TRPG General Chat

GMNoob

14:00

@kviiri Jump to safety or jump to weapons, is a very different thing than "destroy something valuable" or "waste time"

course, I would always choose waste time, cause the consequences will never be known, but its a random example.

kviiri

@GMNoob Yes it does, IMO.

doppelgreener

We have learned a thing 5e does well \o/ This is good and enlightening

lisardggY

@kviiri I think you captured the game perfectly.

GMNoob

@JonathanHobbs What?

lisardggY

@GMNoob "Something bad/unexpected to the character" doesn't necessarily mean "something I, the player, doesn't like".

Magician

14:02

@GMNoob Destroy something valuable while defeating goblins. Success at a cost. Could as well have been offered as the only outcome, both are options within the rules.

doppelgreener

@GMNoob The thing BESW points out.

also \o/ is a cheering guy with his hands over his head

kviiri

@GMNoob I think the player should be in charge of what their characters do, and if the character has to make an ugly decision, it's up to the player. The player should not be in charge of ugly decisions of OTHER characters than their own.

GMNoob

@kviiri Ok, you aren't understanding what I don't like. I find it torteruous to be given two bad options to choose from. I find it fun to react to bad stuff happening.

Magician

@JonathanHobbs Benign tyranny of the GM?

doppelgreener

This is also a totally sincere comment. It is good to be able to learn what people get out of various mechanics, or what they enjoy in games, or so on.

BESW

14:03

@JonathanHobbs You mean, it sounds like 5e is good at giving the GM just enough tools, and plenty of authority, to run reactionary storytelling?

GMNoob

Jump to safety or jumping to weapons are not two bad options to choose from.

kviiri

@GMNoob I can kinda see your point, but usually it's not two bad things, it's two tradeoffs. You still get to advance something in a favorable direction - but you choose what, and at what cost.

doppelgreener

@Magician Almost more like: benevolent tyranny.

BESW

(IE, characters and/or players which react to what the GM places in front of them, and trust him to do so well and engagingly.)

doppelgreener

@BESW Yes, that too

GMNoob

14:05

@Magician There's no tyranny about it.

kviiri

@GMNoob gotta go now, thanks for the chat :)

Same to everyone else [wave]

BESW

@kviiri ttfn

GMNoob

@kviiri the cost bothers me

Magician

Cya!

GMNoob

@kviiri have fun

wax eagle

14:06

@EtiennevanDelden welcome to chat!

bit of a madhouse as we're all still digesting the 5e release

BESW

@GMNoob Well, take Fate for example. If you succeed on the roll, you get the success. But if you fail the roll, you can choose to fail or to succeed... at a cost.

GMNoob

@BESW Yes, I dislike those choices

doppelgreener

@GMNoob Tyranny isn't 100% negative. In a sense: "arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power." It's oppressive in human government terms, hence its negative connotations. In an RPG, a DM being tyrannical is not a bad thing: they have total arbitrary power, and that works to good effect.

GMNoob

if I fail, I fail. I'd prefer the system where the next player decides what the failure means.

BESW

@GMNoob [shrug] I prefer it to the binary pass/fail of most d20 System games.

GMNoob

14:07

@JonathanHobbs I understand that. But there is no tyranny

BESW

It places a meaningful choice in the player's hands: what are you willing to risk or sacrifice in order to achieve this end?

GMNoob

The DM does NOT have total arbitrary power.

@BESW I understand, that sounds like the opposite of fun to me. I can't explain why.

BESW

@GMNoob Fair enough. Just please be open to the fact that many people feel oppositely.

doppelgreener

@GMNoob Typically in D&D games the DM does have total arbitrary power though; it comes with the DM role. I'm not saying it's a bad thing at all!

GMNoob

@JonathanHobbs The only tyrant in games that I enjoy are the Dice when not being fudged by people who prefer a different outcome.

doppelgreener

14:09

For the record, also, I am happy about learning this stuff because I do game design. This is education for me that I'm enjoying.

BESW

Truth rises from the clash of differing opinions, so it's actually good that we all prefer different playstyles.

GMNoob

@JonathanHobbs Typically in D&D games, the DM is subject to the rules of the world and the dice, and the player's enjoyment.

doppelgreener

@GMNoob Oh, yeah. The tyranny here is the power the DM has over setting the stage, what's in it, what the actors in it are doing, etc. In reactionary storytelling, the DM is making a lot of things happen, and leaving room for the players to act in response.

GMNoob

When I DM D&D I don't need a mechanic to see the look of dissapointment on my friend's face when he hears me prep up for some devestating effect, and so I weaken it a bit.

doppelgreener

This is absolute power of the GM, but being used to good effect. Good tyranny!

GMNoob

14:11

@JonathanHobbs That power lies in the hands of the author of the module we are using.

doppelgreener

Though i suppose if we can get too caught up in the 'unjust' sense of being a tyrant, we should seek a better word.

BESW

@GMNoob That's the same smell, once removed.

doppelgreener

Yeah, more or less.

GMNoob

@BESW No, it's objective

Joshua Aslan Smith

@GMnoob I thought you were talking about how spells had components like a drop of sap, or the dried ashses of a a long dead fire, or the blood of a small animal etc.

BESW

14:12

Trust the GM, trust the module author, either way your gameplay is defined as reactions to challenges and obstacles a person is placing in your way.

Magician

@JonathanHobbs Just like any tyranny, it can be unjust.

GMNoob

@JoshuaAslanSmith Ah no.. this new player asked how a wizard walks through walls, and was surprised when the person explaining the rules said you need a special level X spell.

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith beware 5e components with a cost, there are some things that shouldn't be cast componentless

(for balance!)

GMNoob

@BESW Trust has nothing to do with it.

doppelgreener

You're getting off track

The GM's channelling the author's work, naturally, but there's just a person saying a thing is happening.

wax eagle

14:14

then again when 5e designers talk about balance, I sort of picture them with a seesaw, and they're trying to get 20 people seated and not having any luck

doppelgreener

That is the matter at hand here

GMNoob

You are setting up some dynamic that just does not exist when we play D&D. The DM arbitrates the rules, and plays the environment. They are not a tyrant of the game. The environment could be created in any particular way. It could be the GM it could be a third party author, it could be one of the players who wrote a module.

doppelgreener

I think we might be getting too bogged down in this tyrant word choice thing

would it help if we referred to the GM as the Benevolent Game Realm God Who Doth Shine Down Upon Us With Plotte

GMNoob

No

doppelgreener

very well

I'll stick with that anyway

Whetherre Sourced Fromme Manualls Or Imaginations Abundanttt

Magician

14:16

@JonathanHobbs Seconded.

GMNoob

A Judge is a judge, they do not make the rules, or the case.

A DM is mostly a judge.

doppelgreener

Hooooooooo boy wow no

They run the story, they can't simply be a judge and do that

they're creative folk, pushin' things along

Anyway, I'm gonna go to sleep, I have enough to think on

Goodnight!

GMNoob

When I DM, I am mostly a judge.

Magician

G'night!

GMNoob

The module does the story pushing for me.

Joshua Aslan Smith

14:19

@waxeagle which I understand but given how light the rules were on items and availability of such things I pretty much hand waved it away for the short adventure dungeon crawl I was running

wax eagle

totally legit, wizards should pretty much always have the components for spells in those cases

Joshua Aslan Smith

right

it brings in a rub

GMNoob

@JoshuaAslanSmith Components can be handwaved away, thats what arcane focus is for

those that can't are given an exact GP price

Joshua Aslan Smith

components are requirements to cast, spell focus just lets you get your prof bonus

GMNoob

either a component pouch or arcane focus gives you all the required compontents you need, unless an extra gp price is provided next to the component

wax eagle

14:22

@JoshuaAslanSmith arcane focus replaces to components (it's equivalent to component pouch)

GMNoob

@JoshuaAslanSmith That's the playtest

wax eagle

@GMNoob same in Basic

Joshua Aslan Smith

gotcha

GMNoob

@waxeagle all wizards get their prof bonus regardless of arcane implement

Etienne van Delden

@waxeagle Thanks for the welcome!
5E is very interesting, so I understand the madhouse ^^

wax eagle

14:23

@GMNoob sorry, I was referring to the spell component bit being the same

BESW

@EtiennevanDelden [wave] Glad to have ya.

wax eagle

@EtiennevanDelden so you're 4e combats are really going 30 rounds?

GMNoob

30 rounds??

wax eagle

@GMNoob that's what I said!

GMNoob

30 turns maybe?

6 players?

hope

**hopes

/me hopes

wax eagle

14:25

yeah, that's what I was hoping. If can we help with some optimization perhaps

Etienne van Delden

Yeah, 30 rounds

wax eagle

@EtiennevanDelden whats your party look like?

Etienne van Delden

There are rounds where none of the PC's hit

wax eagle

@EtiennevanDelden yeah, we've gotta fix that :)

GMNoob

@EtiennevanDelden Do they lack magic items or darksun stat boosts?

Etienne van Delden

14:26

Dragon Magazine Assassin; Paladin; Bard, Fighter/Warlord hybrid. And the occasional mage.

They are missing DarkSun stat boosts

I AM using MM3 math for monsters btw :D

Joshua Aslan Smith

do they have magic items though?

wax eagle

@EtiennevanDelden do they all have +1 or +2 magic weaons/implements?

Joshua Aslan Smith

is this a question related thing?

Etienne van Delden

Most have got +3 magic weapons/implement

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/42147/how-to-speed-up-4e-combat sorry wrong link

@EtiennevanDelden expertise feats?, attack stats at 20-22?

cursed d20s?

Joshua Aslan Smith

14:28

yeah thats my next question right there

wax eagle

are you adding the 1/2 level attack bonus

Joshua Aslan Smith

are they piling on flanking and or charge to hit bonuses

BESW

Most common reason nobody's hitting in 4e: forgetting to add 1/2 level to attack modifiers.

wax eagle

(are you using the character builder?)

Magician

A write-up of an at-will attack power would be useful, rather than all this guessing.

wax eagle

14:28

@Magician yes

Etienne van Delden

@waxeagle The players have expertise feats. They are adding 1/2 level attack bonus (last I checked..) They're not avid flankers

Joshua Aslan Smith

@magician DAMN YOUR LOGIC

Etienne van Delden

1 player with cursed d20s.

wax eagle

@EtiennevanDelden can we see, say the Assassin's at will block?

or the fighter's

Etienne van Delden

They're not using CB, sorry

Joshua Aslan Smith

14:30

I mean he's playing an original shroud assassin vs assassin executioner so yeah........

wax eagle

@EtiennevanDelden that's fine, it's not mandatory (just super helpful)

@JoshuaAslanSmith Dragon assassin is the exe

Joshua Aslan Smith

oh okay

I thought that was in the essentials books for some reason

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith it's HOS but it was first intro'd in Dragon

Joshua Aslan Smith

then right on, which build of the Executioner is the player using?

GMNoob

it's also an essentials char

Etienne van Delden

14:31

He's not using the Executioner, but the old school Assassin. Weren't they both in Dragon magazine? Sorry for the confusion

Joshua Aslan Smith

btw I was just thinking yesterday how spell casting in 5e is defined has having spoken or thought or hand commands to fire off that the melee executioner would be quite powerful as an anti-mage character

wax eagle

@EtiennevanDelden ah no, old assassin was the PHB3 version. Ok so that's one potential source

Joshua Aslan Smith

basically original assassin is very very meh

wax eagle

but that alone should be 30 rounds.

Do you happen to have their character sheets handy?

Etienne van Delden

Not at the moment. That would have helped, wouldn't it (A)

wax eagle

14:34

@EtiennevanDelden you don't happen to remember the Fighter's attack/damage numbers right off the top of your head do you?

Etienne van Delden

I was thinking for going for halving the monsters HP, but upping the damage output slightly

Magician

@JoshuaAslanSmith My logic is impeccable, for I am the Dispensary of Justice, Ruler of All the Character Sheets on Which My Shadow Falls, In My Right Arm is the d20 of Ire, In My Left the d20 of Mercy.

2

wax eagle

@EtiennevanDelden that will speed it up, but there is something off that should be addressed

Etienne van Delden

From the top of my head, +9/+6

wax eagle

@EtiennevanDelden proficiency!

or low stats

Joshua Aslan Smith

14:35

what lvl is the party?

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith 8

Joshua Aslan Smith

Only people who shouldnt have a 22 in primary stat are the fighter/warlord bybrid and the paladin

and theirs should be a 20

wax eagle

@EtiennevanDelden ok, so you get a flat +4 from your level, probably another +5 from a ability score of 20 (hopefully he started with str 18). He's missing +2 or +3 from his weapon.

Joshua Aslan Smith

methinks the hybrid might also be not as helpful as a pure warlord

and expertise feat should add another +1

Etienne van Delden

None of them started with 18 in their primary, they are at 18 NOW

wax eagle

14:37

and a magic item should add +3

@EtiennevanDelden ouch

Joshua Aslan Smith

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

4e basically assumes at least an 18 in primary for all but a very very few classes

at lvl 1

that you are using weapons you have proficency with

that you will take an expertise feat in low heroic

there's only 1 class that can legitimately pull off a 16 primary and thats the Avenger

Etienne van Delden

So a quick solution for that would be to lower monster defenses? (So my players don't have to change their characters too much)

Joshua Aslan Smith

why not just fix the stats as a DM freebie?

wax eagle

yeah, I'd offer them a free rebuild

Joshua Aslan Smith

its always better to fix the source of the problem vs. patching on a bandaid

because unintended consequences will ripple through 4e's combat balance and return as a tsunami at some later point in time

Etienne van Delden

14:42

Good tip, I'll try to talk to my players, but they are kind of slow. It took some of them 3 sessions before they brought along a level 8 character when they leveled from 7 to 8 (I'm using group exp, they all have the same XP amount )

wax eagle

if your fighter is hitting at +9 right now at L8 he's missing over half the time. give him a starting stat of 20, expertise and proficiency with a +3 weapon and he'll be hitting like 80% of the time

@EtiennevanDelden that's good (the XP thing, not the slow players thing)

tbh you might look into at least a short term investment in character builder

Etienne van Delden

one of them has the offline character builder

wax eagle

@EtiennevanDelden that can be helpful, but most version are horrendously out of date (there was a group trying to keep up with updates, but I think they got DMCA'd)

probably still around, just much much harder to find

Etienne van Delden

Do you all advise me to keep track of their characters or have it be player's responsibility

Joshua Aslan Smith

it definitely should be their responsibility

DM has enough other balls to juggle

clearly outline that if they actually keep up with things that it can only benefit them

though you may want to consider a system switch if they aren't willing to invest the time into character upkeep for 4e

I LOVE 4e but players need to be willing to spend the time to ensure their characters are working

GMNoob

14:49

@JoshuaAslanSmith That's one of the reasons my group stopped playing 4e

DampeS8N

@EtiennevanDelden If your players aren't leveling their characters up, that points to other problems. Typically this means a lack of interest in the campaign. Players will often still come to a game they no longer care about, just for the table talk. You should talk to them each separately and try to get their overall opinion of the game. If you think they are just being polite to you, enlist someone you trust to get the straight poop from them for you.

Etienne van Delden

@DampeS8N I'll do that! I was planning to talk at the next session, because we haven't played for months due to planning issues

We agreed to play every second sunday of the month, but still there are people who plan something else then, so there are more problem than just Combat being slow...

DampeS8N

4E games also have a high incident of cancer. You'll make a ruling early in the game that has X ramifications that over time lead to some kind of growth that is unbalancing the combat. Unbalanced combat in 4E leads to significant slowdown and eventually, no matter how careful you are, you end up having to cut a huge part of your campaign out, or the campaign dies.

wax eagle

@EtiennevanDelden and it could be that the slow combat is part of what's keeping people away

GMNoob

@EtiennevanDelden my group had that problem until we decided to switch games

DampeS8N

14:56

Yes, absent players are players that have prioritized other things over the game because those other things sound more fun to them. Find out what they are doing instead of gaming and you may be surprised how unfun your game really is.

Etienne van Delden

@GMNoob to what system did you switch?

Joshua Aslan Smith

@EtiennevanDelden why did you/the group originally pick 4e?

Etienne van Delden

@JoshuaAslanSmith Because I had experience with DMing 4e and the others "Wanted to try D&D"

Joshua Aslan Smith

gotcha

might I suggest Dungeon World

Etienne van Delden

I have one player with more experience in D&D (everything AD&D and up), one who had played 3.5, but it started with a larger group that never played any edition

Joshua Aslan Smith

15:00

Combatwise its nowhere near 4e in terms of balance/tactical choices but it is a fun and exciting game that is simple and story focused and everyone I've met who has played it has said its what they thought D&D would be like

Etienne van Delden

Never heard of Dungeon World before, I'll take a look into it

Joshua Aslan Smith

let me give you a link

dungeon-world.com/#system

I could even run a dummy/example mini adventure for you depending on your time zone sometime if you're interested in seeing it in action

RobertF

Greetings, first time chatter. Has anyone here experimented with 3.5e or 4e rules to speed up combat? I responded to Etenne's Q - thought perhaps dropping the initiative rolls and letting PCs all move/attack at the same time would pep up combat. But would that completely break the system?

Joshua Aslan Smith

@robertf yeah, simultaneous action would explode 4e and frankly overwhelm the GM

in the end it would still be turn based because the numbers resolution would have to be parsed 1 at a time

Etienne van Delden

@JoshuaAslanSmith I'm in the Netherlands, I'll read up first before bothering your time, thanks!

wax eagle

15:03

@RobertF I've experimented and had a good experience (or know others who have), with all of the bullets in my answer.

RobertF

Etienne is using 30 second timed rounds, wouldn't that be enought ime for all players to make their to-hit rolls.

GMNoob

@EtiennevanDelden We switched to WFRP 1e and D&D 5e

wax eagle

@RobertF a 4e turn is way more than a hit roll

and half the time an ally's turn invalidates or changes what you want to do

GMNoob

Now that we have played two modules in WFRP 1e we are switching to 2e because the DM could only kill us by creating a PC as a monster.

Joshua Aslan Smith

Which is why you should be constantly paying attention to whats going on

RobertF

15:10

@waxeagle Right, there would be timing issues between players. I'll have to convince my next D&D group to run thru some playtests. You have good suggestions, but I wonder if more drastic changes are in order. I've been in groups where players are fooling around on iPhones during combat, it's insane.

Etienne van Delden

@Robe

Joshua Aslan Smith

i phone/laptop check out is the worst

its like, why are you here

wax eagle

@RobertF there are some math issues with this group I'd address before making major mechanical changes, even long hard combats shouldn't take this many rounds.

Etienne van Delden

@RobertF Group initiative was something we tried, but it completely blew up with my group. Every time their round happend it was "Talk tactics" > act > "Argue"

wax eagle

@EtiennevanDelden yep

Joshua Aslan Smith

15:11

you should not have your turn arraive and have to scan the board to see what happened and ask other players what they did

Etienne van Delden

I gotta run, but thanks for the advice everyone! It was all really helpful!

RobertF

Good luck with your game!

Gotta go too before boss wanders in...

Joshua Aslan Smith

walkingmind.evilhat.com/2014/07/10/dd-basic-rules-part-2

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith he's got some very good thoughts in both part 1 and 2 of that

Joshua Aslan Smith

I love that he jokes about magic planeswalkers aka MTG characters existing in the fiction possibly

wax eagle

15:18

@JoshuaAslanSmith I didn't know what he was talking about, but now all is clear and I am amused

Joshua Aslan Smith

yeah

the super powerful people/archetypes from MTG are called planeswalkers who do exactly that

Grubermensch

15:31

@waxeagle Like where he points out the order of character building has changed. The old way was a holdover from early simulationism, where you picked your class based on the random attributes you rolled which was... unfulfilling.

(I'm starting at the first post just now)

GMNoob

We still enjoy picking class based on dice rolls

Grubermensch

I never managed to participate in a long game with it. Maybe I should give it a serious try sometime.

wax eagle

@GMNoob that's fine, it's just a different way of looking at things by default

Grubermensch

Usually I want to tell a story though, and that means I want to be a particular kind of person to do that.

GMNoob

I was playing one retro clone that had so.many options random char gen made some impossible to explain chars. But.with the limited basic set its pretty fun

Joshua Aslan Smith

15:38

@grubermensch if your table is serious about combat the differences between players when they roll wills tand out

someone will invariably be much better and someone much worse than the table average

GMNoob

I've had the most luck in play by post games

Grubermensch

@JoshuaAslanSmith Right, so I often played with roll up six scores and arrange as desired, which was frustrating in that way.

Aaron

5e still the hot topic?

wax eagle

@Aaron yup

GMNoob

It will be until November :-)

wax eagle

15:40

All of Rob's thoughts linked from 1 easy blog post: walkingmind.evilhat.com/2014/07/10/5e-initial-review

Grubermensch

I have since moved towards standard arrays or point buy (though I dislike min-maxing so try to avoid point buy)

DampeS8N

@Grubermensch Rolling first and matching to class/race can lead you to playing a character you wouldn't normally have considered, which can be freeing.

Grubermensch

@DampeS8N Right, that's why I'd like to give it a serious shot sometime.

Joshua Aslan Smith

>Drizzt gets his own callout box. I wince a little.

GMNoob

I'm currently running a game on mythweavers where every char is roll in order

Grubermensch

15:41

@JoshuaAslanSmith Really, he gets a paragraph in the Drow box, so it's not quite so bad.

Joshua Aslan Smith

its more the ridiculousness of the character and his prevalence in all things D&D for like the last 15 years

GMNoob

I'm really happy with the chars in the manual. I never noticed them doing that before

DampeS8N

@JoshuaAslanSmith Cross Marketing is a thing, anyone who seriously expects WotC to not stick Drizzt into everything he can be in just doesn't understand business.

Grubermensch

@JoshuaAslanSmith So I was never into 3E/4E/novels, and so my impression of him is entirely reflected from the community.

GMNoob

Drizz 't should.have a movie or Tv series

Grubermensch

15:44

@GMNoob It ties into that whole focus on the Story of D&D that you talked about in your big answer.

Joshua Aslan Smith

I get that he sold books

and I get the financial gain

DampeS8N

@GMNoob TBH the stories and actual character behind Drizzt is friggin terrible fiction. This would be worse than take-your-pick of D&D movies.

Joshua Aslan Smith

but it is cringe worthy because its so blatant and their milking a cow that has pretty much dried up.

wax eagle

@DampeS8N the first one actually isn't awful we watched it not that long ago

(the second one looked like the direct to sy-fy that it was

DampeS8N

@waxeagle Ok, then assume I mean the Book of Vile Darkness movie

GMNoob

15:45

The fiction is wonderful if you ask me

DampeS8N

I guess there is no accounting for taste.

GMNoob

I like the chars and the cliches

Joshua Aslan Smith

hmm his blind readthrough train of thought style for this is interesting, because hes not understanding a lot of stuff at first

Aaron

I know 5e is the hot topic but could I get some help with wording on a question? I can't think of a good way to word it without it sounding silly or just off somehow.

GMNoob

Tv could use some loyalty

Joshua Aslan Smith

15:47

his suggestion that rogue > fighter is silly

DampeS8N

Well, ok, if you are in it for the camp and the over-the-top horse-play and the ham-fisting, sure. But those aren't generally considered positive traits.

Joshua Aslan Smith

So bad its good?

wax eagle

@Aaron sure

GMNoob

no, its just good and uncomplicated

@aaron fire away

Aaron

I am wanting to know if there is a system already made for something like influence Players have. So as they take action and they get more and more known it effects the world. Aside from being known by more powerful people which is mostly RP is there any mechanical benefit system for having a high reputation? I was thinking of giving them bonuses or penalties on purchases depending on a score I would give penalties and bonuses to depending on their actions.

wax eagle

15:49

@Aaron So you're looking for a bolt on reputation system for 3.PF?

Aaron

@waxeagle Yes.

wax eagle

(now with mechanical impact!)

Aaron

So I can track the effects of their actions easily instead of using guesswork.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@aaron see Cyberpunk 2020: Rockerboy class

Grubermensch

@JoshuaAslanSmith All he said was the archetype thingy was cooler, which I agree with. The fighter's might be more useful combat-wise, but it's very boring. Basically just makes you better at things you already do.

GMNoob

15:50

@aaron reputation but not factions?

Aaron

Right now I am just using 3 things. Good influence, evil Influence, and PC influence. Good being high means they more easily find powerful helpers/contacts. Evil being high means higher level encounters while they explore. PC influence gives discounts or price increases on purchases right now.

Joshua Aslan Smith

ah sounds like Fallout's reputation and karma systems

Aaron

@GMNoob Yes. Right now Factions are not in play in the game because the main focus is demons vs non demons.

wax eagle

question: "Is there a system for PC reputation in D&D 3.5?"
Body: "I'm looking for an optional, 3rd party or well defined homebrew reptuation for 3.5. I want to be able to track the impact of my player chracters' interactions with the envrionment, their access to important people etc as they level up and do things in the world. I want it to do:
- requirements
- more requirements
These things should be tracked in a way that's easy for me to maintain and is useful (and any other stuff you want to shove in here)

Grubermensch

I also think he underestimates the Arcane Tradition usefulness. Sculpt Spells was a gamechanger for the wizard in my playtest campaign.

GMNoob

15:53

fate the Pc game has good stuff like that. You have people who you can help. If you help them you get discounts

wax eagle

@Grubermensch I don't doubt it. I think he's trying to line them all up on a first pass and see what looks cool and what's underwhelming. When compared to domains, wizard schools are meh. But when you factor in the whole of wizardry vs clericdom I think it's probably closer to even

GMNoob

@grubermensch I think he feels that should come standard

Aaron

crap. I accidentally posted and deleted it. Can I edit it or should I just make a new one?

wax eagle

@Aaron edit and undelete

we've seen 1 domain and 1 tradition, I'll wait to see a few more before we think too much about it

Aaron

@waxeagle I can't click on edit.

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