@wasif check your email again

Absolute gamers

Gamer time

Unrelatedly, I have trillions of cookies.

nice can login now

epic

Where do be this button

Also nice, you set up git hooks

@Ausername Web tab

Did you even know there's a force https button?

bye for now

wi come back later

Is it just the reload button?

@hyper-neutrino there is?

?

Wrong reply?

@hyper-neutrino yeah wrong reply

Can I push the https button?

Er suee

*sure

Just scroll down

Lol

I've never seen it before

huh the webring runs even in http

so i guess it checks the ip and not the cert or smth

@Ausername if I'dv'e seen it I'dv'e already pressed it

Hm

Uh anyhow, just a few house keeping rules: do not delete the site. do not muck around with the .git folder unless you're modifying it intentionally. do not delete the mysite folder

Other than that, eh

Ok

The rest is free reign

So I can make the site background pink?

This is going to be fun

Expect an instant roll back though

Except when you're asleep...

@Ausername you could have done so anyway before

@lyxal Oh true

The only change really is that you can reload the site on changes

It's still controlled by the repo lol

Expect a surprise on April Fools next year

@lyxal What do we think about this?

Hmmm

I'm kinda with Bubbler on that one

However, that is something that should be openly discussed here

Democracy Question: How should function submissions work? (@Ausername @Underslash @AaronMiller @hyper-neutrino @Razetime @UnrelatedString @wasif @user @math @pxeger)

good job

@lyxal You forgot wasif

Yeah I really need to have the democracy ping copy-paste ready

@lyxal whatever syntax you require to push a function to stack and make it callable should be the standard

I also agree with bubbler; auto-close is fine if you have a full program since you can just run it as-is but without the ; it isn't really a complete function (and since vyxal doesn't really have functions but just callable objects, it needs to be the full code to push the function to the stack and allow the rest of the code before+after it)

the shortest method to do so is λ...; I think for a variadic function

I'll have a look at the standard for 05AB1E

if it's a function that's required to take a fixed number of args then it must use that syntax

05AB1E doesn't have functions

slaps face

That seems kinda silly

or at least first class ones from what I remember

05AB1E just takes strings and evals them as 05AB1E

Ok I'll edit the answe

what happens when you stringify a function

r

05AB1E only has transformer lambdas (or whatever it calls operators)

Dah frick I forgot to ping @AviFS

we should get a ping bot here

unless the lambda is autocalled in the thing maybe

REEEEEDWOOOOOOOOOOOLF!!!

Very good job mobile se chat sending my edit as a new message

REEEEEDWOOOOOOOOOOOLF!!!!1111!111!!11!!11! you mean

Yeah that

petition to make ^^ superping redwolf everywhere

/R+E+D+W+O+L+F+\!+(1+\!+)*1*/

@Razetime new flag idea?

Regex for that

@lyxal absolutely

> Your program shouldn't run for more than 1 second on a reasonable computer. (This avoids someone waits till Friday and outputs 0)

That could actually be an interesting challenge...

Where's that from?

@lyxal [Drag this to your bookmarks](javascript:(_=>{document.getElementById("input").value = "@Ausername @Underslash @AaronMiller @hyper-neutrino @Razetime @UnrelatedString @wasif @user @math @pxeger @AviFS"})(document))

agh

...

well played

just create a new bookmark with javascript:(_=>{document.getElementById("input").value = "@Wasif @Ausername @Underslash @AaronMiller @hyper-neutrino @Razetime @UnrelatedString @wasif @user @math @pxeger @AviFS"})(document)

very nicely done

as the URL

[Drag this to your bookmarks](<javascript:(_=>{document.getElementById("input").value = "@Ausername @Underslash @AaronMiller @hyper-neutrino @Razetime @UnrelatedString @wasif @user @math @pxeger @AviFS"})(document)>)

stop spam pinging.

Nope url force is broken

Sorry

I was trying to get url force

hard luck

just create a bookmark for this site, edit it and paste that code

should work fine

and you can edit it to reflect username changes

or get chat commands userscript and add that as an entry

that exists?

interesting

Laughs in mobile browser

back here again

@lyxal function submissions??

how they are supposed to work

@Razetime you double pinged me

@wasif like how you can submit a lambda in python instead of a full program

vyxal has funny usable, namable, parameterized functions

isn't prepopulating stack more flexible?

lambdas and other things may cost more bytes

in the case of a recursive definition, probably not

i see

most of the time full programs are golfier

yeah, functions allow for recursion with x which may be shorter sometimes

did someone yet use recursion in their answer

but in case you're making a binary lambda calculus interpreter or something I'd recommend using functions and not letting yourself go insane

@wasif yes, hence the democracy ping

vyxal normal functions are longer i think

you need to supply arity value too

does two/three variable lambdas exist?

dyads and triads?

@wasif you can also just multiply them

yeah

does anyone have any use cases where recursion is the must way to go?

people always find out a non recursive formula for tasks that look appearently impossible without recusrion

there's a difference between "possible" and "golfy"

also how did i get four pings over the course of like one game of league

@UnrelatedString democracy!

pog

imagine playing league smh

i would play something else if my friends played something else

poor friends

Imagine not playing cookie clicker 27 hours a day.

lol

lol

we actively try to find something else to play together and it never works

play multiplayer cookie clicker using parsec

usually i just go to itch and find a memey 2 player game to try on parsec

yeah the only game i really play with my friends is league

lol at 3 consecutive lols

I play tf2 with my friends

i play genshin but i don't usually co-op and i play apex, val, overwatch, and osu but with either different friends or alone

i have one friend who plays splatoon once in a blue moon

and occasionally tries to talk me into trying tf2

league is the only game we seem to actually be able to stick to playing lmao

yep

i play a good amount of lor but there's only one guy i ever actually end up getting to play with me

oh yeah lor is fun too but i don't play it anymore rip

which is weird because a bunch of my friends were into duelyst while that still existed

now they just do like

played it against my brother a bunch a while back but i've only played a couple of times since azir

some weird onlyine mtg thing

lol

sorry to interrupt, but

Version 2.4.0

nice

is it the e branch released

ngl I probably should have made a release earlier

lol

@wasif no

it's actually v2.4.0

there's v2 and then there's e branch

> prepending was a bit of a sussy baka, so I ejected it and got a new crewmate instead. (btw it still does prepend)

sus

@wasif that will probably most likely be v3

you also changed round number and ln function

include them in the release change list

real gamers use v0.0.0

Jyxal is in v-1.

@Ausername nice

rapid development speed

@Ausername is that v1 or v negative 1?

v negative 1

lol

Lol I went to address #98 only to not realise I still had the experimental version of Vyxal.py open. I was genuinely confused for a moment then.

pog

CMC: New favicon for the online interpreter

White italic V on black background?

Or flowey

No

not flowey

@Ausername that could be good

I'll wait and see what everyone else says

(not making it a democracy ping though)

Oh nice 2.4.0

I pinned it

well I'mma go rerun the corpus then get back to writing the e branch compiler

> new favicon

implying one exists

One does

and it used to display

oh

problem is that I've lost the file

if you make an API for the online interpreter i'll make you a chatbot to run vyxal code here

:p

hows this look

why X and not V

@Razetime Yes

V in red, Y in blue, X in black

oh

@hyper-neutrino Jyxal would work once I finish it

wait hold on

my chat bot is in python so i can just run vyxal there .-. lol

gamer

CMQ - do we want a Vyxal execution bot here

yes

i don't think we do that enough to warrant one

also that would require a vyxal keyboard bookmarklet

true

@Wasif @Ausername @Underslash @AaronMiller @hyper-neutrino @Razetime @UnrelatedString @wasif @user @math @pxeger @AviFS chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/58418103#58418103

it's a democracy ping whether you like it or not ;p

rest in peace everyone's inbox

so

who wants to pull request Adam's lb

not me

I don't know apl

what are we PRing

you need to make it in js smh

I don't know js very well

i know minimal apl and can do js things

@hyper-neutrino github.com/abrudz/lb

you don't need APL at all

ah

also yeah

@Razetime every language bar has an APL, JS, and HTML file

are you sure you don't need APL

@hyper-neutrino hence why I mentioned APL

because I've seen the repo before

@hyper-neutrino I wrote most of the BQN keyboard so i must know

and btw BQN doesn't have a .dyalog file

oh bqn doesn't

you don't need APL

back again

wack

what is BqN

a non-kosher version of apl

APL but not really APL

@lyxal nice

BQN is a better version of APL with amazing documentation

i see

@hyper-neutrino wdym by non kosher

also, I reran the corpus

check #14 for the results

@lyxal execution bot could be cool but i wouldn't make it a priority

results haven't changed much

the hard part is associating keys with each symbol

@wasif apl = apple, bqn = bacon

bacon = pork

unless you guys are fine with just clicking the symbols

its kinda scary that 2x-1 has turned into ghost everywhere (in github too)

how is that scary lol

honestly I don't think anybody uses capture symbols in anything except APL

wait what's a capture zymbol

keybindings?

i've started using the ones from the bookmarklet for jelly

for the APL lb if you press backtick it auto changes the next char typed to it's apl keyboard equivalent

@lyxal For what?

@AviFS test message

(sorry if that pinged everyone again)

@wasif Lame.

It was 5:30am here, so no worries. I didn't wake up for another 6 hours, haha

Is it still an open question?

sure

I'm still interested in your thoughts

and there's still others who haven't answered yet

Do you mind elaborating on the question then, pls?

Okay so in python, you can submit either a full program or a function (like a lambda)

It's just input to function, and then what the function returns, right?

@lyxal Right

how does one format the function submission?

what's included and what isn't?

i wonder how do you make reusable functions in vyxal

@name|code;

all stateless functions should be reusable, no?

alternatively, put the lambda in a function

anyhow, I gtg now sorry

bye for now

F

no i asked if they are reusablr

Oh...

@lyxal o/

Bye-o!!

Usually, it's whatever minimal chunk of code defines a function that you can actually use

So unless you have lambdas, for instance, the name of the program does count

Because it's part of the necessary syntax of declaring the function to be able to use it

So if there are no unnamed functions, that'd def be worth adding!

But ultimately, how functions are accepted is a question for the general CGCC community, not necessarily the language users

It'd just have to be posted as an answer to the corresponding meta question, and if it got the sufficient votes, it'd go into play

What counts here, is unfortunately not up to us to decide, as I understand it

As the language designer, all you can do is implement golfy function syntax, so whatever the community votes to accept is golfier

@lyxal Have I answered or totally skirted the point?

@AviFS except it's good to establish what the language users want first before making a proposal on meta. That way, it's representative of the majority.

Hence why I asked as a democracy ping

if you make newlines terminate lambdas it might be more acceptable. no clue though

I see, that makes a lot of sense. Still, I doubt we'll get away with anything but the minimal snippet that still provides a fully functioning function

So I think really the thing here is to come up with a minimal syntax for functions

@hyper-neutrino that sounds like the χ transformer

the what now

@AviFS and that's what I was hoping I would get as answers from the ping

Ah, I'm sorry!

@hyper-neutrino "everything up until last newline as an element"

I totally missed the question then, haha

@AviFS all good!

oh lol

How about like dfns in APL? Those are pretty sleek

@AviFS I think your opinion is still valid though, and I think that's helped me clarify what I wanted too

Except you can leave off the closing } at the end of the program

@AviFS I suppose I'm more looking for what can be counted as a function submission

But then we're back to the first point, haha

Try it Online! is obviously acceptable

Fully functioning functions count as function submissions, and only fully functioning functions, so far as I know

But is something like Try it Online! acceptable?

only as a full program submission

^

How about Try it Online!?

it doesn't define a function that can be used without further obligatory syntax

@UnrelatedString which format are you referring to?

both

originally the first one

i would argue vyxal's regular elements aren't even functions, just commands that will apply to the stack

so to submit a "function solution"

you have to submit the minimal complete code that is a command / group of commands that push a function to the stack, since that's the only form vyxal really has functions in

i'd say you can hide the semicolon in the footer only if you can omit it entirely and still have a function which you can actually use elsewhere

but i'm not aware of any way to use a function prior to defining it

And for clarification: Try it Online!?

imo no

Okay theb

*then

That settles it

if you can do like f= in the header and lambda ... ; (whatever the syntax for variables is) that should be fine like in python (unless recursion uses the name)

@hyper-neutrino you can

ok

granted it pushes the function so i don't see the need to define as a var lol

For everyone else: do you agree with hyper and Unrelated's assessment?

i am just now trying to think of how to think about jelly function submissions not counting the newline afterwards

because clearly that's a different category of obligatory syntax

but how do we define that

@hyper-neutrino Try it Online!

nice

@lyxal Unfortunately not, as I understand

In Python, the def f(n): is included in the byte count

Not just the body

@AviFS nothing unfortunate about it

@UnrelatedString Exactly this!

Well it is. Because it'd be shorter otherwise!

I don't know that functions will ever be shorter than full programs in Vyxal though, will they?

recursion

You already have implicit input/output, and require no bytes to declare a function

Ah

Then I recommend a symbol that calls the entire program again

Similar to ∇ in APL which allows you to do recursion in unnamed lamdas

So if you call ∇(3) it calls itself with 3

@AviFS x

And you could in principle do that in Vyxal, but it would just run the whole program with a different input

That's what x does

@lyxal You mean you've implemented already?

Correct

Then back to why do you need to use functions?

@hyper-neutrino Hyper said recursion

@AviFS It only works in functions

Aka, when could functions possibly be shorter than implicit I/O in a stack-based lang

@AviFS Ah, then back to the other haha

The idea is to have it rerun the program with a different input, if not in a function

Ah

I could make x do that too

Current it just prints the stack outside a function

What do you think of the idea?

It already does it inside functionz

*functions

Shouldn't be too hard to make it do so outside functions

So this would be collatz, for example

∷[3*1+x|½x]

But wait, there's more:

Have it execute the program, without changing the stack

That way you don't have to worry about arity

The next execution can use the first two elements of the stack, only the top one, or the first n

It doesn't matter if the stack accumulates cruft over successive iterations

Perhaps this is worth considering for lambdas in general

You use quite a few bytes declaring the arity

@lyxal

That just sounds like generators with extra steps

But it could be worth it

I'll put it in the experimental branch for now

@lyxal wouldn't making a function terminate at a new-line save 0 bytes over terminating at a semicolon?

@Underslash end of program counts as newline i assume

@Underslash no, because it's like abcXdef

And abc gets grouped

It's to the start of the line

Not to the end