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KorvinStarmast
KorvinStarmast
12:17 AM
@Shalvenay when prepared by a cook who knows what she/he's doing, it's pretty darned good.
 
V2Blast
V2Blast
@DavidCoffron Late response, but yeah - some of the headers on DNDBeyond have anchor links but others don't. I point the link to the right section when possible, but often when I check the source it doesn't have an an id attribute, as Carcer said
Also, question: I recall it being mentioned in meta somewhere that we should avoid single-word "yes"/"no"-type headers, because often there are multiple questions in the "question" body itself (sometimes directly opposing one another) and it's not clear which question is being addressed - and sometimes the title asks one question while the body asks the opposite. Can someone find this meta and confirm that I'm not crazy? (...well, I could be crazy anyway, but that's not important right now.)
Never mind, I found it
15
A: Are questions with title opposite to text ok?

doppelgreenerIt's not ideal when that mismatch exists, and you're right to call it out that it makes the question confusing. They ought to be edited to be brought in line. Answers should still preferably say more than Yes. at the beginning, so that we know exactly what they're saying yes to. Yes, X happens. ...

 
 
2 hours later…
nitsua60
nitsua60
2:29 AM
Sup, peeps?
(I've barely been around for a few days--any drama I missed?)
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
@nitsua60 nothing major I know of, but I haven't been around that much either. I take it things are looking better for you time-wise at least?
 
nitsua60
nitsua60
@Shalvenay A touch, yes. Saturday should be a go. (As long as none of my sheeple end up in the hospital, that is!)
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
@nitsua60 nods
 
 
1 hour later…
trogdor
trogdor
3:49 AM
@nitsua60 just the drama class we all took and can't tell you any details about :P
 
 
3 hours later…
Youjay
Youjay
6:45 AM
Hey all, according to the description for "Wish" it says there some thing as a lich's life drain Attack, but I can't see that in the monster Manuel? Am I blind or does it not exist?
 
trogdor
trogdor
7:18 AM
Like, you found lich but it doesn't have that attack?
 
Youjay
Youjay
7:56 AM
@trogdor like in the monster Manuel under 'Lich', it never says the words "life drain attack" or even just "life drain"
 
kviiri
kviiri
Again I find myself deleting one of my answers because the goalposts are moving :(
@Youjay Probably something lost in the editing :)
Also, it's Monster Manual ("manual" meaning a handbook). Manuel would be a masculine name, commonly associated with Hispanic cultures :>
 
trogdor
trogdor
8:27 AM
@Youjay more or less what I meant yeah
 
Youjay
Youjay
@kviiri mi humbelest apogogiss four botchering thr speeling oof tat werd
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Youjay No need to apologize, I just want to help people avoid possible ridicule from using possibly embarrassing misspellings in some contexts
I remember when Civ V's last expansion Brave New World was coming. There was a forum thread where they collected reveals about the expansion. The OP of that thread had misspelled "ideological tenets" as "ideological tenants" and that went contagious fast, to the point where the misspelling was way more common on the forum than the correctly spelled word
 
Helwar
Helwar
@kviiri the reddit for Octopath Traveller was, for the longest time, r/octopathtraveler with a single L. They made the swap just before the game came out, but it was already too late for my brain. Now I knever know wich one is the correct spelling
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Helwar The double l thing is really hard for me
 
Helwar
Helwar
@kviiri why?
 
kviiri
kviiri
8:40 AM
@Helwar Dunno, it's there for many words but somehow feels very un-Englishy :P
 
Helwar
Helwar
@kviiri oh I get it. The word Traveller is worst of all, because it's accepted both as Traveller with LL and Traveler with L. I think one of these is the brittish version
So you feel like LL is un-Englishy? Huh, I get what you mean but I feel the opposite. English is that language that likes to double letters for no reason. Like, Letters... it would be exactly the same sound as "leters", or "opposite -> oposite", or "quill -> quil", etc...
you just double up on the letters 'cause English
 
kviiri
kviiri
I mean, in that particular context... English usually doesn't make terminal consonants longer before suffices
Except when it does .P
Eg. "eat" becomes "eater" but "run" becomes "runner".
 
Helwar
Helwar
@kviiri oh.... I have a knack for english, I do not know why, but things feel "right" or "wrong" to me. Maybe because I'm just used to listen/read it properly. But don't even ask me to analyze the grammar if you don't want me going blank :P
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Helwar Me too, but then there's these few things that don't really find their way into my brain :)
 
Helwar
Helwar
but yeah, random rules
 
kviiri
kviiri
8:48 AM
My mother tongue doesn't have articles, definiteness or grammatic gender. Learning foreign languages is weird at times
 
Helwar
Helwar
what's your first language?
 
kviiri
kviiri
Finnish
 
Helwar
Helwar
/* Brain struggling to pinpoint that in the map. Don't tell me, let me figure it out */
done
hum, I know next to nothing about Finnish, I don't even know how it sounds
 
kviiri
kviiri
We don't have the "a/the" distinction which is in both Germanic languages (like English and Swedish) and Latin languages (like French), many of my schoolmates struggled to absorb when "a thing" becomes "the thing"
@Helwar Elvish, except spoken without passion or intonation
 
Helwar
Helwar
except spoken without passion <- this killed me
 
kviiri
kviiri
8:52 AM
(Finnish doesn't have intonation either - it's quite interesting how in French a statement can be transformed into a question by simply saying it in a different tone!)
 
Helwar
Helwar
@kviiri most languages can do that
:P
 
kviiri
kviiri
Yea :P
Swedish has a whopping five noun classes (possibly more and they just taught us five)
 
Helwar
Helwar
what do you mean by noun classes?
 
kviiri
kviiri
Grammatic genders, like masculine and feminine in French (and Spanish too, iirc?)
 
Helwar
Helwar
well, yeah, in Spanish we have masculine and geminine nouns
but wouldn't that be noun genders? instead of classes?
 
kviiri
kviiri
8:55 AM
Maybe? I'm not sure tbh
 
Helwar
Helwar
(also adjectives are modified by the number and gender of the subject)
 
kviiri
kviiri
Using "gender" feels funny when there's a bunch of them and they're not associated with human genders
But it's probably still correct
 
Helwar
Helwar
i guess so, yes
 
Carcer
Carcer
it is the linguistic term
 
kviiri
kviiri
In Swedish the main distinction is between en and ett words, and en words are further divided into three genders based on their plural form and ett words into two
 
Carcer
Carcer
8:58 AM
I expect it is derived from analysis of languages where the genders are masculine and feminine
 
kviiri
kviiri
Yea, quite ikely so
I wonder how old is linguistics as a field
 
Carcer
Carcer
also, today's shaping up to be a good day, I was gifted with a perfect opportunity to bust out the classic "people die when they are killed"
 
kviiri
kviiri
Who were the first people who started examining the language they spoke as an object that can be analyzed?
 
Carcer
Carcer
undoubtedly will have happened independently in lots of places
I wouldn't be surprised if the first people who did so are pre-recorded-history
 
Helwar
Helwar
@kviiri I dunno. I thank them for fixing up languages as much as possible, and I curse them for forcing me to learn how to analyze grammar
 
kviiri
kviiri
9:07 AM
@Helwar Linguistics has useful spin-offs in computer programming :)
 
Helwar
Helwar
@kviiri it does. IT also screws you over when you mix up the 9 different languages for programming different things that you know and don't use the proper grammar in the one you are using at the moment
but well, we need grammar analysis to solve D&D disputes so I'll take all my suffering at class when I was younger as training for good DMing
 
Carcer
Carcer
oh, re: earlier linguistics
as a native english speaker I would've read "leter" pronounced like "leeter" not "letter"
I'm not really au-fait with the terminology but the double-consonants are like a harder stop rather than follow through
e.g. hello vs. helo - "hell-oh" / "hee-lo"
 
kviiri
kviiri
9:41 AM
Finnish customs office destroying illegally imported alcoholic drinks: twitter.com/JannePoikonen/status/1045545851521839104
 
Carcer
Carcer
9:57 AM
@kviiri I was fully convinced that was leading up to an ending where they were pouring it into some guy's face
 
Anaphory
Anaphory
@kviiri That we know of? And on what level?
(I really like it that there's so much linguistics discussion in this chat.)
@Carcer Makes sense, according to the existing but exception-rich rules of English pronunciation.
@Helwar “Noun classes” is the generic term. “Grammatical gender” is a synonym for historical reasons, because this kind of analysis started with Indo-European languages, which generally have something based on a masculine/feminine/neuter system.
 
Carcer
Carcer
@Anaphory side note: unending hatred for people who try to argue "my masculine/feminine language gender is obviously totally unrelated and has nothing whatsoever to do with human genders!"
 
Anaphory
Anaphory
@kviiri Hm, different morphology classes in not necessary the same as different noun classes. Noun class generally means that some other words differ based on the noun class; the morphology within the noun class may sub-group differently.
@Carcer I know that for my native German, I have an intuition that the noun classes are related to human genders. Also, the historical reasons are obviously related. I could imagine cases where the system is of far eroded that it is de-facto, in the now, disconnected from human genders (cf. German “Mädchen”, which is “girl”, but neuter because diminuitives are always neuter – if this went further, the categories might become lost).
@Anaphory Confer latin, which has 3 noun classes, which govern the forms of adjectives and demonstratives, but 4-or-so major morphological patterns (declensions) of nouns, which largely align with noun classes, but not completely
 
Carcer
Carcer
10:21 AM
@Anaphory the issue is mostly with people who refuse to accept that language shapes thought - when studies show that in grammatically gendered languages speakers tend to associate masculine/feminine stereotypes with objects based on their gender
 
Anaphory
Anaphory
@kviiri I think the first documented description of a language as object of study is Sanscrit. Probably a few hundred years BC? Cuneiform and hieroglyph scribes learnt some tables, as well, I think, so there was some awareness of that, but Sanscrit is known for early grammars taking it apart and describing it formally.
 
kviiri
kviiri
10:36 AM
@Carcer Me too but I guess they left it offscreen
@Anaphory Hm, in that sense I guess only en and ett are actual classes (since there's adjective concord with them)
Eg. "a small mouse" is en liten mus but "a small house" is ett litet hus
(disclaimer: I only did the mandatory Swedish classes and while I don't have the stereotypical Finnish aversion to Swedish language, I'm by no means an expert!)
 
Anaphory
Anaphory
> The actual evidence for a gender or noun class system lies outside the noun itself, as it is only reflected by way of agreement in the words associated with the given noun
(Velupillai: “An Introduction to Linguistic Typology”, p. 165)
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Anaphory This is a good observation that I'll try to remember :)
 
Anaphory
Anaphory
@kviiri I had to look it up to be sure, but I had the book here :)
 
kviiri
kviiri
I have this Russian friend who was trying to learn Finnish for his citizenship exam, and trying to explain some things in Finnish made me question the sensibility of my language :P
 
Anaphory
Anaphory
@kviiri You would have had that feeling no matter what your L1 is. It's not like any language is sensible.
 
kviiri
kviiri
10:46 AM
@Anaphory Quite true, although he did switch to Swedish which has been way easier for him (this is one of those occasions where I love living in an officially bilingual country)
One thing that I still haven't figured out why is a particular use of the partitive case. Partitive usually denoted partialness, or unspecified quantities, or open-endedness, a bit like some does in English. But for whatever reason, the singular partitive case is also used to express concrete numbers of things. Singular, no matter the amount
 
Helwar
Helwar
@kviiri your conuntry is officially bilingual, but you are not required / expected to know both languages?
 
Carcer
Carcer
@Helwar the whole point of being officially bilingual is that people should be able to get by using either
 
Helwar
Helwar
hummm but for that everyone should know both. If I just know language A and go to a store and the clerk only knows language B the system crashes
:P
 
Carcer
Carcer
you can get by with mime
charades
but I mean you can use any government service and expect that they will be able to cater to both languages
 
Helwar
Helwar
Spain is not officialy bilingual, some regions are. I'm Catalan and here we are expected and required to know both Spanish and Catalan. Both are taught at school and both are used in day to day activities, much to the chagrin of the ones and the others
 
Carcer
Carcer
10:59 AM
I understand the catalan situation is a bit complicated
 
Helwar
Helwar
it isn't, some make it complicated
but it doesn't need to be
i'll go have lunch, laterz! (we'll continue the talk later if you want, sorry!)
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Helwar Basically it means public services are provided in both main languages. Students have to study the one that's not their mother tongue at school, although most Swedish-speaking Finns are fluent in Finnish too.
@Helwar The clerk probably knows just enough B to get by, or at least enough to tell you to hold on for a moment while they go get a better B speaker (having strong Swedish can be an advantage on the labor market!)
There's an ongoing political discussion about whether the mandatory Swedish for middle-schoolers is still needed. There's good arguments both ways: Swedish has a history here, Sweden is an important partner country who shares our values, and of course the fact that a significant minority of Finnish people prefer Swedish as their day to day language or only know Swedish
On the other hand, the Russian language is similarly useful near the Eastern border and could help market services towards the Russian tourists
 
 
1 hour later…
Carcer
Carcer
12:34 PM
that requires being friendly to russians though
this seems counter to the finnish spirit
 
kviiri
kviiri
Heh
Russia is a bit of a stressful neighbor for a country to have but so far I've had only good experiences with individual Russians :)
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
@kviiri on my first read (just woke up mind you) I read "individual Russians" as contrary to "conjoined Russians" and was like "Are conjoined Russians any worse?" before realizing you meant Russia as a country
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
As opposed to the roving hive-mind Russian gatherings
 
Helwar
Helwar
1:03 PM
@Carcer all individual russians I've met in my life (spoiler alert, you can count them with one hand) have been awesome people. Still, their goverment I would go touch with a 10' long pole
 
Carcer
Carcer
@Helwar I'm not sure if I've ever actually met a russian
I know plenty of Eastern Yurops (side effect of having a romanian partner)
 
Helwar
Helwar
@Carcer the last one I met invited me to go to Moscow for christmas. Has an appartment at the red plaza, and everything. I was pretty hyped up to go until she said it's -60ºC in the winter there. I start hibernation at -2º or die. I can't handle even the mention of -60ºC
 
Carcer
Carcer
uh
it is not possibly -60C in the winter there
that's insane
that's like north pole levels
 
Helwar
Helwar
i don't know. That's what she said.
 
Carcer
Carcer
casual googling suggests -10C is the very cold end of the scale
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
1:09 PM
Average temp on XMas in Moscow is -8 C
January and February is usually colder than December tho
 
kviiri
kviiri
The coldest day of Finnish winter are usually below -20C, but Moscow is way further inland (continental climates have colder winters than coastal) and Finnish winter is somewhat tempered by the warm flow of the Gulf stream West of Norway.
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
I don't see why someone would edit this to be wrong
 
Helwar
Helwar
I'm pretty sure she said -60, that was the whole point of the conversation for hours after that. It might have been sensation of -60 but not actual real -60? But still it would be pretty low
I dunno maybe she slipped on that
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
@Helwar Could have just been hyperbole. I know I've said it's like 100 degrees outside (F) when it was actually just like 80
 
Helwar
Helwar
might have
she actually got me to say no to the trip though with that hyperbole haha
 
kviiri
kviiri
1:16 PM
@DavidCoffron Note that the chart has average minimum temperature though
 
Helwar
Helwar
I said in summer I'll go wherever, but I don't like cold
 
kviiri
kviiri
Oh disregard that
There was a record minimum in the text itself x)
My brother was in the army starting from January 2010, I started in June of the same year. About 50 centigrade degrees of temperature difference between the days of our military vows.
 
Helwar
Helwar
gasp
 
kviiri
kviiri
It was a rather intense Summer. Like, temperature-wise, not just because of army stuff.
 
Carcer
Carcer
@kviiri moscow is at much lower latitude than finland though
 
kviiri
kviiri
1:20 PM
@Carcer That's true
Luckily, we got an actual winter too because snow is soft to crawl on and any mud is frozen :)
and snow can be just wiped off one's clothing, while water... can't.
 
Carcer
Carcer
I live in London mate, don't complain to me about rain
 
kviiri
kviiri
I'm usually rather positive about rain
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
london hardly knows the meaning of rain
 
kviiri
kviiri
But being forced to live an outdoor lifestyle makes even our fairly tolerable amounts of rain a pain :>
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
well, the inner city regions anyway
 
Carcer
Carcer
1:26 PM
well, I spent half my life in the midlands
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
where are the midlands?
(i've only been living here for a couple of years)
 
Carcer
Carcer
birmingham and derby regions
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
ooh
gotcha
in the past couple of years living in inner London I've seen less rain in than in Australia, which doesn't even rain for half the year
it's light and rare
i consider myself lied to about how rainy london is :P
 
Carcer
Carcer
climate change mate
the weather these days is notably drier than I recall from childhood
and warmer
but we've got it ingrained in the consciousness that Britain is a damp, rainy place
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Carcer I've been to Great Britain once, a bit under two weeks, during the Rihanna curse. Did not disappoint!
 
Carcer
Carcer
1:33 PM
@kviiri which bits did you visit?
 
kviiri
kviiri
Near constant downpour, exactly what we wanted to see!
@Carcer Started with London, toured around a bit, then went to Cornwall
London is a massive place
 
Carcer
Carcer
didn't fancy visiting Salisbury and its famous cathedral with beautiful 123 meter spire?
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Carcer I would if I went today. I was in my teens and travelling with my parents
I've read Rutherfurd's novel about Sarum, it was a good read.
 
Carcer
Carcer
Putin assures us it's a very popular tourist attraction
 
kviiri
kviiri
I don't remember much about the novel though. London ingrained itself in my head far better.
 
Carcer
Carcer
1:37 PM
greater london is very large though yeah
 
kviiri
kviiri
Although London the novel had one rather unpalatable quality - Rutherfurd decided to have one family be the villains of the novel. From the Norman era to the 1900's, it's always the Silversleeves family who's screwing everyone up.
 
Helwar
Helwar
@kviiri with such a fanciful name, it's like they were chosen by destiny to be the bad guys
 
Carcer
Carcer
troll question trucks on. Does anyone think it should be protected? It's attracted a lot of answers saying basically the same thing
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Helwar Yea. The first SIlversleeves, if my memory serves me right, was named by some unlikeable fellow who among other nasty things wiped his nose on his sleeves x) gross
The first ones to have an impact on the story are collaborating with the Norman occupation of England and are basically slave drivers to get the Tower built.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Carcer thing is, it's almost all people who would be able to post regardless of Protected status
 
Helwar
Helwar
1:44 PM
@Carcer wich question?
 
Carcer
Carcer
@doppelgreener speaking from personal experience, seeing the protected marker on a post disinclines me from answering it even though I am well able
at the very least it ensures I read the existing answers very carefully to ensure I'd actually be adding something by answering
47
Q: Are Trolls immune to all instant death effects?

DeltatheduckPart of the Troll's Regeneration feature says: The troll dies only if it starts its turn with 0 hit points and doesn't regenerate. Does this case beat instant kill effects, such as Divine Word or Power Word Kill? Divine Word says: [...] On a failed save, a creature suffers an effect ba...

dnd-5e monsters
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Carcer hmm. [marks protected then]
 
Carcer
Carcer
aw, you've stolen my thunder now
 
Helwar
Helwar
oh, I first thought you meant it was a troll question win the generic, internet-wise meaning of the word troll. Not an actual fictional troll
 
Carcer
Carcer
I was all ready to press that button for the first time
 
kviiri
kviiri
1:48 PM
Lots of terrible answers on that question
 
Carcer
Carcer
yeah... a lot of people seemed to miss the point, reading the troll's ability intuitively rather than literally
 
kviiri
kviiri
I hate correcting the same misconceptions on every post
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Carcer oh! shoot, my apologies
 
kviiri
kviiri
"But it doesn't reduce the troll to 0 hit points, it kills it" <-- 0 hit points is a condition for the troll dying, not a condition for the regeneration kicking in
 
Sir Cinnamon
Sir Cinnamon
It's difficult sometimes for me to vote for something that RAW is correct but is in my opionion not RAI nor RAF
 
kviiri
kviiri
1:51 PM
"But the troll dies so it doesn't have the ability anymore at the start of its turn" <-- by that logic the regeneration wouldn't save the troll ever
 
Helwar
Helwar
@SirCinnamon RAF? that's new to me
 
Sir Cinnamon
Sir Cinnamon
A lot of people are overlooking the important part of the wording "the troll only dies..."
@Helwar Royal Air Force clearly. Nah "Rules As Fun" AKA how I would play
or more strongly, how I would recommend it be played. Which is subjective obviously
 
Helwar
Helwar
oh, gotcha
 
kviiri
kviiri
@SirCinnamon Yeah, if you ask me the RAW reading is that the troll indeed can't be killed even by instant death effects but I didn't write an answer for it - first, because @Carcer wrote it well already, and secondly, because I think giving DnD a Talmudic level of examination is pointless when it isn't written with a Talmudic level of care :>
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@kviiri or "but the troll has an ability that says it can only die in these conditions, which this spell doesn't meet, so this spell cannot do this thing to the troll in the first place"
 
Helwar
Helwar
1:53 PM
hmmm, yo make me google too much today
 
Sir Cinnamon
Sir Cinnamon
@kviiri I agree with all of that
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@kviiri i agree with this
@SirCinnamon in fact i also agree with sir cinnamon agreeing with all of that
 
kviiri
kviiri
@doppelgreener Well, that is ok as long as there's good justification to consider one of the two conflicting rules having priority :P
 
Helwar
Helwar
@kviiri talmudic just means that refers to the talmud, and it's the first time i encounter that word in my life soooo the meaning is lost in me :P I just know it's a jew book
 
Carcer
Carcer
the question and self-answer the guy wrote suggests to me quite strongly that it should have the raw tag, as I commented
since it is an extremely literal analysis he seems to be looking for
 
kviiri
kviiri
1:59 PM
Mentally, I approach the troll contradiction by taking it more extreme: Let's suppose the troll has a trait that it can't be killed at all. "The troll never dies." I'd rule no instant death thing works on that, and I think most'd agree. We can loosen that to get "The troll never dies unless it is at zero hit points and doesn't regenerate" --- equivalent to the current rule, without a clear point of demarcation in between that one and "immortal" where instant death starts applying to it.
 
Carcer
Carcer
ah, op's readded the raw tag
 
kviiri
kviiri
If I had to rewrite that bit of the MM, I'd rewrite it as "A troll doesn't die when reduced to zero hit points. However, it dies if it starts its turn with zero hit points and doesn't regenerate."
Note that this permits instant death - my rule starts from the assumption that the troll dies normally, adds an exception and an exception to the exception. The current troll rule tosses the normal dying rule entirely by saying trolls can't die, then adds an exception.
 
Carcer
Carcer
agreed
I do believe the rule was intended to be about preventing a troll's death due to hit point damage, not in all circumstances, but if read literally it's the latter
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Helwar Forgot to respond to this - Talmud is basically a large and ancient collection of Jewish philosophy, interpretation and debates concerning the law. Debating the law and using logic and careful textual analysis to arrive to conclusions are an important part of Rabbinical Judaism
 
Carcer
Carcer
yeah, my understanding of judaism is that it's basically worship through religious rules-lawyering
oh, we can't move things outside the house? We'll just redefine house to be this arbitrarily large area so as long as we can delineate a clear border for it"
it's very weird to the outside perspective
 
Helwar
Helwar
2:13 PM
omg, quick dirty question (i'll make an actual question of it if it isn't quick), my players are preparing a trap for an aboleth with an accumulation of Contingency + Glyph of Warding + Symbol + prepared actions. The idea is that they use the wizard as bait, and when the aboleth gets near everything starts: One spell should destroy the column holding the underwater cavern, 2 fireballs, a spell i don't remember but that gives disadvantatge on X saves, then a dominate monster and a word of healing
 
Xirema
Xirema
@kviiri Maybe borrow the wording of Relentless Endurance or Undying Sentinel? "when this creature is reduced to 0 hit points and is not killed outright, this creature only dies if, at the start of its next turn, it does not get Regeneration and is at 0 hit points."
 
Helwar
Helwar
now, the debate is if this all solves instantaneously at the same time, or spell by spell
 
kviiri
kviiri
The culture of debating based on a given source is peculiarly similar among DnD players, although I think DnD is, in addition to more pointless, not really written with the same level of care as these traditional texts are :>
 
Carcer
Carcer
@Helwar Xanathar's suggests that when multiple effects happen at the same time you resolve them in an order as determiined by whoever's turn on the initiative it is when they went off
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Helwar 5e doesn't do simultaneous stuff so I'd say spell by spell.
 
Carcer
Carcer
2:15 PM
the.... selection of spells is slightly confusing to me
 
Helwar
Helwar
they want it to work as MTG, so there is a pile of actions resolving one by one, so even if they hurt the thing too much the word of healing would bring it back to positive hp
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
@Helwar the saves one is probably bestow curse
 
Carcer
Carcer
ah - they're trying to hurt it enough that they can dominate it without killing it?
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@kviiri D&D 5e asks us to run based on real-world logic, which says two things could happen simultaneously
 
Helwar
Helwar
yes
they want it super hurt in case it shakes of the domination, they can finish it quickly
 
Xirema
Xirema
2:16 PM
Ah, wrote that incorrectly: should have been "this creature does not die unless, at the start of its turn..."
 
kviiri
kviiri
Can't they just declare their spells to be non-lethal?
(I can't remember if AoE can be declared as such)
 
Carcer
Carcer
kviiri: melee attacks only IIRC
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
@kviiri only melee attacks work that way
 
Helwar
Helwar
well yes, theyr damage yes, but htey plan on bringing down the cave on him
the ycan't do a "non-letal" avalanche
:P
 
kviiri
kviiri
@DavidCoffron Oh, right
 
Carcer
Carcer
2:18 PM
yeah melee attack only
 
kviiri
kviiri
In 4e you could do non-lethal anything iirc
 
Helwar
Helwar
so I will tell them that the spells go one by one even if the trigger is the same
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
@Helwar well. I'd let them trigger simultaneously in world but resolve them one by one for simplicities sake
That's how rounds work
 
kviiri
kviiri
What's the actual problem there, though?
 
Helwar
Helwar
well I meant mechanically :)
we tend to overanalyze things
 
kviiri
kviiri
2:21 PM
If you want this construction to work, no need to look too close. Just let it happen.
If you don't want it to work, well... depends a bit on your table culture I'd say :P
 
Helwar
Helwar
brb
it's not that I don't want to, they themselves presented the pros and cons
thing is we overanalyze things haha. The idea is: bring down the cave, damage it further, just in case, curse it so it's weaker to domination, dominate it, heal it a little, interrogate, possibly capture and bring back to employer
so spells need to go one by one
but htey themselves said things like, if all goes at the same time, it won't work
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
@Helwar they could make the triggers based on the previous spells to ensure sequentiality
 
Helwar
Helwar
because if (for example) You have 30 hp, i do 100 damage, bring you under 0, and heal 5. You are at 5. But if I do 100 damage and heal you 5 at the same time, I did 95 damage to you, so... still under 0
and if the curse and dominate work at the same time, dominate wouldn't benefit from curse
things like that
 
Carcer
Carcer
ah
things don't happen simultaneously like that in D&D
 
Helwar
Helwar
they've been going on all day on the whatsapp group planning for tomorrow ^ ^
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
2:26 PM
@Carcer they do but the game uses initiative to decide what things affect the world first
 
Carcer
Carcer
if multiple instantaneous effects happen at once you resolve them one by one in some order
in the fiction it may all happen at once but mechanically there is an order
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
@Carcer yes but what order? If it were me I'd give each time with the same trigger an initiative relative to the other. Then I'd let the caster chose the modifier for the initiatives up to twice their Spellcasting modifier in either direction
So the caster can set them up to have "slight delays" from each other but there's a chance that once the aboleth gets there it doesn't work quite as planned
 
Helwar
Helwar
@DavidCoffron it's quite a big margin, 8 or 10 numbers to choose from in most optimized builds. You might just say "choose the order" at that point
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
@Helwar shrug it's the middle ones that become a question. Sure the initial fireball and dominate arent gonna swap places, but what about the curse and the fireballs. They might
Just a suggestion. Never actually uses it so I'm not sure how it would play out
 
Helwar
Helwar
yeah, I get it's something from the top of your head :)
nah, just knowing that doesnt happen simultaneously at all helped
thanks
we have to see if the cave-in damages it enough, or if it outrights kill him.... I'll have to look how to rule cave ins in sea floor environments :P
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
2:40 PM
20
Q: How might the weight of a falling object affect the damage it causes?

QuiescatFall damage is 1d6 per 10 feet. What adjustments if any should I make for objects falling on a player character? (e.g. a bear) Assuming the objects are meaningful threats but not instant character death, should the weight of an object change the calculation, e.g. more then 1d6 per 10 feet. Or i...

dnd-5e
4
Q: Dropping objects/creatures on monsters

KillerKellyIf a character who was under the effect of a growth potion (double height and 8X its weight) and was 2,400 lbs was able to say, Dimension Door 400'+ in the air, directly above a huge sized monster, and fell on it, how much damage would the falling creature - and the monster take? I would assume ...

dnd-5e
 
Helwar
Helwar
oh thx!
i was worried about the underwater part, more than anything else though. Maybe it doesn't affect mechanically
 
Daniel Zastoupil
Daniel Zastoupil
@Helwar There is some mention in Xanathar's where it specifies that if multiple things are likely to happen all at once (or nearly at the same time), the person who's turn it currently is should be the one who decides how everything plays out. But it's more of an optional rule than anything.
And if this hinges on the fact that it's an activated trap for the Aboleth, the players will definitely not like that decision process.
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
@Helwar umm... Is the cavern submerged? Bc fireballs are not very effective in water
 
Sir Cinnamon
Sir Cinnamon
@DavidCoffron RAW they are
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
@SirCinnamon no they deal half damage RAW
 
Daniel Zastoupil
Daniel Zastoupil
2:46 PM
p. 198 of the Player's Handbook: "Creatures and objects that are fully immersed in water have resistance to fire damage."
 
Carcer
Carcer
@DavidCoffron like I mentioned before, Xanathar's rules have it that when things happen simultaneously, you resolve them in an order decided by whoever's turn it is when they happened
 
Helwar
Helwar
it's in the bottom of the sea, they are underwater. They went down on a magically DIY submarine, and now have a merfolk blessing to be able to sustain the pressure and breathe
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
> Creatures and objects that are fully immersed in water have Resistance to fire damage.
 
Sir Cinnamon
Sir Cinnamon
@DavidCoffron Oh, huh. I guess that's never come up before. Now i know!
 
Helwar
Helwar
@DavidCoffron I know, haven't said anything to them yet. They have lightning bolt but they fear to zap themselves underwater
 
Daniel Zastoupil
Daniel Zastoupil
2:48 PM
Is what I'm saying not showing up in chat? Because it kinda feels like people are repeating the same stuff I'm putting in here.
Testing, 1 2 3? Anyone read this?
 
Helwar
Helwar
I read you @DanielZastoupil
 
Carcer
Carcer
we're just very repetitive today
 
Helwar
Helwar
I might've not acknowledged it in text but I do!
 
Daniel Zastoupil
Daniel Zastoupil
Thanks. Wouldn't be the first time that something flash-related started acting funny on my PC.
There's an acid spell that might work. It deals slightly less damage than Fireball but it's roughly similar. Melf's Acid Arrow, I think?
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
@DanielZastoupil sorry. I'm on mobile so while I'm typing I don't see what people say
 
Helwar
Helwar
2:50 PM
they would have to have it to use it :P
they know that specific aboleth is terrified of fire and I think they wrongly assume he's vulnerable to it, but well, that's on them
 
Daniel Zastoupil
Daniel Zastoupil
Sounds like a good time for Phantasmal Force.
What's the intelligence on an Aboleth?
 
Helwar
Helwar
18 on the common ones
 
Daniel Zastoupil
Daniel Zastoupil
Oh, lol, nevermind.
THAT'S not gonna happen
 
Carcer
Carcer
Aboleths are very smrt
 
Helwar
Helwar
this one is the "dragon" of the bbg, and it's a little bit tougher
 
Daniel Zastoupil
Daniel Zastoupil
3:00 PM
Would be a good time for the Pyromancer from the Kaladesh Article. Level 6 feature is that they ignore enemy resistances to fire.
Not sure what they're gonna do now that they're down there, though.
Aboleth's are a massive pain in the rear to deal with. What level are they?
 
kviiri
kviiri
I had an unusually feelgoody RPG scheduling moment yesterday
 
Helwar
Helwar
5 lvl 13 characters
 
kviiri
kviiri
One of the players in my group approached me and thanked me for being active in scheduling our games
(I'm usually the scheduler, even when not GMing)
 
Carcer
Carcer
that's nice
+10 schedule points
 
kviiri
kviiri
I was happy for a while but our GM still hasn't answered my question whether next Monday is ok :>
 
Helwar
Helwar
3:09 PM
That's good. If i'm not scheduling noone does it. THe most that can happen is that they just whatsapp the group things like "we play today? my home in an hour"
wich gives me plenty of time to prepare, as you can see
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Helwar Sometimes someone else conjures up a Doodle for two months or so, which no one fills until the first month is up and the second month is inaccurate because it's too far away to be sure
 
Helwar
Helwar
doodles don't work at all, ever. With any group
I had one friend that kept sending doodles for everything he wanted to organize and I remember feeling it was a pain in the ass to go and answer them, and COMMIT to them. And he always complained: IT's just a few clicks! not even a minute!.
nowadays I send doodles for somethings when there is too much people to handle
and he's the first to complain: "you are making me open things! Isn't my word enough!?" etc...
 
kviiri
kviiri
Yea well, I think doodles are fine for some things
Choosing a date over a month in the future is not among them
I make a short one so people actually fill it mindfully and hope it works out
 
Helwar
Helwar
the most useful thing is give a definite time and place and just ask if yes or nay
 
kviiri
kviiri
3:26 PM
I've started doing that more
Usually I start by asking "Anyone available next week?" and then someone chimes in that they've got stuff to do otherwise but are free on Tuesday and Thursday nights
Then I ask the rest if either of those is ok
 
Helwar
Helwar
what's that cleric spell that lets you make a zone "sacred", and becomes permanent if done enough times?
 
GreySage
GreySage
@Helwar Consecrate?
 
Helwar
Helwar
maybe, let me check
 
GreySage
GreySage
Sorry, it's Hallow in 5e
 
Helwar
Helwar
i don't know if it's that.... I remember it different, but my memory is not a trusted source
 
Sir Cinnamon
Sir Cinnamon
3:30 PM
Druids get a cool similar spell (in Xanathars I think)
 
GreySage
GreySage
Private Sanctum and Guards and Wards, along with Teleportation Circle also become permanent if cast every day for a year
@SirCinnamon Druid Grove. yeah
 
Helwar
Helwar
I found it
Forbiddance
6th level, I can do it :P
 
GreySage
GreySage
@Helwar Are you worried about extra-dimensional visitors?
 
Helwar
Helwar
I'm interested in: "In addition, the spell damages types of creatures that you choose when you cast it."
 
Carcer
Carcer
neat
 
Helwar
Helwar
3:37 PM
it's not gonna affect the players, and probably won't even notice it if they don't summon a celestial to help, but since aberrations and celestials are sworn enemies in my campaign, it makes sense that the aboleth protect their nest against them...
It's more fluff than anything but I like it
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
@Helwar I've done that before and it killed one of my player's familiars... whoops
 
Helwar
Helwar
haha
well familiars ain't that difficult to bring back
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
@Helwar true and we all had a good laugh. (The player in question wasn't using the familiar for combat anywat)
It was a chicken based on the one from Moana. I narrated it as it's head exploding. Of course, it ran around a bit like a chicken with its head chopped off
 
Helwar
Helwar
hahahha
our warlock has an owl, she doesn't want to give it a name but I call it popcorn, because everytime she remembers she has an infernal owl is to send him to die doing what noone else wants to do
the poor thing is counting the days until the warlock patron takes her soul away to be free to return to hell, wich would be a lot nicer than being at her service
 
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