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6:00 AM
I have not tried 5th edition either, but I am going to be trying it next week
 
@Magician kind of, not in the same way there was on 4th!
 
I don't hold out high hopes that I will like it as much as 4th edition or 13th Age, but I still want to give it that shot
@RafaelSantos what way does it have encounter and daily powers?
because having read the Players Handbook it doesn't exactly seem like a similar thing
so far it looks a lot more like 3.5
 
they change the "wording", but it is still the same nature, instead of encounter they called "per short rest"
 
fair enough
I have not read it extensively
 
they have short rest, long rest, and those are kind of rest that "recharge" some class features
 
6:03 AM
yeah 4e had that for sure
I don't personally understand all the differences yet though so
I will leave the distinction to you
 
oh, lets be honest, there isn't any hahahaha
short rest or encounter are the same thing
 
do you like it better in 5th edition than in 4th?
 
5th, and i will explain why!
 
mk
I just assumed there was a difference you liked better
but I don't know what it is
 
@trogdor Essentially, "encounter powers" recharge on a short rest, while "daily powers" recharge on a long rest. The difference is that you aren't assumed to be able to rest, so the DM can prevent your abilities from ever recharging.
 
6:07 AM
um,... but you could also not get those rests in 4e at any time either
 
That's how 4e worked as well, though.
 
that isn't a difference
 
And, on the flip side, I remember granting "short rests" in the middle of climactic 4e battles, while the boss would change to a new phase, or, in once instance, while the party was falling through the collapsing floor.
 
4e also had short rests and long rests
and yes, both could be interrupted or just not taken at a good time
 
Fair enough. Not having played 4e, I'd always gotten the impression that rests were assumed.
 
6:09 AM
or like @Magician 's example given even though you are not in a restful state
@Miniman they are not, it depends heavily on the group and the DM giving a chance to rest
 
the new AC and Base Attack system.
the fact they got ridden of all that excess of generic magic items (ex: short sword +1 to +5).
spells slots instead of powers.
more skills and rules for crafting and stuff!
better multiclassing
 
Oh, interesting. How does crafting work in 5e?
 
be back in a bit, gotta go home
 
@Magician You can make anything you want, as long as it's cheap and/or useless.
 
It was either worthless or gamebreaking in 3.5, depending on how lenient the GM was with interpreting the crafting rules.
@Miniman Oh.
 
6:11 AM
and my favorite, belt of giant strenght no longer gives you +something strength, it gives you a set number, just like AD&D
hahahaha
 
(I still remember arguing with someone who was convinced a ring of permanent True Strike granting +20 to all attacks forever was worth 2k gold)
 
i always hated generic magic items, everyone need a cloak of resistance plus something, a weapon plus something, a ring of protection and on and on....
that's why when i'm DMing i use a homebrew version of the automatic bonus progression
@Magician use activated or continuous were spell level x caster level x 2000gp hahahaha
but there were extra rules on that
he can make a ring that can cast infinite true strike for 2000, but no always on!
a quicken true strike would be spell level 5 x caster level 9 x 2000 = 90.000
 
I think the "use activated" clause was the one that was tripping it up, coupled with True Strike being a weird spell to begin with.
And 90k for a +20 to attack item is still too low, considering braces of accuraccy cost... 4k/16k/64k/128k/256k for +5?
I think that was the progression.
I know I rhetorically asked this before, but why do I still remember this, over a decade since I've last touched the 3.5 books?
 
the think i liked most on the 3.5 was my two handed wand user look a like pistolero, ranger wizard eldritch knight, it wasn't the most powerful character but i love that bastard
i think we remember it its because we played a hell lot of it
 
6:55 AM
Jun 20 '14 at 21:47, by BESW
It'd been a year since I ran 3.5 when I joined this site, and a sizeable chunk of my rep is still from that system because it's ingrained on my brain.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:01 AM
@RafaelSantos Those tend to be rather boring, unless the players are in it for number optimization and they have viable alternatives, yep.
There's basically two ways to use generic +X items: one is to deprecate old ones so the PCs just receive buffs in the form of new, better items as time goes on, the other is to have several viable items available at all times so the players can use them for tactical flexibility.
The latter solution would be a lot more fun without the overhead in terms of stuff for the player to remember, though.
 
@kviiri I actually really liked 4e's take on bonus items: while +X items existed, they only got replaced every five to ten levels and you never had to get just a flat +X. Instead you'd get +X and [special bonus], which also improved alongside the flat bonus. And if anybody in the party had ritual casting you could just take some time one night and sacrifice the gold needed to upgrade it to the next level.
 
@BESW Yea, upgrading rarely is a good thing
 
...and that was just for three slots on the body. All the other slots were purely special bonus stuff, usually adding riders to your existing abilities or granting new powers, and if you got one that worked really well at level 5 there was no pressure to swap it out all the way through 'til endgame at level 30.
(And even if there WAS a better thing later, the better thing was usually only every ten levels or so.)
 
Yeah
 
The game came with very clear expectations about how the items would be distributed at what levels, quite easy to follow.
 
9:10 AM
And having other bonuses tied in makes way for the tactical flexibility thing: swapping items for different power sets.
 
Aye.
We had a ranger who specialized in debuffs by sacrificing all damage to activate feats and powers which immobilized characters.
His default weapon for the job had extra range so he could do it from further away.
But if you could teleport, he'd swap out for his Feyslaughter weapon that said "when you hit a creature, that creature can't teleport until the end of your next turn."
 
Ah, yes, that weapon. A fighter with an aura hitting everyone who starts their turn next to them for some miniscule damage is a nightmare...
 
While from the tactical POV I like the whole "swap out stuff for different bonuses", the bookkeeping aspect is a bit of a hurdle. And it doesn't really match my idea of "heroic fantasy" either; hoarding magic items for bonuses doesn't have a lot of precedents in literature, does it?
 
@Magician He used Bolas, with Bola Training (immobilize target instead of dealing damage), Vicious Advantage (combat advantage against immobilized or slowed targets), World Serpent's Grasp (when you hit an immobilized or slowed target, knock it prone), Grounding Shot (+2 to hit prone targets)... and the Ranger at-will attacks Twin Shot (attack one target twice) and Rapid Shot (make one attack into one square and one attack each into every square adjacent to it, but at -2 for all attacks).
Twin Shot for the immobilized + prone one-two punch in a single action; Rapid Shot for "I know you're hiding there somewhere!" or for enemies that grouped up kindly.
 
Neat
 
9:20 AM
My invisible flying teleporting demon boss wept and sobbed as the party kicked her to death.
 
Thankfully, I don't remember the details of how our fighter and later paladin tormented my poor monsters.
 
I've heard stories of an insanely broken 4e party build involving stacking Radiant vulnerabilities on targets and having everyone deal Radiant damage.
 
Yeah, there were a number of damage-specific cheese parties.
 
I wish Cheese was a damage type
 
My group instead went with the "our basic attacks make you weep" party, because we had a warden/shaman hybrid who specialized in granting extra basic attacks to everybody.
Everyone did their own thing, with some decent synergy, but the warlord/shaman just made everyone extra beastly. "Someone moved past me! Ranger, shoot him with my opportunity attack!"
 
9:24 AM
@BESW oh god the kobold monster
 
(Hybrids in 4e were almost always awful, unless you had a very very specific vision of something that couldn't be done any other way, and did your homework. That player's vision was "I never want to roll to attack.")
(Hybrids in 4e were almost always awful, unless you had a very very specific vision of something that couldn't be done any other way, and did your homework. That player's vision was "I never want to roll to attack." No single class could allow that, but shaman and warlord together just barely managed.)
Then we got Tattoos of Shared Vengeance: any time one of us got crit by a non-minion attacker, everyone else got to make a basic attack against the fool.
 
you said sorta the same thing twice there
 
Derp, Internet burped.
 
fair enough
 
9:45 AM
@trogdor Says the inventor of the push-fighter.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:24 AM
@BESW that means we know it's serious
> Baby. (Extra) Whilst you're carrying this, any actions you take in a physical conflict to defend yourself (and the baby) cannot get a result below a Tie. However, you're weak to having to go out of your way to take care of the baby.
(That's an extra as in this, but it's pretty much a one-stunt extra.)
 
> Cheese knife. You get +2 when attacking soft, smelly opponents or making snacks.
 
11:45 AM
> Say cheese! You get +2 when photographing anything with a face.
(probably quite powerful if the game is about exposé journalism)
 
12:35 PM
hey there @Llopis, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
 
@BESW monsters can be scared of each other
 
12:59 PM
hey there @nitsua60
 
!
XD
 
1:29 PM
Monday's Prompt. Who is this magical woman? What is her story? (also if anyone knows the original artist @ them or tell us who they are. THANKS!) #blackhistorymonth
 
hey there @WheatWizard
 
hello!
 
how're things going?
 
pretty good. I'm going to GM dungeon world in a few hours. Pretty nervous.
How goes evrything for you
 
@WheatWizard ah :) I do want to run it myself sometime, but I'll probably need some coaching from someone experienced in the system when I do though
alright here
 
1:41 PM
@BESW Something in her pose suggests that she's about about to cast a spell straight out of a book (as opposed to learning it beforehand). Maybe she's new to the whole magic thing, and about to learn a grim lesson of what happens when you mispronounce "Cthulhu" while weaving your spells... and then goes on a bold adventure to fix the damage, make new friends and grow as a person and as a witch.
 
@kviiri how else are you supposed to cast a given spell for the first time? :)
 
@Shalvenay Well at least read it through once in your mind before doing it for reals!
 
@Shalvenay I think Kviiri's thinking of spellcasting as "read the recipe and make sure you understand it before you start mixing things together."
 
Yea
 
@BESW yeah, not everyone learns that way though :)
 
1:44 PM
Well, in my version she's about to learn.
;)
 
 
1 hour later…
3:01 PM
hey there @Rubiksmoose
 
 
1 hour later…
4:07 PM
@WheatWizard Don't forget to tell us how it went!
I'm interested in hearing all sorts of PbtA experiences.
 
4:20 PM
@kviiri They really should put the warnings before the spells.
 
4:41 PM
 
hey there @nitsua60
 
@Shalvenay hiya
 
@nitsua60 how're things going?
 
@Shalvenay good--you?
 
@nitsua60 doing good over here
 
4:47 PM
(let's draw out the niceties and drive that gif off the page, eh?)
 
:P
 
@nitsua60 weeeeeeeee
 
how's $local_sportball_team doing?
 
hey there @Rubiksmoose
 
@Shalvenay hey!
 
4:48 PM
(ooh, now there are three sets of salutations to go through--should be done in a... gif!)
 
how're things going?
 
@Shalvenay going pretty well thanks. (Just posted my first self-answered question which is weird). How about you?
 
@Rubiksmoose alright out here, stoked for starting ToA :)
 
@Shalvenay ooo I'll bet!
@Shalvenay IRL or over the interwebs?
 
will be interesting to see how well our party fares -- what with a tribal shaman (outlander background cleric), a ranger, and an Ancients paladin (who also has Survival as a skill prof AIUI)...who knows, maybe we can go without hiring a guide at all? XD
@Rubiksmoose interwebs, its the stackizen game that nits is running
 
4:54 PM
@Shalvenay gotcha gotcha
I remember that now
 
For your Monday morning, here is the wild man with red shoes [Beinecke, MS. 287, 15th c.]
 
yo
 
@eimyr hey there, how're things going?
 
not bad at all, you?
 
doing alright here, stoked for ToA
 
5:07 PM
what's ToA?
 
@eimyr Tomb of Annihilation. DnD5e module
 
Temple of Astonishment. It's astonishing.
 
Tired of Acronyms
2
 
Is this question a duplicate of the linked one? rpg.stackexchange.com/q/115820/28591
 
It closed because I called it a dupe, and since I have a particular privilege for 5e questions it closed as dupe with one vote. I wasn't that keen on closing it, just getting the "is it a dupe?" process started. Please take a look, folks, and if you don't think it's a dupe please vote to reopen.
3
Q: Can sacred flame target someone that is behind total cover?

RubiksmooseOne of the rules for targeting spells in the Player's Handbook says that spells must have a clear path to the target. A Clear Path to the Target To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover. If you place an area of effect at a point that y...

 
5:20 PM
hey there @KorvinStarmast
 
Hey shal, how are things?
 
alright here, as for you? got the day off?
 
Yeah, and playing homebody.
 
@KorvinStarmast Yup, you have that D&D 5e dupe hammer now.
Now you know what it's like when a diamond closes questions ... for any reason at all, all the time @_@
 
@doppelgreener Yeah, I so rarely am the first that i forget that hammer is in my bag.
 
5:24 PM
It'll take some getting used to
Know that you also have a reopen hammer for D&D 5e dupes as well
 
OK, let me play with that.
Woo Hoo, I'd forgotten I had that.
 
does a silly dance
 
That reopen hammer works exclusively when the question is within your tag and has been closed as a duplicate of something.
 
@KorvinStarmast so-- were you able to finish the reading materials from a while ago, btw? :)
 
5:27 PM
No, that ship wreck report has me about half way, and then I had to do stuff. I can finish to day.
speaking of which, the dogs need to be walked, so best wishes to all
 
Ttfn!
 
@doppelgreener I've been thinking: is it possible to abuse the close/reopen hammer power by adding the hammerable tag oneself?
 
hey there @MikeQ
 
Hey @Shal, how's it going? I hope you're not mad about me jumping ship from the chat campaign.
 
@MikeQ no, not at all :) I think it'll work out on that one in the end pretty nicely. I'm actually stoked for what I'm starting on as a player -- just had session 0 for the chatizen ToA game this last Saturday
 
5:39 PM
That's good to hear. I don't want to seem like a hypocrite for running my own campaign and not having enough time for someone else's.
 
@MikeQ are you familiar at all with ToA btw?
 
It stands for Tomb of Annihilation, and is unrelated to Bionicle
It's either a tomb where things get annihilated, or a tomb for burying things that have already been annihilated. Or a tomb for a guy named "Annihilation", which seems like an odd name.
 
@MikeQ :p I meant as in the campaign itself. because I think this will be an interesting runthrough with the party we have
 
I'd guess and say a really big dungeon crawl? With undead and lots of traps? I don't actually know much about it, other than some brief mentions here in chat.
 
@MikeQ lots of jungle, if that's not too big a spoiler :)
 
5:57 PM
Sounds like you're really excited about it. What's your character concept?
 
@kviiri You can't apply your tag hammer to questions where you added that tag yourself. It must be present in the original revision, or be added by someone other than yourself. This means you have to have an accomplice to perform that abuse.
 
@doppelgreener Hi, you alright?
 
but yeah -- our party is my big jungle cat (Chultan-born-and-raised Tabaxi tribal shaman, built as a Nature cleric with an Outlander background, worshipping Gwaeron Windstrom of all things), our wandering lizard (Copper Dragonborn Ancients Paladin with a Folk Hero background, who came to Chult on a pilgrimage and taught some Chultan farmers how to stick it to the bandits along his way through Chult), and our one newcomer (human Gloomstaker Ranger spy sent by nobles to check out the situation)
 
@eimyr Hi, I'm ok!
 
@doppelgreener #glad
wanna try BL2 out tonight?
 
6:02 PM
Sep 22 '16 at 21:23, by nitsua60
Whoa. First dupehammer.
Think I'm gonna feel it tomorrow. I probably should've stretched.
 
@nitsua60 -- I have a couple of ToA questions re: design intent. mind if I ping you on Discord with them, or would it be better if I dropped them in say the ToA spoiler room?
 
@Shalvenay I'd say discord or R20.
 
@Shalvenay A cleric, paladin, and ranger walk into a party. How divine!
 
(but I'm running to class in a few minutes, then sports, then dinner with my wife... probably be ten hours or so before I'll get to it in either case)
 
@MikeQ xD true
 
6:41 PM
"Ululation" is my new word for the day
 
@GreySage conga rat ululations on learning that word!
 
6:58 PM
@eimyr not tonight but I'll get it installed. I'm not even home just yet 😢
Got some deadlines this week. Hooray for video game music and how amazing it is for concentration.
 
Hmm... any chance I could get ported to 5e?
 
7:13 PM
@Yuuki you personally?
 
@doppelgreener How about me impersonally?
 
I'm not sure individual human beings are eligible for edition conversion.
 
@Yuuki Sure, what system are you currently in?
 
@MikeQ I think I'm in O&M (Offices & Meetings) 1e.
 
hey there @MikeQ
 
7:29 PM
Yep, I'm still technically here, what's up?
 
 
2 hours later…
9:17 PM
hey there @noneuklid
welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
 
Thanks.
Also, I see @doppelgreener is in here. Tyvm for the bounty!
 
[wave]
 
I keep answering @Rubiksmoose's questions even though I can't get any more points today. I just really like them.
 
9:33 PM
how're things going?
 
@Shalvenay Finally finished the el faro report. jaw drop that's a lot to digest.
And now the phone rings ... later.
 
@noneuklid daww thanks!
 
Hey Blades-kids. I've got a session of Blades on the books for Wed evening (7pm cst US) to raise money for charity with @LawfulGG, come do some scoundrel stuff. https://www.facebook.com/events/1908521456145191/
 
9:52 PM
@noneuklid thank you for the answer :)
 
i aspire to clear the unanswered queue. but, like, slowly, because some of those are going to take some serious time.
 
@noneuklid some of those are also going to take some gaming time...
some of them less, some a lot
 
@doppelgreener wait, you can actually play D&D?
 
Speak for yourself.
 
10:07 PM
the magic 8-ball speaks for nothing more than universal truth
sometimes incorrectly
 
@doppelgreener so it's the Jeremy Crawford of children's toys? :P
 
I have a fairly experiment-friendly playgroup, but yeah. Even finding the materials in some cases is a significant challenge.
 
@doppelgreener :)
 
The "Dirty Computer" trailer makes me want to go back and try finding an answer to this question again.
Maybe we could try a session of Misspent Youth some time.
 
10:11 PM
huh. i'd totally play a Monaeverse game. Vampires vs Robots; what's not to love?
 
for real though, designating people as Universal Bearers Of Truth on behalf of a games company has been historically fraught with peril
because, as may come as a surprise to many of you reading, people are wrong sometimes
and they have misunderstood something, or we are misunderstanding them
 
@doppelgreener gasp
 
@Rubiksmoose here's a chair, you might need to sit down.
 
The spotted paropsine beetle. (Photo: Mac Christiansen)
 
@doppelgreener thank goodness I already had a chair. Wouldn't want to have to file an OSHA report.
 
10:22 PM
@BESW that's lovely.
 
Ben
11:03 PM
MASSIVE storm today
That was before it hit... now I can't see across the street
It's causing trips in the power grid
@BESW This is the first one that's been posted that I'm not sure I would want to use it as a monster in RP.
 
The Vietnamese mossy frog. (Photos: Peter Schoen)
 
Ben
I present to you: the most confusing question of the day: gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/326999/…
 
wut?
is all I can think of
and how'd it end up on gaming.SE?
 
Ben
Yeah exactly.
Why google bing, only to yahoo google from a different explorer, and what does this have to do with puppies in minecraft???
 
hey again @WheatWizard, how'd that DW session go?
 
11:16 PM
Hello!
not very well
 
aww :/ what happened?
 
Well, a bunch of things didn't work too well.
I didn't question the players enough so I didn't really have much of an idea as to what they wanted to do.
I gave the enemies too much health and too little damage.
One player had a custom class that didn't really work.
It was still fun but definitely on the worse side of things.
 
Ben
Every game is a learning curve :)
 
Yeah. It is the 3rd game of DW I've GM'd though. And definitely the worst
 
Ben
We've been playing with the same group for... wow probably 3 years now? And even now, we're still dealing with issues. The latest one we realised is that we now overthink things, since we used to always assume the best case scenario.
 
11:21 PM
It took me years to learn good techniques for getting the whole group on the same page, expectation-wise, and I still fail at it semi-regularly.
 
Yeah I hope to learn from this going forward. I just hope that the group will let me GM again.
 
Here's what works best for me: at the end of the session, take a few minutes to talk about it.
Ask what do you want to see more of? What would you like to change next time? What would you like to add?
 
Ben
Now we spend time preparing for the camel department
 
Contribute to the conversation yourself; the GM and the players are all friends playing a game together, there can't be any power imbalance in the social portion.
I'll say what I think I did wrong, what I'm thinking of changing for next time, what I really liked.
 
Yeah we did do a post mortem. However I think that the players that were suspicious of dungeon worlds play style. Feel vindicated by my failure. A lot of their complaints were about the DW system rather than the issues I introduced.
 
11:25 PM
sometimes the best thing is to pause or stop a session if it's too rocky, too. i've had times where people were too worn out or stressed out to talk productively.
 
That's part of the conversation too.
 
@WheatWizard how so? what parts of DW did they have heartburn with?
and are they coming from a traditional (D&D/...) background, some sort of alternative RPing background (perhaps freeform-ish stuff?), or brand new to RP?
 
Ben
One thing I'd suggest, is a DMPC. Watch your contribution. You can use a DMPC to better integrate yourself into the group, and it can help get you in the mindset of the player. If you are driving the story, it can mean 1 of 2 things: 1. you're railroading, or 2. the players are lost and need direction. But it can help you understand the other side of the table a bit better.
 
@Shalvenay They didn't like that my GM moves were not always related to the process of attempting the roll. For instance when a player tried to spout lore about the best path through a sewer system, they failed, so I had a wave of sewage take them by surprised while they were thinking about the path. They felt that because spouting lore can't cause a wave of sewage I shouldn't have done that.
 
@WheatWizard so cause/consequence on failed rolls...
 
11:29 PM
@Ben Yeah. I think this was part of my problem here.
 
I'm not sure what, if anything, DW says on it
 
Well the thing is that as a GM I am obligated to make a move on failure.
 
@WheatWizard right, that part I get
 
Ben
@WheatWizard Yay, helping! Haha. In all honesty that is a risky solution, and I can see @BESW having a distasteful reaction to that, haha.
@miniman I keep thinking of topics to add to our non-existent blog
 
my (limited) understanding of the PbtA system is that the GM moves are usually supposed to be explanatory, not causal
but maybe that's different in DW
 
11:32 PM
@noneuklid mind unpacking that a bit?
 
Ben
PbtA?
Play by the...?
 
Powered by the Apocalypse, the die system Dungeon World uses
 
Ben
Nevermind then haha
 
Oh they also didn't like xp on failures.
 
It was explained to me as a narrative tool the GM could use to explain why the character failed on their check, rather than necessarily a consequence of their failure.
 
Ben
11:33 PM
@WheatWizard oh? Stingy lol. I'd jump at the chance for any opportunity to gain XP
 
Rewarding failure is one of the big philosophical shifts PbtA, and other games in its category like Fate, makes from D&D-likes. It reinforces the idea that as players we should embrace failure because it makes for more interesting stories, even if as characters we're always going for the win.
 
@noneuklid ah, that makes sense, that was what I was kinda thinking, but wasn't sure
@WheatWizard I don't mind XP on failures too hard, myself, but it can be a bit annoying in that it becomes harder to get a tempo of progression if you will
 
But it sounds like your group is prioritizing diegetic immersion and actor stance, over narrative structure and author/direct stances.
 
@Shalvenay I'm not sure what you mean. Could you elaborate
 
which leads to the party basically falling out of sync level wise. I'm not sure how much of a concern this actually is in DW
 
11:37 PM
Which is, yanno, not wrong but it's a very strict and fragile form of game play which PbtA really doesn't support at all.
 
@WheatWizard one thing I've noticed in DW games is that party members subtly drift apart in the timing of when they level. this isn't unique to DW (AD&D/2e actually had this happen more drastically with its per-class XP curves), and I'm not sure how much of a concern it is in DW or any other PbtA system, but it does strike me as awkward from a "make it so the party doesn't go splat" perspective
 
One of our other players GMs a game without xp on failures and we have drastic level differences regardless. Alignments are the worst offenders because some are so easy to attain that they are acheived every session and some alignments are nigh impossible.
 
@WheatWizard ah. yeah, the end-of-session XP in DW (and I presume in PbtA in general) is pretty sporadic as well
 
Without xp on failures end of session becomes the only xp you get.
 
especially for someone like me who doesn't really interpret character development in the same way that most folks do
hey again @Rubiksmoose
 
11:52 PM
@doppelgreener Wow, looks like a bad cut-and-paste. Maybe a Monty Python animation.
 
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