TRPG General Chat

Yuuki

00:08

Okay, now the name "bird of paradise" makes a lot more sense.

BESW

@Yuuki More than that, the plant is named for a specific family of birds called birds-of-paradise. Here's some males displaying:

It's not just "looks like a bird," it's "looks like this particular bird wow that's weird."

nitsua60

BESW

In the case of the bird of paradise flower, the bird it looks like is from a totally different part of the world.

The flower's cool pointy bits are perches for its pollinator, the sunbird:

They rest on the perch, which opens up the flower and gets pollen on their feet so they can carry it to the next plant.

Maiko Chikyu

Guys. I just did a self answer question. Is it possible for you guys to check it and tell me whether i did any formatting mistakes or not?

BESW

00:23

I'm not familiar enough with Pathfinder's intricacies to be useful here, but you might get more eyes on it if your request for proof-reading included a link to the thing you want people to proofread.

Yuuki

00:40

BESW

Mike Q

01:16

@MaikoChikyu Unsure about formatting mistakes, but from the question and title, it was confusing what you were trying to ask. The title says "without money expenditure", the question refers to the resources of an 18th level player character, and the answer doesn't have any math other than how to maximize the strength ability score. I was confused but you self-answered, so maybe it's ok?

Magician

05:07

@BESW Interesting point. Though I think players rejecting authorship powers in Fate is akin to players rejecting the very notion of using violence to solve problems in D&D - they can do it, and the system still functions well enough, but you're probably better off with a different system anyway.

trogdor

05:27

it does seem like one of the biggest reasons to stick with the system

BESW

10:07

Hmm. What system would you recommend for open-ended descriptive-phrased-driven mechanics where players' agency is largely confined to character agency?

Helwar

@BESW I have absolutely no idea

I'd like to say Mutants and Masterminds is quite open ended, but it's also quite rules heavy during combat :S

Tiggerous

16 answers in and I finally lost my 100% streak (of accepted answers).

It's a sad day.

BESW

10:23

I'm thinking some variants of Cortex, perhaps.

But I don't know the system very well--I've just seen hacks of it.

Helwar

@BESW I don't know that game at all. Honestly I can count the systems I know with the fingers of one hand

BESW

@Helwar I know of a great many systems, and about a good several handful of them. The systems I've actually read are even fewer, and the systems I've played fewer still--especially if you count all the minor variants of a system as a single system.

Helwar

HUmm

I have the Discworld book, but I don't know how to play it. It's not clear to me

BESW

And since "a system" can range from several thousand pages and many years of play like D&D 3.5 to a single sheet paper and an hour of play like Honey Heist...

Helwar

I think I need GURPS to understand it?

(Honey Heist rules, it's there with Maid in the "random laughs when you don't know what to play" category :P )

BESW

10:36

@Helwar This one says it's "a complete roleplaying game. You need no other books to play."

Helwar

yeah, but maybe I'm too stupid, maybe reading it and not playing it is what makes it difficult to get, but I feel like I'm missing something

like if I was reading a campaign scenario, not a complete game

Mine doesn't have that cover, but maybe it's because the spanish editor changed it or something

BESW

Well, it is GURPS, which has a reputation for overwhelming complexity.

So, when a game says "cloth armor," from now on I'm imagining this.

Helwar

@BESW what is that?

BESW

One of Tracie Peisley's "floral armor" artworks.

Helwar

that looks like it goes on a bull or something like that

Nzall

11:11

would the question "is there ever a reason to not choose the highest modifier on a Finesse weapon attack" be on-topic?

or something similar to that

Essentially, the rules for Finesse say you can choose the modifier you want to use, but it seems weird to give that choice when at a glance picking the highest modifier always seems the best choice

Sdjz

@Nzall well I can think of some situations where you might want to deal damage but as little as possible

like giving your allies saving throws on some charm effects

although an unarmed strike might just be better then

Nzall

@Sdjz I mean, isn't stowing your weapon a full action?

or is that a bonus action?

Sdjz

@Nzall I think you can use your free object interaction for that, but yeah, ok there might be some very specific situations where you don't want to do that

I think there are several effects where there is a choice but you mostly just choose the highest one. Take a look at the Lucky feat for example: "You choose which of the d20s is used for the attack roll, ability check, or saving throw." Of course you are going to choose the highest most of the time

goodguy5

12:00

morning nerds

kviiri

Sup!

Cottage trip to Turku archipelago today! \o/

goodguy5

I assume you're already in Finland?

and did you mean cottage, as in you have a cottage there?

kviiri

12:15

I don't, but a friend does... for a while, at least

(and yeah, I am)

goodguy5

that's awesome! Have fun. ^_^

I assume you can fish and swim and stuff?

kviiri

It's his late granddad's and we're visiting it before they sell it

@goodguy5 Yup! Although I'm not much of a fisherman :P

The water's a wee bit on the chilly side (11 degrees Celsius they said) but that hasn't really stopped me before x)

Mostly we're going to eat well, enjoy the weather, try not to get ticks and relax in the sauna

goodguy5

11C, what's that in freedom units?

11*9/5+32
51?

KorvinStarmast

12:31

@goodguy5 That's water that will induce hypothermia in a brief space of time when you are immersed in it.

goodguy5

well, tell that to kviiri

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 kviiri is welcome to take such risks as he's willing to handle ...

SPavel

kviiri is Finnish

kviiri

Hypothermia is normally a Tuesday thing yes

It's also going to be a musical trip, I packed my favorite instruments

Harmonica, recorder flute and kazoo

KorvinStarmast

@SPavel I am aware of that; being Russian or Finnish won't change physics. I am also aware of the various Walrus Clubs in northern climes (we have them in the US); take whatever risks you are comfortable with.

nitsua60

12:39

> being Russian or Finnish won't change physics.

[citation needed]

=)

Rubiksmoose

Morning folks :)

goodguy5

:wave:

Tiggerous

Afternoon.

David Coffron

@Rubiksmoose Cheers

Rubiksmoose

Well fine, since we are all in different points on the Earth relative to the sun: Happy Friday?

Tiggerous

12:44

Happy Friday to you too.

nitsua60

> we are all in different points on the Earth relative to the sun.

[citation needed]

=)

Rubiksmoose

@Rubiksmoose New chat rule: all statements must be backed up by peer reviewed science.

lol

David Coffron

@Rubiksmoose You violated your own rule in that statement (jstor.org/stable/4500873)

SPavel

@Rubiksmoose As a peer, I am now offering a discount on reviews of any science you would like to bring to me, 1 science = $1

NautArch

@nitsua60 With regard to section headings...I'm wondering/hoping (haven't checked) that DNDbeyond organizes things the same way. You can search (which is great), but i'm not sure the results give you all the informatin you'd need to properly direct people to a location in a book.

Rubiksmoose

12:51

@SPavel Oh man that is a good bargain on Science... it is almost never that cheap.

@NautArch Sometimes it does, but other times it is harder. And it depends. For example, if you search for "Bard" you can find the Bard section of the PHB but also "Bard (class)" a section in DnDB that Brings together all the Bard class information from all the sources and doesn't say where to find those particular sources.

The later of which can be found here for example: dndbeyond.com/characters/classes/bard

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose yeah that's what I was thinking (and just did in my Quaal's token answer)

how does that citation work for you?

Rubiksmoose

@DavidCoffron oh man, you read my mind with that meta question. Was literally just about to broach that subject as well +1

@NautArch In what way do you mean?

SPavel

@Rubiksmoose yeah it's a limited time offer, typically it's a 4:1 gold:science conversion

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose the parenthetical "citations" i have in my answer

David Coffron

@SPavel Are gems considered liquid or do I have to get them appraised?

NautArch

13:01

i'm super surprised at my last point, though.

Rubiksmoose

@NautArch ohhh I see. I'll check it out.

@DavidCoffron I find that melting my gems tends to negatively affect their value. :P

David Coffron

@NautArch Maybe add the section heading (Magic Items IIRC) since the specific item is not in the Table of Contents (though it is in the Index)

Rubiksmoose

@DavidCoffron STOP READING MY MIND

NautArch

@DavidCoffron good idea. Kind of a pain to search and then have to go back to the compendium to see how it's actually organized. But that's my digital burden, I guess.

David Coffron

@NautArch I meant like this (pseudo-MLA format). Feel free to revert if you want.

Rubiksmoose

13:05

@NautArch Interesting to note however, there are actual page citations at the bottom of pages on magic items (unless they make them up like the Guardian's amulet :-|)

EG Quaal's is on DMG p. 188

SPavel

@DavidCoffron I will also appraise your gems for $1 per gem

David Coffron

@SPavel at my work we have some "gems" for 1.99 lol

SPavel

@DavidCoffron Oh, we have a lot of "gems" in the code base

The best part of my job is that, if I’m reading my contract correctly, my Elminster/Raistlin slash fic is canon. #wotcstaff

Tweeted by mikemearls on May 25, 2018 at 4:38 AM

Mearls is right

Rubiksmoose

@DavidCoffron so about your meta: it seems to me that the most obvious solution is just to watch posts for this behavior, and roll back changes that OP makes in response to answers and comment telling them that that behavior is not good. Is there any reason you see us needing a system beyond that?

David Coffron

Yeah. See here. Seems to imply that answers should change rather than questions. Making an exception for question-changes of this nature does make sense though.

Rubiksmoose

13:21

Yeah though even in that answer they kind of alluded to this issue "If the question was changed because the OP has refined what they wanted to ask as a result of feedback on their question... That's a grey area, and we'll have to deal with it on a case-by-case basis. In some cases it'll be appropriate to revert the change and ask a new question; In others, to let the edit stand and update or downvote and delete old answers."

David Coffron

Yeah missed that line... Seems like that policy is good

NautArch

@Rubiksmoose now i'm feeling kinda stupid. Hadn't noticed that.

perception fail.

David Coffron

Argh 5e

NautArch

@DavidCoffron i'm not sold on that interpretation

goodguy5

@NautArch why not? seems like it checks out to me?

David Coffron

13:33

If anything its just ambiguous. Hence my argh

goodguy5

Oh, I just reread it

The Oracle

3

Q: Can we develop a system to avoid/discourage subsequent hombrew critique question edits?

While our policy on homebrew-critique questions makes a lot of sense as the questions are certainly able to be answered effectively by experts and fit all the criteria for an on-topic question, these questions often take a sharp turn fast. Soon after the answers to these questions come in we of...

goodguy5

Wouldn't it be for 9 hours, rather than 144 miles? what if you have speed altering affects?

NautArch

@goodguy5 See my answer addendum at the end.

@DavidCoffron Definitely agree it's ambiguous. Just not sure why you'd need to read it with a further limitation.

Helwar

13:53

@TheOracle I answered this, it's my first meta post, and I did it scraping a few minutes here and there while I'm on my job

so it might be bad...

if I could get a peer review, at least for format, it would be wondrous

David Coffron

@Helwar looks fine. Maybe some headings for neatness but formatting is okay

NautArch

I did not notice that Bag of Tricks errata. I mean, it's not a big deal because waking up a tossing an animal out is really nothing.

David Coffron

@NautArch what does it change? (Away from book rn)

NautArch

@DavidCoffron disappears at dawn now (or at 0 HP)

solves the feeding problem, too :)

David Coffron

Ah.

NautArch

14:02

it's the first thing my bard does in the morning, anyway.

well, that and do a lyre solo for Inpsiring Leader.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch The second thing he does is feed the roc.

> use the bag of tricks to produce a daily ration of "roccy snacks" so that the bird doesn't get too hungry.

> the diet is varied since one rolls for random animals on each usage.

Rubiksmoose

If it disappears after 144 miles regardless, they'd be no reason to ever mention how far it could travel in a day. While you argument is axiomatically logical, I'm not sure the conclusion makes sense of the full wording. — Tiggerous 21 mins ago

Yeah this is what I thought as well.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast oh my. that's a great idea!

Rubiksmoose

@Helwar how many sciences do you think this review is worth?

KorvinStarmast

Heheheh, in fun with rocs thinking, what if the party flies only 140 miles, thinks it has the roc for the next day, but the roc gets hungry and goes off hunting for breakfast. 4 miles later, POOF! RocBeGone! (It ends in tears, as do so many great ideas ...)

Helwar

14:09

@Rubiksmoose I dunno... One?

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch I have this visual image (similar to my golden retriever's love of doggy snacks) of the roc eagerly snapping up a boar for his morning snack...

> And then giving me "that look" when I offer up a panther.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast Or of that joyous moment of creation when the boar hopes out of the bag, only to be eaten shortly after.

But i'm not sure those animals are really big enough to be of interest for the Roc.

roc seldom hunts swift or small creatures

KorvinStarmast

> I am positing a snack, not a full meal ...

Helwar

@NautArch dogs seldom hunt for treats, but they sure like them :P

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Giant Elk would be more like a meal. (number 8 on the gray bag of tricks)

Giant Goat, Brown Bear. Giant Boar.

(Rust Bag of Tricks)

Rubiksmoose

14:13

@Helwar BTW your answer looks good and I like the suggestion.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast yah, good point.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch heh, my morning snack awaits me near the coffee machine ... afk.

Helwar

@Rubiksmoose thanks!

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast bag of Doughnuts? Or Kolaches for you?

Yuuki

Could also be coffee.

NautArch

14:20

@Yuuki bag of coffee? Is Dunkin's Box of Joe a magic item?

Yuuki

+1 to initiative checks?

NautArch

but you may have to leave combat to go to the bathroom.

Yuuki

That's what Jarate is for.

Rubiksmoose

@Helwar I actually added a modified version of your idea to my answer as well because I think it definitely has merit...

Let me know if that feels like I'm stealing your answer or something though.

Helwar

Can't read it now but go for it

if it feels like I added something to the comunity its ok for me

Rubiksmoose

14:42

DnD but the group i play with kind of just mix all the editions together. — Apollo 13 mins ago

David Coffron

I was literally about to quote that. You got me back!

Rubiksmoose

Whoooo boy. I would not want to be in charge of adjudicating rules for that game.

David Coffron

I had it in the chat bar lol

Rubiksmoose

Woohoo! About time lol

If you are playing a mix of all the editions (which are not compatible and require some work to be "mutually-intelligible"), it might be better to ask your DM, which will know better than us what rules they choose for your case. — Luris 7 mins ago

"some work" lol

goodguy5

yes. the Great Wall of China required "some work". That "some" just turned out to be a MFT

Rubiksmoose

14:45

How much is that in EFTs?

goodguy5

I don't know what the conversion for Metric to English is

Rubiksmoose

lol

goodguy5

A metric ton is more than an imperial ton
an eff-ton is more than a metric ton
and an metric eff ton has to be more again, right?

Rubiksmoose

@goodguy5 Logic seems solid.

goodguy5

;)

David Coffron

14:50

I think I might try to marry all the editions just for fun

Rubiksmoose

@DavidCoffron You are a madman.

Yuuki

@DavidCoffron You'll never lose that bonus to AC since the system is all around you.

Smart man.

Rubiksmoose

@Yuuki HAH!

So I looked into this before, but regarding that question: there is nothing stopping a wizard from using an ioun stone to give every party member their own familiar is there?

David Coffron

@Rubiksmoose I'll give it a gaudy name like "D&D Ultimate Edition"

Yuuki

@Rubiksmoose Looking up the ioun stone, my initial guess is that by RAW nothing stops you from doing just that.

David Coffron

14:58

@Yuuki shhh. My players might do that. One already has a pet dog from back story. Stahp it

Rubiksmoose

@Yuuki Yeah I can't see any reason why it would not work. Seems like an interesting use of it. If we didn't have so many creatures around already I might bring it up to our wizard and do it in our campaign lol

Plus I wouldn't want to steal his familiar spotlight.

Yuuki

Assuming that attunement doesn't wipe the ioun stone's memory. And given that there's a rule that an ioun stone you find might already have spells in it, that's not the case.

Also:

10

Q: Can a non-caster class gain a familiar from a Reserve Ioun Stone containing Find Familiar?

A Reserve Ioun Stone can store up to three levels worth of spells and can be used by anyone. While the spell uses the same stats as the original caster (DC, spell attack, and ability modifier, slot used if upcast) the follow up text says that the spell is treated as if cast by you. Does this ...

dnd-5e spells magic-items familiars

Rubiksmoose

Well wadya know... I've even read that before and completely forgot.

goodguy5

Some idiot pinged @ everyone in a discord I'm in for a bot that I don't use anymore. Then when I asked him about it, he just said "reasons, scroll up and read it yourself"

and that's one less discord I'm in

David Coffron

@goodguy5 wow...

goodguy5

15:09

@Rubiksmoose It's funny. A friend of mine said the same thing this week....

Rubiksmoose

Plot twist: I am your friend.

goodguy5

I'm like.... 99% sure you're not

If you can successfully give me their name, then I'll be significantly less sure

Rubiksmoose

I think you meant to say my name yes?

goodguy5

*the name

Rubiksmoose

Well clearly it is Jeremy.

goodguy5

15:14

nope.

Rubiksmoose

Darn that would have been incredible otherwise.

goodguy5

yea, you had like a 1/200 chance.

which, in terms of random guesses, aint bad

Rubiksmoose

sigh

goodguy5

15:42

I definitely like doing that to people that say something like "you look like someone I know" to me.

Pick a name. "oh? Mark. he's great"

or whatever

one day, I'm going to get it right

the closest I've gotten is "Weird, that's my brother's name"

Helwar

pssst.... pssst... hey... what's an XY problem?

6

Q: How are features that automatically deal damage to be balanced?

There are a few spells and other features that can automatically deal damage, but it's very rare. The most common example I can think of is magic missile, which strikes unerringly and deals its damage with no attack roll or saving throw involved. Some area effect spells like cloud of daggers also...

dnd-5e balance

Sdjz

1306

Q: What is the XY problem?

What is the XY problem? When asking questions, how do I recognize when I'm falling into it? How do I avoid it? Return to FAQ index

discussion faq asking-questions terminology

Helwar

Oh

thank you very much kind sir

or... lady. Human. Human is best.

Sdjz

@Helwar I'm actually a key, stop oppressing me

Rubiksmoose

15:57

@Sdjz Everyone knows you don't oppress a key you orotate it.

Helwar

@Sdjz let me rephrase: Thank you very much kind sentient being!

goodguy5

Magic Missile does ~10.5 damage total
Burning Hands does ~3.75-7.5 damage to some number of targets. I think balance design assumes two targets for balance.
so 7.5-15 damage. I think average Dex saves for level 1-2 monsters +2.
So, they have a 50% chance of success
Which gives us 11.25 expected damage
Chromatic Orb Deals ~ 13.5*.5+.05*27 = ~8 damage, but is very versatile.

Delioth

@Helwar Ugh, there you go again, assuming states of existence. Why must we consider everything as "being"? Why won't you recognize that I'm definitely "wasing" or "will-being"?

Helwar

As for by my point of view, of a sentient being flowing through time, you either are or you arent, and as I was interacting with @Sdjz, he clearly was at the moment. So... Being. There.

Delioth

Or Sdjz was wasing, and simply set up a bot at that time to exact their will on these moments. Or they were will-being and actions taken in your concept of "future" came to enact changes in your present or past which led to a message being sent your way

KorvinStarmast

16:57

@NautArch Kolaches!

Simon H.

Kolaches are great.

How do you guys preserve your adventure grids?

goodguy5

what do you mean?

NautArch

@SimonH. with kolaches?

Simon H.

I bought the official D&D adventure grid and it has open sides, like cardboard.

BESW

Hey, I know we're being silly (and I was have being a fan of time travel tenses), but let's avoid that "stop oppressing me by assuming my [x]" meme because it makes folks uncomfortable to genuinely and humbly ask for their preferred pronoun. Thank you, @Helwar, for remembering the existence of non-men in the chat.

goodguy5

17:01

@SimonH. oh

link?

Simon H.

they look like this.

BESW

....That's terrifyingly bad design.

goodguy5

perfect, thanks

Simon H.

@BESW I didn't know better at the time. The sides are curling up and it's bugging me x.x

goodguy5

these ideas should all be checked for validity, but off the top of my head:
clear tape, some sort of resin or apoxy, ignore it, cover it with some sort of plexiglass sheet when you use it

BESW

17:04

Clear tape will hold it for a good while, but then the tape will start to peel and fixing it will damage the boards further.

SPavel

A light stroke of rubber cement along the side would do it, no?

BESW

Depending on exactly what it's made of, the right glue/resin/apoxy would probably last longer.

But the wrong one will either not stick, or melt it.

Simon H.

@SPavel What's rubber cement?

SPavel

Though if I were pro, I would give it tin/copper sides

BESW

Rubber cement

Rubber cement is an adhesive made from elastic polymers (typically latex) mixed in a solvent such as acetone, hexane, heptane or toluene to keep them fluid enough to be used. Water-based formulae, often stabilised by ammonia, are also available. This makes it part of the class of drying adhesives: as the solvents quickly evaporate, the "rubber" portion remains behind, forming a strong, yet flexible bond. Often a small percentage of alcohol is added to the mix. == Composition == === General === Rubber cement is simply a mixture of solid rubber in a volatile solvent that will dissolve it. When the...

SPavel

17:06

@SimonH. encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/…

Simon H.

Oh, neat. That's a good idea, thanks man.

BESW

I'm fond of soft craft glues, like Tacky Glue.

SPavel

My go-to plan is the most caustic over-the-counter chemical

BESW

And for the future, there are third-party grid boards which are much higher quality.

goodguy5

there's a different name for rubber cement in some places... some brand.

I can't think of it

KorvinStarmast

17:09

@SimonH. Rubber cement is what you sniff when you can't afford beer. (that's a bad joke from my high school days ...)

goodguy5

and terrible advice

NautArch

it may also be where people first discovered a special preference for playing with latex

KorvinStarmast

@SimonH. I used to use Clear Shelf Paper to preserve our game board, which was a cardboard sewing pattern board with 1" squares. (I think I have an answer on that somewhere). Works like a champ, and you can use water soluble markers to draw on it if needed and wipe off.

@goodguy5 The amount of terrible advice form those days would fill a large book. Maybe I ought to write one ...

BESW

I laminated my 3.5 tear-out-of-the-back-of-the-book paper grid, but those look too thick to laminate.

goodguy5

@BESW with THAT attitude.

@KorvinStarmast Korvin's Big Book of What not to do

BESW

17:12

I'm more concerned about the map's altitude than its attitude.

KorvinStarmast

@goodguy5 We might need to make that a two volume set ..

Rubiksmoose

@KorvinStarmast I just commented, but I really like your answer.

on the swarm Q

KorvinStarmast

@Rubiksmoose Glad you like it, yours answers the mail as well.

Delioth

Why not just go for a trilogy? Then they get a cool name. For bonus points, on each one give a different name to the trilogy (Volume 1 of the Korvin's Bad Advice Trilogy, Volume B of the Bad Advice Trilogy feat. KorvinStarmast, Final Volume of Korvin's Trilogy: Terrible advice).

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast another updoot from me

KorvinStarmast

17:16

@SimonH. This is what I mean or a thing we used to cover in clear shelf paper.

@Delioth I think you are on to something. Stretch two into three, just as was done with the hobbit movies. 8^D

@SimonH. Shelf paper in question ... that might help you, since you can cut it to wrap around the edges, protecting them, and then tape them to the bottom.

BESW

NautArch

@BESW bahaahahah

I've got two more chapters to read before I can watch the 2nd movie with my son.

goodguy5

@Delioth We need more dualogies

BESW

@goodguy5 Clocktaur Wars!

Maus. The English translation of Persepolis.

NautArch

17:33

@goodguy5 @BESW Bird and Sword Chronicles, too.

although I'm having trouble getting into book 2. that...and I misplaced my kindle.

KorvinStarmast

@BESW Heh, good one. :)

Yuuki

@BESW I mean, I could see War and Peace adapted into three movies.

BESW

@NautArch That would complicate the matter.

@Yuuki Seems like it might be a bit rushed.

Yuuki

@BESW Yeah, maybe a five-parter.

BESW

...also, given its thematic material, I think a live TV event would be a more appropriate format.

Yuuki

17:39

I will admit that reading the books the first time through, I thought the Ringwraiths were kinda ghosts rather than Super-Gollums.

SPavel

War and Peace is 587,287 words, ASOIAF is 1.77 million so far

Yuuki

And so I thought they could die and come back to life and such.

SPavel

LotR trilogy is 455,125

So you could do a nice 6-movie arc from War and Peace

KorvinStarmast

@Yuuki For all practical purposes, they were a form of ghost. Specter in D&D original roughly fit their mode ...

SPavel

There are 4 books and a 2-part epilogue so it works

Yuuki

17:43

@KorvinStarmast Yeah, but the salient part is that they were still mortal (ish). For some reason, I never connected Gollum and Bilbo being "stretched" by the Ring with the Ringwraiths despite it literally being in the book.

I just always thought "ooo, they're ghosts of human kings that were cursed to serve Sauron after they died because of their rings".

SPavel

@Yuuki War and Peace was adapted to 1 movie twice, a 4-movie series once, and a TV series 5 times

Yuuki

And that's... sorta true except for the "after they died" part.

SPavel

So its adaptation length is flexible

Delioth

@Yuuki For most purposes, it's "close enough"

SPavel

The 4-movie series took 6 years to film

Yuuki

17:45

On a completely different tangent, I wonder what Halo lore looks like with only the first trilogy and Reach as canon.

(i.e. none of the 343 Industries stuff)

Delioth

Thinking of them as ghosties won't really ruin any interpretations, though it might bring up questions of why they e.g. didn't walk through walls or anything. Depending on your understanding of the abilities and limitations of ghosties

(to which the obvious answer is <<they ain't ghosties, they're still "alive">>)

KorvinStarmast

The human kings, not being hobbits, were beyond stretched. They were kept "alive and dead" by the power of the rings that they wore, and that Sauron wore. What is unique about hobbits is how resistant they are to the Ring, as compared to a Human.

NautArch

In 5e can a soul even leave the body before death?

Yuuki

@Delioth I was kinda hedging around the depiction of the Ringwraiths in The Hobbit movies. That the Witch-King was killed at some point in the past and buried in an unbreakable vault.

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Hmm, it would seem that question might be related to Astral travel?

SPavel

17:48

@KorvinStarmast It's because hobbits have chubby fingers, so the ring is difficult to put on

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast oooooh

Yuuki

And then we had action scenes with Elrond stabbing Mr. Ringwraith through the chest and he trashes about and disappears. And then comes back.

@KorvinStarmast It's because nobody west of Bree would have much interest in adventures.

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast although astral projection isn't necesarily the same thing as a soul (in fact, they seem different)

Delioth

Yeah, because the conjecture around the Ring is that it amplifies one's desires. Men and Elves are ambitious and desire power. Hobbits are lazy and desire nice gardens and full bellies and naps.

Wait a second... I might be a hobbitses

KorvinStarmast

@Delioth Then Bilbo and Gollum should have gained weight, not become stretched, I guess.

Yuuki

17:50

@KorvinStarmast Yes but living longer means you have more time to eat and sleep.

Plus, magically gaining weight means you'll eat less.

Which is :(

SPavel

The ring feeds on its bearer

Delioth

Gollum was a little special and became obsessed with the ring (and from there, amplifying the desire for the ring means they ain't got no time to eat)

SPavel

So if anything it's the opposite, you could chow down and not get fat

Yuuki

@SPavel New diet discovered: wear this fancy gold ring and never gain weight! Fitness trainers hate him!

Delioth

AFAIK it's kind of a duality - amplify the bearer's desires and ambitions, and turn them towards fanaticism for the ring. Hobbitses are less effected by the ring over short times because their ambitions and desires are super mundane and don't often lead to attempting to overthrow anything

Yuuki

17:53

Side effects may include, but are not limited to, obsessive behavior and occasionally looking like a crack demon.

Delioth

E.g. Isildur - the Ring made him want it, and made him want to conquer and rule over his domain

SPavel

@Yuuki Ringworm eggs were sold as diet products

Mike Q

What happens if your greatest desire is to not wear the ring?

SPavel

Or whichever worm is the one that lives in your stomach and eats your food

Yuuki

@MikeQ ... then you wouldn't put it on?

Delioth

17:54

@MikeQ [Insufficient Data for Meaningful Answer]

KorvinStarmast

Gollum's self imposed isolation was in part due to a severe faux pas in a tavern along the Gladden waterways near a hobbit settlement. After a few pints, he observed to the barmaid that he liked his women the way he liked his fish: raw and wriggling. She was aghast, and word soon spread that he was a class A creep.

Mike Q

Ok, fine. What happens if your greatest desire is to not wear the ring, and you wear the ring anyway?

Yuuki

And also, if your greatest desire to not wear the Ring, I'd say that you need to get out more.

Alternately, maybe see a psychiatrist about your commitment-phobia.

Delioth

We've only got like... 6 data points for bearers of the Ring

SPavel

@MikeQ That's not a real desire

Yuuki

17:56

You've been in a relationship with your current significant other for several years now and they're getting tired that you haven't popped the question yet.

Delioth

As far as I'm concerned, the Ring is semi-sentient and I've got a relevant xkcd for that in a moment

SPavel

At best you'll have what Frodo got which is where the ring slowly erodes your will until you break down

Delioth

And the whole setup is just a trap to capture escaping logicians. None of the doors actually lead out.

SPavel

And your desires are supplanted with its own

Yuuki

Well, the Ring is a fragment of Sauron's will/soul/whatever.

It's basically like a mini-Sauron.

Or Tom Riddle.

Don't trust anything if you can't see where it keeps its brain.

Now I'm imagining Gollum being played by Ginny Weasley.

Rubiksmoose

17:59

@Yuuki I like to think that Ginny Weasley, the actual fictional character, in some universe gets into acting and decides to play Gollum

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