TRPG General Chat

BESW

12:02 AM

I hope so.

Mike Q

@nitsua60 It can be both, if the rifle is also a fish

nitsua60

That would be needlessly carping =)

BESW

nitsua60

That would be needlessly carping.

BESW

I am occasionally reminded that part of what made the Amber DRPG amazing was that it demanded that you have a family, but also insured that it was not the family you would have chosen. Sounds a little flip, but that lack of agency has a huge role in making family FEEL like family

Tweeted by rdonoghue on June 7, 2018 at 10:22 PM

nitsua60

12:06 AM

(Varsity version of jeff: find pictures that prompt us to italicize each different word in the sentence "that would be needlessly carping.")

Mike Q

@nitsua60 But yes, I do mean it in the most thankful way possible, rather than a complaint. Having my bad ideas pointed out to me has helped improved my campaign tremendously.

BESW

nitsua60

That would be needlessly CARPING!!!

[bows to the forever-champion of all versions of jeff ]

BESW

doppelgreener

@BESW this is exactly why I loved calling that half-troll I played Harold.

It's about the least suitable name he could get, but names don't get chosen with foresight. Especially not with foresight that your kid will turn out to be a half-troll.

BESW

12:15 AM

I dunno, "Harry" seems like a not-inappropriate name for a troll.

[grin]

doppelgreener

Is that a Harry Potter reference? :P

FuzzyBoots

12:33 AM

Good evening, all.

So, I've got a bit of a conundrum, albeit one that's largely self-imposed.

I'm running a Play-By-Post game on the forums.

Sorry for the choppy speech, hit the Enter button prematurely.

SPavel

i have an idea for DMs! its called! Wreckscalibur! its a sword in a stone! and you weild it like a big 2 handed mace! cuz the end of the sword is a large stone! ONCE AGAIN JOMA! YOU HAVE SHOWN YOUR SUPERIOR INTELLECT!!!

Tweeted by ForgingMeanings on June 7, 2018 at 5:40 AM

FuzzyBoots

:) So, I'm doing a superhero RPG and I'm at the point where I'm picking from the character submissions. I've got five definites out of the thirteen that submitted and I plan to accept six. There's this one guy who's enthusiastic, and has really grown since he started out, but I can't stand his spelling / grammar.

He's a native English speaker, but apparently his computer died some time ago, so he does all of his typing on his PS4. The result is a relatively lack of punctuation, somewhat random capitalization, and a general feel that it's lines from a chat program, submitted without proofreading.

Part of me feels bad rejecting him for that, but frankly, it really does bug the heck out of me.

Example: echoesofthemultiverse.com/…

Thoughts?

BESW

@doppelgreener No, just a hairy one.

@FuzzyBoots Hmm. Effective communication is super important in any RPG, even more so when your interface removes some of the communication bandwidth (like body language and vocal tone), so I don't think it's a petty irr🐘 concern.

doppelgreener

@FuzzyBoots If you're recruiting for a text based game and someone's communication style bugs the crap out of you, you'll probably be doing everyone including them a favour by not accepting them. Like BESW says, communication's important.

FuzzyBoots

{nods}

And he is in some other games, so he's not exactly starved for games...

BESW

12:42 AM

But if I were in your shoes, I'd phrase it that way --that you're concerned his limited technology will impede his ability to collaborate with the group-- and ask if there's something he can do, or some way the group can help, to overcome that challenge.

doppelgreener

Well if you're recruiting for any game really, but if this was a voice based game their writing wouldn't matter much

trogdor

@doppelgreener lol, I usually take it from the opposite direction, how did the name a character got influence who they became

But wtv works

doppelgreener

@trogdor that's definitely a phenomenon

(at least I think so)

trogdor

I have to say, my name technically did influence some of my actions early in life

One of which was breifly wanting to change it

It isn't always going to be some big hamfisted thing

Though, just imagine some cruel parent naming thier child Hitler or Ghengis Kahn or something

That is recipe for needing therapy

FuzzyBoots

Thanks for the advice, guys.

BESW

12:52 AM

Good luck!

ravery

1:14 AM

hey,anyone here familiar with warlocks?

does agonizing blast require casting? or is it a permenant upgrade to eldritch blast?

nitsua60

game?

trogdor

Yeah game and edition would be helpful

ravery

Sorry D&D 5e

nitsua60

> Agonizing Blast. When you cast eldritch blast...

trogdor

No problem

nitsua60

1:18 AM

So it's an upgrade to eldritch blast, as you say.

trogdor

And we have an answer XD

ravery

thanks

nitsua60

no prob

nitsua60

2:02 AM

Okay, I'm sitting down to write one of those "oh, god, my GM handed me ten pages of homework to read before starting the campaign" things. (D&D 5e, med-low magic 4-race fantasy.) So far what I've got is
setting: rough geography, broad-strokes history (esp. recent), the gods, the peoples;
character options: playable races, playable classes, how alignment matters;
gm-matters: how I use TBIF-->inspiration, roles I need players to take;
some maps and art.

What'm'I missing?

BESW

@nitsua60 Thank Batman It's Friday? The Big Issue Foundation? Traumatic Brain Injury Fund?

Thor's Brother Isn't Fair?

nitsua60

(all of the above)

5e's Traits/Bonds/Ideals/Flaws idea.

BESW

What about motive and relationships? Why are the PCs a group and what are they trying to do?

nitsua60

Ah, sorry. That's actually covered in the prologue text. "You stand on the road east of Solace. Five years ago you all left, seeking $STUFF, but have found nothing. But at last you return to reunite with your friends, blah blah blah."

BESW

I find that D&D stories work best when I ask all the players to come up with characters who have a good reason to work together--often that they're all part of a particular organization.

@nitsua60 Okay, so that's nice but you need to front-load it so the characters standing on that road are people who can fit comfortably into that backstory.

Give the backstory before chargen, so characters are generated who can work within it.

Otherwise I guarantee you'll wind up with "I'm a vampire cursed to work off my sins before I can return to my violent ways" and "I'm a druid sworn to purge the land of the undead" and then your opening session looks very different from how you planned.

nitsua60

2:20 AM

@BESW Good point. [returns to scribbling]

OneCritWonder

2:58 AM

Currently failing Constitution Saves versus homework.

Joel Harmon

@OneCritWonder Constitution or Will?

@nitsua60 Rules wise, you may wish to specify books that are allowed. Table wise, you may wish to cover how you see your GM style, what style of game you're going for, a kind of code of conduct for the players (if Weaton's Law isn't enough).

Oh, and alternate/optional rules you may be using.

trogdor

3:14 AM

Con definitely

Will is for resisting the urge not to do it

Con is when you decided to do it and got knee deep already

Axoren

This question needs "Catnap" from XGE, but I don't feel like posting a full answer.
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/124015/is-there-any-other-effect-that-induces-sleep-other-than-the-sleep-spell

Just because it's willing, doesn't mean it's not a sleep effect!

Joel Harmon

@trogdor Last seen on RPG.SE was 40 seconds ago, so I'm sticking with Will save on this one :)

trogdor

Fair enough

I will accept that assessment

I am currently making will saves not to go home early

kviiri

6:06 AM

There are bats living in our yard

trogdor

cute bats or scary bats?

kviiri

Pretty much all wildlife is more cute than scary up here. I did get scared by a bat once (in a tunnel in some old fortifications) but I was more startled by it than actually scared of it being a bat

Some evolutionary biologist would probably have good insights regarding why wildlife tends to be less poisonous and scary up North.

trogdor

@kviiri yeah that is the scariest thing to me, being surprised by something

BESW

Pretty much the only reason to be afraid of a bat is rabies, so far as I know.

Ben

Yup

I'd hardly want to cuddle any to begin with... but yeah, rabies is usually a red flag

kviiri

6:14 AM

yea

BESW

I wish we still had the fanihi here.

trogdor

@BESW well the actual reason I asked is because some people are scared of bats

BESW

Ben

6:30 AM

@BESW On a successful attack, the target is poisoned

BESW

Only if you eat the bat.

Ben

@trogdor Like Bruce Wayne?

@BESW Lol

trogdor

@Ben well he is too, but I mean real people

BESW

(They eat cycad nuts, which contain neurotoxins that accumulate in their flesh.)

@Ben Yes, Bruce Wayne is definitely one of the bats people are afraid of.

Batman: the Brave & the Bold "Drives Us Bats" Music Video

►

kviiri

7:42 AM

> Hardholders and savvyheads both get "non-specialized" or "normal" gear. These [referring to the following list of special gear] are the things they might not get. (Honestly though I never quibble with what they want, life's too short.)

Yet another piece of wisdom from Apocalypse World I had read before starting GM'ing it

Err, I mean, I wish I had read

BESW

8:20 AM

Note to self: the next time I need a scientific company as an antagonist, use David E. H. Jones' Daedalus Research Evaluation and Development Corporation (DREADCO).

trogdor

lol

kviiri

What was that company in Plague Dogs...

Oh yes, "Animal Research, Scientific and Experimental" or ARSE for short.

the film didn't really hide its support for the valiant efforts of brave scientists who perform complicated vivisections to advance science /s

BESW

(Jones wrote funny articles for New Scientist and Nature, posing as an inventor working for the fictional DREADCO, for almost forty years.)

Helwar

@BESW The dreaded long stupid names that make stupid acronyms trope strikes again

Also, name your company like the guy that has the "world's first" record on crashlanding :P

Helwar

8:51 AM

(See H.A.M.M.E.R , S.W.O.R.D and S.H.I.E.L.D (Marvel...))

BESW

I'm fond of the O2STK myself.

Helwar

@BESW I don't know that one

BESW

The Middleman doesn't know who he works for, so he and Ida call it the Organization Too Secret To Know.

Mike Q

Let's not forget about the Organization Without a Cool Acronym (OWCA)

BESW

And then there's the VACUUM BAG.

(The Beautiful Assistant Gangbuster who assists the Volunteer Agents Crusading Unsteadily Under Mongoose.)

Sdjz

9:02 AM

In this question the asker appears to have a second account and suggested an edit to his own question. I have no idea what to do with this.

BESW

(I can't remember if Mongoose and Cobra are acronyms in Secret Agents Four.)

@Sdjz Flag for moderator attention with a note to that effect.

@Helwar You missed the SHIELD branch for Alternate Reality Monitoring and Operational Responses.

(BTW, Secret Agents Four's Cobra pre-dates GI Joe's Cobra by 15 years.)

And the famous United Network Command for Law and Enforcement, which worked against the Technological Hierarchy for the Removal of Undesirables and the Subjugation of Humanity.

Can't forget UNIT.

doppelgreener

@kviiri "It's further from Australia" — some biologist, probably

@Sdjz It happens sometimes with new unregistered accounts. I approved that edit the other day and left this comment:

Specifically we've collected a list of forums here which we'd recommend. Also, you appear to have created two accounts -- you can follow these instructions to merge them. — doppelgreener ♦ yesterday

Sdjz

@doppelgreener Ah yes I saw this but still no idea if I should just approve the edit since it seems to be the same person or refuse since it seems to make the question significantly worse

doppelgreener

9:17 AM

Oooh, they made a new edit

Ok that morphs it into a totally different also very off topic question

I've rejected it

trogdor

lol

mighty morphin off topic questioooooooooons

doppelgreener

9:50 AM

@trogdor not as popular as the original series it spun off from

Derpy

464

Q: Exit strategies for "chameleon questions"

I'm not sure if there's already an existing term for this, so I'm inventing my own. (tl;dr: I call them "chameleon questions" because they change every time you submit or edit an answer. If you're already intimately familiar with the phenomenon, please skip past the first set of bullet points t...

trogdor

@doppelgreener I will prove you wrong, I will get a 2 million dollar budget and get a cult following of dozens of fans! you'll see

XD

Tiggerous

Maybe that series would do better on a different tv channel that it was actually 'on topic' for?

trogdor

Dozens I say! Dooooooooozennnnnns

doppelgreener

@trogdor dozens of fans! Goodness, that's quite a lot.

Derpy

9:59 AM

summer is coming, you will need a lot of fans

..... ok, sorry, this was pretty lame -_-'

trogdor

dozens

doppelgreener

Those are metal fans, we need television show fans

BESW

Derpy

@BESW can I use my sensu instead of those?

BESW

I'm not sure the Fan Museum would approve.

trogdor

10:12 AM

I must acquire these fans

daring heist ensures, Oceans literally dozens

kviiri

The Irish casino heist, O'Sean's Eleven

(disclaimer: I have no idea if O'Sean'd be a valid Irish name. Never use me as a reference)

trogdor

application accepted

Derpy

btw, little trivia.. I seem to remember the sensu too was sometime turned in a tessen surrogate.

by which I mean that some tessen were indeed disguised as actual tea ceremony sensu fans.

BESW

10:30 AM

For tonight's dinner I marinated tuna in soy and calamansi, then chopped and pan-fried it in olive oil, sesame oil, ginger, garlic, and black pepper, with some chopped micro-greens thrown in at the end. Then I roasted some sunflower seeds in the pan and added oil, green beans, and a bit of water and put the lid on to steam 'em for a bit.

Serving both together with cheddar cheese in a burrito.

goodguy5

11:13 AM

Good morning, Imaginauts!

Sdjz

@goodguy5 Are we all no longer nerds? :(

goodguy5

that's up to you! If you're a nerd in your heart, then that's what matters.

Thank you.

who? for what?

You, for the change.

11:17 AM

Also, that dinner sounds amazing

kviiri

I like the sound of Imaginaut

goodguy5

I considered imagineer, but I think that's trademarked by Disney or something

kviiri

I used to work for an indie computer culture mag (gaming, demoscene, programming, computer science, history of computing etc) which was often informally summarized as "nerd culture", but the term itself was discouraged, not particularly because of being derogatory but because it's so meaninglessly wide

BESW

Yeah, I'm not comfortable with the "nerd" group label, or really the idea that one of my hobbies automatically makes me part of any subculture.

kviiri

Boxes and labels

BESW

11:23 AM

(If folks wonder why it's hard to get new people to participate in RPGs, I think it's not irr🐘 that so many people in the hobby assume playing RPGs is part of a bundle package with many unrelated shibboleths and behaviors.)

kviiri

Yeah

Joel Harmon

@BESW On the one hand, we do tend to love our shibboleths. On the other, I think there's a broader marketing problem, wherein people simply don't understand the scope of RPGs. How many new questions do we get from people who think RPG == D&D?

doppelgreener

There is definitely a marketing problem there, mainly propagated by WotC though.

Joel Harmon

(Also, I find it ironic that your statement on shibboleths contained one, namely "irr🐘")

BESW

@JoelHarmon Contrariwise, how many RPGs are you aware of that don't fit into the category of common "nerd subculture" references?

doppelgreener

11:26 AM

Generally advertising and/or allowing people to believe that D&D does absolutely anything.

BESW

That's one reason I'm so happy when I run into RPGs like Bubblegumshoe and Dog Eat Dog.

Joel Harmon

@BESW Off the top of my head, I have three genres for RPG games: Fantasy, Science Fiction, and Generic.

kviiri

@JoelHarmon Is it a problem if I consider none of those three to actually be genres?

Joel Harmon

@kviiri Nope. You can think of them as broad categories if you like.

kviiri

Fantasy and science-fiction describe setting but not really what the game is about.

Joel Harmon

11:29 AM

And anyway, my mental model of the universe doesn't dictate yours except where I can convince you it should.

BESW

Also the divide between fantasy and scifi is effectively meaningless in practice--especially once you get past the monolithic "classics" of each category.

After reading Binti and Broken Earth I'm just going with "specfic" and calling it a day.

Joel Harmon

I have a good friend who believes Star Wars is Fantasy, because it's more about the hero's journey than about fictional science.

BESW

@JoelHarmon And I know someone who thinks it's not fantasy if there are talking animals but no humans, and that allegory is mutually exclusive with either fantasy or science fiction.

kviiri

Yeah, for the borderline curse word "magic" seems to be to some hardcore sci-fi fans (not trying to generalize here - this sentiment seems rather uncommon, if still prominent) quite few classics of sci-fi actually are completely free of it.

Joel Harmon

@BESW It's like these aren't well-defined terms or something.

kviiri

11:32 AM

@JoelHarmon Which is a part (but only a part!) about why I think they're poor as genre labels :)

BESW

I find that with RPGs, it's more useful in my own head to categorize by the feels the games are designed to give me.

Youjay

Should I let my player see a home brew wild magic table? or should they roll and I'll tell them what happens? My player has a habit of just rolling and reacting without telling me what they rolled.

BESW

What system are you using? For some systems that's working as intended, and for others it's very clearly not.

Joel Harmon

@kviiri For a bunch of pedants arguing on an RPG forum, I think you're right. But if I were to explain to a generic Westerner what an RPG setting is like, I'd likely start with Lord of the Rings, Star [Trek|Wars], or ask if they've seen some particular other show or subgenre (zombie movies, horror, etc). This is what gives rise to the rough categories.

BESW

(Or, what problems is the player's behavior causing?)

Youjay

11:35 AM

D&D 5e

kviiri

@JoelHarmon Yes, RPG setting, but that's different isn't it ;)

Youjay

And the problem is he'll roll and just say, "not good" or "alright" and by that point he's put his dice away so we can't check.

I've spoken to him about it and he wants to change, but its kind of a gut reaction at this point.

kviiri

@Youjay My honest answer is that wild magic tables are bad and shouldn't be used in DnD 5e, including the stock one. If you really want to keep it in, I think it's fair that the player is aware of the risks their character is taking when casting spells.

Youjay

Fair enough

Joel Harmon

@kviiri I'd start with setting, then possibly branch out to the "8 kinds of fun" article to explain how mechanics and rules impact the experience. Monopoly and Risk and Football are all games, but have different experiences and appeal.

Youjay

11:39 AM

On a different note, are there any tips for a DM on how to shorten game sessions? cause its getting to a point were people are struggling to make it because of how long they take.

kviiri

@JoelHarmon Hm, I tend to think of setting as something of rather secondary importance (but more than zero, of course!) in RPGs. I think that generally a tactical combat-heavy sci-fi game feels more like a tactical combat-heavy fantasy game than a social-focused sci-fi game.

Sdjz

@Youjay You may be interested in this: How to run short sessions?

kviiri

@Youjay We just usually stop when someone expresses they'd like to stop, after finishing our immediate situation (combat or such)

Youjay

Thanks so much!

BESW

@Youjay More specifically:

23

Q: How can we better fit our D&D campaign into 30 minute sessions?

My players and I meet each day at lunch at our school to play our D&D game. The lunch period is only about 30 minutes, which gives us a very short time frame in which to advance the game. Once everything is set up, we only have about 25 minutes to play. I've tinkered with my adventure writing te...

dnd-5e time session

10

Q: How to improve pace of my sessions?

I'm running a campaign for about two years (around one session a month) and I'm unhappy with the pace of events. In those two years we covered not even two months of game time with single session advancing the clock by only few days. I see multiple problems with that The sessions are uneven, so...

dnd-5e gm-techniques pacing

Joel Harmon

11:42 AM

@kviiri You're not wrong there. I think my context might be biasing me, because I was just looking at another question where the poster didn't seem to know there was more than just D&D, and I find it easiest to explain that by starting with settings, which most people would have better context for than mechanics, because they've seen and thought about settings before.

kviiri

@Youjay out of curiosity, how long do your sessions run?

Joel Harmon

Sorry, I need to run.

BESW

@Youjay Ah, so maybe some social engineering techniques might be in order to help him break the habit.

kviiri

@JoelHarmon Take care! :)

brb, shower

BESW

Easiest way: As the GM in D&D 5e it's your call when a roll is needed and when it's not. So you hold the dice and hand the players the dice when it's time for them to roll.

Youjay

11:44 AM

they typically run for around 7-8 hours with a half an hour break for food. Im trying to get it to more around 3-4. I think the biggest time sync a lack of a significant end point (something Im gonna change for future sessions since I'm starting a new campaign) and players making jokes that take way too long to get back on track.

that second thing is what I'm more worried about, especially since we've got a new player who also a bit of a clown.

nitsua60

Oh, that's a different beast.

"Hey, I'm having trouble fitting these marathon sessions into my schedule. I need us to switch down to 4-hr sessions if I'm going to keep running this game."

Youjay

pretty much yeah XD

i don't expect this to change overnight. But I am hoping to change it sooner rather than latter. and a new campaigns as good a place as any.

BESW

21

A: How to cut back on pre-game joking?

I don't have much experience with play-by-email games, so these are probably less useful in that context, I'm afraid. Don't be subtle. For any of these strategies, tell the players straight up what you're doing and why. Solicit their opinions and ideas, and create space for feedback about the t...

(Not exactly the same problem, but the techniques are applicable.)

16

Q: How do I keep things serious in a session while keeping the fun?

I've started playing in a Pathfinder campaign with some friends and we are all newbies. Despite this our gamemaster (who's running his first campaign too) is doing a good job of getting us all involved and creating the atmosphere. Problem is, 3 out of us 5 players are really, really hard to get...

roleplaying group-dynamics tone

14

Q: How to ease new players into taking the game seriously?

I was a player in a group that all took things seriously and roleplayed our characters to the best of our ability. That group unfortunately fell apart and I've started up a new game with a different group of friends, this time as the GM. Unfortunately, while my last group was full of people who...

players gaming-style

nitsua60

@Youjay And a large change like halving the time may have knock-on effects like nudging the group's focus-needle closer to the RPG end and farther from the hanging-out end.

Youjay

Fucking Amazing, you guys are the best! Thank you SO much

BESW

11:51 AM

6

Q: Is it up to the DM or to the player to "fix" a tone problem in the group?

Playing in a friend's campaign and the other PC is difficult to play against, to the point that it's frustrating me both in and out of character. The DM and I are playing a high-magic, god-touched struggle against good and evil where I'm having an amazing time living out my existential crisis, ...

dnd-5e problem-players tone

You're welcome! But we like to keep the language mild around here, please.

nitsua60

But it's also an opportune time to pull that one person aside to say "now that we'll only have half the time, can I ask that you rein in the goofing off by 20%? I'm worried about my ability to keep the story moving with the new time constraint...."

@BESW We're okay with being Regular Amazing around here =)

kviiri

@Youjay Kudos to you for seeking to improve your group's experience!

BESW

Woo!

Derpy

I do wonder... what technology was @BESW built with?

Does it use Microsoft Cognitive Services?

BESW

12:13 PM

Nov 5 '13 at 17:07, by BESW

Microsoft could buy me a pony and a place to keep it and I wouldn't forgive them.

Derpy

12:29 PM

@BESW ..... and now I won't forgive me for trying to read up the context of that claim, only to end up reading the message right after yours.

Self reminder: do not follow links to original sources of BESW quotes.

BESW

Dark times for the chat. Dark times.

kviiri

It's almost 4 PM

I think I should finally have some lunch

brb

NautArch

1:03 PM

howdy howdy

Helwar

howdy!

NautArch

gameday tonight :) Gettin' on that DM railroad!

and just enjoying the ride

oh god, it's a @AVeryLargeBear! Everyone hide yo honey!

Helwar

i go this weekend to a friend's beach house. We planned to do beach & dnd. It's raining so much that you can swim in the air (almost), so I think it's gonna be DND and no beach

NautArch

@Helwar water-based adventures?

Helwar

as long as said adventures don't destroy my new (still smell like new-new) books, I'm ok with it

kviiri

1:14 PM

@Helwar Hehe, we plan to do this every Summer but we're too busy doing everything else to play TTRPGs

The weather's been nice every year. Or tolerable at least

A Very Large Bear

@NautArch I'm actually much more partial to blueberries, thank you.

NautArch

@AVeryLargeBear uhoh. stay away from my blueberry bushes! I've got enough trouble with chipmunks.

Derpy

@Helwar Here comes the silverfish (Lepisma saccharina) army.

NautArch

@Derpy ohgodno.

A Very Large Bear

@NautArch Chipmunks are tasty too. Lots of good crunch.

maybe we can come to an arrangement

kviiri

1:20 PM

Blueberries are objectively speaking good but I can't help comparing them to wild bilberries that are much better :<

A Very Large Bear

@kviiri I mean really, wild wineberries are where it's at.

Helwar

wineberries? AKA grape? :P

A Very Large Bear

Nope :P en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubus_phoenicolasius

kviiri

Blackcurrant's Finnish name literally translates as "black wine berry", so you almost got me (they're really good too btw)

BESW

"Wild Wineberries" sounds like the name of a vineyard the Scooby Gang thinks is haunted.

Derpy

1:23 PM

@kviiri Matcha flavored cupcake, raspberry flavored cream cheese frosting, blueberry topping

kviiri

@BESW So does "Wizards of Wine" which actually is the name of a winery in Curse of Strahd

Helwar

@AVeryLargeBear I was being flippant :P

A Very Large Bear

@Helwar Ahh, my apologies :)

kviiri

On my childhood home's yard, we had a hedge separating us from the neighbors and grew raspberries and redcurrants

it was delightful

Then one year the hedge just stopped growing raspberries, for reasons unknown :(

goodguy5

wine berries are so good, but the deer usually get to them T_T

nitsua60

1:27 PM

@kviiri Which led our group to many mentions of the "Wizards of Wine's wine's winery wizards..." and other such perambulations =D

Helwar

@kviiri when I was young my grandpa used to take us for a walk, adn the place I live in was largely unedificated. We used to eat just wild berries here and there. Until one day my mom told me not to do that because they would cause me a stomachache. I have not been able to eat a single berry since O_o

I know it's stupid, but they feel gross to me now :S

NautArch

@kviiri Do blueberries i'm growing in my yard count as wild?

kviiri

Well, I understand the value of some apprehensiveness about what one eats and not

But outright excluding a source of fresh natural produce seems a bit nasty, yep

@NautArch If you're growing them, they're not technically wild I guess?

Bilberries are as far as I know rather hard to grow in controlled conditions. No idea why though

nitsua60

Did you plant them? Do you prune them? Do you clear the ground around them so that they'll thrive?

Helwar

I'm a veeeeeeeeeeery picky eater anyway. I'm one of those people that finnishes earlier if i tell you what I eat, vs telling you what I don't

Rubiksmoose

1:33 PM

In the upper peninsula of Michigan there is an amazing wild berry called a thimble berry. to my knowledge it only grows in the wild. It is also incredibly fragile so there's no way to commercialize them. they are so good though.

Helwar

@Rubiksmoose For what it's worth... I've read that word before, thimble berry

kviiri

Vaccinium myrtillus

Vaccinium myrtillus is a species of shrub with edible fruit of blue color, commonly called "bilberry", "wimberry", "whortleberry", or European blueberry. It has much in common with the American blueberry (Vaccinium cyanococcus). It is more precisely called common bilberry or blue whortleberry, to distinguish it from other Vaccinium relatives. Regional names include blaeberry, urts (Cornwall), hurtleberry, huckleberry, wimberry, whinberry, winberry, blueberry, and fraughan. == Range == Vaccinium myrtillus is found natively in Europe, northern Asia, Greenland, Iceland, Western Canada, and ...

That one's the real deal

Derpy

@kviiri quite clearly, the Raspberry Fairy must have moved to a new bush. Did you do anything that could have bugged her off, like planting a bush of Blackberries near the hedge (it is a known fact that the Raspberry and the BlackBerry fairies are great rivals and enemy)?

Rubiksmoose

@Helwar Yeah I'm sure it is not exclusive to here. And most likely the same name could have been applied to multiple different berries.

NautArch

@nitsua60 Yes, not yet, yes. SO I guess not wild :)

Helwar

1:41 PM

Guys, are puzzles that are impossible to complete "at the moment" unfair? If enough hints at that impossibility are given, of course.

SHall I ask this as an actual question?

or is too opinion based?

Rubiksmoose

@Helwar Too broad as written. If you want to ask ask about a specific puzzle and setup IMO.

Helwar

Yeah I have a personal situation that involves this kind of thing so I could be more specific

Rubiksmoose

But no, I would say such puzzles are not unfair. Take Zelda dungeons as a good example. There are plenty of puzzles whose solution lies only after other parts have been solved. And Zelda dungeons are not generally considered unfair.

Derpy

define "at the moment"

kviiri

Fairness and unfairness are heavily genre-dependent, though.

Rubiksmoose

1:45 PM

The important thing, as you mention, is somehow making it clear that they are not intended to solve it yet. That can be very difficult to pull off if players expect every puzzle to be solvable upon encountering and self-contained.

Helwar

"at the moment", in my case, they needed something from OUTSIDE the place

kviiri

Puzzles in RPGs are, in general, a rather difficult topic. The vital thing, IMO, is making sure your players understand the role of the puzzle the same way you do.

Helwar

so they would have needed to go and fetch it in order to complete

@Rubiksmoose that's my problem I think

Rubiksmoose

Yeah there are a lot of aspects to this.

kviiri

I need to pack my stuff, I'll pop back later. Toodle-doo

NautArch

1:46 PM

Now I want to homebrew a monster pair that can do what the Seer/Hulk can't.

Rubiksmoose

For example, I can see as a player thinking something is unfair if the need for that item was not made clear and if the trek back to the outside is a pointless divergence.

Or maybe not unfair so much as irksome.

Helwar

I will write it as an actual question, where I can elaborate more. Maybe get some advice as to how to solve this issue, now that my players are unsatisfied with the results ...

Rubiksmoose

@Helwar I think that is a good idea. I reccommend including really as much information about the issue as you can including how many other such puzzles you have thrown at them.

Colin Gross

@Helwar Do your players like puzzles?

Helwar

I was so happy a few minutes ago knowing that I had a whole weekend for DND to look forward to, and then they started "joking" about how I make impossible puzzles and I got annoyed

Derpy

1:49 PM

well, my approach would come from a video game design oriented approach more than a table top one, but I would also focus on resolving the related problem.

Helwar

@ColinGross yeah, but until now everything I've done with them was solvable inmediately

Derpy

IE "the trek back to the outside fell like it is a pointless divergence."

Helwar

Maybe I should've outright tell them what they needed to do when they got stuck with it

or tell them to move along and come later

goodguy5

you could always leave notes from other adventurers

maybe some rations

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 That is a fun idea.

@Helwar That is always an option. And you as a DM just kind of has to gauge if the players are going to have more fun if you tip your hand a bit or if they really value the immersion.

kviiri

1:55 PM

@Helwar In general that's preferable to letting them stay stuck

goodguy5

Something like "you find enough spent rations for a small group to have been here for 2-3 days. a few exhausted torches adorn the ground (litterbugs!). Several chalk diagrams are roughly sketched next to the macguffin"

Helwar

@kviiri at the moment I thought It would be like backseat playing their game and left them to their devices.. now I'm not so sure

Rubiksmoose

As a group going through a trap and puzzle laden labyrinth right now, I can tell you that there have been some puzzles that we requested the DM wave because we weren't having fun with them.

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose that's a better solution than "i'll let you trade XP for a hint"

kviiri

@Helwar It's an understandable reaction, but I think the importance of staying "in-character" at all times is generally exaggerated

Rubiksmoose

1:58 PM

@NautArch One of the puzzles in question was designed such that the rules were unclear and it was basically turning into a brute forcing of the solution which was taking a lot of time and we were already so over it. Luckily he took the news ok and let us hand wave the brute forcing away and pass the puzzle.

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