TRPG General Chat

1:14 AM

Oh, @BESW, my local IRC bot/feed reader doesn't display text from posts past a certain point, meaning I'd prefer screenshots.

> Tweets to Campaign By may be bugged. Telephone rule: Don’t allow any unauthorized person to...

That may be a problem to bring up with the owner, yes.

BESW

3:48 AM

@ReaperOscuro You can only ping people who've been in the chat relatively recently (I'm not sure how the cut-off is determined), and Brian hasn't been in chat for some time, that I know of.

Magician

5:26 AM

Morning

BESW

@Metool Hm, yes. The HTML embedding is so much easier, though.

Magician

5:44 AM

@BESW I think I prefer screenshots. Without them it looses the sense of being an entire quote, if that makes sense. It's just a single phrase.

BESW

Ah.

There was a time when HTML embedding looked more like a tweet, but apparently that's gone now.

Well, today's queued up for HTML tweets. Tomorrow maybe we'll go back if I don't get any other input.

Inbar Rose

6:42 AM

Morning.

For once - there was not a huge amount of chatter between when I left and when I returned.

ReaperOscuro

7:18 AM

Morning to whom it is morning

i personally always like to think that if im meeting someone for the first time in a day, then it is the morning of that meeting, regardless of actual human-devised time measurements

ah thanks @BESW , but then how do i ask him as to why he did something? Its all very well and good deleting a post, but without feedback the alleged offender will go and perpetrate the crime again -and what if he thinks it was wrongly closed? Basically, i need to grab his attention, and i cannot see an easy way of doing such -apart from posting a comment asking for his attention, which seems silly

Inbar Rose

A conundrum.

ReaperOscuro

This early in the morn? Surely thats not a good sign, especially pre-coffee

Inbar Rose

Listen

You and all your chatter about Morning.

You should know, that there is a saying "The morning doesn't start till the coffee's done."

So enough about this morning business.

ReaperOscuro

But sir, i am not the one talking about conundrums before coffee has properly brutalised my neuron pathways and bullied my brain into activity!

Besides, we've probably moved to a theoretical afternoon of a meeting by this point

Inbar Rose

7:33 AM

That depends - have you had your coffee yet?

ReaperOscuro

Sadly not: ive been on the way to work. Yourself?

About the coffee i mean

Inbar Rose

I don't drink coffee to wake up anymore

I will drink espresso after lunch sometimes though.

There's a fabulous little Italian place we go to for lunch sometimes and they have great affogato.

Sven B.

7:50 AM

@InbarRose What do you drink to wake up ?

Inbar Rose

Unicorn tears.

I don't drink anything to wake up since the military.

And I can't sleep for more than 6 hours

I am totally 100% awake at all times.

And I don't remember my dreams, so it's like I hit the pillow and then just get up again 6 hours later.

ReaperOscuro

@InbarRose Conan style awake!

Inbar Rose

I suppose

ReaperOscuro

Sad times though the dream bleach

Inbar Rose

I haven't remembered a dream in over 6 years.

Another reason why I hate sleeping

It gives me nothing

Because I don't feel tired.

So it's just a waste of time that my body requires.

ReaperOscuro

7:53 AM

@SvenB. What do you drink to wake up?

Lol try saying that again after 48hrs no sleep, see how happy your brain is

Inbar Rose

I have gone many days with no sleep in the military. Doing hard physical tasks.

Sven B.

@ReaperOscuro Variations on herbal tea. These days, it's basil based.

Or, in desperate cases, coffee with powdered ginger and lots of sugar.

Inbar Rose

Ginger in coffee? Sounds retched, but intriguing.

ReaperOscuro

I like your coffee idea Sven, might try it

Ginger coffee = infested terran?

@InbarRose granted i am not saying you cannot achieve it especially if youve acquired high discipline and willpower. I am however saying that it is not something your brain nor body can mantain for long

unless youre a dolphin or space marine of course

Inbar Rose

@ReaperOscuro your brain and your body. I have been trained for years to be able to.

ReaperOscuro

7:57 AM

then perhaps less conan, more terminator? Even conan had to sleep once in a blue moon!

Inbar Rose

I must say, being in the military was a very life-changing experience (obviously) but in different ways than you think. It gives you a different perspective on things.

Sven B.

@InbarRose Ginger coffee needs some sugar to smoothen things

Just ginger and coffee doesn't taste all that great

Inbar Rose

Especially as a gamer, and role player. I mostly laugh at the way the military is portrayed in these games, and have a new found appreciation for warriors/military men.

ReaperOscuro

I can tots see why @InbarRose : many times i wonder what compulsory military would of been like, but i am always grateful i just about missed it

@SvenB. I might have to try without sugar first, just to corroborate :)

Inbar Rose

But why powdered ginger? Isn't it better to just take a fresh ginger root and scrape some in?

I love ginger, but would never think to put it in coffee.

ReaperOscuro

8:01 AM

But remember @InbarRose , thats a ott and glorified portrayal of usa military, those who accept it as truth alas arent entirely sane

Sven B.

@ReaperOscuro You've been warned. But it doesn't take a lot to smoothen the flavors. It just takes a lot to get a sugar rush. ^^

Inbar Rose

@ReaperOscuro Who said I was in the USA military?

crickets

Sven B.

@InbarRose Powdered ginger is just easier to keep. I love fresh ginger, but I don't consume nearly enough to ensure a fresh root won't go bad before I use it.

Inbar Rose

@SvenB. Buy smaller roots. Use more. :)

You can keep it in the fridge it will last longer.

ReaperOscuro

@SvenB. I love bitter so should be fine :)

Inbar Rose

8:06 AM

Ginger is more than just "bitter" :)

ReaperOscuro

Lol no @InbarRose , meant in games thats what gets used!

Inbar Rose

@ReaperOscuro Learn to reply to specific posts, that way your words are clear.

ReaperOscuro

Its hardcore i know i know, but if i dont try it cannot call myself a man!

Metool

Is 'obsolete' okay as a verb? As in "I tweaked this capstone so it doesn't obsolete the core track ability you've been using for the last 17-19 levels"?

ReaperOscuro

Ah i see: can i do that on mobile though? I just about manage to use the @ tag...

@Metool lol no, alas its not. Morning!

Sven B.

8:07 AM

@InbarRose I've wasted too much ginger this way, thinking I'd use it for cooking and mixed drinks and what nots

Inbar Rose

@ReaperOscuro I actually don't know. Didn't know you were on mobile.

Sven B.

@Metool I think the verb is 'obsolesce'

ReaperOscuro

But instead "i tweaked this capstone so the core track ability you've been using for tot levels isn't obsolete"

Put it at the end

Metool

verb (used with object) 6. to make obsolete by replacing with something newer or better; antiquate: Automation has obsoleted many factory workers.

Inbar Rose

@SvenB. Pro-Tip. If it's about to go bad, you can grate it up and put it into some ice cube trays and fill with water, then you have forzen ginger you can use in cooking. (or in coffee)

ReaperOscuro

8:08 AM

@InbarRose its the future, mobile chatting!

Inbar Rose

Can't you press on the chat message itself?

ReaperOscuro

I suggest yall put it at the end, it makes the word flow much bettor. Otherwise youre sounding like an urban street user

Na

would have to change to full site, but that works awkwardly on mobile. Ah ill mention it on meta laters!

Sven B.

merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obsolesce

Metool

Obsolescing is what the core ability would do in the presence of the capstone, whereas the capstone would obsolete the core ability, if I'm understanding correctly...

ReaperOscuro

@Metool and @SvenB. Sorry meant its fine as a verb, but not where its placed in that word, see re-arranging suggestion

trust, i hail from Albion, i know my shizzle!

Inbar Rose

8:12 AM

Albion, that's a bit archaic don't you think?

ReaperOscuro

I am a bit archaic, suits me fine ;)

Oh alright i mean the United Kingdom!

@Metool ah some coffee now: can just put "make" infront of obsolete and itll work fine

anyway thanks for the company peeps, guess i best do some work, sad times. Have a good day one and all!

Metool

8:28 AM

@ReaperOscuro Righto, bye.

BESW

@ReaperOscuro First off, don't misuse the answer function and don't use mods as your personal servants. If you don't have the rep to make comments, don't use the answer function to comment. That means you either don't understand the system, or you expect a mod to come along and make it a comment for you--which is not what they're there for.

Second, your "comment" answer doesn't explain itself. Even if someone were totally familiar with the half-dozen different classes/mechanics you mention, you leave figuring out how they fit together as an exercise to the reader.

Inbar Rose

8:55 AM

Which is bad form.

BESW

9:16 AM

Tweets to Campaign By wonders what the ghost did.

A crowd went last night to see the ghost that has been playing pranks at the old Jewish cemetery. Every one returned home disgusted. IL1890

Tweeted by TweetsofOld on October 16, 2013 at 3:41 AM

Sven B.

The Aristocrats!

BESW

9:37 AM

►

@ReaperOscuro Comments have a very small set of very specific functions in SE.

Inbar Rose

But ~~mostly~~ often are used for quips, complaining, and personal attacks.... :(

BESW

Mmm, well.

Inbar Rose

Better?

BESW

So long as the comments don't get too out of hand, they just get deleted the next time a mod wanders past.

But don't expect a mod to turn an answer post into a comment when its content doesn't match any of the intended uses of comments.

And comments should never be expected to endure forever. If a comment doesn't have a pretty clear expiration date on its usefulness, then it shouldn't be a comment.

Magician

10:37 AM

Having written a post on 13th Age, I'm now considering writing another one... on a single monster in that system. The Peculiar Case of the Owlbear. Am I insane?.. It'd be a vehicle to explore monster design, of course, but still.

BESW

Sure, why not?

If it'll be interesting and fun for you to write, go for it.

Magician

A thousand words (I can't seem to write less) on a single monster with a single ability: on a crit it tears off your limb and wanders off. That's it :D

BESW

Sounds right up your alley.

Sven B.

Vorpal Owlbear?

BESW

Won't do much toward keeping you from being The Goblin Dice Guy, though.

@SvenB. ...can I dual-wield the vorpal owlbears?

3

Magician

10:42 AM

@BESW Hahaha, shhh!

@SvenB. It doesn't have to be the head.

@BESW I love that that's your first question.

Sven B.

Sorry, I'm thinking of 2nd Ed. Keen weapons.

BESW

@Magician I am but a humble student who studied at the Coastal Wizards' feet.

Magician

Hm. May I quote you gentlemen for the amusement of others on my G+ stream?

BESW

Go for it.

Sven B.

Yes, yes you may.

Magician

10:51 AM

Excellent. And what have you been up to?

Sven B.

Not much, for myself.

BESW

Prepping for the potentially-oncoming storm.

goes.noaa.gov/guam/guamloops/guamircolor.html

Magician

@BESW That's quite pretty

BESW

It's also very blustery.

It hasn't developed an eye yet, so it's still a tropical depression rather than a storm.

But it seems to be doing its best to make a 90-degree turn from westward to northward, and that slows it down, and the slower it gets the stronger it gets... and north is us...

So we've stocked up on beans and water.

Magician

11:08 AM

@BESW Sheesh, that sounds scary.

BESW

Well, we don't know whether, or for how long, we'll be without power or water or both.

So you stock up on drinking water, draw water for washing and flushing, and get food that won't spoil and doesn't need to be cooked.

Water is rarely out more than a couple days, if at all, but it's safest to assume no power for a week or two.

Magician

Guess we might not see you around for a while.

BESW

Unlikely that'll happen this time, unless the storm slows way down AND manages to go straight up, but better safe than sorry. We haven't had a typhoon hit in ten years.

But I grew up with September to November as typhoon season, and being surprised if we didn't get hit at least once.

I'll be finding Internet cafes as soon as possible if our power goes out.

Most of the restaurants have their own generators.

And it's most likely that the system will just graze us as it passes to the southwest.

This isn't really a science--the second-worst storm in living memory was bad partly because nobody thought it would hit, so we weren't prepared. It was late in the season for storms and we'd had two close calls that the weathermen said would hit but didn't.

So nobody took down their Christmas lights, and then we got the eye straight over the top of the island.

My family, at least, prepares for worse than we expect. The last storm, ten years ago, saw our power out for three months.

But we were out in the boonies back then. We don't know what it'll be like in this condo in the middle of the island.

(The undeveloped south usually gets hardest hit, because--like with this storm--the typhoons usually pass below us.)

ReaperOscuro

Annoying, still cannot respond to specific msgs via full site on mobile. Strangely enough, lets me do such with some but not all!!

Tridus

Good morning.

Sounds like you get a lot of storms BESW

ReaperOscuro

11:19 AM

Afternoon, but maybe morn for you :)

BESW

@Tridus Yeah, but not lately.

In the 90s a year we didn't get at least one storm was unusual.

But our last big storm was in... late 2003, I think.

Since then we've hardly even had banana typhoons.

@ReaperOscuro Mid evening over here.

Tridus

We've got a lot of timezones covered here

@BESW That's good. So long as people dont forget how to prepare or become complacent.

(We get hurricanes so rarely here that it's hard to get people to take the risk seriously. So when one does hit there tends to be a lot of problems that were entirely avoidable with even basic preparation.)

BESW

@Tridus I think an occasional natural disaster is good for the societal gestalt.

Reminds us that it's the people and our relationships with each other that are important, not our stuff.

We get typhoons, earthquakes, and a couple volcanoes at the north end of the chain.

ReaperOscuro

@BESW hm i disagree on two points. 1) so we basically saying "cant use comments? Then hush" even if someone has something they deem relevant to add? That seems silly. And 2) moderators are there for being contacted, because if they are in charge they need to account for what they do

Although i see ur point about making it unclear

@BESW well ill gladly not suffer through the earths wrath -at least until we melt the polar caps and the uk gets submerged i guess!

Tridus

@BESW Yeah, true. Particularly when they're the kind that don't kill tens of thousands of people to do it.

BESW

11:26 AM

@Tridus We had a 7.8 Richter earthquake in the early 90s and no one died. Two buildings got structural damage and had to be demolished, but they hadn't been built to code.

ReaperOscuro

Oh and gg with the storm @BESW !

BESW

We have very strict building code: we basically build above-ground bunkers.

@ReaperOscuro Comments are a reputation privilege. There's a good reason for that.

Tridus

@BESW That's really good for such a strong quake.

BESW

Reputation is a rough indication of one's ability and willingness to be a constructive participant within the site's rules. It's a hurdle we need to be willing to overcome.

ReaperOscuro

@BESW ah so the answer i gave was correct but unclear, since it offered an alternate answer!

BESW

11:29 AM

It could have been a decent answer if it had been expanded on and explained.

ReaperOscuro

Thats fine, but what if someone has a minor point to add, but can only do such via am answer? Why should they be punished for not being able to share it any other way?

Ill do that laters, ta

sorry to leave peeps stupid meeting, but thanks for the insight :)

BESW

@ReaperOscuro If you have something constructive to add via comment, you can wait 'til you have the reputation to make the comment: either it will have been addressed by someone else already, or it will still be constructive when you're able to make it.

Comments aren't for "adding minor points" anyway.

If you look at the examples under the "Add relevant but minor or transient information" part of the comments page, it gives examples that aren't mini-answers like yours was.

@ReaperOscuro Not having a privilege is not the same as being punished. SE citizens start with the basic fundamental ability to interact with the site. As we prove that we are able to participate constructively and within its parameters, we get access to expanded features and privileges.

Tridus

On another note, I'm still dealing with fallout from those character deaths a couple of weeks ago. The other guy who died made a new character instead of getting a resurrection. So I dealt with that part, and the new guy is in the party.

BESW

Or are you honestly suggesting that any spam robot should be able to leave comments?

Tridus

He decided to make a Master of Many Forms, on the basis of reading what appears to be an old guide from an optimizer.

BESW

11:36 AM

@Tridus Oooh.

Tridus

As a result, he has a very, very poor grasp of how the rules actually work. So naturally he read them in the way that's most beneficial to him, which is roughly "I can polymorph into absolutely anything"

Magician

I'd polymorph into a giant with two vorpal owlbears instead of hands.

Tridus

That's led to all sorts of problems when I had to explain to him that Wild Shape is not Polymorph, and he doesn't get half the stuff he thinks he does.

BESW

Oh, dear.

Tridus

so he points to this guide. I point to the rules. He points to page 87 of the FAQ. I point to page 88 which contradicts page 87

BESW

11:37 AM

This is why I always tried to make time at the table for character creation.

Tridus

he points to an article about polymoprh. I remind him that polymoprh != wild shape

that's what I wanted to do. He wants to make his own stuff, mostly because he reads this stuff online and wants to "win"

meanwhile the people just playing something simple like Paladin 10 don't have thisproblem and are having fun

Anyway, as part of making this character he asked what he was familiar with, so what he could shift into. Because I say no to him so often, I tried to be nice and just said "everything in the SRD is fine"

Which I thought was actually pretty lenient (and easy, because there's no keeping track of anything)

... so imagine my surprise when he starts talking about changing into weird stuff from MM 2 and 3, even though we've had that conversation four times already

BESW

@Magician "Use your imagination, Kerner! Think big, like the Americans. Think of pit fiends with vorpal owlbears. Think of dragons, think of tarrasques with vorpal owlbear teeth!"

3

Tridus

Why? Because he read some optimizers post somewhere about how you use this weird creature from MM 3 with this interpretation of how polymoprh works and hey you get all its racial traits and all its feats and all your stuff too!

Except, no

Every single thing in that is wrong :P

Magician

@Tridus Not to mention MM2 and MM3 are not even 3.5

@BESW Don't make me star 2 quotes about owlbears.

Tridus

@Magician Pretty sure MM 3 is. There's an update for MM 2, but it's kind of a PITA to use it.

Anyway, this is when I lost it. I had other things to be doing at this point like taking care of my baby.

And I've had more rule arguments with him than with every single other player combined, by a factor of about three

Magician

11:43 AM

@Tridus Ah, you're right. I was thinking of Fiend Folio.

Tridus

And Druid is my favorite class, and if you're going to tell me it works other than how it works and you gain featsa of things you shift into, you better have more to go on than "some guy on the Internet said so"

BESW

I always told my players that if they didn't run their builds and plans past me before it hit the table that was fine, but it meant I reserved the right to squash it at the table if it turned out to be untenable.

Tridus

@BESW Yeah that's pretty much exactly what happened. The build itself is okay, but shifting doesn't work how he thought it did and so it's not a cheese monkey overpowered fest now

BESW

@Magician I can't find a Youtube clip of what I'm riffing on.

Magician

@BESW's quotes are becoming a bit owlbearing.

3

Tridus

11:44 AM

(Not that it's weak, it's still a Druid)

So the problem now is that his old character (that he liked) is dead, and he doesn't want to retcon it back a second time, having already done this once before

But he no longer likes the new one, after being told how the thing actually works

Dear Player: Raise Dead is there for a reason. Learn to love it.

I'm not really sure how to deal with him anymore, because he's so frustrating. We talk all the time, but he has it in his head that he needs to try and be as powerful as possible rather than just playing the character we both know he loves playing (which was pretty powerufl anyway). So he keeps sabotaging himself.

BESW

►

@Tridus Have you told him exactly that?

Tridus

@BESW Yes, yesterday. That was when I ran out of patience

Magician

@BESW Yay, context.

BESW

"Hey, it seems like you feel you need to be as powerful as possible, and you're sacrificing the ability to play characters you enjoy in order to be powerful. I don't want PCs to need to be that powerful to be successful in this game, so what can I do to help you make characters you'll enjoy without worry about power levels?"

@Magician One of my favorite games ever.

Magician

I've had a similar player. The problem wasn't in him being unable to face the opposition with a suboptimal character, that I could handle. It was in him seeing other characters be more competent than his, while in fiction they shouldn't have been.

Tridus

11:56 AM

@Magician His old character was arguably the strongest at the table in terms of results obtained. But he was playing a Barbarian, so he seems to have it in his head that it was bad despite his actual effectiveness

BESW

Sounds like he's gotten theorycrafting stuck in his head, and is prioritizing it over experience.

Tridus

(There's also a Paladin and a Rogue, so the party collectively isn't exactly trying to play gods. I just balance the encounters apprpriately and it's gone fine)

BESW

Hmm.

I think he has Lord_Gareth's Disease.

Tridus

@BESW Yeah that's exactly what he's doing. The experience has been great, when he's playing his Barbarian. Every time he tries to play something better, the result winds up being this. Last time we just retconned the Barbarian back in to make everyone happier.

Magician

@BESW Severe Monk Inflamation?

BESW

11:59 AM

@Magician The illusion that mathematics can provide an absolute baseline for D&D experience, and all results at the table which do not reflect the math are deviations from a "normal" D&D experience.

IE, that in D&D number-crunching means anything without table-specific context.

Magician

@BESW I'm not so sure about this particular bit, as my player wasn't that big on math (which is why he couldn't make optimized characters).

It was all about the perception of competence.

BESW

@Magician Yeah, I'm not talking about your player.

Metool

@BESW Interesting term.

BESW

@Metool I use it in loving jest, and he'll know that.

Tridus

All of that didn't even help him in the last session, since they were on a side quest and the entire night had two die rolls: both were gather information.

BESW

12:02 PM

@Tridus oof, the misapplied Goblin Die strikes again!

[shakes fist at d20 System]

Tridus

@BESW The what?

BESW

@Tridus @Magician coined the term Goblin Die to describe a die roll that is very unpredictable.

It's good for killing goblins: you roll high, goblin dies; roll low, goblin lives. Doesn't matter, eventually the goblin will die.

Which roll kills the goblin isn't important because you roll so many times it'll happen eventually.

This is the result of a swingy die in which failure isn't significantly penalized.

d20s are perhaps the ur-example of goblin dice.

But when the system takes a goblin die and uses it for a single important roll--like a Diplomacy check--the goblin die is being misapplied.

Tridus

Interesting blog post, makes sense

BESW

Suddenly the unpredictable nature of the die isn't interesting, it's terrifying. You don't get averages or do-overs, you just have a single capricious die determining your fate.

Tridus

Wasn't a problem in this case though, those two checks went fine and the rest of the session was done the old fashioned way: bribery, talking, and throwing a party to give people you want to get information out of some special tea

BESW

12:07 PM

And while that can be interesting and engaging in some games, the skill system found in D&D 3.5 and most other d20 System games is a very poor use of the mechanic.

Tridus

Course that left Mr. Optimizer not really doing much, because he didn't have a die roll for "talk this guy on the docks into telling me where the shipment went"

BESW

4e tries to mitigate this with the skill challenge, but providing multiple die rolls to determine a single outcome, but it's a band-aid rather than a solution (and as implemented, skill challenges are really quite awful; there are a number of hacks and alternatives which are better to use).

@Tridus That tells me that he didn't expect to be playing the kind of game you provided him that session.

Tridus

@BESW In my experience, 3.5 optimizers very rarely think about optimizing for "you have to go into town and talk to people."

Part of that is the system's design, that's just not a focus. But they often just don't care about that either

BESW

Which means a) you misled him as to the nature of the game, or b) he misunderstood, or c) he chose to tell you what kind of game he wanted to play, via his character sheet, and you didn't respond to it.

Or d) you changed your mind about the kind of game it would be and didn't tell him in a way he understood.

Tridus

@BESW He knew ahead of time this session was going to be of a social nature, because I told everybody that was coming on the side quest while we dealt with the other guy leaving

It also shouldn't be a surprise since we've been playing for a year and there have been no lack of sessions like this. The other players all like a break from dungeoneering to go do some above ground stuff

BESW

12:12 PM

I consider my players' character sheets as their way of telling me what they expect out of the game. If it doesn't match what I want to do, I need to make sure some communication occurs before I drop them into a situation they aren't equipped to be a meaningful part of.

If he's okay with being useless sometimes, that's fine.

Tridus

(His previous character was heading for the championship round in solo combat in the city's colosieum, and he liked to play that up to go do stuff in the city. So he has done it before and would have known more was coming.)

(Course, his new one doesn't have that year of making connections and a reputation to work with, so he's a nobody in comparison. Which of course was another reason to keep the old character...)

BESW

But a lot of this has to do with how much you use mechanics--if he needs a die roll to talk to people at the docks, that's a totally different thing than if you'll let the mechanics slip into the background for him in those situations.

Tridus

Nah, I let people just talk to the guy at the docks if they want to

you can use a die roll if you don't want to RP it. If you do, we RP it and there's no roll. That's why there was only two rolls the entire session

Everybody else was happy to talk everything out

BESW

@Tridus That's an artificial problem created by a strange and silly assumption.

If the druid is roughly the same level as the barbarian (and thus has roughly the same worldly experience), why would we assume that the druid has no contacts or reputation just because we didn't actually get to see it happen?

We're perfectly willing to let him gain however-many thousands of XP off-screen and learn his abilities and train his animal companion before we meet him.

We assume he's seen dozens or hundreds of random beasties so he can turn into them.

But he's never made a friend if it didn't happen where we could see it?

Tridus

@BESW Because the character background he wrote says that he came from a forest 50 miles out and has been in the city about two days total? Again, how he set it up.

BESW

12:17 PM

@Tridus 50 miles is pretty close by for a guy who can turn into a bird, but fair enough. If he took the social handicap on his own terms, that's fine.

All you said was that he hadn't had the time the barbarian did to get socially established, which implies the druid just sort of... didn't exist... off-screen.

Metool

> <p>Telephone rule: Don&#8217;t allow any unauthorized person to &#8220;tinker&#8221; with your phone. KY1907</p>

Tridus

He did, but he's not from this region so he's not very established here. The Barbarian spent a year becoming famous in this city

Metool

Woo, HTML.

Tridus

So I mean if you decide to change from someone who spent a year becoming famous to someone who just showed up, your social standing is going to take a hit and you're going to have a harder time using your reputation than the rest of the party, who have also been around quite a while making names for themselves

He basically set himself back relative to eveyrone else on this.

So now it's "well the Paladin is well respected, let him do it"

BESW

@Tridus If he'd said that his druid was born and raised in the city, would he then have been considered to have contacts and reputation there?

@Metool You have a wacky RSS reader.

Tridus

12:21 PM

@BESW Yep, there is a community in the city's territory that is well established for him to have been in, and they deal with the rest of the city.

BESW

But the people have been heard, and the posts go back to screenshots tomorrow.

Tridus

It'd still have been a step back for him, because he had a good shot on his old character of being a champion gladiator had the plotline been allowed to finish. That's a fairly big deal in some circles.

But he'd have been better off than "okay, you're nobody"

BESW

mmm.

I'd have been inclined to let his new character have some similar level of prestige as his old character, in a context that makes sense.

No reason a level 12 druid won't be just as famous as a level 12 barbarian--if the barbarian worked hard to get his fame then what, are we saying the druid's a lazy slacker didn't work hard just because we didn't see it happen?

Here's my philosophy: The player did the work, not the barbarian. And the player is still at your table. He takes time out of his busy schedule to come and be part of the game, and I don't want to trivialize that. I'll give the player the fruits of his time and effort, whether it's with one PC or another.

2

Tridus

@BESW Well, if they go to his hometown (which is aonther city entirely) than he probably would be pretty well known. His fame doesn't travel across the map "just because", and he wasn't interested in coming up with a reason why it should.

BESW

@Tridus Aye, and were it me I'd make sure his druid's reputation was similar in scope and usefulness to the effort he'd put into getting reputation with the barbarian.

To do otherwise is similar to having his new PC start at level 1 again, and I always thought that was pretty insulting to my players unless they requested it.

Tridus

12:31 PM

I'm having a hard time reconciling the idea that a person who spent a year building up a reputation should have the same reputation has someone who just shows up for the first time that nobody has ever heard of. If he had wanted to be known in town for something, I'd have tried to accomodate him.

He didn't.

BESW

"Just shows up" is from a player perspective, not a game-world perspective. But yes, I'd be fine with his reputation being centered in a different sphere.

Tridus

If he had tried to talk to the guy anyway, it may have still worked. This wasn't exactly classified information they were trying to find out. He chose to let other people do it.

BESW

Personally, if I'd chosen to RP a PC with no local knowledge or connections, I'd've tagged along and done my best to start getting a reputation.

"Who you know" is pretty important, and if the other PCs are well-known, that's a great leg up for me.

Tridus

I'd love to help him make better choices, but when he makes poor ones and then doesn't like the outcome I'm only willing to go so far in trying to clean it up.

Yes, it is.

I really think that reluctance just goes back to him not liking the character that much anymore. He lost a lot of enthusiasm when I had to teach him how it actually works.

BESW

Understandable.

Tridus

12:37 PM

Even when his old character was unknown he wasn't afraid to go around town talking to people and such, because he was having fun doing it.

Aaron

Gmorning

Tridus

Morning

wax eagle

the other option might be to give him an opportunity at the outset to establish a comparable base of contacts

BESW

What about having his barbarian's Suspiciously Similar cousin/brother/friend show up?

Hi.

Tridus

If he was willing to accept it, I'd just have the gods send back his old character to the world of the living.

with where things are in the main plotline, that's actually not much of a stretch in terms of "does that make sense?"

The other players liked that character too and nobody would mind

BESW

12:40 PM

...revenants....

Tridus

@waxeagle Yeah, if he wants to do that he certainly could. He's one of the stronger Druids around the area, he could make friends in some circles fairly easily.

wax eagle

@BESW oh I've been meaning to show you. Someone linked this on the Reaper KS, and I know minis aren't your thing, but ponies are: reapermini.com/forum/index.php?/topic/…

@Tridus I'd make sure the offer is clearly made, say "hey I don't want to penalize you for bringing in a new character, and I want to make sure this stays fun, I'd like to give you the opportunity, if you'd like, to build up a comparable base of contacts with your druid"

Tridus

@waxeagle That's awesome

BESW

Rarity is in so many of the pony packs, and she hardly ever looks like they even tried to make her look good.

wax eagle

@Tridus they went all out, largely to get a player who was unhappy with current campaign direction to come back and play.

Tridus

12:44 PM

@BESW It's not like Hasbro's toy division pretends to know what they're doing with pony toys.

BESW

@Tridus True, but some of them look pretty good! Even if they can't ever get the heads shaped right.

Tridus

@waxeagle Yeah that's great. :) I just put the humanized versions of the mane 6 somewhere in the city. They spend a lot of time with Twilight, as she's the librarian at the Arcane College

BESW

But Rarity always looks like somebody fell asleep before they did a final pass on the model, and their superior just grabbed it from their limp hands.

wax eagle

@Tridus nice, I'm not a pony guy yet...

Tridus

(well, assistant librarian)

BESW

12:45 PM

@waxeagle Gooble gobble, gooble gobble.

Tridus

@BESW I really feel that a lot of time the ones that look good are by accident rather than design, given how often they get it wrong.

BESW

Heh.

Tridus

I got my best friend a Rarity plush from Whitedove for christmas last year, and it looks amazing

Hasbro isn't in the same league

(That said, the vinyl hot topic models tend to look fairly good. Hopefully they do a Rarity in that style)

Zachiel

@ReaperOscuro It heavily depends on the site. Once per day, whenever you can, twice per day - it also depends if the game has a need for taking turns in a fixed order or not

(Sorry I misrememberd which game I talked you about, I think we were talking about play by forum last time)

The best thing to do would be asking for a campaign that caters to your needs.

Tridus

Anyway thanks for the ideas yet again folks. I'd planned on talking to him again this afternoon, hopefully we can get this resolved. Everything else is going well, so that'd be great

ReaperOscuro

12:52 PM

@Tridus why not just point him to the MoMF bible? Plus i feel his pain in a way, that class got mega nerfed from 3.0 to 3.5, but is still cool

Tridus

@ReaperOscuro Amusingly it's the MoMF bible where he first got the idea that he gains things like the feats of things he wild shapes into

ReaperOscuro

Personally what i agreed with dm at time was that i only know creatures that i defeat and of which i eat their heart, plus two relatively non-game breaking extra ones per momm level

Hmmm....well....its tricky. Feats are special qualities right? So he should gain the extraordinary ones at lv 7, or am i getting confused meself lol?!?!

Tridus

As usual, the rules are badly written. But there's natural qualities, extraordinary ones, supernatural ones, and spell like ones

ReaperOscuro

@BESW i see your point, but i still say 50 is a steep rep requirement for what is essentially being able to post a short answer

BESW

@ReaperOscuro Comments are not short answers.

Tridus

12:55 PM

originally wild shape was based on Polymorph, and Polymoprh gives you the natural ones. So you get racial changes and the like

then they changed Wild Shape to be based off Alternate Form, which doesn't do that

ReaperOscuro

@Zachiel well if it can be once/twice a day, then sure! And yea it was the forum one you mentioned lol

Tridus

(Elemental Wild Shape has to say explicitly that yo udo get those things, because otherwise you don't)

Extraordinary special qualities are not feats. They're things like Blindsense (Ex)

that you don't get by default because they're not attacks

you do get them at level 7

you don't get the things feats

ever

Zachiel

@ReaperOscuro dungeons.dragons.forumfree.it there's a PbF section.

Tridus

(unless you're turning into an Elemental of course, because that one says you do)

Zachiel

must dash away now

bye!

ReaperOscuro

12:57 PM

@Tridus yea was getting that wrong sorry

@Zachiel ta ill check it out, laters!

Tridus

@ReaperOscuro It's pretty common, these rules are a mess.

ReaperOscuro

Its been a while since played dnd :,(

Although im still 99% on the hp thing, but thats just me ;P

did you used to get the feats in 3.0?

Tridus

All about Polymorph talks about polymoprh, where you gain the natural features but not the extraordinary properties, and then tries to divide up what you get and what yo udon't. So that's a way of seeing what's an extraordinary special property and what you get

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