TRPG General Chat

NautArch

12:18 PM

top o the morn!

eimyr

hi

BESW

[wave]

NautArch

I think I have my lowest scoring chosen answer ever :) But also trying to find the question someone asked about 5e ruleset being 'simplified', but can't.

BESW

7

Q: Keeping it simple for new players

I've been DMing for a couple of years, and I have this recurrent problem. My players are now quite experienced, they know the rules, they know how to play. But every once in a while, we invite someone new to D&D to play with us (or a couple of people). When we invite someone new, we describe th...

Anne Aunyme

@NautArch here it's 14, what time is it where you live?

NautArch

12:23 PM

@BESW Saw that one, but it's not the one I"m thinking of. I could have sworn there was a recent 5e question about the design intent for a simplified game.

@AnneAunyme I guess you're Over the Top of the Morn :)

I'm Eastern

BESW

5

Q: Are the design goals for 5e currently available?

Numerous questions and answers refer to the design goals of 5th edition, and if a reference is given, it is to a no-longer valid link at wizards.com. Are the design goals of 5e currently available, and where?

dnd-5e history-of-gaming game-design

NautArch

I may be misremembering...but could have sworn it was recent.

I may be thinking of this one but that isn't right either.

BESW

There are a number of questions about specific elements which have the same broad implied background question.

8

Q: What is the origin of Dis/Advantage in D&D 5?

I was listening to a podcast on D&D 5 discussing its design. They mentioned the mechanic of Dis/Advantage as being one of the coolest aspects of the game. I was wondering: Is this innovation created by the D&D 5 designers, or did this pre-exist in prior role playing games in a recognizable form? ...

dnd-5e game-design history-of-gaming

10

Q: Have the developers of D&D 5e explained why they made Opportunity Attacks work the way they do?

I have a friend who has a very strong opinion that the rules of threatened range and opportunity attacks D&D 5e are completely irrational, which is fine. As a DM he house-rules the stuff from 3.5e at the very least. His main problems are these: You can move around an opponent, as though they a...

dnd-5e dnd-3.5e opportunity-attack edition-comparison designer-reasons

NautArch

maybe i need to ask it :) but could have sworn there was already a question about 5e being less simulationist and more about the game then real world simulation.

BESW

Also this.

NautArch

12:27 PM

that's the one!

BESW

5

Q: Are the design goals for 5e currently available?

Numerous questions and answers refer to the design goals of 5th edition, and if a reference is given, it is to a no-longer valid link at wizards.com. Are the design goals of 5e currently available, and where?

dnd-5e history-of-gaming game-design

NautArch

the OA question :)

thank you!

BESW

[bow and a flourish] Making the Stack search engine dance is a specialty.

NautArch

I do think it's funny (even though I obviously agree) that my answer with a total of 1 vote is the chosen one.

14

Q: Does Earthbind cause falling damage?

The earthbind spell from Elemental Evil reduces a creature's flying speed to zero and forces it to descend 60 feet per turn for the spell's duration. Assuming the creature flew higher than 10 feet, does this mean it will suffer falling damage? Maybe making the question more interesting: if you t...

dnd-5e spells

BESW

There's a badger for that if other answers get enough more upvotes.

Wait, wrong badger.

NautArch

12:30 PM

Won't they get that badge? I've got the lowest scoring answer and chosen.

BESW

Hmm. I could've sworn there was a "give an accepted but unpopular answer" badger.

Anne Aunyme

mushroom mushroom...

eimyr

@NautArch I learned never to ask BESW anything that could be a good Stack Q unless I want to see half a dozen links as an answer.

NautArch

@eimyr hahaha

eimyr

...that wasn't a joke

NautArch

12:36 PM

@eimyr ouch.

Anne Aunyme

but it was funny anyway

eimyr

...it wasn't an insult either.

nitsua60

@trogdor summer's fast approaching =)

Anne Aunyme

brace yourself?

trogdor

@nitsua60 ah yes

it is indeed

eimyr

12:37 PM

@nitsua60 The summer is coming.

nitsua60

@Adeptus Yes.

eimyr

^ that was a joke :P

nitsua60

@AnneAunyme I had casually mentioned a while back to @troggy, among others, that I might throw open an online one-off 5e adventure, attempting to time it well for my Pacific friends to participate.

BESW

If it's during July I might be available.

doppelgreener

@BESW there is give popular answer to unpopular question, or beat a less-popular accepted answer, but there's never been an "unpopular answer" badge -- just the Peer Pressure badge for deleting the post. :)

trogdor

12:44 PM

@nitsua60 the only time I think I won't be able to do it is during work

that being said, that is a significant chunk of my day on the week days

nitsua60

@NautArch I'll say I didn't upvote it because of the line "all points lead to YES." I think you're missing one big one: natural language. It seems to me that descending (as defined in the spell) doesn't really comport with the plain reading of "falling"; as "falling" isn't a defined game term anywhere, I've got to go with plain English being its meaning.

@BESW I first read that as "If it's during 1 July 2017 I might be available." Which seemed both rather precise and rather honest.

BESW

Unfortunately chances are I won't be able to make it during the times Troggy can. Give the precedence to Troggy in scheduling.

trogdor

the BURNINATOR requires sleep, mortals may engage with the BURNINATOR again in roughly T-minus 8 hours

NautArch

@nitsua60 Totally reasonable - although Descent includes controlled and uncontrolled.

I changed the language a bit there (and added a section at the end), but I don't thin it really addresses your concern. You can use natural language to argue Descend means controlled or uncontrolled, but the comparison against other spells that state no damage seems to me the primary reason to say there is.

nitsua60

@trogdor [sets chat-event: "Return of TROGDOR"]

@NautArch you mean by omission of any mention of damage-prevention?

NautArch

12:55 PM

@nitsua60 yes, the similar spells/abilities that I listed specifically say no damage/limited damage.

Anne Aunyme

@nitsua60 As you play with your pacific friends, does that mean you will have to stop a war or something? I can't play this kind of scenario with my warlike friends

NautArch

and it just seems kind of odd to say that this spell, which requires a save, also gently places the enemy on the ground.

doppelgreener

@trogdor farewell the BURNINATOR

nitsua60

@AnneAunyme Yes. We're going to use the 5e ruleset to roleplay an international peace conference. I'll drop the Twitch link here =D

Anne Aunyme

I may watch it, if I'm not asleep when it occurs...

nitsua60

12:57 PM

@NautArch I dunno... for me the difference between descending 60' and falling 576' is dispositive. I don't try to read too much physics into D&D, but order of magnitude....

[confession: I try to read way too much physics into D&D]

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 [leans in real close and whispers] D&D fall damage is calculated based on distance fallen rather than anything to do with falling speed

NautArch

@nitsua60 that was also why I sort of countered (in comments) Derek's statement on the dash action of distance. Are you saying that any controlled descent, like jumping 20', wont cause damage? You've moved 20' in 6 seconds (slower than 60' in 6 seconds), but the rules still say you should get 2d6 damage, right?

nitsua60

@doppelgreener [cough] distance is a nice proxy for energy of impact [cough]

NautArch

@doppelgreener I should clarify that in my answer. I was mostly trying to say that in my last paragraph.

BESW

In D&D 3.5, you can use Tumble to reduce the damage of a fall regardless of distance or context.

nitsua60

1:00 PM

@NautArch are you talking about, say, jumping down from a 20' ledge?

NautArch

@nitsua60 Sure :)

BESW

(Falling damage caps at 20d6, and a reasonable Tumble check can reduce it to 18d6 no matter how much you've exceeded the cap by.)

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 [cough] nevertheless [cough] the D&D world doesn't have a concept of energy of impact and physical damage is based not on present speed or status but on some past-reaching concept of distance and is discongruous with real world physics [cough, takes cough drop]

NautArch

@BESW er...I don't think there is a Tumble check in 5e.

BESW

(Falling damage caps once let us use a dropped dwarven defender as a makeshift battering drill.)

nitsua60

1:02 PM

@NautArch but Acrobatics is close enough =)

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 "roll acrobatics to reduce the damage of your plummet from orbit"

NautArch

@doppelgreener That's the main rub and problem with 5e. They made things simple. But doing so means the rules often don't mesh with the real world. Adjusting at the table is fine, but then that's a houserule to add a complexity that doesn't exist in the base rules.

nitsua60

@NautArch this is a fair point.

BESW

@NautArch Or do what my group did, and assume the rules are accurate models of the physics of the adventurer's world.

doppelgreener

i gotta say, there was a bit of room for making them simpler that wasn't covered, but i'll accept they made them simpler and made them only moderately complex compared to very

nitsua60

1:04 PM

All this ^^, of course, partially stems from the fact that "fall" isn't a defined game-term. So when you (@NautArch) pose a 20' ledge and ask if jumping down should occasion 2d6 damage, we've all got in our heads different ways that you could get down. Fall off, hang-and-drop, parkour....

doppelgreener

@BESW squircles!

nitsua60

@BESW This is where I find the most fun =)

NautArch

@nitsua60 If you can make a case for reduced distance, I think that's fine. If the DM wants to rule an acrobatics check to reduce damage, that's fine. But all of those, in my mind, are table variants and DM fiat to override the base 1d6/10'.

BESW

Heheh. (Because of the way movement works on the grid in 4e, circles are squares and squares are circles. Triangles, we decided, require sanity checks.)

nitsua60

So to finally answer your question about what *I'd* rule when a PC jumps off a 20' ledge:
I flash back to the time I was (literally) thrown off the third story of a building and landed with barely a scratch, and then also to that time I slipped two feet and broke an ankle requiring screws and 6 mo. in a boot.
And I turn to the table and ask what they think's fair, go with that, and jot it on our list of "table rulings." =D

doppelgreener

1:07 PM

Jan 19 '13 at 8:25, by BESW

Player: [points at brown 3x3 square on the grid] "Is this a wall?"
Me: "That's a tree."
Player: "Oh."
Me: "It's round."
Party: [falls out of chairs]

nitsua60

@NautArch Yeah, hang-and-drop can easily cut off 10' in my thinking.

NautArch

@nitsua60 Okay...but what would you say a by-the-book ruling would be?

or...RAW...if you will.

muahahahaha

BESW

(Also, the physical properties of distance are different depending on whether you're moving within a 5x5 cube or between 5x5 cubes. This explains why creatures tend to be angrier the larger they are.)

3

nitsua60

@doppelgreener I like the way @BESW so casually drops in the subtle hint that it's currently autumn =)

NautArch

@nitsua60 and let's just say you aren't hanging and dropping, but simply jumping down.

doppelgreener

1:10 PM

@nitsua60 brown for tree trunk! (where BESW lives, there is no concept of autumn: there's only rainy season and dry season, and a year-long summer once per year.)

BESW

(that is, circles are circles and squares are squares so long as they can fit inside a 5x5 cube. It's only when they get bigger than 5x5x5 that they invert. Now imagine that going on inside your own larger-than-Medium-sized body.)

Well, rainy season and dry season and trade wind season and typhoon season and termite season and Russian tourist season and...

doppelgreener

@BESW this has lead to confusion for many alchemists who need to draw an alchemy circle at smaller and larger scales, which also explains why there are so few people who bother to learn alchemy.

BESW

@doppelgreener They wind up accidentally becoming star pact warlocks instead?

doppelgreener

@BESW are you implying that Russian tourist season is a weather event?

@BESW Yes. XD

Magician

@doppelgreener It's a hunting event.

doppelgreener

1:13 PM

@Magician that's only slightly less concerning.

BESW

(I never did get to play my star pact warlock whose madness was that she's convinced she's still just an astronomer.)

eimyr

Is Star Pact the one where you deal with totally-not-Cthulhu?

doppelgreener

@BESW Why fish?

BESW

@doppelgreener Because it's funny.

doppelgreener

(Oh. That was me making a reference while saying 'why not'.)

nitsua60

1:15 PM

I think I've got to say 1d6. Here's the thinking:
You narrated jumping down, not falling down. Neither is a defined term, so we should respect the distinction in English. (Jumping long and jumping high are detailed, but not jumping down.) So jumping down should be less injurious than falling down. Dropping a d6 is the simplest way to accomplish that.
I'll admit there's no rule that specifically says "jump = fall - 10'," but there's also no rule that says what falling even *is*. So we devolve to the explicit "deal with it yourself" rule.

doppelgreener

🤔 It's possible she could transfer into Amaterasu as a Weird Astronomer. She was an astronomer, Weird Stuff happened, and she's convinced nothing has changed and everything is just fish.

BESW

@eimyr Aye. In the Points of Light setting, the stars are malevolent beings from outside the multiverse. You can tap into a tiny fragment of their awesome reality-ignoring power, but will probably wind up contributing to the destruction of all creation.

NautArch

@nitsua60 I think that's totally reasonable to differentiate types of vertical distance change.

BESW

in Fate chat and game room, Dec 19 '14 at 2:34, by BESW

She had no idea that she was a warlock, instead believing her powers came from her understanding and manipulation of practical astrology. The quirk where she occasionally says "fish" instead of whatever she means to say? What are you talking about? She's perfectly fish.

NautArch

@nitsua60 But I also think that's a Ruling vs the Rules. ALthough that may only be because I'm reading "falling" as any vertical distance change because I tend to read things literally.

and that there aren't any rules on differentiating vertical drops.

nitsua60

1:19 PM

@NautArch but in all honesty, this is the sort of situation where I usually throw it out to the table and gauge facial expressions for a sec. I do think "figuring out the game" is a fun part of the game for some, and is laborious/tedious for others. If the table seems into taking three minutes brainstorming the rule (like we-all were doing) then let's do that! If not, I'll move on in 5 sec of my own accord =)

NautArch

@nitsua60 definitely, and I may be looking at this through the lens of just seeing it at my table last week and the DM ruled damage.

nitsua60

@NautArch but the words "falling" and "jumping" differentiate... can I ask why that doesn't factor in for you?

NautArch

Mostly because we liked the idea that Earthbind was dragging someone down to the ground. It didn't feel right for that enemy to arrive safely.

nitsua60

Jan 10 at 4:15, by nitsua60

New site-motto contender: we can't argue with your DM for you (emphasis in original). Though perhaps it's a better site-subtitle than site-motto?

=D

BESW

There comes a point where neither RAW nor RAI are reasonable lenses to apply to a concept, because no reading of the situation can accurately be said to encompass either category.

3

Adam

1:20 PM

@NautArch Considering 5e's mantra is "rulings over rules", perhaps such an interpretation almost as raw as the rest of the written rules are

BESW

Don't be seduced by the easy lure of a simple false dichotomy.

NautArch

@nitsua60 hmm. I'd feel better about it if Wizards did a better job using consistent language :)

@Adam Yes, but I don't like using that as reason. It means EVERY rule is up for interpretation and there is no RAW.

nitsua60

@Adam I... agree hesitatingly... as long as "rulings over rules" is understood to mean "we've decided to leave lots of stuff open to rulings, because we trust tables and value diversity of play experience," rather than "rulings trump rules." They do, but the sort of ruling that trumps a rule should (IMO) be thought of in a very different category than the sort of ruling that deals with an unhandled situation.

Adam

@NautArch Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Though, I'm starting to think that RAW is kind of stupid anyway, so that may just be me rebelling.

NautArch

@Adam I think RAW seems stupid because of the Simplicity issue.

nitsua60

1:23 PM

@NautArch What level is Earthbind?

NautArch

@nitsua60 2nd level

BESW

@NautArch That's okay, though. RAW is just a tool for trying to find objective common ground for discussion of rules for a game where each group's different playstyle and needs mean there's no actual coherent objective experience of the game.

nitsua60

And fly is 3?

NautArch

yeah

BESW

Trying to play "by RAW" is ignoring one of the great strengths of tabletop gaming; but to talk about rules without a particular play context, and with people outside your own group, RAW is a very useful conceit.

nitsua60

1:26 PM

@NautArch So that, for me, makes the argument that earthbind should cause damage a little weaker. Taking away flight is a Big Deal. (Because flight is a Big Deal.) To me that's "enough" for a L2 spell. Doing 6d6 damage on top of that? I don't know that it's overpowered per se, because it's so situational, but it surely doesn't seem to me that "only lose flight" is underpowered, either.

BESW

(RAW's also often conflated with system mastery, which is gaining proficiency and understanding of a system so you can make it work for your group's needs more easily and effectively. Studying RAW is a common step on the path to system mastery, in systems which support RAW in the first place.)

NautArch

@nitsua60 Yeah, I did add an addendum about Magical Flight/Hover to my answer. Mearls rules one way, but I don't really like it (although I do understand it).

@nitsua60 But if they only have a fly speed with no hover/magical flight, I do believe they should come crashing to the ground.

nitsua60

@NautArch certainly fair. There's plenty of space in those wordings to allow different interpretations.

NautArch

It was fun to see a Planetar get dragged down 160', though :)

nitsua60

To me, the sum-total of those sorts of rulings should be viewed through the lens of "did we say we want a gritty, or high-magic, or supers-level PCs, or knife-edge-of-death experience."

(Rather, the rulings should be made with an eye toward that discussion, assumed to have previously happened.)

Miniman

1:39 PM

@nitsua60 But...there are 1st-level spells that do that.

nitsua60

@Miniman What, the 6d6 damage?

Miniman

@nitsua60 Take away flight and deal the falling damage. Although range would normally be an issue, I guess.

Adam

@Miniman Which spells? Sleep and Tasha's Hideous Laughter are the only ones that come to mind for me, but if the target is flying magically, I think they remain aloft

Miniman

@Adam Also Command, but yeah, you're right that targets with magical flight will be OK.

Also, nice pick - I didn't think of Sleep, and it's amazing for this. 110 foot range, and it'll also deal with concentration-based flight. Very nice.

nitsua60

@Miniman That's a super-interesting use-case. It's the flip-side of the "usual" desired circumstance, where you want to use it for crowd-control on mooks because using it on higher-HP enemies is so likely to catch one of your allies, or waste the hp pool if you center it to avoid your allies... "You wanna stay away? Alright...!"

Papayaman1000

1:49 PM

Darn it @Yuuki

Miniman

@nitsua60 I mean, this is really just another case of "Sleep is super-hax overpowered at the levels where it works at all".

doppelgreener

@Papayaman1000 As a former resident of Standard Oz, I'm not sure what this Troy Oz is. Are they referring to New Zealand?

eimyr

2:11 PM

creativity needed

in a fantasy setting, who would be warmly welcomed and elicit favourable reactions by arriving at a town?

I'm looking not for particular people but rather archetypes.

nitsua60

entertainer

tinker

how large's the town?

NautArch

depends on the town

eimyr

doesn't matter, either a tiny hamlet or a huge city

NautArch

I think there is a big variance there.

eimyr

if it causes the folk to be happy, it's fine

NautArch

2:15 PM

right, but large cities vs small hamlets will have different htings that make them happy

nitsua60

circus

ShadowKras

Wouldnt that depend on what their relationship is?

eimyr

@NautArch let me rephrase: pick one or many. Does it make folks happy? If yes, it's OK.

NautArch

Or are you looking for the overlap of similarity - in which case it doesn't matter.

nitsua60

counter-question: what's "normal" in your setting? Then, someone/-thing that isn't is your target =)

NautArch

2:16 PM

but something like a trader would be incredibly warmly welcomed by a hamlet, but a large town doesn't because it's normal.

nitsua60

"It's sooo hard to get any _____ around here. I love it when _____ arrives."

eimyr

@nitsua60 setting sees newcomers as potential danger first, inconvenient hassle second, anything else after that.

nitsua60

Sub-arctic port-city: ship arrives with tropical fruits.

Anne Aunyme

the guy who sells wondrous things from a land far far away

NautArch

But I think large scale entertainers and visiting royalty of a favored nation would qualify.

nitsua60

2:18 PM

Tropical city: ship arrives with a hold full of ice-preserved goods. Enterprising sailors set up on the docks selling slushies to the kids with the leftover hold-ice.

NautArch

@AnneAunyme in a large city with stores that sells things form a lands far far away, another vendor isn't a big deal.

Anne Aunyme

possibly a visit from a religious personality, depending on your setting

eimyr

@NautArch actually, I disagree, visiting VIPs are just another thing that adds to the common folk's burden

Anne Aunyme

@NautArch of course, but has the size of the settlement been clarified yet?

NautArch

@eimyr That's fair.

ShadowKras

2:20 PM

@AnneAunyme upon further reading the FAQs about archetypes, i realized that no published archetype can stack with crossblooded.

doppelgreener

@eimyr chef. wandering merchant. anyone with a trade the town does not have and needs: blacksmith, carpenter, leatherworker, etc.

NautArch

@AnneAunyme It hasn't but won't be. I think @eimyris looking for the overlap between all settlement types?

Anne Aunyme

@ShadowKras yeah, that's sad, but most of them can work with a small houseruling

eimyr

@NautArch precisely the opposite.

NautArch

@eimyr I am very confused then.

Anne Aunyme

2:21 PM

roll a D100 then (I am standing far away from you)

eimyr

@NautArch if any member of a set of all town types would be wholly satisfied by the arrival, the example is useful.

nitsua60

@eimyr the executioner/headsman

@eimyr depends whether that's true or not. Perhaps that's the occasion for a holiday?

</tautology>

NautArch

@eimyr okay, but that list is huge :) as shown by all examples listed above. Then I think it goes to @nitsua60

5 mins ago, by nitsua60

"It's sooo hard to get any _____ around here. I love it when _____ arrives."

eimyr

@nitsua60 holidays are at the folk's expense so, that's precisely a reason to whinge

nitsua60

@eimyr are they?

eimyr

2:23 PM

@nitsua60 of course they are :D

nitsua60

(That seems a setting detail, to me.)

ShadowKras

@eimyr prostitutes.

Anne Aunyme

typically the lawful guys (guards, maybe merchants, etc...) will be very pleased by the Return of the King(tm)

eimyr

@ShadowKras aaand we have a winner

Adam

@eimyr A god.

ShadowKras

2:23 PM

lol

Anne Aunyme

wifes don't typically enjoy the arrival of prostitutes

NautArch

@AnneAunyme depends on the morality of your setting. And prostitues aren't just for men :)

ShadowKras

some wifes don't.

Adam

@AnneAunyme Depending on the religious presence of the town, neither would the clergy

Anne Aunyme

I know, thats what the "typically" is for

eimyr

2:24 PM

@Adam I"m pretty sure the clergy would be especially happy, just quietly so.

ShadowKras

i think the only people who wouldnt be happy are the paladins.

and on 5ed, thats no longer true.

Anne Aunyme

@Adam I have a great uncle who was a missionary and he spent a lot of time among prostitutes FOR HIS JOB.

eimyr

OK, another question.

nitsua60

@eimyr having the boss show up is always a mixed bag =)

Anne Aunyme

or Gandalf

everyone likes when Gandalf is coming

ShadowKras

2:26 PM

prostitutes are hardly the travelling types though.

eimyr

What character archetype would have an especially easy time setting up a rapport, positive relationships with pretty much anyone (x) soon after arriving at a new place. (x) anyone, as in, a tendency to have an easier time.

ShadowKras

but who knows.

NautArch

@AnneAunyme Not Sauron. Or the Rohan when Wormtongue was active. :)

Anne Aunyme

Captain Carrot (not really a traveler though)

NautArch

@eimyr Probably Bards?

Adam

2:27 PM

@eimyr A bard. A charming thief. Anybody with mind-control magic. A rich guy who is okay with buying loyalty.

eimyr

Carrot is not an archetype, unless there is a Guild of Carrot impersonators and Carrot is a class like barbarian or rogue

NautArch

Bards are entertaining, helpful, can cast spells, etc.

doppelgreener

@eimyr i don't understand how to parse this.

NautArch

But even if they're mending, etc. that's going ot annoy tradesfolk who do the same thing and charge.

doppelgreener

is (x) a footnote indicator here?

eimyr

2:29 PM

it is

doppelgreener

ok.

eimyr

I tried an asterisk, but markdown

nitsua60

@NautArch [citation needed] on the first two, at least =P

Anne Aunyme

if Carrot is not a valid answer I would say a child. People tend to like children for no special reason

doppelgreener

a glamorous knight of the realm of whom stories are told and whose behaviour and company upholds his image (as opposed to him turning out to be a real [expletive] in person).

eimyr

2:30 PM

I'm not sure about mind-controlling magic - on one hand it would be super useful in particular instances, but at the same time antagonise everyone else

doppelgreener

a minstrel or band of minstrels.

a tradesman of a craft the town needs -- mostly everyone would be thankful he's there for a while if he can help them out.

nitsua60

@eimyr my college roommate. Within days everyone on campus knew his name.

NautArch

@eimyr citations that someone giving something away for free would annoy existing tradesmen?

Anne Aunyme

a minstrel can have a hard time integrating in a very difficult place

doppelgreener

a member of the clergy of the local religion who is also capable of being on quite friendly terms with those who share no affinity with his religion or agreement with his dogma.

Anne Aunyme

2:31 PM

where people have a tough life

eimyr

I think I'll go with some religious person.

Anne Aunyme

some monk?

eimyr

If they are travelling clergy, then the ability to make quick friends and establish authority is their bread-making skill

doppelgreener

i'd pick a monk with a good bodyguard or combat training, if we could add details.

might be a knight-turned-monk.

nitsua60

IRL the key factor seems not to be what the person can do for others, but how they are with others.

Anne Aunyme

2:34 PM

or a stereotypical asian monk

eimyr

awright

thanks, RPG.SE

nitsua60

I think you just need a really genuine, friendly, sincere person to show up. Perhaps with a mellifluous voice and an easily-identifiable quirk. So everyone can say "oh, you haven't met red-hat Bob yet?"

@eimyr any time, all the time =)

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 yeah, if it's a matter of "has an easy time setting up a rapport", absolutely anyone can do that provided they have the people skills to be good with people.

eimyr

red-hat Rob is the guy who helps everyone migrate to Linux

doppelgreener

it seems in recent years i've been leaving a good impression anywhere i go, and that's 100% to do with how i am with people. same for BESW.

eimyr

2:38 PM

@doppelgreener "Korg the Destroyer arrived. Korg decrees a week long festival in his name. [throws gold pieces into the crowd] Korg commands revelry and merrymaking!"

@doppelgreener maybe you are a bard? I we can sequester BESW as clergy then.

doppelgreener

TIL a man named John Snow was instrumental in advancing modern medicine

(safe to say he didn't know nothin')

@eimyr Korg the Destroyer isn't so bad a person so long as he's funding a festival and the local village and isn't destroying you personally

eimyr

He just wants everyone to let their hair down. He's a hero, not a lone hero

Adam

@doppelgreener I've heard that Vlad the Impaler was quite popular among those that he wasn't, you know, impaling.

nitsua60

@doppelgreener father of statistics, by many textbooks' tellings.

Yuuki

Korg the Destroyer got his name from a mangling of his original title which he got from a famous incident in which he yelled at a table. He used to be known as Korg the Desk Oy-er.

doppelgreener

2:47 PM

[groan] XD

that's awful

NautArch

@Adam so is Putin :)

Yuuki

@Adam Another case of misheard titles. Vlad was well known in his youth for brewing libations for minor demons. To the point where he was known as the Imp Ale-r.

User @Yuuki was removed the room 'RPG General Chat'.

Adam

Yuuki bringing in the zingers today. How does he do it?

@Yuuki I heard that he worked for various royal law offices, but was so in demand, that he never left his office. For which, he was eventually named Korg, the Desk Lawyer. His near perfect record in the courts (99 successful cases, and 1 rather dramatic failure) led to his new nickname as "the Destroyer" especially since a court case with him would typically leave the other party bankrupt.

Anne Aunyme

Wasn't he a greek, friend of Achilles, the "Death Troy er"?

NautArch

@AnneAunyme and I believe he's from Troy Oz, too.

eimyr

3:04 PM

I'm thinking in my next campaign there's going to be LN god called Metric. He won't be very exciting to worship, but at least conversion will be easy.

Anne Aunyme

imperials are always evil, it's a known trope

Adam

0

Q: Solving player - GM disputes about using props

I have been playing D&D for a couple of months now, so I'm still a bit new on the whole being a GM thing. :) Recently, I had an adventure with my regular group and we kind of fell into a discussion about using props, since I like to incorporate some of the ingame skills into real-life by adminis...

dungeons-and-dragons problem-players props

That sounds awesome! Why would anyone want to skip all that immersion?

GreySage

@Adam As a social recluse, I wouldn't want to deal with all that. When I get to play DnD, I want to actually play the game.

Adam

I think that kind of stuff is the game. Or at least part of the game.

NautArch

@Adam That table sounds amazing. SOunds like 1:1 discussion with that player needs to happen to find out why they don't like it.

RedRiderX

3:16 PM

@doppelgreener Here's a good series on it:

England: The Broad Street Pump - I: You Know Nothing, John Snow - Extra History

►

doppelgreener

@RedRiderX Thanks! :D

Adam

@NautArch Indeed. I could understand something like handing your players a puzzle box and saying "solve this" could be a pain. But giving them goblets to drink out of, handing out various props that relate to in game items, or making the bard's players sing a short song when the character sings (especially if they are cool with it), is freaking awesome.

MadMAxJr

3:39 PM

Different players have different wants. Usually you discover this in your first few sessions or by flat out asking, "What do you want out of a session?"

JuneShores

Hi hi.

MadMAxJr

Hello.

The Oracle

4:01 PM

0

Q: What is RPG.SE's relationship with the makers of the Same Page Tool?

I've noticed that the same page tool is promoted a lot by people here. I'm in no way shape or form saying that this is a bad thing; I personally find it very useful myself and I have never had a game where I've run a successful session 0 fall apart due to disputes among the party. However, that s...

discussion

nitsua60

4:20 PM

@GreySage @Adam @NautArch sounds like an "8 kinds of fun" problem: if we don't explicitly talk about what's fun for each, we sometimes get stuck trying to provide fun for all. (Which is pretty tough.)

GreySage

@nitsua60 Indeed

doppelgreener

@JuneShores Hi!

@nitsua60 fun for all and all for fun!

doppelgreener

5:52 PM

Some gorily evocative language from SevenSidedDie:

> This one is going to be a DM's call, because whether a “special melee attack” is a “melee attack” is going to depend on whether the DM deems it obviously a melee attack because it's part of the name, or deems it obviously a distinct, separate thing because it's a special melee attack — and I can easily see DMs splitting down the middle on that point.

NautArch

@doppelgreener How very King Solomon.

doppelgreener

@Adam Well I'm less posting this for the DM's call thing, more about the splitting thing described at the end. :D

Adam

I'm going to go jump off a bridge now (metaphorically)

good bye

doppelgreener

nooooooooooooooooo!

bye!

Yuuki

6:09 PM

The King Solomon Ruling: If you disagree with the DM, you and the DM take opposite ends of your character sheet and pull.

8

SevenSidedDie

6:23 PM

@doppelgreener Now I'm reminded of the rules-parsing nightmare that was

17

Q: Can you heal a split black pudding?

In 3.5, black puddings possess: Split (Ex) Slashing and piercing weapons deal no damage to a black pudding. Instead the creature splits into two identical puddings, each with half of the original’s current hit points (round down). A pudding with 10 hit points or less cannot be further split...

pathfinder dnd-3.5e monsters

NautArch

I just keep thinking about alchemical wildfire

but that's not biological

CM_Dayton

6:50 PM

We need more Contingency use cases.

NautArch

@CM_Dayton I really want to play a wizard now :)

per my edit....I really wish I had grabbed Contingency for my bard!

CM_Dayton

7:07 PM

:)

NautArch

you know someone has asked a good question when it prompts more questions

CM_Dayton

7:25 PM

Yeah. Or sends you down "Oooh, I could do this..!" pathways.

NautArch

@doppelgreener Remember the Gorgons!

such a great movie

Thyzer

8:01 PM

Is "above" a correct term for numerical values? Is it okay to say 20 is above 19?

Someone upvoted a question I asked 10 month ago and it disturbs me, that I used 'above' in that question in this way...

NautArch

I'd say that's legitimate

you could change it to "Greater than" if you really wanted to

GreySage

@NautArch "You hit on any roll above 15" pretty clearly communicates "16 or higher" to me.

doppelgreener

@NautArch i can't say i've seen it!

@Thyzer yes, that's fine.

NautArch

@GreySage Agreed, but if it bothers @Thyzer then it's an easy fix :) But it's fine.

@doppelgreener bad joke refrence to Remember the Titans

doppelgreener

it's more common to use "20 is greater than 19" in that phrase, but "above" can be just fine too.

@NautArch oh! :D i heard of that one!

NautArch

8:11 PM

great movie

GreySage

9:31 PM

What are your opinions on useless die rolls?

Specifically, I'm DMing for a group of new players, and I'll occasionally call for things like a perception roll, then no matter the result tell them what they need to know.

My thinking is that it helps them get a handle on the mechanics of the game better, by giving them chances to try it out.

ACuriousMind

My opinion is that you shouldn't call for a roll if it won't change anything about the outcome.

What mechanics would they be learning here, exactly, if the roll doesn't matter? How to roll a die?

GreySage

@ACuriousMind Yes. Giving them practice in looking up what numbers they need to add together to get their total result (they struggle sometimes).

WrongOnTheInternet

@GreySage Gonna agree with ACuriousMind here. If you want to give information, give it. If you want to hide information, hide it. Don't waste time on useless rolls.

Adam

@GreySage They should do that with real challenges and real outcomes.

WrongOnTheInternet

As for getting them used to mechanics: better to do it with useful rolls. Better still to state the DC openly a few times, to get them used to how that works.

ACuriousMind

9:36 PM

@GreySage Perfectly normal for new players to struggle there, but I don't think offering them "rolls" without any meaning is a good remedy for that.

Adam

@WrongOnTheInternet Agreed. Also, not having them roll when an outcome is certain teaches them that there is no risk of failure (rolling really low on a die) for certain actions. Events that are certain to succeed, just do.

That might help them become more descriptive with how they do things and more comfortable putting themselves in the world, rather than just interacting with the world by asking you what skill check to make.

GreySage

@Adam That makes sense. I'd heard the "don't roll if there is no chance of failure" thing before, but I figured I'd ask.

Adam

Skill checks, as I understand it, weren't even a thing in the early days (OD&D and AD&D 1e and 2e?) It was just attack rolls and saving throws. Instead you told the DM what you wanted to do, and how to do it, and they decided if it would work and to what degree based on your description.

WrongOnTheInternet

@GreySage Useless rolls also teach players the exact wrong thing. "No matter what I roll, sometimes my skills just don't matter, and my choices don't matter. This roll is just an illusion to make me feel like I'm having an effect."

BESW

Feb 22 at 1:07, by BESW

GM guideline: never call for a roll if you're not okay with any possible outcome it might offer.

4

Transcript for