious and boring
I really really liked a lot of the awesome epic stuff 4e encouraged us to do.
I really really got tired of how long it took to do it.
That's one reason I like Masters of Umdaar, specifically. It has much of the same "do awesome pulp fantasy nonsense" aesthetic/purpose, but with much less overhead.
And I think War of Ashes will do something similar--though with more overhead, but still less.
11:58 PM
We tend to play longer-term campaigns (50-100 sessions), and the granularity provided by some Crunchy systems can show through over time. They are not usually suited to shorter term games, but if my Rolemaster Character is buying a Rank of Swimming every level (+3 to the d100 roll per rank! Woo-hoo!), after 10 levels, alongside an increased Agility (another +5!), that's a +35. Moving from a poor-to-mediocre +20 to a useful +55.
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