TRPG General Chat

nitsua60

12:11 AM

@Karelzarath So I've got basically all of salvatore, greenwood, and niles. Where would you go next?

Miniman

@nitsua60 Denning wrote a lot of stuff.

nitsua60

@Miniman Do you know if it's continuous, or one-offs? If I'm going to read mediocre S&S (which I assume of any FR/DL), I at least want the story to last thousands of pages =)

Miniman

Also Cunningham.

nitsua60

Elaine? I know that name. Wonder why.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Some of each, I think.

@nitsua60 Also, although it's been a long time, I recall the FR authors having a distinct negative correlation between prominence and quality.

nitsua60

12:21 AM

"Volume, man. We make it up on volume."

I think @SevenSidedDie needs some platinum-level-meta-badge for this comment. Not site-meta, just meta. Because he may just have answered a product-identification question with a question-identification comment.

Miniman

@nitsua60 On another topic, I'm curious what you thought of today's UA (if you looked at it).

nitsua60

12:45 AM

@Miniman not yet... [rummages]

Miniman

@nitsua60 I'm particularly interested in your old-school, grognard viewpoint on pacifist classes.

Especially since this is the second one we've seen.

Shalvenay

hey there @daze413

@Miniman -- mind telling me a thing or two about the two pacifist classes?

(kinda curious as to what themes they were shooting for)

Miniman

@Shalvenay One Monk subclass, one Paladin subclass.

Shalvenay

@Miniman ah, interesting

Miniman

Both have pacifist principles, but neither actually swears to them.

Which is just as well, because, as you'd expect from D&D, they both have stuff that makes them good at hurting people.

Karelzarath

12:49 AM

D&D IS about killing things and taking their stuff, after all.

Miniman

The Monk, in particular, is theoretically a healer. But one of his high-level features depends on letting his allies die.

trogdor

@Miniman I liked the 4E cleric pacifist build

though to be fair, the one silly thing about it is that it is expected to be run in a party full of other people who will hurt and kill people

but so is the way of D&D

Miniman

@trogdor It's, like, a dedicated healer, right?

Karelzarath

@nitsua60 I just unpacked all my adolescent books that my father shipped to me, which included a surprising number of FR novels. I'd be fairly hesitant to recommend any of them, though.

trogdor

@Miniman well, it will "attack" enemies

but all attacks are debilitating debuffs, with no damage attached

Miniman

12:51 AM

@trogdor Ah, the old "I'm a pacifist, I just make it easier for my buddies to kill stuff".

trogdor

yeaahh

but there is also like, extra healing I believe

Karelzarath

Pacifist in the sense of "I don't dirty my hands with such things"

trogdor

it's actually a really powerful build, one that I considered playing as, but someone else had already taken it in our group

and also, for half the campaign we needed as many people who could do decent damaging attacks as possible because of our Shaman/Warlord hybrid who granted attacks

Miniman

@Shalvenay Actually, now that I think about it, there's an interesting thing about them. The Monk subclass has a feature that totally eclipses the Paladin's Lay on Hands, and the Paladin subclass has a feature that totally eclipses everyone's (but especially the Monk's) Unarmored Defense.

trogdor

and for the other half too, but the reason at that point was that we had fewer people in the group by then

Miniman

12:54 AM

So there's a weird pattern of one-upmanship going on there.

NautArch

Testing new feature ideas?

trogdor

@Miniman lol, why can't they just make the classes who are supposed to do a thing the best at doing that thing?

Miniman

@NautArch More like "remade way more powerful" feature ideas :(

@trogdor Because, unlike 4e, there's no clear "this class is the best at this thing".

Or even "this class is good at this thing", really.

trogdor

hmm

Karelzarath

inb4 rogue subclass that's the best arcane caster

trogdor

12:56 AM

well, 4e, to be fair, had some issues with this stuff too

Miniman

@trogdor I'm not sure build versatility is an issue as such :P

trogdor

I could swear that outside of the pacifist healer tryhard build, the paladin build I made was better than cleric heals

NautArch

Every time I look at playing a UA class, I end up back to eying the diviner wizard.

trogdor

@Miniman well, fair yeah

daze413

The Monster Slayer UA is the game getting fed up with players reading the monster manual. "Here, just- just take it!"

Karelzarath

12:58 AM

heh

trogdor

but the thing is like, 4e tried to say that fighters and barbarians were better at charging than other classes, and that Minotaurs were the best race for it

but I figured out a pixie rogue build that was better at charging than anything else I could come up with

it would have literally one shot brutes on certain attacks, which seems like something you shouldn't be able to do

Shalvenay

@daze413 how've things been going?

Miniman

@NautArch Diviner is so cool. I still haven't played one (because Abjurer is so much stronger), but it's 100% awesome.

trogdor

(for non 4e people, brutes are the highest health enemies who are not meant to be "boss fights")

Miniman

@daze413 I actually really like the Monster Slayer! The Drunken Master is a cool concept which they've turned into a handful of extraordinarily bland features, and the Paladin is just stupid in all kinds of different directions. But the Monster Slayer makes a Ranger good at a lot of the stuff that Rangers should be good at.

trogdor

1:00 AM

I can only imagine that pixie just looking like a laser cutting an ogre in half

nitsua60

Okay, some unordered first thoughts:
I've got no inherent problem with pacifism in D&D. You should go into it fully realizing that you're playing *against* the system in a lot of ways, and I think it'd be a bit of a jerk-move to show up to a table with strangers and say "oh, by the way, I don't fight." (And I realize that's not exactly this paladin oath; just my thoughts on pacifism in general.) I think it's a fine player choice, preferably arising organically out of traumatic experience and with the full buy-in of the group, and the understanding that part of the game is now going to put t…

daze413

@Miniman It feels more a witcher than Matt Mercer's witch hunter.

@Shalvenay pretty good. Gonna run a siege of a bandit camp on the next game. Looking for inspiration.

nitsua60

@Karelzarath Even if I stipulate I'm not looking for good reading, just to broaden my knowledge of FR canon?

Shalvenay

@daze413 ah, what sort of bandits are we talking about here?

Miniman

@nitsua60 Yeah, I'm right there with you on reconciliation - "I hit him with a club so hard that I've got mind control on him" just feels weird.

trogdor

1:04 AM

lol

my issue with pacifism in D&D is that the game itself, and the community it has fostered, does not take the option seriously

daze413

@Shalvenay originally hired by the landlord to keep the people in line through violence, now that the land lord is dead, they enjoy terrorizing the people even more, since no one is there to keep them in line anymore. Now, the landlord's cousin takes over his holdings and decides to assault one of the camps. The bandits effectively stole a forge of spells (from LMOP) and are making a magical cannon (gunpowder exists in this game) with it.

nitsua60

@Miniman And what am I going to do with it? Like, between when the fight "ends" and the 1 minute ends. I could see 10 min, maybe, giving one the ability to get in somewhere and get out leaving a wake of charmed defenders rather than killing them....

trogdor

I don't object to the option, I object to how weak/wonky the option is

pacifism options in D&D tend, as far as I have personally seen them, to be either really viable mechanically, but not really be true pacifism in most senses of the word, or turn out to be a guy walking around with a bunch of Murderhobos and not getting any work done himself because they just kill everyone (and he can't seem to stop them)

Miniman

@daze413 I don't know anything about the witcher, sorry.

daze413

@Shalvenay I think I'll do that thing SSD answered where I list goals, obstacles and details .

Miniman

1:09 AM

@nitsua60 Plus, too, it's obviously built as a Dex paladin, but it's got this feature which requires a simple bludgeoning weapon, of which exactly none are finesse?

Shalvenay

@daze413 yeah

Miniman

Honestly, it just doesn't seem like something I'd ever actually use.

nitsua60

@Miniman Hadn't noticed that.... yeah, a strange bit of anti-synergy.

trogdor

@Miniman that does seem like a tiny bit of a wrinkle XD

daze413

1 level of monk can fix it. But still...

Miniman

1:11 AM

@nitsua60 My only guess is that they wanted it to be that way, because they think that somehow forces them to build around Str, thereby justifying the ridiculous Unarmored Defense they gave it.

nitsua60

@Miniman This might have made a three-level paladin dip worth it for my sharpshooter. Naked AC of 21 off of the best stat to pump anyway? I'd have given up 3 fighter levels for that, another fighting style, 15HP in laying hands, and 3 L1 slots (which would have more-than-mitigated the sacrifice of Magic Initiate to a lost ASI).

Miniman

I mean, why not just 10 + Dex + Cha, in line with every other instance of this ability? If they desperately want it to be better than the Monk, why not just allow shields? For that matter, for a tanky knight focussed on protecting others, why not allow shields in the first place?

nitsua60

@Miniman Right, since you're going to want to take protection (fighting style) thematically, anyway.

Miniman

@nitsua60 I was going to say don't forget Smite, but ranged, so nvm.

@nitsua60 The one consistent theme in UA is how inconsistent the quality is.

:(

I'm especially sad about the Drunken Master, since that's such a cool concept. And what did they give it? A free Disengage on a class that desperately wants to be in melee anyway.

But then, Monster Slayer is probably the best Ranger subclass (or Ranger UA in general, for that matter) yet.

nitsua60

Honestly, I just don't see the purpose of UA. But I suppose that's all

Jan 5 '16 at 14:25, by BESW

Generally the answer to "Why does this booming industry exist even though I don't care about it?" is "You're not the target demographic."

Miniman

1:18 AM

@nitsua60 Ah, yeah. I think we've talked about this before :)

NautArch

@miniman the Witcher books are decent

Miniman

@NautArch Hmmm, I might have to look into that. I first heard about the games, and they sounded completely uninteresting to me, so I sort of tuned out after that.

NautArch

My favorite thing about UA is it has the express caveat absolutely not balanced for multiclassing, but the target demographic often are multiclassers

Miniman

Yeah, that conflict comes to light an awful lot when people are talking about new UA.

NautArch

I started with Witcher 2 and got hooked on the theme. Haven't played any others but read the books that are available in English

daze413

1:25 AM

@NautArch I am fan of the game, without having actually played it. >_< I know it's just good

The book is also pretty good, I hear.

NautArch

I think there's three books in English. More if you know Polish.

Miniman

@daze413 o.O How does that work?

daze413

@Miniman I hear things, watch my brothers play it. It's awesome. And I enjoy watching them play. I like the stories and the interesting twists in fantasy tropes. It's just enjoyable. It works because I don't have the time and headspace to really get into it. Coz when I get into things, I really get into it.

Miniman

@daze413 My big turnoff is, like a lot of games these days, they go on about exploration/open-world/crafting/survival/etc elements.

Shalvenay

@Miniman i.e. not hack-and-slashy enough for you?

trogdor

1:29 AM

@daze413 this is actually the same reason I like the Witcher games too

my brother played them, and I sat behind him and watched

Miniman

@Shalvenay Everyone talks about them like they're a good thing, but for me it's like hearing "you will be expected to spend 75% of your time doing boring stuff that you don't really care about".

trogdor

I never touched the games myself

but I still like em

Miniman

It killed Dragon Age:Inquisition for me, and it looks awfully like it will have killed Mass Effect:Andromeda, too.

trogdor

@Miniman yeah, a lot of filler in them for sure

some people like that, some don't

I can go for some open world pick-stuff-up-and-craft, but if there is toooo much of that it does start to be a turn off

Miniman

@trogdor I dunno - is there anyone who likes quests along the lines of "go find 20 patches of herbs in random places around a large map"?

nitsua60

1:31 AM

Jan 5 '16 at 14:25, by BESW

Generally the answer to "Why does this booming industry exist even though I don't care about it?" is "You're not the target demographic."

=)

Miniman

I guess there must be, because that's where all of the series are going, but...

trogdor

@Miniman as a quest no, as a thing I "could" pick up for my own crafting? I can get into that

it may seem like a strange distinction, but that is just the way it is

daze413

@trogdor I hear my brother says there's too much to do in witcher, and is why he recommend me playing Horizon Zero Dawn, it's pretty great. No grind, so far.

or at least, doesnt feel like a grind

trogdor

if those herbs are things I can personally turn into potions rather than things I "need" to find for some stupid NPC, that makes a world of difference

Miniman

I mean, even Zelda's doing it now. Open-world gaming is slowly taking over, and I just don't understand why.

trogdor

1:33 AM

@Miniman ugh, that is a direction I don't like quite so much in Zelda

but there are worse things in that game than the open world sillyness

daze413

@trogdor FFXV suffers from this :/ at least the quests are optional though

Miniman

@trogdor I haven't played it yet - I'll consider forking over $500 for a console once there's more than one game for it.

trogdor

and yet every reviewer is giving it glowing ratings, seemingly just because it is a "different Zelda game"

@Miniman yeah there is also that huge investment

Miniman

(With that said, the Switch is the most attractive console I've seen in a very long time.)

trogdor

@Miniman I would like it more if they didn't like, drive up artificial scarsity for it

daze413

1:35 AM

for the switch right? Reviews say it's weird, the placing of the buttons are wrong and hurts after a while >_<

Miniman

Once there's a decent range of games for it, and hopefully the price has dropped a bit, I'll almost certainly get one.

@daze413 That makes sense - Nintendo has definitely lost sight of good controller design in recent years.

trogdor

I have actually heard some decent things about Mass Effect Andromeda gameplay wise though

Miniman

@trogdor I mean, there's definitely some stuff I like about it.

trogdor

like, I realize a lot of people are hating on it right now, but from what I hear that hate mostly comes from wonky character creation and weird looking faces

Miniman

But, above all else, this no-save bull**** needs to be fixed.

trogdor

1:37 AM

which isn't a huge deal to me, and could also be fixed, possibly easily

@Miniman there is no saving in it? that seems like a bit of an issue XD

daze413

you have to finish it in one sitting

Miniman

@trogdor There is an auto-save only. And, somehow, the auto-save has gone enormously backwards compared to previous games.

My first death lost me about an hour of playtime.

nitsua60

@Miniman I know. Gods, I hate Mario!

[looks around] that's not what we're talking about?

=)

trogdor

lol

burn the sheep! burn the sheep!

Miniman

Yeah, I know I sound like a spoiled, new generation gamer. But just trust me, this game is enormously disrespectful of your time.

nitsua60

1:39 AM

@trogdor [looks around sheepishly]

trogdor

@Miniman no no, honestly, if saving is that borked, I fully agree with you

that is a huge issue that would result in me never picking this game up

nitsua60

@Miniman No--I'm just laughing at how absolutely ignorant I am of the last 25 years' game developments.

trogdor

I feel like it isn't an irresponsible childish thing to want to not have to re-do progress in a game

we all only have so much free time after all

kids would most likely have more free time than us, in fact

Miniman

@trogdor I suspect the auto-save doesn't really function because it's open-world. In previous games, it basically saved after every fight, which was probably pretty easy to implement, since the game would know exactly when you were between fights.

So yeah, they need to get a quicksave in, stat.

trogdor

@Miniman but like, we were talking about the Witcher before, as I recall, aaaaany progress in that game gets a small auto-save

daze413

1:42 AM

wait, do tags from other SE sites work?

trogdor

it is by no means impossible to auto-save regularly enough in an open world game

daze413

ah no...

Miniman

@trogdor Yeah, there's no denying that this is a solved problem. I'm just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and hope that the reason they didn't implement a solution was because it's a new problem to them.

trogdor

@Miniman I would hope that is the only reason too

but like, maybe they should have learned by now that most gamers would like to be able to hard save their progress manually, and that if Autosaves happen that maybe they should be like,... a little common

more so, in fact, if there is no hard saving

daze413

Dark Souls. Is auto-saved but you still effectively "lose" play time when you die coz you have to go back to a bonfire. But you dont feel like you lost it. Or it isnt that punishing. I appreciate that about DS

trogdor

1:46 AM

I don't want to assume that they were not blindsided by this issue, but I also don't want to pretend this is like, the first game they have ever made that could have taught them that saving is probably an important thing in games with progress that can be made

nitsua60

@trogdor TBF, "games with progress that can be made" is a pretty-niche market.

=)

Miniman

@daze413 Yeah, but in Dark Souls it's part of the game. If they had gone for a "you have to do the whole mission in one go without dying" thing, I would understand. I wouldn't necessarily be happy about it, but I would understand.

daze413

Also, I am done statting the other deadly boss encounter for 5e. If anyone else wants to join in the playtest, feel free to make a 6th level character, using 30-point buy and additional ability score: sanity. Everything is allowed except UA.

trogdor

@nitsua60 lol

Miniman

@daze413 Assuming you're looking around the same time, I'll upgrade my characters from last time and be good to go.

trogdor

1:58 AM

there "are" games in which progress cannot be made, I just felt the distinction was necessary

daze413

@nitsua60 @Miniman I hope you can join? :D are you free march 28 (tomorrow, 29, for me) at around the same time we usually play?

ok great, I'm really concerned about the mechanic I'm implementing. It involves "spawning" creatures and then forcing opportunity attacks on the players, as the primary way to deal damage.

trogdor

on a really basic level, stuff like solitaire don't seem like they need a save function (though I will point out that at least some versions of it actually save your current game XD)

nitsua60

@daze413 Tomorrow morning (my time) is tough for me--I probably can't make it happen. Two days later would work for me, but my morning schedule's a little strange the next two days.

daze413

@nitsua60 ah, that's fine. If you can't make it, I'd hate to strain miniman by making him play all 4 PCs (and possibly talking to himself) so let's reschedule to 3 days from now.

nitsua60

@daze413 so... roughly 56 hours from right now?

daze413

2:05 AM

@nitsua60 ugh... time math is hard... sec

Miniman

@nitsua60 I think you want another 24 hours on that?

nitsua60

@Miniman I think I might switch in a Moon Druid 3/Oath of Redemption Paladin 3 so I can have an AC of 900 while wild-shaped =)

Miniman

(I used an online time calculator, of course.)

> Everything is allowed except UA.

:P

daze413

@nitsua60 March 30, 2017. at 10 AM UTC

did I getted the time math right?

nitsua60

@daze413 Yes--that's what I understood.

daze413

2:08 AM

@nitsua60 Miniman made sense that we shouldnt playtest UA if we're playtesting an encounter. Sorry

nitsua60

(I was just kidding. Badly.)

(So I'll stick to Mercer's Gunslinger as a Fallen Asimar; I'm going for The Crow.)

(also kidding)

daze413

@nitsua60 you mean the OP fighter archetype? or does he have another gunslinger homebrew class?

nitsua60

I don't know--I've never looked at either. I'm just yanking your chain =)

@Miniman are you going to play the same chars? I'm thinking I'd like to switch up a bit.

Miniman

@daze413 Ah, I guess I misunderstood then. That's going to be an issue for me - I have an IRL game at that time :P

nitsua60

Next day also works for me.

Miniman

2:11 AM

@nitsua60 I was thinking about changing them up - it'll depend on whether I have time. I just moved house, so all my stuff is buried in boxes.

The Paladin, in particular, is problematic, because he's (unintentionally, I swear) a perfect boss-killer.

nitsua60

@Miniman Well, he's really built for nova/1-on-1.

As a class, I mean.

What if we did OSR: dial up a fighter, a cleric, a m-u, and a thief?

daze413

@nitsua60 if you are going to switch, can we have equal ratio of ranged and melee?

Miniman

@nitsua60 I can get behind that! And if the thief is ranged, that should work with ^^

daze413

@nitsua60 Let's do next next day, have a party to attend on the 31st

Miniman

@daze413 So, 1/4/2017, 10:00 am UTC?

nitsua60

2:16 AM

@Miniman We could also go with an old-school race-mix:

(I've got dibs on the dopey half-orc in the back!)

Miniman

@nitsua60 Dwarf Cleric, Elf M-U, Halfling Rogue, Half-Orc Fighter?

daze413

@Miniman yep. 4/1/17. hehehe

nitsua60

@Miniman Boom. Done.

Miniman

@daze413 Ok, that should work for me.

nitsua60

@daze413 Yeah, that works for me.

daze413

2:18 AM

wait... wait...

4/1/17 10 AM is 4/1/17 6 PM for me. dang brain fart

can we do 4/2/17?

sorry :/ 4/1 is my grandma's birthday :)

Shalvenay

@Miniman no...Dwarf M-U, Halfling Fighter, Half-Orc Rogue, Elf Cleric ;)

Miniman

@Shalvenay @.@

@daze413 Works for me!

nitsua60

@daze413 yup.

daze413

@Shalvenay 2/4 of those are actually ok

Miniman

@daze413 Certainly, all of them can be made to work.

Half-Orc synergizes well with Assassin Rogue, actually.

nitsua60

2:22 AM

@Miniman Do you have a preference among them?

Miniman

@nitsua60 Well, I already have a very standard Dwarf Cleric, so might as well use that one.

After that, not overly.

I probably wouldn't sign up for Fighter or Rogue for a full campaign, but I'm kinda interested to try them out.

nitsua60

So I'll take the H-O ftr, then, and the ranged threats...

1d4

Dice Service

1

nitsua60

I take the elf, you've got the halfling?

Miniman

Cool, works for me!

trogdor

2:26 AM

@nitsua60 lol

nitsua60

@trogdor (did you see how I massaged that character selection to get exactly what I wanted?)

trogdor

the elf?

Miniman

@trogdor Nah, he was after the half-orc.

trogdor

oh

Miniman

13 mins ago, by nitsua60

(I've got dibs on the dopey half-orc in the back!)

nitsua60

2:30 AM

@trogdor You should see me in a v-neck.

trogdor

@Miniman I saw that but then he said he would take the elf

so I is confuze

Miniman

I've, at this point, played 2 different wizards as well as DMed for 2 different wizards. It's still my favourite class, and there's still some things I want to try with it, but I'm definitely happy to try something else.

@trogdor Ah, yeah, but before he even rolled the die he claimed the half-orc with exaggerated nonchalance.

trogdor

lol

Miniman

@nitsua60 Fair warning, though, I'm gonna dip my halfling in some fighting style secret sauce.

nitsua60

A fighter dip to grab archery?

Miniman

2:34 AM

@nitsua60 Yeah - for a class that's so dependent on landing one attack per round, that +2 is too hard to ignore.

I think Rg 5/Ftr 1 still counts for our purposes, anyway.

nitsua60

@Miniman That's why my preferred rogue is Ro1/Ftr5 =)

Miniman

@nitsua60 That's not a Rogue. That's a Ranger :P

(Or at least, it's one of the many concepts that's covered under the vast and ambiguous Ranger Umbrella.)

nitsua60

Pondering a crit-fishing H-O Champion, perhaps Lucky? Greataxe and GWF?

@Miniman ayup =)

Too bad faerie fire's off the table.

Although I like battle master so much....

Miniman

@nitsua60 GWF is even more underwhelming on a Greataxe than it is on a Greatsword, though.

I'd think about Defense Fighting Style, personally.

nitsua60

@Miniman Yeah, but it's a bigger die to double-up on if the H-O crit feature triggers =)

Miniman

2:42 AM

@nitsua60 XD

nitsua60

(Basically, it's the poor man's way to nova like a paladin.)

NautArch

@nitsua60 but 2 do

2 die > 1

nitsua60

??

Miniman

Have to think about Rogue archetypes, too. Thief, Assassin, Arcane Trickster, Swashbuckler, Mastermind...

NautArch

Rolling 2 dice vs 1

Great axe vs greatsword

nitsua60

2:45 AM

@NautArch yeah, but for a half-orc on a crit it brings greatsword from 2d6->5d6, vs. greataxe from 1d12->3d12.

7->17.5 < 6.5->19.5

(15% of the time)

daze413

@Miniman scratch Assassin, you're not going to get use of the surprise attack

nitsua60

=)

@daze413 be careful: scratch an assassin and poison comes out

Miniman

@daze413 I thought that, but I'm AFB right now - don't they also have something that works if their target hasn't acted yet?

nitsua60

advantage, which implies SA

Miniman

Hmmm.

nitsua60

2:49 AM

(in the combat, not the round)

Miniman

Thief doesn't really help, Swashbuckler only adds Cha to initiative, I don't even remember what Mastermind does.

@nitsua60 Yeah, I know.

daze413

@Miniman not much at 6th-level. just the surprise attack, really

NautArch

@nitsua60 oooh. Missed the half orc bit. Yeah, Great axe :)

Er... What time is this game and is there another spot open? :)

Miniman

As always, Arcane Trickster comes out looking shiny because everything it has to compete with is a bit lackluster.

daze413

@Miniman Mastermind gives a ranged Help action (30 feet) as a bonus action

nitsua60

2:51 AM

@NautArch if GWF it's not clear to me that the greataxe is actually better; the better pickup from GWF+Gsword I suspect will outweigh the +2 dmg on a crit from H-O+Gaxe. But it's in his idiom...

Miniman

@NautArch 4/2/2017 10am UTC.

nitsua60

@NautArch And I know I'd gladly play only one char if @daze413 wants to hold it at 4 PCs.

daze413

@NautArch April 2, 2017 at 10AM UTC. And yes, there is a spot open if you dont mind playing only 1 PC. We'll try 5 PCs for this one. If it's tough for 5 PCs, it'll be deadly for 4

Miniman

@daze413 Hmmm, not bad at all if @nitsua60 is going for a crit-fishing build.

nitsua60

(It's just a playtest of one encounter, I believe.)

@Miniman at the cost of your bonus Hide, though. Giving yourself advantage -> SA seems so much more reliable?

Miniman

2:54 AM

@nitsua60 The whole Hide every round thing is very...iffy. Also, remember that as long as you stand next to the guy, I get my SA anyway.

nitsua60

@Miniman true. On both counts.

Miniman

@nitsua60 Plus, I get to yell "Sic 'im, Stog!", and what could be more important than that?

NautArch

@daze413 damn, that's a bit early for me.

daze413

If another one joins, we can go back to 4

@NautArch what's a good time for you on that date?

nitsua60

I tend to be pretty liberal about allowing it, because without it I feel bad for the rogue in combat. Also, my first 5e GM did.

@daze413 It's pretty early for me, too (6am). I'm willing to do it, but wouldn't mind pushing an hour =)

Miniman

2:57 AM

@nitsua60 Yeah, me too. As a GM, I absolutely support it. As a player, I think it's iffy and wouldn't want to rely on it.

@nitsua60 For reasons not worth going into (my circumstances have changed a bit lately), pushing it back a bit is also nice for me.

daze413

@nitsua60 @Miniman Are you ok if we start an hour or two later?

Miniman

@daze413 Absolutely!

NautArch

@daze413 crap, didn't realize the day. Just getting back from a trip :( family time for me.

Shalvenay

@daze413 -- it'd be pushing it a bit, but I might be able to make your game especially if it's pushed back an hour or two

BESW

> Turn it off and back on again. Given time and tools you can completely remove one physical consequence from a flesh and blood target without the usual overcome roll or time delay, but all mortal witnesses (including the target if conscious, but excluding yourself) must take a mental consequence of at least the same severity.

Shalvenay

3:05 AM

what level do you want the PCs to be at for this game @daze413?

daze413

@Shalvenay what time is good for you at that day? level 6 pls, no UA. 30 point buy with sanity score

Shalvenay

@daze413 tends to be variable...1200 UTC would be a bit of a push, 1300-1400UTC would be more likely

daze413

@Shalvenay that'd make it 9PM for me, im actually even more available at that time >_<. @nitsua60 @Miniman does this sound ok?

BESW

(I think the TF2 Medic probably has that stunt, too.)

Miniman

@daze413 Yep - it's getting into a pretty late night, but no more than usual if I was being honest with myself :)

BESW

3:10 AM

@BESW cc @Magician re: Sunless Fate.

nitsua60

@daze413 1300 UTC is getting to a hard end-time for me. Gotta get the kids ready and head out to mass, then the rest of the day's out.

(I.e. I'd need to end by 1300, not that a session that started at 1300 is the latest I could start.)

daze413

@Shalvenay are you alirght with monday, instead? @Miniman @nitsua60

Shalvenay

@daze413 sadly, nope

has a railroad to go work on at that time on weekdays

daze413

@Shalvenay your GM must be pretty harsh heh

Miniman

@daze413 It's fine for me.

@daze413 Also, are we this Vaarsuivius or this Vaarsuvius?

nitsua60

3:16 AM

I can do the 1000-1100 UTC hour most days. Then it's a play-blackout until about 0100-0400 UTC, which tends to be open about 50% of days.

Shalvenay

@daze413 hah :P I get to deal with the complicated spots, where the tracks run everywhichaway

daze413

@Shalvenay oh, an actual railroad. Didnt see that coming

get up earlier @Shalvenay, so we can play at 12NN UTC

trogdor

@BESW nice

Shalvenay

@daze413 I'll consider it (especially considering I have nitsua's game the prior night...) but a lot of it will depend on how much sleep I get this week :p

nitsua60

@Shalvenay I have to end a touch earlier... that got pretty late for me last time. (Too much fun being had... didn't want to sign off... players all well west of me!)

Shalvenay

3:20 AM

@nitsua60 haha, true

daze413

@Miniman we'll say you have all the spell slots lol

Miniman

@daze413 Cool!

daze413

It's meant to be a random eldritch altar encounter, not a final boss of some sort

+ no paladin, so no fear of OTKs

Shalvenay

@daze413 OTKs?

Miniman

@Shalvenay One Turn Kills.

Shalvenay

3:26 AM

ah

something I'm remarkably bad at with Jherala -- probably because I tend to be fairly reserved about going for a big ability spike in general :P but I suppose it works out in the end

daze413

ok so just to be clear, we're still on for 4/2/17 11 AM UTC now? @Shalvenay may or may not join?

or was it 12 UTC now?

Miniman

@daze413 I am, at least.

Shalvenay

@daze413 sounds right.

daze413

sorry off-topic

KorvinStarmast

4:12 AM

@nitsua60 Just wanted to say that your reply in re the rat race was ... awesome.

Shalvenay

hey there @KorvinStarmast, how're things going?

KorvinStarmast

Things are well, I cooked Italian tonight. Awesome recipe I got on line. The Missus was most pleased.

cafedelites.com/2016/05/19/sun-dried-tomato-parmesan-chicken

Shalvenay

nice. things have been fairly interesting over here

KorvinStarmast

@Shalvenay I have great hopes that our D&D group is getting started again, and I may get to play the Drunken Master Monk. Sent it to DM for approval/disapproval ... hoping he says yes.

Shalvenay

(the NTSB's last update on the runway overrun in Michigan has me scratching my head wondering "how in the world do you preflight that? Borrowing the de-ice truck?"

KorvinStarmast

4:16 AM

@Shalvenay Which airline?

Miniman

@KorvinStarmast Well, there's hardly any reason for him to say no - its features aren't what you'd call powerful.

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast nice. my 1e game sadly got called off due to the DM having to work, but I'm in Nitsua's 5e short form, and have another short form 5e game lined up after that

@KorvinStarmast Ameristar Air Cargo (it was a charter flight)

KorvinStarmast

@Miniman Our group mostly prefers published ... we have all been bitten by the third party and "not ready for prime time: stuff before.

@Shalvenay I'll need to look that one up tomorrow. Sounds interesting. Any fatalities?

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast the problem was the plane was a MD-83, and one of the elevators had jammed due to mechanical damage while the plane was on the ground. thing is, with the MD-80 servo tab controls, the pilots couldn't tell just by moving the controls around that they had a problem as the tab still moved fine

@KorvinStarmast nope, everyone walked away

Miniman

@KorvinStarmast That's understandable. I told my group right from the outset that they could use anything from UA, but I've reconsidered that policy a lot lately. Luckily, none of my players have ever actually wanted to use any UA material - it's possible they don't care about this stuff as much as I do :)

KorvinStarmast

4:18 AM

@Shalvenay Ah, that one, there's a thread on PPRuNe, I'll have another look.

Shalvenay

avherald.com/h?article=4a5ecf6a&opt=0

KorvinStarmast

@Miniman UA stuff is hit or miss, with their efforts on the Ranger appreciated, but not always "on" .. and Mystic still has a ways to go.

@Shalvenay What's short form?

Miniman

@KorvinStarmast Aye. I actually think this most recent one is their best Ranger material yet, so there's hope!

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast re: short form -- think "elongated one shot"

KorvinStarmast

@Miniman I like it; I am annoyed by the initial response of some of the GiTP crew. FFS, some folks aren't happy with anything.

Miniman

4:22 AM

@KorvinStarmast Yeah, I've been reading their UA reaction threads, and noticing a few familiar names (including yours).

KorvinStarmast

@Miniman The Redeemer/Pacifist Paladin has great potential ... but only at certain tables.

@Miniman Anyone who posts the term "broken" with a 5e test effort usually gets my "is an idiot" label, mentally. Then again, Lore master was tending toward OP.

Miniman

@KorvinStarmast It's an interesting one, that's for sure. Contentious concept aside, I do think that is has some problems.

KorvinStarmast

@miniman If you get an RP heavy group, IMO, that Redeemer has some promise, probably still needs some tweeking.

Miniman

@KorvinStarmast Well, "broken" is sometimes appropriate - it just doesn't mean the same thing as "overpowered". I'd argue, for example, that the Kensai was broken.

KorvinStarmast

@Miniman Kensai made, to me, no sense.

daze413

4:26 AM

@KorvinStarmast looks goood

KorvinStarmast

@daze413 What, the recipe? :)

Miniman

@KorvinStarmast Not just you - it confused most people who I saw talking about it. Hence why I consider it broken - it's not about power levels, just mechanics that don't make sense or work properly.

Shalvenay

@KorvinStarmast "broken" is reserved for things of a nature of the 3.5e Truenamer

daze413

@KorvinStarmast yeah.

Shalvenay

as in "this class should have an INOP placard slapped on it"

KorvinStarmast

4:28 AM

@Miniman Well, I think that's part of the UA thing. Run it up the flagpole, see who salutes it. Some days, no salutes. .

On that happy note, this old fart is giong to bet. Work tomorrow. Happy gaming!

Miniman

@KorvinStarmast Cya!

Adeptus

"Broken" is a bit ambiguous. Could mean extremely overpowered or underpowered, or could mean "has new mechanics that just don't work/make sense"

nitsua60

11:30 AM

@KorvinStarmast Thanks! It was an interesting little side-project for a while.

Patta

11:52 AM

@nitsua60 I admire your durability (Well, that is certainly not the word I am looking for, but I'm going with it anyway...) with that :D

(And yea, I kinda gave up there. Normally, I only have that problem the other way around: I know the english word, but not the german one...)

BESW

Hmm. I just ran across a short review of A Penny For My Thoughts which claimed that there's no roleplaying between players in the game.

@Patta "Endurance"?

Patta

@BESW Yes, that is what I was looking for, thanks. Ill let it stand for comedic effect, I guess, even if it is a small one :D

BESW

I have a lot of practice guessing what word somebody meant; it's actually a lot easier when the person doesn't have aphasia.

I wonder if there's any creator-facilitated play records of APFMT.

'cause I know I read it very differently from some of the people I played it with.

I consider the main text of the manual to be a diegetic, ergodic text, and gameplay to be a kind of low-key LARP. Otherwise the eponymous phrase and accompanying ritual is frivolous and pointless.

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