Vyxal

Vyxal Bot

00:08

Steffan153 approved on PR #1278 (Vyxal/Vyxal)

Steffan153 requested changes on PR #1278 (Vyxal/Vyxal): "we should also add some for the digraphs that use typable chars."

Steffan

Apl poggers

in The APL Orchard, 3 hours ago, by Richard

ok done. Just 14 votes now? We must be able to do it better. And almost half of these languages I do not take serious (including Basic and Pascal)

emanresu A

We must rally ourselves

lyxal

Those unoriginal nerds

Adam saw our commotion about week.golf and immediately announced it in APL orchard

I've got one more source of votes I can rally

But I'll leave that source until it's truly needed

Steffan

00:23

The third stage is the top two with most votes, so I think we're good

but if we do make it to stage 3, we still have to vote against apl

lyxal

And that's a problem

Because the discord server is full of old golfers

And they stick with what they know

Steffan

we might be the only ones that actually use it

emanresu A

If we get far enough ahead we could get everyone to vote for say, J and possibly kick APL off the runnings

lyxal

@emanresuA that just leads to the same problem

emanresu A

True

lyxal

00:35

You'd want something like prolog as the opposition in phase 3

emanresu A

Yeah

Unrelated String

i feel like the real solution is to just convince the guy that holding a vote to add one language every week is a terrible idea :P

lyxal

One language every month

Unrelated String

holy fuck

lyxal

And yes, I fully agree

Only one a month is inefficient as all hell

emanresu A

00:36

^^^^^

Unrelated String

so it's WAY too slow to add all the languages that are worth adding, but once that is mostly dealt with it'll just keep adding languages whether multiple people care or not

lyxal

I know

Don't worry I've thought this through at length

I can give a whole bunch of reasons why it's beneficial to just add the major golfing languages straight away

Unrelated String

keep people happy and keep things fresh

lyxal

But I can't exactly do the convincing because it could seem like I just want to cut in line language wise

emanresu A

@lyxal Just add every lang straight away

Unrelated String

00:39

it's hard to think of reasons not to have already added apl and vyxal

lyxal

@emanresuA That's true too

Unrelated String

considering how ancient apl golf is and how large the vyxal gold community is

lyxal

Vyxal gold™, the premium teir subscription of vyxal

Unrelated String

get exclusive access to the latest updates seconds before they're committed to the public repository

lyxal

You get patches in real-time as we write them :p

emanresu A

00:42

Most of the time you'd get unmatched parenthisis errors

lyxal

@UnrelatedString just on that - it'd be a good idea to add a golfing language that is friendly to those not exactly the best at golf

Unrelated String

oh yeah that too

lyxal

The current language selection is already dominated by those who've had years of experience in praclang golfing

So for someone who is less experienced, there's not much availability in terms of language choice

Because all the major praclangs have already been golfed to optimisation

Unrelated String

and having a golf-optimized builtin set also lowers the barrier to entry in terms of knowing idioms for those kinds of things

lyxal

Exactly

emanresu A

00:46

Because there aren't idioms, just builtins

lyxal

APL, while good for new users solving practical problems, isn't the best for new users to golf with

Neither is jelly

emanresu A

And we have some extremely overengineered tooling

lyxal

You'd need something like vyxal, 05ab1e, golfscript or pyth (and maybe husk) for new users to have a chance to solve problems

Unrelated String

how do i even navigate this website without an account

emanresu A

You don't

Unrelated String

00:49

i tried registering with an address with a plus tag because i don't entirely trust this guy and the verification email just never got sent lmao

lyxal

Just link SE lol :p

Unrelated String

i have no idea what "access your private actions and information" entails but it sounds slightly out of scope :P

lyxal

There's a discord for week.golf if y'all want to suggest the add more than one a month option there: discord.gg/zrEa6MghUm

As I said, I can't exactly do it because of conflicts of interest

emanresu A

01:45

Honestly I dislike the challenges.

They're all chameleon challenges and they'd recieve a bunch of downvotes here

Seggan

^^ ^

@emanresuA still did

emanresu A

huh okay

lyxal

@emanresuA tbh same

That's why they need a golfing language with a whole bunch of built-ins to solve challenges with

APL doesn't do that very well

@emanresuA exactly this

You go to do one aspect of the challenge only to find that "hey you actually need to do another unrelated task first"

And it's annoying

Because it means that the majority of the bytes are boilerplate dealing with the inconvenience of the annoying task

Also I bet SBCS languages will be scored as utf-8 instead of SBCS

So rip to any fractional byte languages wanting to be added to week.golf

emanresu A

@lyxal frick.

Perhaps we should create a core version of Vyxal that's ASCII-only

lyxal

Well by the time you've done that, you'll probably end up with the same score you would using utf-8

Also,that's a planned feature for v3

emanresu A

01:56

huh okay

Seggan

@lyxal i couldnt and had to do github

lyxal

Jun 19 at 7:41, by lyxal

okay so for version 3, I was thinking of making it so that every character can be typed using # digraphs made of ascii chars

@Seggan odd, I couldn't get github working

Seggan

@lyxal nooooo

lets just hope the creator doesnt read our criticism

lyxal

@Seggan the way the chameleon challenges are going and the fact that hard coding solutions were deleted by the owner in the first week, utf-8 everything seems to be a natural conclusion

And obviously languages like Fig can still be added

It's just that they won't have their full potential realised

Seggan

@lyxal wdym by "hard coding solutions were deleted by the owner in the first week"?

emanresu A

02:04

Perhaps we should just leave this alone. I'm not sure this is a place we want to be.

lyxal

@Seggan some solutions must have been hard coding the answers and the owner just removed those submissions

Straight up yeeted them

@emanresuA it's worth the advertising and the investment in the long term success of the site

Seggan

ah

lyxal

It may be a little bad at first, but it has potential

emanresu A

Perhaps it will.

Wait...

Unrelated String

yeah honestly i would try not to do anything that prolongs the life of that site

emanresu A

02:08

^

Seggan

The Unrelated String has spoken

hyper-neutrino

i still got a ping from the hyperping

Unrelated String

it's not called a hyper ping for nothing

hyper-neutrino

except it just took me a few more seconds to find where the ping was cuz it got discarded

lyxal

I also still got a ping

hyper-neutrino

02:10

@lyxal wait did the owner announce that or how did you find out

lyxal

@UnrelatedString the way I see it, being the first golfing language on there would cement that language as being the OG OP language that everyone uses. In the short term, it's a bad idea to invest, but long term, it could be beneficial

@hyper-neutrino discord conversation

hyper-neutrino

hm

I would not manipulate the submission list without a very good reason and being very transparent about it

also if it's utf-8 it's possible to just use bytes 0 to 255 for vyxal right?

wait i'm dumb that's not how utf-8 works

emanresu A

@hyper-neutrino Weird

lyxal

I think someone was directly accessing the test cases and outputting the corresponding result

Unrelated String

but yeah maybe part of this is just subconscious bias against non-fluent english ~~and the tokyo ghoul pfp~~ but i just don't have the feeling that this can turn out well

emanresu A

02:13

@hyper-neutrino Oh wait I think I got mixed up lol

Moving stuff to rooms people can't access stops that from notifying them I think, but it appears it doesn't stop pings

lyxal

@UnrelatedString I think it's worth a try for at least another month

Besides it's not the first of its kind lol

Unrelated String

lol

lyxal

There's other one challenge a week sites that have vyxal

emanresu A

What?

(unless you count codidact)

Unrelated String

oh yeah reminds me the guy's github has a link to that "codingame" thing
i remember we've had some weird experiences with people who came here from there

lyxal

02:17

@emanresuA emkc.org/contests/88/parking-lot

It has vyxal 2.4.1 available

emanresu A

Huh okay

Is it sbcs or utf?

lyxal

Utf-8 baby

emanresu A

:/

lyxal

For all sbcs languages on there too

emanresu A

I kinda want to create my own site

~~and write it in vyxal~~

lyxal

02:19

@UnrelatedString isn't that the clash of code site used in the code.golf (not cgcc) discord?

Unrelated String

i have no idea

oh yeah i think there was also an incident with someone lifting a challenge from something called clash of code

emanresu A

Even with attribution that's probably a bad idea

Steffan

03:11

codingame has a golf thing in it

two other modes too

i forget

emanresu A

Huh, checked the updated corous and the most used element is now ; lol

Steffan

that's not an element tho

emanresu A

I know lol

(it uses the lexer, not the parser)

Thanks @lyxal for updating that btw

Steffan

What on earth, I added ÞT like a few weeks ago and it has 15 uses???!?!?!??!!!?!!1111!?

lyxal

How many of those are from when it was transpose though?

Steffan

03:23

oh it used to be transpose. nvm

lyxal

Not one of my best ideas tbh

In hindsight it should have been a monograph from the start

emanresu A

Idea: We add a "current Vyxal version" tag to online interpreter permalinks

It's just metadata, and doesn't affect anything else

Unrelated String

smart

emanresu A

03:40

There's currently a /version thing but that's the most recent commit hash

Which isn't particularly helpful

Steffan

it would also be nice if you could run older versions. we can disable versions with ACEs :P

but idk

lyxal

As much as that's a good idea, the limitations of Pythonanywhere prevent that

Which is why I'm really looking forward to just hosting on github pages with scala to js

Steffan

is heroku any better?

we should really just find better hosting, spin up a docker container, and enable sympy lol

lyxal

We can enable Sympy by just filtering quotation marks out of strings

Steffan

...then we might as well do that right now

what takes so long?

lyxal

03:50

@Steffan but also you gotta remember the fact that when it comes to hosting a backend, I really don't know what I'm doing

@Steffan just considering whether or not it's worth working on symvy

It's been something I've been thinking about for a while

Steffan

we could just filter out quotation marks while we wait months for u to decide

on the other hand, we can't just filter out quotation marks. that won't do it.

you can use ord and stuff

lyxal

Dang

Didn't think of that

Filter out ord too then

And chr

Steffan

lol, then use bytes

lyxal

Filter out bytes

Steffan

there's zillions of other ways lol

lyxal

03:53

Or uppercase the string

Steffan

man that is a terrible idea and I love it

but what about expressions with x and y

lyxal

Lowercase after evaluating

Steffan

maybe just cook up a super hueg regex about what we can do and what we can't

lyxal

That or transliterate with non-normalising Unicode characters

Steffan

look over this: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/209734/… so many ways to get out.

lyxal

03:59

Sounds like symvy is needed after all

emanresu A

CMC: Find a character with all five digraph extensions

There are many 4s, but (afaik) only one 5

Unrelated String

found it :p

emanresu A

very clever way of saying

:O copilot made a guess that was correct

Next thing we know it'll be in charge of Vyxal

Steffan

found with a script using parsed_yaml.js

lyxal

@UnrelatedString very clever way of saying you found it :p

emanresu A

04:10

ninja;d

emanresu A

04:35

Could y'all come have another look at this?

Vyxal Bot

chunkybanana created branch Vyxal/yeet-oeis

chunkybanana opened PR #1310 (Vyxal/Vyxal) (Vyxal:yeet-oeis → Vyxal:main): Yeet OEIS

chunkybanana deleted branch Vyxal/fix-a-test-case-for-ḭ

Lyxal approved on PR #1310 (Vyxal/Vyxal)

emanresu A

05:16

Wait what dammit

→ 1 message moved to Trash

I saved a draft.

I'm using gists from now on

Vyxal Bot

Lyxal created branch Vyxal/fix-a-little-issue-with-split-and-keep-delimiter

Lyxal opened PR #1311 (Vyxal/Vyxal) (Vyxal:fix-a-little-issue-with-split-and-keep-delimiter → Vyxal:main): Make `vy_eval` account for fractions and make split and keep delimiter

chunkybanana approved on PR #1311 (Vyxal/Vyxal): "lgtm"

lyxal

only 7 more failing tests to go

emanresu A

I'll be very happy if we can fix them all before the next release

And thank you so much for putting so much time into this

Remember to look after yourself, too :)

lyxal

@emanresuA dw I am

this is me getting my mojo back after just not being able to even touch code for 12 days

Vyxal Bot

Lyxal created branch Vyxal/change-some-tests-for-replace-first-occurance

Lyxal opened PR #1312 (Vyxal/Vyxal) (Vyxal:change-some-tests-for-replace-first-occurance → Vyxal:main): Change some tests for `øḞ`

chunkybanana approved on PR #1312 (Vyxal/Vyxal): "lgbt"

emanresu A

05:27

Oops

Trying to think of an algorithm for set intersection with two infinite lists

Vyxal Bot

Lyxal created branch Vyxal/change-some-tests-for-replace-nth-occurence

Lyxal opened PR #1313 (Vyxal/Vyxal) (Vyxal:change-some-tests-for-replace-nth-occurence → Vyxal:main): Change some tests for `øṄ`

lyxal

4 more to go

5 actually because I'm considering re-working one of the decisions about types I made

Vyxal Bot

chunkybanana approved on PR #1313 (Vyxal/Vyxal): "Loookfs goodddi to oo ememmmeeee e!!1!!"

lyxal

no, 4

what should "12" ∪ 12 be?

last night I though ["1", "2", 1, 2]

but now because of øḞ and øṄ I'm thinking ["1", "2"]

emanresu A

That ... sorta makes sense

But honestly I'd prefer to define it as undefined

Which prompted this:

in The Nineteenth Byte, Jul 1 at 2:10, by emanresu A

Do golflangs need heterogenous lists?

lyxal

05:39

I think ["1", "2", 1, 2]

because you can S on 12 if you want ["1", "2"]

meaning the last 4 items of #1164 are all easy

because they're all the same type of issue

at least I think so

emanresu A

IMO, this just doesn't particularly matter

lyxal

maybe, but there's broken tests

and they need some sort of resolution

emanresu A

The tests are running a lot faster now that most of them aren't failing :)

Whyyy does python handle "local variable referenced before assignment" at runtime???

Vyxal Bot

Lyxal created branch Vyxal/make-multiset-difference-respect-original-type

Lyxal opened PR #1314 (Vyxal/Vyxal) (Vyxal:make-multiset-difference-respect-original-type → Vyxal:main): Improve the behaviour of `Þ∨`

emanresu A

06:02

LMAO, dup and co don't preserve the infinite state of a list

For that matter, neither does deep_cop

I've come up with something quite elegant:

def gen():
    while True:
    a = next(lhs)
    b = next(rhs)
    if a in rhs.generated:
        yield a
    if b in lhs.generated:
        yield b

Vyxal Bot

06:21

chunkybanana created branch Vyxal/set-intersection

chunkybanana opened PR #1315 (Vyxal/Vyxal) (Vyxal:set-intersection → Vyxal:main): Make ↔ work on infinite lists differently

Lyxal approved on PR #1315 (Vyxal/Vyxal): "One day we'll have to change deep copy and more to account for infinite status "

emanresu A

@VyxalBot @lyxal didn't lol

I've fixed it

And what "more"? Steffan made it work for everything I know of

Cursed idea for when we run out of digraphs: Bring back a single-byte infinite list of positive integers and pass it into stuff like L for extra "digraph" overloads

lyxal

30 mins ago, by emanresu A

LMAO, dup and co don't preserve the infinite state of a list

emanresu A

Those all rely on deep_copy, which I fixed

lyxal

Oh you did fix it?

I didn't see that

emanresu A

06:44

Line 126 of helpers.py

Vyxal Bot

chunkybanana approved on PR #1314 (Vyxal/Vyxal)

lyxal

I see why I didn't see it

Github mobile hid the def deep_copy() part in the "show more lines" area

Meaning it wasn't syntax highlighted :p

emanresu A

Oh :P

mathcat

10:35

@emanresuA *depressed music*

emanresu A

On the other hand, I'm learning selenium for a reason ;)

lyxal

10:50

Guys we did it

The owner of week.golf has expressed interest in adding more than one language per month

emanresu A

:O

mathcat

yay!

lyxal

> I see all the same that there is a real enthusiasm around several languages. So I'm going to make sure that as many people as possible are happy this month.

Basically this means that the addition of vyxal is likely

Because getting in at least the top two is easy for us due to our sheer size

As we've seen from voting in phase 2 this month

lyxal

13:14

And that's it

once those are merged, the tests will all pass once more

lyxal

14:36

We had the oeis url so that someone here could try and access the oeis because firewall

It's from like June or July last year

user

15:04

Oh

Steffan

17:10

→ 14 messages moved to Trash

→ 10 messages moved to Trash

→ 27 messages moved to Trash

!!/prod

Vyxal Bot

Vyxal-Bot opened PR #1320 (Vyxal/Vyxal) (Vyxal:main → Vyxal:production): Update Production (2022-07-15)

emanresu A

20:26

@lyxal Niko/okie IIRC

But we don't need that now, and the oeis.html page doesn't exist anyeay

Vyxal Bot

chunkybanana approved on PR #1319 (Vyxal/Vyxal): "WOOOHOOO!!!!!!!1!11!1!!!!!"

Vyxal Bot

21:11

cgccuser approved on PR #1319 (Vyxal/Vyxal): "^"

cgccuser merged PR #1319 (Vyxal/Vyxal) (Vyxal:fix-last-test → Vyxal:main): Fix last failing test

cgccuser deleted branch Vyxal/fix-last-test

user

🎉

emanresu A

I fricking deleted it.

→ 1 message moved to Trash

@user Would you mind having a look at this?

user

22:12

I tried, but I don't understand it, sorry

The aliases themselves look good to me tho

emanresu A

22:50

@user Thanks :P

@user It's pretty much "try and match as many alphabetic chars as possible, if that fails, try digraphs"

Vyxal Bot

23:20

Steffan153 approved on PR #1278 (Vyxal/Vyxal)

Vyxal Bot

23:35

Steffan153 merged PR #1320 (Vyxal/Vyxal) (Vyxal:main → Vyxal:production): Update Production (2022-07-15)

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