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12:11 AM
Time for D&D.
 
 
4 hours later…
4:04 AM
@BESW mind spike comes to mind
 
@waxeagle Yeah, I gave the NPC all of them and so far none of them have come up. (In the encounter right now.)
 
@BESW fun :) we just finished up
 
@BESW Shouldn't you be running rather than looking at SE chat? :P
 
I use inCombat and the Compendium and such.
 
@somori wat? chatting with us isn't an important part of DMing?
@BESW good call. I made our DM look up stuff in the compendium several times tonight...he was kinda pissed at me by the end (Glowering threat on his 2 monsters wasn't well received)
 
4:08 AM
@waxeagle I'd have put us as a distraction during a complicated task...
@BESW fair enough
 
Joke (from a discussion of a PC's unreasonably good reach): "They errata'd 2+2; it's 5 now. It's better for balance."
5
 
@BESW this sums up 4e's errata pretty well perfectly
 
Food break!
One of our players has been leaving 'any week now' for a few weeks, so we wrapped up his main PC's story and he's been running a redshirt barbarian designed to die easy and spectacularly in place of 'main characters.'
This session, he officially resigned. "This is my last mission! What could go wrong? Also, I have strong theological convictions and pictures of my wife and children."
 
4:32 AM
When a PC has been designed to do devastating reactionary damage on being dropped to 0 hp, and the adventure calls for multiple duplicate copies of PCs...
[watches the party duck and cover when the wizard opens fire]
 
5:05 AM
@BESW Ouch.... That's one way to clear out a room.
 
@BESW PC? or NPC?
 
5:31 AM
@waxeagle A player designed his PC to be a bomb, and our encounter has conjured NPCs based on the PCs.
(With significantly less HP, and duplication potential.)
So the wizard opens fire with his AoEs and kills multiples of the PC copies at once....
 
@BESW Chain Reactions, yay!
 
6:24 AM
Tonights Session was brutal.
but fun
Somewhat impossible CR Traps which were easily disabled by the artificer.
and a few Dificult enemies. Including a Bearded Devil with class levels and magical gear who had a Massive Damage hit against the Warblade whom also Hit for massive damage. Both had made their save. then the artificer out of nowhere takes a +1 Sling of Corrosive and Shoots a Silver Peice into the Devil Killing him stone dead.
Ive asked the artificer to sculpt a maidenhead of the ship in the likeness of a bearded devil with that silver peice sticking out of his head.
I had to Time Hop the warblade to get him out of the way and into safety.
 
 
3 hours later…
9:06 AM
@Novian That is a very elegant and narrative death for a devil. I like it. Makes sense, lots of symbolism and looks cool doing it.
@Novian Pretty sure you mean figurehead. Maidenhead is something different.
 
@BESW Very very very very different.
 
 
3 hours later…
11:48 AM
@somori Gee, it's like you want them to go look it up or something.
 
@BESW Just pointing out that it's not a confusion you want to make.
 
@somori There's a Rozencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead joke in there, but I'm not sure I can make it concisely.
So, I'm looking into Even More Ways to minimize my turns in combat. I'm going to try standardized damage on all monsters next: one flat damage for hit, and a higher one for crits.
(I don't know what more I can do, Wizards! I've ripped out all the filler combat, taken tedious solo battles designed only to frustrate and drain resources and replaced them with fast and furious high-damage terrain encounters, disavowed recharge powers except in the most dire of circumstances, lowered hp and defenses drastically, and I'm still lucky to get two encounters a session!)
This evening I had a solo who only took one action on his turns and made a single attack at the start of each PC's turn!
[rages to the developer heavens]
 
How much time are the PCs taking on their turns?
 
@somori Quite a bit. That's the major drain, but I don't really feel like I can reasonably expect them to speed up.
It's the only social time they get with each other each week, they're running complex characters, and talking a lot of involved strategy.
 
So long as they're having fun with building that strategy, I don't think there's any more that you can do.
 
11:58 AM
@somori Yeah. I'd be less concerned if we weren't trying to finish the story before they leave island.
One of them actually had his last session today.
 
@BESW If that's the case... the only thing I can suggest is less encounters.
 
I'm reaching the point where I'm force-leveling them every session.
@somori I've stripped entire adventures from my original campaign outline.
 
Wow.... how much time have you lost from your initial outline?
 
To finish the story we have to: travel to the Astral Plane and defeat the Devourer in Pluton; get yanked 70 years into the future by the dragonpope to fight a corrupted dragon; discover the imminent arrival of Cthulhian starbeast in the enemy capital; travel there; defeat it (taking out the city as collateral damage in the process); and then play both sides of a fight to kill the dragonpope.
 
How much real world time had you planned to tell that story in?
 
12:02 PM
I would like to also do an Evil Interlude where we play the evil empire's strike squadron taking out one of the good guys' flying fortresses.
A year.
 
Sounds reasonable. How much time have you got?
 
From that outline I've dropped: rescuing a paladin from the Crawling God; infiltrating and then escaping the enemy capital (to familiarize the party with it before the endgame); engaging in pitched battle on a field of thousands; and purifying a Far-Realm-tainted artifact.
@somori ...March.
My rpg.se profile says "Never short on overambitious ideas."
 
Yeah, that is quite ambitious!
 
I also had a planned character arc to weave through all this that I instead condensed into two sessions a few weeks ago because the player didn't know when he'd be leaving.
I shouldn't have tried so big with my first 4e campaign, but I was excited.
I really can't blame 4e though. It's my group; they were slow in 3.5 too, and it's a little late for me to be realizing that.
(I firmly believe that it is the duty of the GM to provide an atmosphere and game for the party he has, not the party he wishes he had. If this makes him miserable or he can't or won't do it, he should step down.)
(I just sometimes have trouble figuring out what it is I should be giving my group.)
@Cat Hi! Sorry, you walked in on my meltdown.
 
1:14 PM
Mornin' guys!
What would my party have to roll if they wanted to find out stats about humans? Say, berserker and a mage.
 
@TheBW Huh? You might need to give us some m ore context for that.
 
4the edition
And they are elites
Like a party versus my party
If they would be animals I would roll nature. But I dont think that would be apropriate
My party will probably want to find out their info with a roll
Arcana for the mage seams ok, but what to do with the barbarian?
 
@TheBW Ahhhh. I don't know. Dungeoneering maybe?
 
Tough one, isnt it?
I was going for insight since its human iteraction, and what else could tell better about other humans, but I am not sure I should allow it to be used like that
 
@TheBW Honestly, I've never had people ask for a roll to find out the stats for an enemy, so I really don't know.
 
1:24 PM
@somori Is it a weird practice? I allow to know even defenses and hitpoints with hard DC (say 30 for starters)
Or 25
It apears that MM uses Nature checks on humans
With a DC of 15 to 20
 
@TheBW I remember there being checks for monsters to find out what they will do, so it's not all that weird.
 
2:21 PM
@TheBW still nature
humans are natural beings, finding out about their stats is a nature check
@somori I wouldn't give away stats anyways. I'd give general idea of abilities, class and power level at DC 15 and resistances/vulnerabilities and any extra gotchas at 20.
 
@waxeagle Sounds good to me.
 
@TheBW determining the monster knowledge roll has a lot more to do with a creatures origin than power source/role/class etc
 
@waxeagle I think I like this better, since hitpoints are to specific info to find out, but my old GM used to do that, so I still do. I think I will say just general stuff
 
@TheBW tbh HP and defenses are things to be figured out over the course of the encounter, not the outset. (my wife likes to track how much damage we've done over the course of an encounter to try to get a rough idea of bloodied value), but it's not a value the DM just gives us
 
2:37 PM
@waxeagle Some people tried that, but I felt like it made combat that much longer, so I dont encourage it much
 
2:53 PM
There are so many SE networks, how in the world did i miss this one?
A place for RPG questions. <3
 
@William'MindWorX'Mariager Because you haven't studied the list of StackExchange sites?
 
That would seem the obvious reason.
 
@William'MindWorX'Mariager Certainly might be :) Welcome to RPG-land.
 
Thank you. :P I have a feeling I'll enjoy it here.
 
3:15 PM
@William'MindWorX'Mariager welcome!
@TheBW you mean tracking damage? If it's making combat longer they're doing it wrong tbh it should be making combat slightly shorter as it should help you focus fire via a balance between most dangerous and most likely to die.
 
They are tracking all damage
That is the problem
So they realy dont have to
 
@TheBW yeah, our DM uses that as well. We have two other players tracking damage. My wife tracks monster damage, and our cleric tracks PC damage (we keep our own sheets as well, but he wants the easy reference). I haven't found it slows us down at all. But whatever suits
 
@BESW Yes I do. But I cannot edit in what I actually meant.
isnt there a method for rolling NPC stats?
 
3:58 PM
@TheBW I've used the combat tracker from rptools.net before. Works well. The one you linked looks great too.
The RP Tools one is more all purpose I think.
 
@William'MindWorX'Mariager incombat is very 4e specific
 
Yeah, I noticed.
I generally play 4e, so that's perfect for me.
 
4:45 PM
@William'MindWorX'Mariager same here.
 
5:09 PM
@Ernir: you should totally port your necessary magic item list here, I'd upvote that so hard.
 
5:35 PM
@waxeagle Of course, when I say generally, I mean when I get to. For some reason, my friends prefer a homemade system I once made to play some light free-roam roleplaying over a weekend, so we're usually playing that. It's a loose hybrid between Dungeons and Dragons and something called Drakar och Demoner from Sweden.
 
6:13 PM
Leadership annoys the crap outta me sometimes.
and for some reason on a pirate ship we have 15 warlocks serving as a seige crew.
and generic fighters.
few bards sprinkled in.
 
@Novian Leadership annoys me every time it sees play; it's almost always banned in groups that I play in. Absurdly broken, annoying to actually run, stupid feat-for-something-you-should-roleplay, etc. etc. There's really nothing good about the feat.
 
Its a prerequisite to a prestige class I want though.
I leave the "little guys" on the ship anyway.
 
is that the Dread Pirate or Scarlet Corsair or whatever?
one of those was about Leadership IIRC
 
Legendary Captain. Never heard of those two
where are those?
 
uhhh
Stormwrack, probably?
 
6:18 PM
hmm.
 
Complete Adventurer or Complete Scoundrel are also likely spots
 
Scarlet Corsair is Stormwrack.
its not that. thats a rogue pirate
 
unfortunately, the Dread Pirate prestige class requires that you change your name to Roberts
 
Dread Pirate would work for me. if i had 2 more feats and 8 skill points.
trying to figure out the clerics level advancements. do I keep her in cleric or prestige into something. or do I multiclass her.
terrible at clerics
 
Clerics are spellcasters
In the Ten Commandments of Char-Op, "Thou Shalt Not Lose Spellcasting Levels" is First Commandment, and then again the Sixth Commandment because it's that important
that said, the Cleric class offers little-to-nothing unless you're relying on Turn/Rebuke Undead, which you shouldn't probably
so yeah, go for prestige classes
oh well, some Domains do rely on Cleric level; avoid those if you're PrCing out
@Novian what sort of Cleric? Cohort to the Legendary Captain, or?
 
6:30 PM
@KRyan yes though Im not legendary captain yet.
I am probably the weirdest setup for LC ive ever seen
 
well, presumably you're a captain, if not a Legendary one
 
'Wilder 9/ Anarchic Initiate 1
 
so the Cleric's a ship's priest?
 
yep
 
Anarchic Initiate is bizarrely better for Psions than Wilders
it's a really terribly-designed PrC
powerful, but bad design
 
6:31 PM
Eh so what.
I get to keep that nice little manifesting level.
and have a bizzare way of destruction.
 
I just don't like it because it breaks one of the rules of Psionic design – it's got full manifesting – and it also gives a Psion a better version of the Wilder's schtick
kinda makes Wilder pointless
anyway
 
How do is it better?
so*
 
well, first Psions get in easier because of the requirements, which is dumb
second, Wild Surge is... not very good
 
Overchannel or Wildsurge Know. Psionics and Know. Planes.
Wild Surge works for me.
Only enervated once out of 10 wildsurges.
 
Wilders don't get Knowledge (the planes)
 
6:34 PM
I fixed that easy.
 
shouldn't have to
I'm complaining about the class's design
which, like the overwhelming majority of Complete Psionics, is terrible
 
I rather think Psion is terrible myself.
 
it's pretty much strictly better than the Wilder
 
soulknife im not sure about.
 
Soulknife is one of the worst classes in the game
it's special feature is "I have a magic sword"
 
6:36 PM
Even worse than soulborn?
 
(which, you might notice, isn't that special)
 
yeah....
 
the Psychic Attack thing is close to useless, with how many things are immune to it and the actions necessary to charge it
yeah, it's probably worse than Soulborn
 
....Wow..
 
which, yeah, is definitely saying something
a lot of people suggest allowing people to play a Soulborn//Soulknife in a non-gestalt game
personally, I call that still underpowered
 
6:38 PM
Still think that its retarded that our Artificer killed a bearded devil with a silver peice and a magic sling.
 
Artificer is one of the most powerful classes in the game, though I'm not sure how he accomplished that unless by DM fiat
sure, the silver would pierce the thing's DR
 
after it and our Warblade had both dealt massive damage blows to each other.
 
but a sling shot shouldn't be doing all that much damage
 
its got magics on it.
 
well, sure
 
6:39 PM
forgot the properties.
and that thing was down pretty far.
 
Devil-bane is likely
yeah, OK, so he just got the final shot
that's not all that special
 
Its still retarded.
 
Artificers are absurdly powerful though'
 
Yeah.
'hes got 3 contructs dog things
made em all himself
 
never really bothered much with those things
 
6:40 PM
and another construct just to do item creation for him.
 
I'm sure it can be done well
yeah, the Dedicated Wright is a kind of must-have for an Artificer
 
he wants to build a sheild golem when he is high enough level
Prismatic golems are too dangerous i told him.
 
anyway, Psions get more powers known, a larger list, a more-generally-useful primary stat, and a skill list that allows them easier entry to a lot of things
Wilders get Wild Surge, which... Overchannel is better
 
Overchannel deals damage.....
 
Psychic Enervation is just crippling
you can heal damage
you cannot get your turn back
 
6:42 PM
@KRyan Not if it doesnt happen
 
@Novian which is pure luck and cannot be relied on
it's only a matter of time before it happens when it really cannot
 
yeah....
Surging Euphoria combined with Euphoric Reduction can be nice.
 
sooner or later Psychic Enervation is going to get a Wilder killed
 
saved my ass yesterday.
 
Surging Euphoria is way too small
Euphoric Reduction is what, a feat?
 
6:44 PM
Yes.
 
yeah, found it
 
DR 3/- for Wild surge value turns.
I think.
 
still pretty small
and too risky
DR can be gotten in larger/more permanent/less risky forms
it caps at DR 9/–
 
Got one that works at non-Epic levels?
 
which is just not a big deal for a 20th-level character
 
6:46 PM
and doesnt cost me an arm and a leg?
 
there are tons of them
DR is just a thing, it's all over
hell, Manifesters don't care about armor
 
This one does.
Without armor I might die.
 
I meant, armor doesn't interfere with manifesting
 
no it doesnt.
 
so you can wear Adamantine Full-plate if you want for some
that's /Adamantine, but shrug
 
6:47 PM
I said without costing me an arm and a leg.
 
I've never really bothered with DR
as a manifester, you really should just not be letting them attack you
 
not much of a choice if they make their saves
 
you should have layered defenses that come into play long before AC and HP
staying out of reach, miss chances, etc.
 
Havnt got any powers for miss chance.
 
well, you should, is my point
also, vigor and share pain with a Psicrystal is an amazing setup
 
6:50 PM
Name one and Ill grab it.
im in the midst of leveling up my character and Ive got like 2 powers to select. as long as their below 5th
wait I can get one 5th
 
I'm not really sure off the top of my head
my point is more that a manifester has options beyond merely taking a hit and trying to mitigate it
 
Time Hop was weirdly effective for that.
 
time hop is awesome
 
Used it on a wounded ally to keep him outta the fight.
 
dimension hop is also awesome
 
6:53 PM
Couldnt heal himslelf in there but he wasnt gonna die.
Dimension Hop?
 
@Novian can see that in an emergency, but most of the time you want to take out threats more than you want to protect allies; you'll prevent more damage/risks by eliminating threats than you can by trying to cover allies
@Novian Complete Psionics, swift-action teleportation
 
....oooooh
 
it's only available on the Freedom Mantle, though, which means using Expanded Knowledge to get it
 
:)
 
speaking of which, you should try to maybe retrain as an Educated Wilder
 
6:55 PM
Beat you to that.
 
Educated Wilder (among other things)
 
I am An educated wilder
 
oh, well sweet
 
where are mantles listed?
 
I'm not certain that dimension hop is the best bet, but it's definitely a good one
I dunno, it's in the Table of Contents
I don't usually memorize page numbers
well, don't go out of my way to
I know Tome of Battle pretty well cuz I use it so often
also the Pact Magic section of Tome of Magic because I did a really, really extensive Prestige Class for Binders
 
6:58 PM
I see Disciplines but not mantles
 
it's definitely in there, they're like Psionic Domains
Ardents use them
 
ah I accidentally had EPH instead of CP
open
 
oh, well then yeah
XPH doesn't have Mantles
I don't know why, but the Expanded Psionics Handbook is always abbreviated XPH; I think EPH might refer to a different book
 
both books on screen one open turned out to be the wrong one.
I care not for other's logic. Expanded starts with E so thats how I abreviate it
Is mindwipe any good?
 
communication is important; without the context of a discussion about 3.5 psionics, I would not have recognized "EPH" as Expanded Psionics Handbook
don't think so, but don't recall off the top of my head
high-level offensive [Mind-Affecting] things generally are not
 
7:02 PM
yeah and it only deals 2 neg levels.
 
too many things are immune, too many things have really high Will saves
yeah, I think CPsi's got a psionic enervation analogue if you want to go that route
enervation, of course, is insane
 
Enervation is?
 
a Core spell?
ray that deals 1d4 Negative Levels from a 4th-level slot
it's got no save
just a ranged touch attack
 
oh yes the ray of metacheese.
 
which is preposterous
@Novian that's the one
 
7:05 PM
dont you usually Split chain that sort of ray?
 
well, that would be the usual route to absurd power, yeah
Arcane Thesis (enervation), Split Ray, Chain Spell, maybe something stupid like Echo Spell
Twin, if you're going all out
 
Arcane thesis?
 
oh, and Invisible Spell, Sanctum Spell, some other crap for the sake of abusing Arcane Thesis
Complete Arcane feat that allows you to do rude things with a single spell
reduces the cost of metamagic by 1 per feat
 
hmm......*Evil Grin*
 
so like
if you apply Empower (+2), Still Spell (+1), Silent Spell (+1), Invisible Spell (+0), you get +(2-1)+(1-1)+(1-1)+(0-1)=+0
 
7:07 PM
thought it couldent reduce to 0
 
most reducers can't
Arcane Thesis can, because it's stupid
pre-errata, it could even reduce below 0
so you could prepare spells in slots lower than their normal level
 
and the result is a nonsomatic nonverbal spell. what does Invisible do?
 
makes the spell's effect invisible
so no black ray for enervate
a solid fog that you cannot see
unless you use see invisibility which is then weird
 
meaning what in terms of mechanics.
 
the spell is invisible
those are the mechanics
I dunno, maybe the Spellcraft DC is harder or something
 
7:09 PM
why is the invisible ray more advantageous
 
it's not, except that it's normally a +0 feat
with Arcane Thesis it's -1
now, because of the errata, you cannot have the resulting spell be below 0
but you can use that -1 to offset some other metamagic
below +0*
it's dumb
combining Arcane Thesis with Incantatrix is one of the most tried-and-true routes to stupid, game-breaking power
 
Makes a Invisible Nosave and Lose.
 
alongside polymorph effects and action economy destruction
the most important limitation on what a character can do are his actions; things that give you more actions or let you take actions you otherwise couldn't are automatically very powerful
this is why contingency, celerity, and time stop are three of the most powerful spells
 
like Schism but.....with that nasty -6 ML
 
why synchronicity is the most stupidly broken power written
and Linked Power is such an amazingly good feat
standard actions as a swift, or even an immediate
and yeah, schism is up there too, but at least with schism they recognized that it was stupid-powerful and put limits and penalties on it
I'd argue these things are even worse than heavy scry'n'die abuse
though of course the 'n'die half of that usually involves some kind of action economy abuse and could very well involve metamagic or polymorph abuse
 
7:20 PM
hmm I could get Plane shift(Psionic)
Screw with my DM a bit
Screwing with the Church of the Silver Flame would be much more fun but I cant do that.
 
 
2 hours later…
9:11 PM
2 days ago, by Martin Sojka
That's why LARP organisers take weapon checks very seriously. :)
@MartinSojka, A friend of mine told me that after an event, they were cleaning up around a forest, and they found an arrow stuck in a tree. :P
They also did a weapon check on a Ducttape Machette. Turned out that it was an actual machette wrapped in a thin layer of ducttape. They hit a table with it and it went through the ducttape and got lodged in the table.
Needless to say the weapon got confiscated. :P
 
10:06 PM
@TheBW I would use Nature for basic human information (as you guys established), OR: Arcana for things about the mage, and Nature for things about the barbarian (barbs are primal).
But RAW I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be just Nature because they're human.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:11 PM
@William'MindWorX'Mariager Yep. Crazy.
 

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