TRPG General Chat

nitsua60

12:08 AM

just filed fy17 taxes 😀

Shalvenay

heheh, need to get on that soon. got a lore question for you if you don't mind @nitsua60

nitsua60

whazzup?

Shalvenay

Elven paladins before 4e -- what deity would be used, considering none of the Seldarine accommodate LG divine casters as followers?

nitsua60

hmm... recall that I don't believe in paladins.... What setting?

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 Faerun although Greyhawk stuff may be informative as well

nitsua60

12:23 AM

No answer for you. 1e and 2e paladins were only allowed to be humans. 2e's Complete Paladin's Handbook has a page on "demipaladins," paladin-like characters of other races, which is basically no help. The Complete Book of Elves doesn't have much on deities that you don't already know, and my Deities & Demigods is in the office. (And, as you know, my knowledge of 3.x is nil.)

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 drat :/ it's a bit of a mess, even

nitsua60

Okay, can we all agree that in the phrase "potted plant" the word "plant" is a noun and "potted" is a participial adjective? Thus if one is turned into a "potted plant" then one has been turned into a plant that lives in a pot, not into a pot containing a plant?

trogdor

@nitsua60 can't agree with potted plants, sorry

It's completely impossible to agree with them

nitsua60

Do you find them... disagreeable?

trogdor

XD

nitsua60

12:38 AM

As an obligate carnivore, I imagine you would =)

trogdor

Oh I eat plants too

Just to make sure they are still scared of me

BESW

In the InCryptid setting gorgons are often vegetarians, but they still feed mice to their snakes. This does not seem incongruous to them.

SevenSidedDie

12:57 AM

@Shalvenay I don't recall any particular one. The “patron of X class” thing was never a complete set, even if 3e kinda started making it look like that's how gods and classes related. It also depends on the setting — you might get a “patron god of paladins” in a “core rules” generic (read: human) pantheon, but often demihuman pantheons didn't cover the same gamut, and didn't match up across settings. (Also IIRC there were no pantheons in the core rules until D&D 3.x.)

Shalvenay

@SevenSidedDie OK. hrm then.

BESW

@SevenSidedDie I consider this the "Cosmic Wheel rut," the assumption that every thing needs to follow the same template as every similar thing, and have complements and foils. Thus, if one god endorses a class, all gods should endorse a class and all classes should have a god.

It makes for a great way to churn out splat material, though.

Maiko Chikyu

Am i the only that gets the temptation to downvote the answers other than mine.

Shalvenay

@MaikoChikyu yeah, that sounds like a personal problem :p I think I wind up upvoting other folks answers when I answer a question far more than I downvote them

SevenSidedDie

@BESW The “paint by numbers” splat motive definitely feels strong in this regard.

Maiko Chikyu

1:07 AM

My answer got accepted despite getting zero votes. Yay

Shalvenay

@MaikoChikyu it happens. I have a pile of those on DIY.SE but that's because the voting on there is very poor in the tags I work in the most over there

Maiko Chikyu

Also after a few sessions i realized that roll for shoes is a really amazing system with experience removed

You can use it for any setting and it is impossible to munch

nitsua60

@MaikoChikyu Some questions yes, some no. Sometimes I'm all "what are these people thinking!?" and other times it's "oh, I wish I'd thought of putting it together like that."

Miniman

2:19 AM

@Shalvenay There's no requirement for paladin deities to match alignment, I'm pretty sure.

Shalvenay

@Miniman hrm, because folks seem to want to enforce the one-step rule on them at least in some circles I run in. is that incorrect to do?

Miniman

Because there's a bunch of deity-specific paladin substitution levels and prestige classes for non-LG deities.

@Shalvenay Pretty sure that only applies to clerics.

Adeptus

10

Q: Should a paladin's alignment align with the alignment of their deity?

I gave one of my players a handout of the major Gods in Faerûn as I am running Storm King's Thunder pretty soon. My player wants to be a Chaotic good paladin and is not interested in any of the chaotic good Gods. He asked me if his alignment had to follow the alignment of his God and I said that ...

Shalvenay

@Adeptus I'm asking about pre-4e here

Miniman

I remember it doesn't matter for favoured souls, because they have the whole "you're a favored soul whether you like it or not".

Adeptus

2:24 AM

Oh. In 3.x, clerics are limited to alignment within one step, but it doesn't have the same blurb for paladins. Standard paladins are restricted to LG alignment

> Paladins need not devote themselves to a single deity - devotion to righteousness is enough. Those who align themselves with particular religions prefer Heironeous (god of valor) over all others, but some paladins follow Pelor (the sun god).

Shalvenay

@Adeptus right, I'm asking about the deity's alignment, not the paladin's

Adeptus

Heironeous is LG, Pelor is NG

KorvinStarmast

@nitsua60 Math, for the win. :)

nitsua60

59%, baby!

Shalvenay

hey there @KorvinStarmast

@Adeptus right. but those still comply with the one-step rule

KorvinStarmast

2:34 AM

@nitsua60 Yes, plant is noun, potted is adjective. As LTC Oliver North's attorney once remarked to him during Senate testimony, "I am not a potted plant." (He was trying to get Ollie to Shut Up!)

Adeptus

@Shalvenay there are substitution levels for various other deities: Berronar Truesilver, Horus-Re, Clangeddin Silverbeard, Selune, Kelemvor, Ilmater, Torm, Mystra, Milil, Tyr, Nobanion, Red Knight, Sune, Baravar Cloakshadow, Helm, Arvoreen, Yondalla... and maybe others

Shalvenay

@Adeptus yeah. Sune's the only one I know of that isn't LN, LG, or NG though

maybe Selune?

KorvinStarmast

@Shalvenay For a dragonborn Paladin, I'd recommend Bahamut. For any other paladin, I'd recommend "choose a god" and then pursue that god's aims and objectives in a LG (pre 5) or "within code" manner. The original Paladin ever had No God at all (it was previous to gods being fleshed out) but simply had to be Lawful Good.

Adeptus

@Shalvenay yeah both of those are CG

Shalvenay

@Adeptus right

this has been helpful, thanks

KorvinStarmast

2:38 AM

@Shalvenay As we got into 1e and gods become more common, then going LG to support any good god tended to be "good enough" ... but I realize that there's been a lot of water under the bridge since then.

(and we once again see a problem with mechanizing the two axis alignment deal ... it takes some adaptation/flex to make it fit)

Actually, the original had to be Lawful ... LG didn't come until later

nitsua60

@KorvinStarmast Right--things were so much simpler with just one axis =)

Maiko Chikyu

2:55 AM

Guys at gamingexchange love to downvote for some reason

%90 of the stuff either has 0 votes or negative votes

Miniman

@Shalvenay Correllon is very Paladin-ish. He even has Champions.

BESW

@KorvinStarmast 4e divorced alignment from mechanics, too; paladins can be whatever pleases their god.

...actually, even more than that. In 4e it's completely in RP-space, and there's no danger, mechanically, of your god's displeasure depriving you of divinely powered features.

Shalvenay

3:20 AM

@Miniman indeed, yeah. its just that some people get hung up on the alignment issues :P

trogdor

3:52 AM

@nitsua60 if you don't believe in paladins, does that mean I have to change classes?

:P

nitsua60

@trogdor No, it just means I don't believe in you =\

trogdor

Believe in the me that believes in the you man

Sorry, first time I got to use that one XD