TRPG General Chat

Anne Aunyme

12:00 PM

what is the point in spending them in these conditions?

trogdor

@Ben urg

yeah no huntsman pets for me please XD

Zachiel

@AnneAunyme in these conditions, none

trogdor

those are more or less the big species we have here

or at least a close relation

ACuriousMind

@AnneAunyme No point. So you should change your approach: Let's say you're three players: The first and second go and Create An Advantage, yielding an aspect with a free invoke on success. Then the third actually attacks and perhaps uses a suitable aspect plus the advantages, yielding a net +6 to the roll. The narrative challenge here is of course that it must make sense to use both advantages and the aspect, but if you can pull it off, it both gives an awesome story and breaks the stalemate.

Anne Aunyme

I agree there was a solution, but the spending of the point was purely useless

and the game was presented as "if something is too hard, spend more points".

ACuriousMind

12:10 PM

ugh

Well, it's not wrong as such, but yeah, it definitely sounds as if you didn't have the best introduction to Fate

eimyr

@ACuriousMind It is wrong. Fate has a very specific spirit behind the tabletop activity and if you fail to grok that spirit you're just having D&D with less complex mechanics

Anne Aunyme

is that in the spirit of the game for the GM to spend the fate point he just received to counter the PC's action?

seems wrong as such to me

ACuriousMind

I now dimly recall some rule about not spending a point just received in the same scene again, but that might've been a house rule

eimyr

@AnneAunyme Absolutely not. Also, spending FP on the same Aspect twice is straight banned.

Anne Aunyme

do you mean "twice on the same roll"?

eimyr

12:15 PM

no, say, I have an Aspect "Super Hard". I can't dump two Fate Points on it to activate it twice in a single conflict.

If I have a Super Hard Aspect, I only get to make it relevant once in a conflict.

Also, if the play goes: PC's use Create an Advantage, GM counters by spending a FP to create an opposite aspect, rinse repeat, it's the GM who runs out of FP first

it's a dull game, but not necessarily an irrecoverable one

if you create an Aspect with a Fate Point, I don't think you get a free invoke

Anne Aunyme

Well, the GM told us the limit was "not the same aspect twice on the same roll", it changed a lot of things

eimyr

hmmmm

might be the case...

@doppelgreener @trogdor @BESW can you help and remind us, please?

doppelgreener

mm?

eimyr

Aspects to be used once per roll or once per scene?

doppelgreener

aspects are always true (and so you can always "use" the fact you have a sword to do sword-having type things). you can can invoke an aspect with a fate point only once per aspect per roll -- you can invoke three different aspects with a fate point for your roll, but you can't invoke the one aspect three times, and you can invoke any of those aspects again on any future roll. you can use any number of free invocations on the same aspect at once.

> It doesn’t matter when you invoke the aspect, but usually it’s best to wait until after you’ve rolled the dice to see if you’re going to need the benefit. You can invoke multiple aspects on a single roll, but you cannot invoke the same aspect multiple times on a single roll. So if your reroll doesn’t help you enough, you’ll have to pick another aspect (and spend another fate point) for a second reroll or that +2.
-- invoking aspects (https://fate-srd.com/fate-core/invoking-compelling-aspects#invoking-aspects)

eimyr

12:26 PM

so it's per-roll, not per scene

doppelgreener

> Free invocations work like normal ones except in two ways: no fate points are exchanged, and you can stack them with a normal invocation for a better bonus. So you can use a free invocation and pay a fate point on the same aspect to get a +4 bonus instead of a +2, two rerolls instead of one, or you can add +4 to another character’s roll or increase passive opposition by +4. Or you could split the benefits, getting a reroll and a +2 bonus. You can also stack multiple free invocations together.

Right. The limitation is generally the number of fate points you have.

Also, often overlooked:

> If the aspect you invoke is on someone else’s character sheet, including situation aspects attached to them, and the invoke is to their disadvantage, you give them the fate point you spent. (Invoking a third party’s aspect is treated just like invoking an unattached situation aspect.) They don’t actually get to use it until after the end of the scene, though.

that prevents zero-sum exchanges, wherein you just keep invoking back and forth with the same fate point

eimyr

@AnneAunyme I think @doppelgreener might correct me, but ALSO, the Fate Points that the players use to boost their own aspects etc. do not go to the GM, but to a common pool.

doppelgreener

@eimyr Right. The GM has a finite NPC pool used exclusively for the NPCs to perform invokes, and then there's just a common pool nobody owns but which fate points can magically be pulled if the GM compels someone.

eimyr

there you go

doppelgreener

The GM will get the fate points if you invoke a GM's character's aspects against them, but other fate points just vanish.

eimyr

12:30 PM

@AnneAunyme not only was your GM bad, but also wrong.

Anne Aunyme

@eimyr I guessed about that :)

Magician

@JoelHarmon Thanks, fixed it.

doppelgreener

@ACuriousMind I agree with that. Technically that was OK, but I'd find non-zero-sum ways to spend fate points. I would counter-invoke things to draw more out of the players and make things harder for them, but I'd be judicious about how I do that -- especially since the NPCs have far less fate points available than all the players combined.

@ACuriousMind That one is correct for invokes -- you only get fate points used for invoking your own character-sheet aspects against you at the end of the scene. You get fate points from compels immediately though.

(for all other forms of invokes, the fate point just vanishes into the common pool)

For anyone who plays Fate regularly I'd super strongly suggest the campaign coins fate tokens -- they are so nice. :D

[takes off the RULES OMNISCIENCE HELMET and stows it]

eimyr

12:48 PM

@doppelgreener I use large, irregular, clear, glass tokens, about the size of a walnut. They don't have tacky writing or +- signs and are suitable to symbolise mystical energy, crystal power etc. for a bit more immersion.

@doppelgreener Remind me to take a pic and post it here for reference.

doppelgreener

@eimyr ok. Eimyr: remember to take a pic and post it here for reference.

eimyr

not now!

like, later today!

doppelgreener

[throws hands up in air dramatically] jeez, you gotta tell me these things!

:D

Zachiel

@eimyr Is it later, now? I think it is. Remember!

doppelgreener

right now is later today than when he said that 🤔

NautArch

12:52 PM

I had a thought on the deadman's switch question

But I don't think it's what the OP is asking for.

Specifically: A Clone.

but then he's not really dead

Zachiel

@doppelgreener Ok, ok, right then it was. But some second before, when I said it? XD

eimyr

@doppelgreener You're in the same "now" as I am in now...now.

doppelgreener

@eimyr i was

Zachiel

> When will then be now?

doppelgreener

@eimyr shall I remind you after 5-6pm?

eimyr

1:00 PM

19:30 + please

doppelgreener

@eimyr ok!

ACuriousMind

@eimyr Well, technically you might not be if you are currently moving relative to doppelgreener ;) (different observers do not agree on a notion of simultaneity according to special relativity, so you'd be in different "now"s)

eimyr

that way I can also portray the envy my beautiful tokens cause all around.

urrrgh, can we just go the easy way and start measuring time in D&D six-second instants?

There! I declare Planck Time to be six seconds.

Hi @MarcDingena, how's your low-light illusionist going?

Marc Dingena

Hey guys. I wrote my first mobile app (currently only Android, but iOS support may be added in future). It's pretty hardcoded for my specific personal requirements (calculate attack and damage dice). I know there are probably a ton of other apps and websites out there that do the same, but it was an exercise in programming, so a win-win for me.

2

You can find it here, if you are interested: github.com/mdingena/Pathfinder-Attack-Calculator

doppelgreener

> meteor run

i too would run

Marc Dingena

1:06 PM

@eimyr Hi eimyr! Actually, I dropped that character. I wasn't getting the desired gameplay from it. It didn't help that my GM kept confusing my character's gender and forgetting my insane charisma and bluff skills. But also, it was a sorceress, and completely out of my comfort zone.

doppelgreener

Play more women! :D

(more than half my own characters in RPGs are female)

Marc Dingena

All of those things were intentional: play a lying character, while ooc I'm actually bad at lies and deceit; play a squishy caster; using illusions.

So now I'm back in my forte: archery. But I play a paladin now, instead of a ranger.

@doppelgreener meteor is awesome

eimyr

Does your bow double as a shield?

Marc Dingena

@eimyr How could I do that?

eimyr

I don't know.

Marc Dingena

1:09 PM

Oh, I thought you had an example of that :D

eimyr

A shield with bow arms across it and a hole in the boss?

Marc Dingena

Actually, I tried to use a buckler in my build.

eimyr

I'd play a character who uses two shields because of his/her nonviolent conviction

Marc Dingena

3

Q: Throwing a shield after a full attack action

I'm trying to figure out if I can still throw my buckler in a full attack action and, if I can, with which attack bonus I do so. Here's how I've broken it down: Full-round action A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round. [...] You can also perform free actions and swift...

pathfinder

eimyr

and then SLAUGHTERS people with these shields, because it doesn't count in the eyes of the deity.

Marc Dingena

1:24 PM

That's... dark.

eimyr

Is it? I thought to play it for laughs,

Marc Dingena

Playing two shields is certainly interesting, but unless the whole party is evil, I think playing the slaughtering part would derail your party quickly :P

eimyr

It doesn't have to be about pillaging towns and conducting thorough genocide.

nwp

If I was the DM for that I would try to find a way to make the deity not care when you are in trouble at some point because that trouble doesn't count.

eimyr

Just using the shields very offensively, shield bashing everything and slamming them into tripped enemies' faces.

@nwp I'd be cool with that.

Zachiel

1:41 PM

@doppelgreener I once had a convention where, by playing pregenerated characters whose skills I liked, or character concepts I wanted to play, I ended up playing females in the first four gaming sessions. When given a choice at the 5th game, I couldn't resist scoring a 100% Guy In Real Life score

Anne Aunyme

@Zachiel are you a guy in real life?

Marc Dingena

@AnneAunyme Wondering the same...

Anne Aunyme

(we already know you are one on the Internet, where everyone is a guy except cops in disguise)

nwp

Oh no, all that wasted sweet-talking.

Marc Dingena

lol

Zachiel

1:45 PM

@AnneAunyme Yes. My fault for using one of my characters as my avatar.

Anne Aunyme

@Zachiel I would be seriously petty to hold you a grudge for that

One of my characters is a girl but only the GM knows about it

Zachiel

@AnneAunyme Not a fault in that sense, more like "I know what could make you all think the contrary".

Marc Dingena

Mulan style?

Anne Aunyme

@MarcDingena It's a teenager princess from Cheliax who decided she wanted to be a pirate

eimyr

@AnneAunyme Please don't. I know it's a joke, and you're making a sarcastic reference to a joke, but the sooner we forget about "no girls on the internet", even as a joke, the sooner women will feel welcome online.

nwp

1:49 PM

Yes. Also, seriously, not everyone is a guy.

Anne Aunyme

@eimyr i think you are getting the meaning of this joke wrong. As that's not really the place to speak about that I agree not to reference it here if people are not comfortable with it.

eimyr

@AnneAunyme We can talk about it elsewhere if you'd like. Thank you for being nice, I really appreciate it on a very personal level. :)

Marc Dingena

A fetchling gets shadow walk (self only) at 9th level, and plane shift (self only) at 13th level. Plane shift only work towards material or shadow plane... So, what good is plane shift? Can't I already use shadow walk to travel between the shadow plane and material plane?

Anne Aunyme

:) cool!

nwp

I don't understand the answers to the bag of holding question. I though you envision what you want and then grab it from the bag. There is no chance of pulling out a Lich when you envisioned an artifact.

Anne Aunyme

1:53 PM

@MarcDingena which system?

nwp

I suppose that was homebrewed or something.

Marc Dingena

@AnneAunyme Pathfinder, both abilities as Spell-like abilities per fetchling race.

reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/1v0rnj/…

An answer there is "Well seeing as you later get plane shift there, I would say no."

So, yeah... it seems stupid that creatures you take with you with shadow walk (not the fetchling ability, but the spell) can just "let go" of you and wander the shadow plane, but you can't stay there yourself unless you use plane shift

Adam

@nwp There is nothing in the item text that tells you how things are manually removed from the bag, aside from turning it inside out. The only assumption we have to go off of is that you do not immediately find exactly what you are looking for. We can assume that because if you could immediately find exactly what you wanted, there would be no use for a Handy Haversack

nwp

Interesting. I think when they were talking about the bag of holding they actually meant a handy haversack.

BESW

2:08 PM

→ 2 messages moved to Not a bar, but plays one on TV

doppelgreener

@BESW 👍

Adam

@nwp We unfortunately have to take them at face value when they use an item's name correctly like that. Though you could add a comment to the question if you feel that it clarifies things a bit

nwp

@Adam I have really poor communication skills today. "They" in that sentence refers to some other group, not the OP/answerers. Not that you had any way to know that.

Adam

Ah! It's also just as likely that I have horrible interpretation skills today :p

NautArch

So are the contents of a Bag of Holding in the Astral Plane, or is it like a pocket dimension that if destroyed empties into the Astral Plane?

Adam

2:21 PM

@NautArch As I understand it, it's an extradimensional space which, if destroyed, will empty into the Astral Plane. So, a pocket dimension

NautArch

@Adam that's what I thought. Had an idea about travelling to the Astral Plane to find the contents, which led to the idea of the Astral Plane littered with bag of holding materials and that seemed very Human and not likely correct :)

@nitsua60 @doppelgreener Can we clean up the comments on this answer. I'm not sure they're helpful at this point and kinda bummed I couldn't actually have a discussion with Alex about it.

doppelgreener

@NautArch Sure. Would you recommend they be deleted (nuked, gone, boom) or moved to chat?

(you can raise custom flags for this sort of thing in the future, as well -- just flag one of the comments and make a request)

genuine question; if you think there's some virtue to keeping them around for a short while longer i'll just move them to chat.

NautArch

@doppelgreener Oh cool - will do that next time :) I think a chat would be best normally, but it seems like Alex no longer wants to even discuss it.

doppelgreener

Ok, yeah, now that I see his last message I agree. I'll nuke those.

NautArch

so i dunno. My answer covers his concerns, although maybe I could add in the beginning that I'm being very literal in my interpreation of RAW.

doppelgreener

2:28 PM

(@nitsua60 comments handled)

NautArch

grazie - and added a line about how I approached this. I really don't disagree with Alex's approach (or Derek's), I was really just trying to separate common sense application from the RAW (especially since 5e has a lot of rules that don't seem to match common sense)

nitsua60

2:56 PM

@doppelgreener crap... I'm going to drop into the orange on mod-stats again if you keep this up =D

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 not to worry. just reprogram friend computer to calculate mod-stats differently and make sure it doesn't notice.

Zachiel

@nitsua60 By the way, you have no clearance on orange.

eimyr

@Zachiel can I have clearance on lime?

BESW

[rummages through statchel] I have clearance on calamansi, will that do?

eimyr

is that the bastard son of peach and citrus?

Zachiel

3:04 PM

@eimyr Dunno. BTW, I don't have clearance on peach either.

BESW

Mandarin orange and kumquat, probably.

doppelgreener

@eimyr no, it's a really very nice son.

eimyr

shame

I'd kill for citrus-flavoured calamari

NautArch

@eimyr what about calamari-flavored citrus?

eimyr

not so much

NautArch

3:24 PM

@Miniman Oh, sure...just go ahead and answer the whole thing before clarification :)

Miniman

@NautArch In fairness, it's not like there's 2 questions there. There's one question, which is based on a misunderstanding.

NautArch

@Miniman It felt like two separate questions (based on the misunderstanding) that could/should have been separated. I'm guessing @Adam agrees since he also commented with the exact two questions I saw (and that you answered.)

Miniman

@NautArch shrug I guess the votes will out.

Adam

@NautArch Agreed. If they were confused as to why the javelin worked differently, then that is a separate question which, I believe, should have been moved into its own post

NautArch

I mean, you're answer is completely right - it's just two answers in one. But hey, you're the Mod :)

Miniman

3:30 PM

@Adam If the javelin did cast a spell, would you still consider it 2 separate questions?

@NautArch Hey, 100% not a mod.

NautArch

@Miniman oh whoops!

:D

Adam

@Miniman No. But the fact is that the javelin doesn't cast a spell. What if is irrelevant.

Miniman

@NautArch All good, after all we're all mods in a sense.

NautArch

@Miniman I would say it's one question then. Because the item is casting a spell and they're asking for clarification on the level. It's because it's NOT a spell that makes it two questions.

THat being said, I'll still upvote your answer because it's correct. I just think it should be 2 questions and that's not necessarily on you.

Miniman

@Adam @NautArch Because one of the asker's assumptions was wrong doesn't make it 2 questions instead of 1, though. It just means we need to correct that assumption.

Zachiel

3:32 PM

I like how finally my expertise about the GNS system subculture is gettin' me to repcap... ehy, wait. No, no, stop upvoting! Do it tomorrow, do it... sigh. (XD)

Adam

@Miniman We don't know that. If it turns out that they don't understand why the javelin doesn't cast a spell, then they legitimately have 2 questions.

Miniman

@Adam They haven't asked any questions about whether the javelin casts a spell. They've simply stated that it does.

Don't get me wrong, I understand how this could be a separate question. But they haven't asked it.

doppelgreener

@Miniman I chose to close it for the sake of others coming in to answer, but maybe it's not worth requesting that at this point.

Miniman

@doppelgreener Hey, you're the Mod :)

NautArch

@doppelgreener I don't think it is. The querent is getting everything they need in the answer, but I think it's similar to the Wall of Force question in that there is a good answer, but not a good question :).

Adam

3:36 PM

@doppelgreener I think that's unnecessary. The question is fully answered. There is nothing left for anybody to add. The only real reason to make the OP edit anything would be on principle, and for something this small, it isn't worth it. Their problems are solved, so it doesn't matter

doppelgreener

@Miniman alas i was not blessed with The Wisdom of Solomon upon being handed ultimate power.

Miniman

@doppelgreener Hey, I know this one - just cut everything in half. Literally everything, all of the time.

doppelgreener

@Miniman → 3,120 messages moved to Not a bar, but plays one on TV

BESW

@Miniman It's just a matter of where to cut! I suggest dividing the Stack Exchange into Team Edward and Team Jacob.

Adam

I think there is some really small niche area where certain high level magic items can use more charges to cast spells at higher levels, but those are exceptions which are noted in the item description.

doppelgreener

3:39 PM

@Adam thanks for your wisdom folks, i'm going to agree on that & reopen.

BESW

We'll divide those halves into Team Pepsi and Team Coke, which will then split over Star Wars vs Star Trek.

doppelgreener

@BESW what about stargate?

Miniman

@doppelgreener Cut it in half too.

NautArch

@BESW Or Babylon 5?

doppelgreener

Miniman

3:41 PM

@NautArch You mean Babylon 2.5?

doppelgreener

(source)

BESW

Stargate gets cut right down the middle of SG: Atlantis.

Miniman

Anyway, having stirred up some trouble, it's time to go sleep - seeya, everybody!

doppelgreener

@Miniman goodnight!

BESW

Gosh, sleep. That's a thing.

Zachiel

3:42 PM

@BESW Can I be in team Alice? Or Jane?

doppelgreener

@BESW are you doing this thing soon?

BESW

I probably should.

doppelgreener

i think so as well.

NautArch

@doppelgreener Should the comments have been deleted? While Miniman's answer is correct, I think it would have helped Timi (who is new) to improve his question.

doppelgreener

@NautArch hMMmMMmmMMmmm yes okay I'll put yours back.

the other two were deleted by the users who posted them.

NautArch

3:48 PM

@doppelgreener oh - ok! I mean, Timi may not but at least they'll see it :)

doppelgreener

Yeah, I agree on the learning value of leaving it there. :)

Thank you for the edit. — Beany Stryker 1 min ago

:'D comments like this make me feel so nice

NautArch

4:09 PM

@doppelgreener That profile scares me.

doppelgreener

@NautArch 🦇

ShadowKras

4:32 PM

@MarcDingena plane shift is instantaneous/permanent. Shadowwalk has hour/level duration. Also, while you move 50 miles per hour while shadow-walking, you arrive instantly anywhere in the plane of shadows with plane shift. Not to mention that you can shadow-walk, and then plane shift to any location in the material plane.

Adam

5:19 PM

If "nothing can physically pass through" a Wall of Force, does that mean that if I create a sphere around myself with the spell, that the interior is pitch black since no light can enter?

Yuuki

@Adam Unless the light is holy in nature. Then it passes through spiritually.

Or if it's originating from a very cheerful person. Then it passes through metaphorically.

ShadowKras

You will probably die within a few minutes without oxygen aswell.

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