so I'm thinking either half-elf barbarian or tabaxi fighter if I wanted to roll a straight martial for once, half-orc paladin emulator (i.e. Ftr1/Clr many -- this'd be an uplevel version of an existing char, btw), or a dark elf/drow (!) or lizardfolk ranger emulator (Ftr2/Nature Clr 4 if you think that'd work as a ranger emulator build re: archery and casting)
@Karelzarath stats don't cap at 20, ASIs do. Magical items will get you into the low 20s. (And then there's the bless, guidance, bardic insp., &c. routes.)
It's hard, to be sure. But if you really want it, you max the stat through ASIs (+5), get to high level for +6 or even +7 proficiency, get some help from a friend (add a d4 and a d8 from bless and bardic insp), maybe appiy a skill with expertise (add another +6 or +7). That's a +26 to a skill check, or a +12 to a raw stat-check. Not impossible. Just takes some doing. =)
part of me wants to do a caster-ranger-emulator, another part of me wants to dust off my extant half-orc paladin emulator to see how that build'd work at L6, and another part of me wants to do a pure martial, either a half-elf barbarian or a tabaxi fighter
@Patta I forget if I ever responded--thanks. Sadly, my original impetus was looking for unanswered questions so I could round out my badge collection. And we're super-light on unanswered questions around here so it was pretty slim pickings. But once I got 500 pp. in, the project had its own momentum.
@daze413 Having DMed for a Moon Druid all the way up to level 12, I've gone off them a little. Their damage output doesn't really compare to an actual fighting class, so they're basically giant sacks of HP that enemies should generally ignore.
(Then I ended up answering an unanswered Traveller question while reading all those Dragons, getting the badge, and "losing" the original impetus for that rat-answer. C'est la guerre....)
@daze413 Yep, of course. That's a good point, too - once elementals were on the table, he basically ignored beasts, despite the lower cost and arguably superior tactical options.
Prior to level 9 he was using the octopus a lot. (At level 9 he started using the scorpion, then at level 10 he basically used elementals exclusively.)
I'm not saying Moon Druids are weak, or underpowered, or anything like that - just that they lose their huge early-game advantages and become a class that feels somewhat low-impact.
@Miniman Yeah, they definitely peak around 4 or 5 in terms of combat, IME. Maybe they poke their heads back up at 6, but once the martials have Extra Attack the druids' forms just aren't as important a threat. OTOH, I can't think of a class whose defining characteristic is so well balanced between combat- and noncombat-effectiveness.
@Shalvenay I think the idea is "Ftr2 Cl4 does a good job of catching a lot of what the ranger class actually does as written." But we all pooh-pooh the ranger class for being weak and unfocused. So why not imagine what you want in a ranger, then pick MC classes/levels to achieve that?
So I'd step back from D&D mechanics and ask "what do you want a ranger to be?"
@daze413 The barbarian part comes from people who know the books well enough to fee like "the hunter" that Drizzt discovered during Exile needs some mechanical recognition.
@daze413 I suspect--though he should correct me if I'm wrong--that Shalv would tend to stay in archer-form during combat and use WS out of combat. (Expl, recon, &c.)
@daze413 Yeah, the question is whether there's a L2 druid spell that he cares about.
I know this is going to sound like I'm pushing an agenda, but Bard actually has a lot of the nature-ish spells on its list, as well as being Cha-based.
@nitsua60 When/if you do the analysis, remember too that while a minute is a long time in combat, it's not long enough to cast it before combat, so your first turn is only going to be 2 attacks.
@Miniman I probably won't even do the analysis. I can't imagine that over the few levels it'd be in play it'd make up for losing precision dice and SA damage. (And, in the end, I'm cuckoo for all my swashbuckler features. They only see the light of day every few sessions, but the look on my GM's face as he remembers that I'm almost as painful to face in melee as at range is just priceless.)
@nitsua60 No, but the question rather exactingly demands that Sorc be a core part of the build. The Elemental Weapon + Elemental Affinity combo is literally the only way I could find to leverage Sorc in an Arcane Archer-ish way.
I still find it really cool that that build's Cha-to-damage comes online at exactly the same level as the Warlock's does.
(As a side note, builds which add 2 stats to the damage of an attack have become something of a pet project for me, so if anyone comes up with one I'd love to hear about it.)
@Adeptus then some deeper discussion here... [rummages more]
@Adeptus hmm... I must have e-mailed DForck the drive link to the spreadsheet. Here it is for anyone interested. It's a hideous beast, with bits and lumps added on in unseemly stages. Be warned: drive.google.com/file/d/0B9uH6592UvDcMUctb05Id3E3NXc/…
@diego If you're interested, a few messages back is linked a hideous spreadsheet looking at a half-dozen builds meant to maximize career-average longbow damage.
@Miniman Ah, so it's to make sure Sorc isn't just window-dressing, but rather a functioning contribution to the concept?
@nitsua60 I saw that, I don't super care about my damage output (I tend to do enough optimizing that even if I'm not top tier I'm at least baseline), but it is useful to have an idea of what I could do
I was thinking F5/R8, and if we go past that continue with Fighter for the last 7. (We are currently doing SKT and I don't know if we are continuing it when we are done or starting something new)
@nitsua60 Well, there's the Warlock with Dex/Str + Cha out of the box, that combo, which gets Dex/Str + Cha with some work. Then there's a bunch of variations on that combo, like Flame Arrows from EEPC. Then there's a bunch in the "almost, but not quite" box.
Int + Wis on cantrips, for example.
Which could be extended to Int + Wis + Cha on cantrips, but that's just silly.
Wait, no it couldn't (takes too many levels).
You could go for Cha + Wis on Eldritch Blast, though.
Wait, no, that doesn't work either.
Sorry, I haven't looked at this in a while.
The other big one is the Str/Dex + Cha + Cha on melee attacks, which I still don't know whether it works.
Oh yeah, there's also one in the "requires UA" box. Undying Light Warlock can add Cha to Sun Soul Monk's bolts.
@nitsua60 Not quite - potent cantrip only works for cleric cantrips, so you have to use Arcana Cleric. There's a few variations on that (Int + Cha, Wis + Cha) using Dragon Sorc.
@Miniman 'cause that would also need sorc 6, and (even if you could have the 24 levels) you'd be limited to evocation cantrips of the right damage type?
@nitsua60 I can't remember where, but someone pointed out that both of these "allow you to add your Cha modifier to the damage you deal with an attack". As an example, if 2 different things gave you a flying speed of 30 feet simultaneously, would your flying speed be 30 feet, or 60 feet?
Essentially, being allowed to do the same thing in 2 different ways doesn't necessarily mean you get to do it twice.
Also, as an aside, loose wording on the Undying Light Warlock means it can add Cha to anyone's damage if they use a Flame Tongue or a Sun Blade (and I'm sure there's more). But requiring specific magic items as well as UA is a bit much.
Well, the analogy isn't quite right, I believe. It's not "your damage is weapon dice + STR/DEX + CHA", which would mirror the speed-setting comparator.
Hello, rpg chat! Here is my problem: the group I'm DMing for won't go fight the vampire lord. They think he's too scary (vampires in 5e are supposed to be CR 13, party is level 6), so they carefully worked out a way to avoid him.
yeah, it's arguably pretty good play. but the vampire lord encounter was going to be fun -- a bit of roleplaying, a surprise attack, and then a fun game of hunt-the-coffin-before-the-vampire-revives
...um, here's what happened. The party interrupted a dark ritual intended to return a necromancer lord to unlife. The ritual has partially succeeded, and the ghost of the necromancer lord is now inhabiting the party's armor, which is horribly cursed and evil
the vampire lord was indirectly responsible for the ritual (he taught the cultists how to do the ritual), and he's sent the party a message saying "welcome back, my lord. please come visit me in my lair so we can discuss how I can help you kill and mind-control the mortals.
instead of talking to the necromancer, the party went and interrogated the cultists a bunch. if I'd been thinking, I would've declared that the cultists had no idea how to undo the ritual, and the only way to fix it would be to interrogate the vampire
but I wasn't thinking that far ahead, and now the party knows how to undo the ritual and they have no need to talk to the vampire
I'm tempted to just tell them: "hey guys, killing the vampire lord is meant to be a fun part of the adventure, want to think up a reason to go do that?"
Another possibility is that the vampire lord has a stake (pun intended) in seeing this necromancer return, and isn't just going to sit around and wait while the party gets rid of him.
Consider that, by not confronting him in his lair, they've made fighting him easier. But, by not being near the coffin, it's going to be hard to deal with him permanently. These consequences of their actions mean that their choice not to fight him was significant - you didn't just railroad them into fighting him anyway.
yeah... I mean, following the vampire to his coffin is still an interesting task, if not quite as interesting as playing hide-and-seek in the vampire's dungeon
Well, done right, the party could, on defeating him, end up chasing him back to where his minions carried away the coffin, then track the minions back to the lair, and so on and so forth.
On my blog, there's a print-and-play and a Tabletop Simulator mod versions. I've shared the link far and wide, facebook communities, G+ communities, BGG, twitter.
TTS has been wonderful for playtesting, so I had hoped someone would try it there, as it removes the first hurdle. There's currently 4 subscribers to the mod, 2 of which are me and a friend.
@Miniman Do give it a try if you get a chance, I'd love any feedback.
And yeah, it does use icons graciously provided by @BESW :D
interesting that it sort of apparently starts out as one of those "cooperative" board games, but eventually shifts into people vying for status as the winner
@Magician the weird thing about House on the Hill is, it kinda isn't cooperative either, in a sense, one person is fated to be against the party eventually, it's just that no one knows who until the second half starts
Speaking of AH, AH the card game is really good, with only one drawback: you have to keep buying new sets to get more scenarios. Each scenario has some replayability, and I guess once a full campaign is out there'll be some replayability in going through it with different characters, too. Still.
It's a lot more strategic. You get multiple actions a turn, and can do truly coop things like "I'll lure the monster to this location, then you can come in and fight it while I go do this other thing".
And while there's still a deck (different in each scenario) of Bad Things, it's a lot less unfair than AH can be.
@Miniman About 2 hours, though that's entirely up to the group. Most common end of the game is either losing, or deciding to evacuate. Also depends on how much arguing there'll be.
@ACuriousMind That'd be great! Can you please change it to something like "Passages & Plunder, a board game by Our Very Own @Magician (TM) is up for a public playtest."
@doppelgreener I see you're active in the boardgame chat, where I wandered wondering. Wondering if posting the link there would be an imposition. It's always weird, going into a community you're not a part of, to promote yourself.
