I have a question about Wilders Wild Surge ability. the way I read it is it effectivly increases ML on all effects and Augments the power by the wild surge value. I.E. making a 1D6 Energy ray a 4D6(with wild surge +3) energy ray, Am I reading this correct?

or does it only increase effective manifester for numeric values like distance and maximum augment ammount?

The manifester level boost gives her the ability to augment her powers to a higher** degree than she otherwise could; however, she pays no extra power point for this wild surge. **Instead, the additional 1 power point that would normally be required to augment the power is effectively supplied by the wild surge. **

is what makes me interpret this way

forgive the grammar

although even if the way I read it is true I might wanna see if there are feats that mitigate the effect of enervation

@waxeagle I'm not sure how possible it is to help him out. There are no rules for simulating real-world physics, but I can't think of anywhere that says don't worry about it or use cinematic physics.

@somori that leaves it to DM discretion whether cartoon or real physics should be used.

I'd vote cartoon every single time

@waxeagle Shame there's no guidelines for that. Wil E. Coyote is a little bit far for my taste :P

@somori not that far, but I don't want to have to do the math either.

I like math, but I don't want to have to take 10 minutes doing complex physics/calculus and then have the DM approve it.

(although tbh in my group that wouldn't be out of line, our CoC game often evolved into esoteric gun law discussions)

@waxeagle Same here. But considering that the "it works in the real world" attitude has been around for quite some time, I;m surprised more of the detailed simulationist games haven't made the handwavium a little more explicit.

I stand by my earlier statement. Silly Peoples D&D no care for your physics.

Hey guys in D&D 4e can you use more than one group skill check in a skill challenge?

@LukeBurgin wouldnt know.

wasnt there someone here good with psionics?

@LukeBurgin honestly, I'd rather see you designate secondary skills that give a bonus to primaries in the skill challenge. Aid Another is a funny mechanic

@waxeagle yeah but I never use it anyway. never seen it used either.

For example, a short section on ruling clever science based ideas - if you learnt it in middle school science or before then it's pretty much sure to work. If you need a PhD and a million dollar research grant to prove it, then it's probably not going to.

@Novian Sorry Novian, I was taking issues one at a time. I want to work out what a good answer to "I've got a clever idea about using a 0.9c railgun" might be :)

@somori NP Was waiting my turn.

I am patient and have nothing to do. I can wait.

.....a 0.9c Railgun? either thats genius or crazy

@Novian As far this question goes, yes the wild surge increases your manifester level and gives you free power points to spend on augmenting it. If you can't spend all those points (if you had an odd Wild Surge value and can only spend even numbers of points on augments) then you lose them.

ah I see.

Thanks. PSYCHIC ARTILLERYMAN AWAY!!!!

TO.....Uh look up some way to mitigate Enervation

@Novian In the real world, it's more of a fusion bomb waiting to go off. In the world of Schlock Mercenary it's just another step in the arms-race. In D&D it probably just won't work.

@somori Tick Tick Boom

@somori it relies on the turn dynamic, essentially lineing up peasants to pass an item down a line, because a round is 6 seconds, enough peasents and you've surpassed light speed...this obviously is impossible in the real world and is an abuse of an abstraction mechanic. I'd say the simple logic would be stating that a set of NPCs gets one set of actions

@waxeagle Sorry, wasn't thinking of the peasent version of the railgun, more the magic-assisted version of the magnet-style variety.

@somori ah, that's totally possible..i guess...with enough mages

(that's always the rub, right? finding enough bored mages)

@waxeagle The even easier way to get into the situation is pre-Errata Chuck throwing a rock at someone.

@somori I still don't speak 3.5 :(

Sorry, it was something in the referenced question. A particular build could use abilities that created an effectively-infinite loop to increase movement speed. Somebody who can run at the speed of light throws a rock at someone else while travelling at light speed means you get the relativistic baseball.

@somori gotcha

Hmmph, if i had the ability I would certainly vote to close the original question as it stands. There's just too much debate possible about how to answer it depending on what assumptions about simulation you make.

Yeah me to, so you do a secondary skill check with a harder DC and you gain a bonus for the next primary wax eagle? :)

@LukeBurgin no need for the DC to be harder, it can even be easier. And yeah it can either be a permanent bonus or just apply to the next check (it can also only apply personally, or apply to the whole party).

Still cant decide if its totally suicidal to have a base land speed of 5 or incredibly funny

Thanks personally= just to the person who gained it or anyone? :)

@LukeBurgin personally would be just the person who rolled the check

@Novian depends on the benefits returned for the sacrifice. For instance no ecumbrance, no speed reduction and second wind as a minor for a dwarf are huge benefits.

the armor I want would slow even a dwarf

the benefit returned would be an extra feat from the slow flaw.

and getting in and out of the armor the way Ive got it set up is a move action either way I think

:P

@Novian are we talking base speed of 5sq or 5ft?

I am the PSYCHIC ARTILLERYMAN!

5 ft or 1 square

@Novian aaaaaaaaah. That makes all the difference then :)

Got it thanks :)

(4e dwarf base is 5sq)

@waxeagle ah

@LukeBurgin just a heads up, either use an @ reply or use the reply button on the right hand side to thread chat. T hat will help us keep track and will ping us if you want to address us specifically

of course I could just drop Drwarven Armor Prof. and take the penalties.

although one of my more attack based powers is a ranged touch.

might not like that.

My character is Paranoid. and squishy

not super paranoid but likes to be well protected.

so Hes gonna wear +1 Called Mountain Plate(With Quick Escape modifications)

Costly that is.

makes in and out easy though.

@wax eagle got it :)

but to have 3 feats I need a flaw.

wait, Im level 6 how many feats again......

Nvm 1 for first and 2 more one at 3 and 6.

I dont need a flaw.

but I could just to get euphoric reduction.

and one last non psionics question for now.....Is there any way to get a cohort without Leadership. Leadership is painful.

its ugly and stupid and other childish insults.

@Novian Yes, the total cost of a power cannot be more than your manifester level (base + augments).

@LukeBurgin As much as I love the idea of skill challenges, they're a little unwieldy the way the DMG presents them --as you're noticing. Also it's very hard to predict how hard they're going to be for your party to succeed at.

....Unfortunately, if you use a custom homebrew variant like that, it'll make it hard to ask questions about it on this site. I'd be happy to talk with you about my experiences though.

(Um. The site seems to be down for now. Hrm. I can upload my copy of the system or you can wait for the site to resurrect.)

@somori that means 6 or 7. 7 if I make my next level another wilder level. The ECL of our campaign is 7 and I was going to prestige but now Im not so sure.

Is there any known way to get a cohort without the agony of leadership?

@Novian What would you prestige into?

@Novian Don't know, but don't think so.

@Novian Undead Leadership?

dunno. Thrallherd is iffy. Anarchic Initiate is DanPowrd....

lesse what else is there.

@BESW isnt that the same?

@Novian Well, what do you consider to be the 'agony' of leadership?

having to micromanage all the little guys.

@Novian I'm pretty sure you can tell them to go screw themselves, and it's less eyebrow-raising if they're zombies.

I'd have to check though. If you're stuck with them...

Why do you want a cohort?

....I suck at Melee. and healing.

and alot of other things. Like carrying stuff.

Im good at being a wilder and thats pretty much it.

@Novian You don't have to do everything yourself. Diverse specialisations is part of 3.x

There's a 7,000g whistle that lets you turn a buried corpse into a faithful zombie that serves you until destroyed. Usable 1/week, no more than 2 zombies at once.

I have 950 gp unless I can resolve this "I have to buy the ship issue"

@Novian And frankly, I'm sure that you can handwave all the little guys. Your GM may even thank you for accepting a little down-powering.

I Suppose I could take a flaw and Tell my GM to skip the little Guys.

@Novian Will he not consider the "make the first adventure us stealing a ship" proposal?

Cant talk to him atm

the session is also tommorow.

950g will buy you eight and a half years of trained hireling.

...and no tents or rations

@Novian Time to take a leaf out of the military planners books. Create a solution for each possible scenario.

wait...I have a ship!!!

Im a Pirate!

Who cares!

What level are trained hirelings?

How's your charisma?

Mod is +4

I always put my highest stat where its needed.

Very nice. (You need to make Charisma checks to get them into dangerous situations, but you can offer double or quadruple to get a +5 or +10 on the check.)

hmm Screw Multiclassing. Ill just take my 7th level in Wilder for now.

I'm looking up mercenaries in the A&E now.

More PP. and Wild Surge +3

@Novian Yeah, probably better than level 1 of a prestige class.

Much better.

Hirelings are generally level 1, but mercenaries are whatever level you can afford.

mwahahahah!

How do they handle XP gain.

none?

You can get level 5 mercenaries for roughly 10sp/day.

They demand more money if you make them go first into dungeons and that kind of thing.

that is the one saving grace of Leadership is Cohorts have separate XP gain.

I'm not seeing any rules for XP.

Hmm....

@Novian Of course, Leadership also represents your ability to lead a large organisation.

If you hire a group of mercenaries with a leader, they get +1 AC and attacks.

Im the captain of a pirate crew. I already lead an orgainization

Mercs are in the A&E?

@Novian Yup.

@Novian A tiny one. Leadership would get you more ships.

p65

Cohorts with Leadership are also fun.

Leadership aaaaalll the way down.

.....I already (If I cant Steal it) had to pay half my Starting wealth to get a ship

(Sadly, he can't do that until at least level 8)

I cannot afford a feat.

Level 7 + 4 Cha mod I think I could do decent.

Cohorts can't be more than your level -2, and Leadership has a level 6 prereq.

I think it's worth pointing out that Leadership is a prereq for Great Captain, which lets you aid other for your entire crew at once.

Shit. Just thought of something bad.....My rank is captain My Flaw is slow.......NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

@Novian Another option is to get everybody to chip in. Or just to tell the GM, this is a game about Pirates. It doesn't make sense to have to buy something that isn't usable all the time.

Great Captain...........

@Novian Peg leg?

Might want to consider that.

@BESW no just naturally slow.

@BESW I got extra power, all I had to do was cut off my leg.

@Novian I mean, flavor it that way. Be Long John Silver!

@somori This seems reasonable. Yes.

Vecna's Hand, Eye, and Leg.

Captain slow is the derrogatory nickname for a M&M character I had who ran at a speed of 10MPH with the Power super speed. He was actually slower than the rest of the party.

His Superhero name was Lazarus. The DM kept calling him Captain Slow. the name just stuck after it was first made.

There's also the lovely prestige class Legendary Captain that requires Leadership.

@BESW Although as a psionic, it should be a crystal leg. Wait..... a psicrystal leg :D

@somori Now we're sailing dangerously close to Disney waters, bucko.

.....I dont have a Psicrystal

@BESW how?

@Novian Maybe not. But you could. It'd be especially interesting if it was an Overconfident crystal.

Magipunk + sky pirates = Treasure Planet

@somori hmm....an Overconfident Peg Leg.

"The leg I lost trying to jump over a crocodile pit keeps trying to tell me to jump over bigger pits!"

@BESW .....Shit your right.

Arrr! Be steerin' wide of Injunction Shoals, an' keep a sharp eye fer law sharks!

Profession. I think I need some ranks in it.

Profession (sailor) at the very least.

at my current level the number of points I could put into it is 10.

Knowledge (geography) might also be good.

@BESW ....Cross Class skills.

Well, you only need 5 in geography to be a Legendary Captain.

(8 in sailor)

I have Knowledge Psionics. What do I even need that for.....

probably need Psicraft more.

hmm at my current level I could meet the prereqs of legendary captain and At level 8 take it. But im a sky pirate the class was made for water pirates.

Do sky pirates still use wind?

Dunno Eberon seems to use elementals.

@Novian Yeah, skyships use bound Air elementals.

You'll miss out on the bonus to spotting and avoiding aquatic hazards. All the rest should still apply.

@Novian Trains and cars use bound earth elementals.

(Weather Gauge might be a hard sell, but even if you use elementals to power the ship, you should still be able to use the weather to your advantage.)

And seriously, if you're going to be in any ship-to-ship combat, Legendary Captain is amazing

Ill look into it.

Extra +20% speed, +2 dodge bonus to your ship's AC, re-roll 1/day, cumulative Leadship level bonuses, mass cure light wounds on the entire ship 1/day...

not the class I just read that

Wonder how they would react to having their captain timehopped into the future during a ship battle.

?

enemies.

Psionic Power Time hop.

Pretty much puts them into the future by 1Rnd/Lvl

Cute.

at level 7 wilder Hes 7 rounds into the future.

unless I modify it with power points.

then stuff.

I cant modify that power Much though.

@Novian Bear in mind he does get a DC15 wisdom check to come back each round... so you can only be totally sure he's out for one.

yeah, and then he cant act till his next turn after he comes back.

more like 2 round disable.

Might not even keep that power. might go with energy wall or something. who knows.

I also wonder if Deja Vu repeats the crits of death urge or just the attack.

When I get 4th level powers thats gonna screw with people.

crits are supposed to represent vital areas being struck so Logically he should hit the same spot because of Deja Vu.

I chuckle at my use of logic to explain D&D.

D&D no care.

@Novian You want to be careful with "logic" there.

@somori yup

But it is true is it not?

It's slightly more reasonable to use 'realism' or 'logic' to justify something in 3.5 than in 4e, but not by much.

Err, without rereading the power, I'm not sure.

Crits do represent Vital areas being struck(I think) or harder hits. Deja Vu makes you repeat your last action on the turn that power is manifested.

you act exactly like you did last turn. unless you cant. then you dont do anything

you would attack yourself again at least I just want to know if it also crits because it did last round.

@Novian Yeah, you act the same as you did last turn (move forward and attempt toattack) but you have to make all the rolls again.

ah so the automatic crit from Death urge wouldnt replay?

Agreed. I would rule that 'repeat the last action' includes repeating the action of rolling the dice.

Death urge makes the target take a full round to kill itself whatever way it can. If it has a weapon it attacks itself and its an automatic critical hit.

But I'd have to look at all the specific powers and features involved to make a more accurate ruling, and it would be my ruling, not your DM's.

Ewwww. That's a horrible edge-casey combination.

@BESW I can Adopt your Opinion in my argument and plead my case at least.

Death Urge and Deja Vu

not the worst application of Death Urge Ive seen

@Novian "Some guy on the Internet said..."

@somori thank you

@BESW Please I can Word it better than that.

Okay, yeah. I have a ruling and you're not going to like it.

Its evil to even consider it?

Strangely, yeah, there's a thread on this on ENWorld

Scenario: you cast Death Urge on Slimey Bob and he takes a full-round action to attack himself twice. He automatically hits and crits with both attacks because of the effect of Death Urge.

Next round you cast Déjà Vu on Slimey Bob, forcing him "to repeat the actions [ he ] took on [ his ] previous turn."

@somori cant read page 2

The action he took was a full-round action to attack himself twice. But he is no longer doing it as a result of the Death Urge compulsion, and so the automatic hit and crit effects of Death Urge no longer applies, as its effect has worn off.

He would then just attack himself and have to roll as normal?

Thus Slimey Bob attacks himself again, twice, as a full-round action, but he must attack (and roll damage if he hits) normally.

still pretty potent.

There is an edge case of this edge case.

I think this is one that's worth asking, there doesn't seem to be much of a reference out on the web.

Will do. Although BESW does make a point that he would need to roll again normally.

Which is if you manage (through quickening or whatever the psionic equivalent is) to cast Déjà Vu immediately after Death Urge on the same round.

Why Deja Vu affects the previous turn, I on the first turn cast death urge. after its effect resolves in the next round I manifest Deja Vu on round 3.

Because Death Urge explicitly has a duration of "1 round," but the auto hit/crit effects are phrased so be only part of the full-round attack compulsed by the spell, and the second full-round attack is not compulsed by that spell even though the spell's duration has not yet expired.

@Novian Ah, gotcha. I didn't read that carefully. Disregard my last statements.

Manifesting them on the same turn would work differently.

and strangely

Would be a bad idea, because Déjà Vu wouldn't make him repeat the action he just took.

I think Ill put this question up for others anyhow. Never know when someone else needs this knowlege.

@Novian Yeah, and that's just my reading of it.

@BESW I read it the same way pretty much.

'Ima go eat dinner. Cya later

Ta!

@Gamer_chic are you the same person as @Gamer_Chic? I think that might get confusing...