TRPG General Chat

Well, his sheet.

orcpub2.com/pages/dnd/5e/characters/17592274352224?frame=true

user362639

cool

Forgot weapons: orcpub2.com/pages/dnd/5e/characters/17592274352224?frame=true

Oh wait it auto-updates

Nevermind the second link then

So my last game of Savage Worlds was vs a dystopian "Wizard of Oz" cast. "Dot" was a crazed caster that used a wicker picnic basket as her casting focus. Toto was a transforming dog (it took an action to grow to 9ft in length... so... beast of a dog).

12:14 AM

Nice

The Tin Man was "Rusty"... a Colossus variant that caused metal to instantly rust and degrade (we have a robot and a tech dude in full armour)

The Scarecrow was actually a mutated praying mantis mutant human called "Scarcrow", with a 4m reach on his arm blades

@Ben heheheheh. talk about a big ol' floof :D

scritches the 9' long Toto behind the ears

And the Lion was actually an alien that could transform into a lion (his chosen form) at will, and had named himself "Lionex"

In a campaign I was in, someone had a pet Direwolf, my halfling rogue could ride him

It was very nearly a TPK

12:18 AM

@LukeSommers hehe :D

The Direwolf's name was Snarl

@LukeSommers [trying to think of dog puns]

[this is... ruff]

Heh

I made him a collar out of dragon scales (we had defeated a young green dragon recently), as well as a little tag with his name out of a gold coin, which hung on the collar

user362639

aww

Our fighter (who owned Snarl) also ran an inn, the Dragon's Crown, named so because he had taken the head of the dragon and mounted it on the wall, then put a crown we got from a bugbear on it

12:25 AM

@LukeSommers That crown is not staying there. Lol.

user362639

cool

What happens... if you're a wizard... take magic initiate... and choose Wizard as the class...

If I know drunk idiots (I'm Australian, so yeah lol) that crown is getting stolen haha

user362639

what is magic initiate. is it a feat?

@Ben With a giant wolf there? I think it is. Also, the town we were in was empty, but after we got rid of the dragon, Rolph (the fighter) became the mayor since he lived there and his goal was to bring it back as a great town

@Mustachachu Yes, it is.

user362639

12:27 AM

let me find it

Magic Initiate-
Choose a class: bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard. You learn two cantrips of your choice from that class's spell list.

In addition, choose one 1st-level spell from that same list. You learn that spell and can cast it at its lowest level. Once you cast it, you must finish a long rest before you can cast it again.

Your spellcasting ability for these spells depends on the class you chose: Charisma for bard, sorcerer, or warlock; Wisdom for cleric or druid; or Intelligence for wizard.

user362639

players hand book

user362639

or

user362639

xanathars

@LukeSommers The wolf, nor the party are going to be there all the time. And I've seen people do more stupid things lol. But anyway

12:28 AM

PHB, but you can just read it here

user362639

oh ok

Also, we need more INT based spellcasting classes!

@LukeSommers You get 2 cantrips and a 1st level spell from the wizard spell list

@Ben In addition to the ones you already get?

Yep

ｃｕｒｓｅｄｉｍａｇｅｓ [-D-E-L-U-X-E-]

12:29 AM

Cool

user362639

sounds like a pretty cool feat

user362639

►

It is.

Usually the rule of thumb with these things are that unless explicitly stated, there is no exceptions to these rules.

So, for example if it did say "this does not stack with spells of the same class", then yeah, you wouldn't be able to get it. But that's not the case in this situation.

Imagine if you could take it multiple times

user362639

12:33 AM

:3 that would be awesome

"You're a Champion Fighter! How are you casting so many spells?" "I took Magic Initiate 3 times."

user362639

LOLOLOL

Arcane Trickster Rogue + Magic Initiate

user362639

hey @LukeSommers, have I spoke to you about adventures league yet

No?

user362639

12:36 AM

have you ever been

Nope

user362639

aww

user362639

oh well

What is it?

user362639

kinda of a small event done weekly

12:38 AM

Where?

user362639

usually game stores with TTRPGs

user362639

you make a character and just join in\

user362639

its free too

We have a Better World Books, which has a weekly Game Night, but no AL sadly.

user362639

plan to go tomorrow

12:40 AM

I always do

user362639

hold up going to do dishes

I've been going for years

user362639

cool

Yep

user362639

does it sound similar to adventures league

12:45 AM

It's more like "Hey, you want to DM? Great, we want to be players!"

user362639

so they look for dm's

user362639

and they play players

People who want to play try to get a group together

user362639

so its a way to find dm's for groups?

It's a time and place to play games. Some people play D&D, but you have to find your own DM and group

user362639

12:49 AM

so people go there find people and form a group slowly

user362639

with and just ask whether or not they need more players or a dm

Kinda, yeah. I joined the Pathfinder group I'm in cause I was like "Hey, can I join you guys?"

They happened to have pregens that were their level

user362639

cool

user362639

gotta go eat dinner hopefully will be back

Ok

1:10 AM

So... according to Wikipedia, Rei Ayanami (from Evangelion Neon Genesis) is a Schizophrenic character. From what I saw (I only watched the Anime), I don't see it.

Mike Q

@Ben It's plausible, she often seems detached from what's going on around her. Then again, these are severely traumatized characters in a fictional insane universe and I'm sure it's easy to fake-diagnose any of them with anything.

Though I suppose... if Shinji is anything to go off, it would make sense. And there was mention of the relationship between the Evas and their pilots... plus Ayanami's origins would certainly play a part - the relationship with Yui Ikari and Lilith, for example.

There's evidence of it, but because it's never shown what her actual thoughts are, it's hard to see

user362639

1:32 AM

weeee

user362639

Im back

Right!

Haha... gotcha again.

user362639

uhh...

wb @SimonH.

user362639

SIMON

1:38 AM

Hello @shalvenay, @Mustachachu

user362639

WELCOME bAk

Uhhh did I die?

user362639

MaBeY...

I was just playing Night in the Woods.

user362639

Oh I know that game with the cat

1:40 AM

and the fox

user362639

and croc

and the bear

@SimonH. I have a strong feeling that you didn't die, if that helps

@trogdor it's a tough call.

user362639

there a BaNd

1:41 AM

@Mustachachu with one fan

Relephant

@SimonH. I guess if you say so

user362639

if your dead what am I :P

a poodle?

user362639

err, you guessed wrong, you get a eternity in a immortal poodle

1:44 AM

inside a poodle?

user362639

you are in the poodles mind, and see and hear and feel what it feels, and hears, and see, but you can't control it

sounds really hot in 105 degree weather, I think I'll pass

@Mustachachu That's decidedly a step up from a chihuahua though.

[constant anxiety]

user362639

well I control what happens if you guess wrong

user362639

I am the host

user362639

1:46 AM

of this game

user362639

show

If like you were the poodle, then you'd be my host, but

I dunno if they do game shows in 2072

user362639

well now they do

thats kinda totally last year, man

user362639

Im bringing it back

user362639

1:48 AM

like 64 games on the 3ds

you should get a deal with nickelodeon

"the poodle-unisher"

user362639

you lose and are stuck in a poodles mind forever.

user362639

or you can win 5 million dollars

user362639

wait

user362639

how much is a cola now

1:50 AM

like a buck and a half

user362639

compared to 2018

user362639

would everything be much more expensive?

in 2072 they'll cost like 10 bucks

probably

I dunno

user362639

so I should make the reward money 30 million dollars

Wow that is some inflation there

1:52 AM

well like a gallon of gas used to cost like ten cents

now it costs a dollar

That is gas though

user362639

it's the FUTURE

yeah but that was before OPEC

now it's comparatively worse

I think the whole point is that Gas will be obsolete in the future/

I would personally, as a non expert, expect a soda in 2072 to cost like maybe up to 3 dollars

user362639

1:53 AM

FUTURE

cowarrrdddd

inflation rulz ok

user362639

MoNeY

user362639

spongebob is still a thing

@SimonH. Is that "Inflation rulz bruh!" or "Following the rules of inflation"?

if things cost more then we get paid more and we get to have more paper for when the apocalypse happens

1:55 AM

Because of the use of a z

user362639

LUKE
NAUT

it's a reference

user362639

we have a game show in 2072

Paper seems like a less useful thing during the apocalypse or post apocalypse

user362639

@SimonH. is a poodle

1:56 AM

@Ben Constant anxiety, you say? Sounds familiar.

user362639

and there is a lot of inflation

@trogdor It's good tinder. get it? because it's tender? legal tender?

user362639

MoNeY

@SimonH. ah ok

I know I'm not funny but I just got done with my second playthrough of NitW and I just need something to make it feel ok again

that game hits me in the feels like a damn semi truck

1:59 AM

user362639

or getting ran over by a car since your a poodle

@SimonH. Read The Tea Dragon Society, maybe.

@BESW oh my gosh that looks adorable

It is.

user15026

@BESW I really need to read this, because the bits I've seen are so cute

user362639

2:01 AM

NoW It Is TiMe To ReAd It FoR HoUrS

user362639

gotta go take shower will be back tomorrow ByE

goodbye tohru

Tohru?

@BESW also excellent recommendation

the profile picture is tohru

Ah ok

2:10 AM

@KorvinStarmast Reading back... I'll just say (as I usually do) that the old one-axis Law-Chaos alignment actually worked, people. It' wasn't that orcs were Evil racially, but it could be that these orcs were working for the other team, the one that actively works to destroy the fabric of the universe.

@nitsua60 That's a good case of confronting and re-interrogating the source material. It didn't last, and from what I've seen the point was often too subtly made for contemporary groups as well.

@KorvinStarmast (Oh, I see... a bit later you point out the same two-axis problem. Should have kept reading.)

It's also worth looking at which groups were most commonly associated which which axis.

Anyone have experience with Orc Pub 2?

@BESW I feel some days like anyone who wants to have alignment in their D&D/PF game should be required to read Poul Anderson first. "Is this what you were looking for? Then Alignment may be for you. (But if not, think hard about what you're dropping onto your game!)"

@BESW Hoo, boy, is it ever. Painfully so.

2:19 AM

eg, why are explicitly "Mongoloid"-coded characters so "often" (as to become ubiquitous) allied with evil?

@BESW wait what? That's not a stereotype that I knew existed in D&D (and D&Dlikes)

@DavidCoffron And I quote from Tolkien's letters, in which he is correcting a movie pitch that wanted to give orcs beaks and feathers:

> squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes: in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types.

And the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica entry for "Mongolic or Yellow Man":

> His physical characteristics are a short squat body, a yellowish-brown or coppery complexion, hair lank, straight and black, flat small nose, broad skull, usually without prominent brow-ridges, and black oblique eyes.

@BESW "least lovely Mongol-types" at least implies that Mongol-types can be lovely (which of course they can). It's certainly a strange descriptor but I don't think it's overtly generalizing

See also the Uruk-Hai as explicitly anti-miscegenation. Saruman’s "wickedest deed: the interbreeding of Orcs and Men."

Oh, wow. I just saw a political ad on TV. (For, like, the second time in my life: I'm visiting my parents across state lines, and it appears that they live in a state where that's a thing, contrasted with every place I've ever lived not being politically competitive.) It's like a parody of itself.

Mike Q

2:26 AM

@nitsua60 Any chance you could summarize that point about Poul Anderson and the alignment system?

I did not affiliate Orcs with East Asians or Mongols in any way. In fact the Forgotten Realms have specific human subraces that parallel these groups.

I can't tell which side of Poe's Law I'm sitting on.

And this is the vision of orcs that "classic" fantasy has inherited: "human bodies + bad magic – the essence of humanity."

@MikeQ Sure. Original D&D's alignment system was one-axis, Law-Chaos. Each had a language and secret signs so that members of an alignment could make themselves known to each other.

@DavidCoffron We can cherry-pick specific phrases and defend individual instances as lacking intent, but the overall cumulative effect doesn't change.

2:27 AM

That's because they were actually partisans in a war over the fate/direction of the universe.

Mike Q

@nitsua60 So they were factions? I'm guessing that's the origin of (or at least an inspiration for) the Alliance/Horde setup?

@BESW the cumulative effect of what? I've never heard anyone compare Orcs to Asians (to use a general term for the sake of brevity)

If you put "chaotic" on your character sheet you were saying "dear GM, I'm actively trying to unmake the rational view of the universe these rules espouse. Let those Law suckers hope for the sun to rise tomorrow, I say purple flarngs should babe instead."

@DavidCoffron Of course not. That's not what I'm saying.

@MikeQ Armies in a cosmic-scale struggle.

2:29 AM

Hence the word 'coded.'

(brb)

You mean to say they are based off of stereotypes then?

It's a term from critical theory in which certain qualities associated with a particular thing (like being gay, or Asian) are presented without reference to the actual thing, with the implication that readers "in the know" are going to recognize the code and make the connection.

@nitsua60 I humbly disagree. I prefer chaos.

But some codes have become so commonplace that they're now used thoughtlessly.

2:31 AM

@BESW if that's the case for Orcs then I was uninformed. I never figured that they were attempting to code them as a racial stereotype. I just assumed they chose the color based on putrefaction.

Like Disney queer-coding most of its villains, both intentionally (Ursula the Sea-Witch is modeled after a real-life drag queen) and unintentionally (...well, look at Scar).

And that's why the articles I've been linking are important to read; they help connect those dots for people like us who are immersed in archaic coding that's been mainstreamed.

@BESW Scar is queer?

@BESW I was at work when you sent them. I'll give them a read now

@SimonH. Queer-coded.

@SimonH. coding just means they are designed to draw that connection out of readers or viewers

(Or do accidentally sometimes)

2:34 AM

Oh, I see. Definitely accidental, then, I really don't think he seems queer.

coded.

Linday Ellis's "Queering Michael Bay," queued to the queer-coding Disney villain clip section.

google.com/… you can see it's purveyors in this search

KorvinStarmast

@BESW We had more opponents who were men than we did who had some sort of goblinoid background. Back when that L/N/C one axis model was at work. Men (of the NPC/Monster variety) could bat for all three sides; law, neutrality, and chaos. And they did. Bandits, berserkers, dervishes, barbarians, and just plain old "enemies from that realm over there" or "swashbucklers who were a random encounter"

It's important to understand that coding is sometimes used to indicate that a character is actually that thing in contexts where the creator can't or won't say it explicitly, but more often it uses the associations with that thing in order to get a particular reaction from the audience.

@KorvinStarmast aye, people forget the importance of non-monstrous humanoid foes

2:38 AM

Keep in mind though that queer coding is not inherently bad. It's just poorly implemented many times. Hinting at a person's sexuality or ethnicity in "the right" way (i.e. without resorting to stereotypes or the like) can make your characters feel more real. Unfortunately that is very difficult to do when some stereotypes are ingrained in our culture (for better or worse)

My whole outlook on the "gay awareness" thing is that it is unfortunately frustrating. Making a big deal out of character's orientations, openly pointing out the intentional design of it to push awareness and all that, because I don't care. It doesn't affect me - I have gay people in my life. They know I'm straight, I know they're gay. We go on with our daily lives. The fact that "society" hasn't caught up to that frustrates me.

Right. I cringe a little when I read Allingham's queer-coded characters because they're a bit on the nose, but I think she was being honest and sincere and she succeeded in making them sympathetic.

Like when you understood how to deal with the math problem on the first go, and then the rest of the class needs to go over it 5 more times so that everyone understands.

But Scar isn't supposed to be read as queer; he's supposed to be read as certain things associated with queerness in that space and time: deception, cowardliness, etc., queer-coding has been a handy shortcut for that since... well, for at least a hundred years and it's still going today, sadly.

KorvinStarmast

@BESW It isn't miscegenation if the orcs aren't human; the horror that Saruman perpetrates goes well beyond that since the orc is depicted as monstrous, not as another "race of man." There was a really neat article a few years ago in re how Tolkien never closed the loop on orc origins and "what is an orc." I'll see if I can find the link, I don't doubt you are familiar with it.

2:41 AM

@Ben I get that sentiment, but we as a society still have to go over the problem since not everyone gets it (just like in grade school). I wish it wasn't the case, but some people don't get it yet

@Ben Aye, it's frustrating but necessary emotional labor.

Unfortunately

@Ben At least there's no homosexuality trait in D&D. To be honest it's something I could see them.doing (part of why I dislike the system is they try to capitalize on every aspect of personage when it's unnecessary or even unwanted).

Like Lovecraft's fish-people, orcs are written using specific real-world prejudices and propaganda tools to evoke the same fear and loathing in the reader that the real-world tools are meant to evoke in real people. That's something which isn't inherently bad, but requires very careful work to avoid just reinforcing the bigotry against real people by reinforcing it with a thinly veiled allegory.

In my experience (and I'm agreeing with Jemisin here), unloading that baggage from the orc results in... well, something that's not really an orc anymore so let's just go with something that wasn't an orc to start with.

@BESW I wonder if that sort of coding is used commonly for lizardfolk/reptilian races as well ,or if that's a more direct appeal to "human minus something"?

2:45 AM

@DavidCoffron I feel that would be counterproductive to the whole thing. Especially with their current change from "Race" to "Culture"

@Ben I mean I could have seen them doing it in the past

@Ben I've got a side-eye on that one, I suspect it may be purely superficial.

KorvinStarmast

NVM, sorry, I am on the wrong machine to find it.

Pointing out a separate "feature" to identify them as a "separation" from the norm.

@DavidCoffron Ah I see.

@BESW maybe not. Although cultural oppression (a la British empire) isn't much better if they go that route

2:46 AM

@Shalvenay Depends on the work in question, I think, but it's a good idea to take a long hard squint at any speculative fiction "race" that's humanoid animals.

@BESW i.e. if they made something like this and used the wrong kinds of language: dndbeyond.com/characters/races/13709-apeling

And generally speaking it's not a good idea to take a speculative fiction species and just give it a real-world culture with a twist.

(This, of course, is much different if it's your own culture or identity that you're messing with.)

There's a world of difference between Cyber Way and Trail of Lightning.

@BESW I disagree with that mentality. If it's wrong for one person it's wrong for anyone

Miniman

@BESW No need to be suspicious, it's absolutely purely superficial.