Droning On

user435118

09:58

@ifconfig just looked your bio preferences and I think you made a mistake: Mac over Linux and Windows and iOS over Android :)

user435118

@Mithical :)

Kenn Sebesta

11:59

OOoh, chat, exciting!

@Dan

@Daniil, ping.

user435118

Hello

user435118

I'll migrate my comments to here

user435118

Right:

user435118

area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/123448/…

user435118

@KennSebesta feel free to express your views on meta: drones.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/60/…

user435118

12:02

A lot of questions are similar to my question for your information: drones.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/lipo

user435118

For example: drones.stackexchange.com/questions/242/…

Kenn Sebesta

12:13

See drones.meta.stackexchange.com/a/63/46 for a response.

The problem is not that the question isn't good, it's that it isn't appropriate.

We want to attract world-class talent from all drone domains. A drone researcher who read that question would feel her/his time was not well spent.

We want to make sure that all questions are framed about drones, and that any question here has a unique answer because it's in a drone.

user435118

i disagree, -1 from me

Kenn Sebesta

Can you elaborate? It's important in SE to provide basis.

user435118

Sure, might take a while to type so you know I'm not gone :)

Kenn Sebesta

Lol, okay!

BTW, I'm totally not picking on you or your questions.

CaldeiraG

Don't mind me, i'm just looking around :p

user435118

12:17

@CaldeiraG Have you got an opinion on this?

Kenn Sebesta

This is about curation, so that when we launch live we have an awesome, never seen before, reference collection.

SMEs in other domains should learn something here.

user435118

The community seems to agree with me: drones.stackexchange.com/review/close/184

Kenn Sebesta

I can see how an SME in EE is going to look at a general LiPo question and think "I can do better" and "it's already done better over here".

user435118

What's SME and EE?

Kenn Sebesta

Subject Matter Expert and Electrical Engineer.

user435118

12:19

Ok

Kenn Sebesta

Sorry, I've been in this domain for a long time now, acronyms come fast and furious!

FWIW, antenna placement questions which have to take into account the fact that the antenna changes orientation with the model's RPY are extremely on the nose. The special drone interaction is what makes it relevant.

user435118

Hmm Have to think about this a bit more, working right now so maybe later

CaldeiraG

> General questions along the lines of How do I know if my Lipo is done charging? are very good, but they are 1) not a relevant question and 2) answered in other SE sites.

You seem to contradict yourself here

Tinkeringbell

@Daniil I do think one-lines generally make 'bad' questions. What's safely? What makes you know you can't just throw them in the trash? (a bit of research effort?).

user435118

@Tinkeringbell Good point, hi by the way :)

Tinkeringbell

12:22

I've also seen quite a few questions/answers that could probably do with at least a location tag, because they touch upon specific, local, regulations :)

CaldeiraG

And bringing the topic that it can answered somewhere is a common thing among sites, just because it could get better answers somewhere else doesn't mean it's not on-topic here

2

Tinkeringbell

@Daniil Afternoon! I got bored of playing with dates and comma separated files so I thought I'd drop by ;)

user435118

@Tinkeringbell You can tag the answers and I'll do the questions ;)

Tinkeringbell

@Daniil Heh :P I meant, an answer saying 'check your local regulations/municipality' isn't very helpful... where do I start checking?!

I think I agree most with Kenn.

The e-mail I got about private beta said:

Kenn Sebesta

@CaldeiraG could you explain? I don't see the contradiction. The question can be good, as in it's not stupid or dumb or a waste of my time to read, but still be off-topic.

Tinkeringbell

12:23

> Remember, you get the site you build! Ask difficult, specific questions — the kind of questions pros and experts ask each other, not the kind of questions novices ask pros, because a site full of pros and experts will attract everybody, but a site full of novices rapidly becomes boring. No easy questions, no survey questions, no polls, no intro-level/basic questions, no unanswerable hypothetical questions.

I think asking 'how to dispose of a LiPo battery' may be into-level/basic? I've seen quite a few where I went 'I can answer that with a bit of Google-fu'. Given that all I know about drones is that it seems fun to learn to fly one... that's probably not good!

Those probably aren't the questions you want right now, because that means that if you go out of private beta, that's the kind of questions people will keep asking.

CaldeiraG

it's a relevant question (althought I mostly think with a bit of research you could find the answer) and it's about drone batteries (do they have any difference from a normal Lipo battery?)

I'm not really an expert in drones

I will lightly disagree with your post overall

Tinkeringbell

(I must admit I rather think in what makes a good question, that encourages good answers and future questions, than just in off-/on- topic for now).

Kenn Sebesta

@Tinkeringbell +1.

@CaldeiraG drone batteries are simple RC batteries which are used in drones. There are some specific ways the manufacturer can tune batteries so they're more suitable for drones, but they also wind up being more suitable for all applications with high power and light weight.

This is the basis of my vote to close, as the is generic and best asked in the more generic SE.Electronics.

CaldeiraG

> just because it could get better answers somewhere else doesn't mean it's not on-topic here

this happens a lot on IPS/Workplace.SE

@Tinkeringbell knows about this :p

Kenn Sebesta

Agreed, but the fact that it is not related to drones at all, beyond the fact that drones use it, is what makes it not appropriate.

Drone experts will have world-class expertise in EE, ME, manufacturing, etc...

But by definition the SE.Drones site isn't supposed to hold the world's expertise in those domains.

user435118

12:31

@KennSebesta What about all the other questions tagged LiPo?

Tinkeringbell

@CaldeiraG That's true. So a question about Lipo batteries isn't per definition on or off topic here. But what Kenn says is true too: Just because a question on IPS mentions an interaction, doesn't mean it's about Interpersonal Skills and suitable for there.

CaldeiraG

Fair enough

Tinkeringbell

How many questions don't we get that describe interactions in detail, but in the end describe nothing more than just what happened that day, without having a goal related to Interpersonal Skills? :P

Kenn Sebesta

@Daniil, good question. I think that we want to steer them to be relevant to drones. We can help the questioner tease out what is actually relevant.

user435118

@KennSebesta @Tinkeringbell Is this a better question? drones.stackexchange.com/questions/311/…

Kenn Sebesta

12:33

For instance, center of gravity is super important in drones, and batteries play heavily into that.

Tinkeringbell

@Daniil I think that works better yes. Is S49 the make and model?

user435118

Yep, google S49 quadcopter and you'll be able to see

Tinkeringbell

It's easier to ask here :P

Kenn Sebesta

@Daniil, double +1. The reason could be exceedingly drone specific, such as GPS antenna issues because of height. At CyPhy, we saw that proximities closer than 2m from the ground caused ground-plane interactions which would result in errors of 1-2m.

So that question inspires good discussion, and answers can surprise because it's a drone. A ground robot or smart phone would never encounter this phenomenon.

user435118

@KennSebesta Agreed

user435118

12:36

@KennSebesta You know about drones? Maybe you could post something? :)

Kenn Sebesta

I am posting! My job here is a lot harder because the line between curation and criticism is blurry, and a failure on my part in IPS/Workplace.SE skills tend to catch people off guard. ;)

Tinkeringbell

@Daniil I dropped you a comment, I think you should include that info?

Kenn Sebesta

So I'm hopefully helping the new guys get adjusted to an SE mindset, which has some crucial and initially non-obvious differences from forum mentality.

user435118

@KennSebesta Hopefully

Kenn Sebesta

A lot of the rules carry over-- be nice, be courteous, be helpful--, but the need to be laser focused and frame things in ways which tend not to drift is an important difference.

Tinkeringbell

12:39

@KennSebesta :P I'm not a mod there because I'm a SME. I think I am the chaos monkey.

user435118

I've been on SE for 1.5 years and I'm struggling :)

Kenn Sebesta

Personal aside, but I love how many people here are brand spanking new to SE.

user435118

@Tinkeringbell Edited, you can remove the comment now but thanks for that

user435118

@KennSebesta Same

Tinkeringbell

@Daniil Yw :)

user435118

12:42

I am so behind with work, I've got to get back

Tinkeringbell

@KennSebesta It's certainly going to be fun to observe how well they'll adapt :)

user435118

I'll be on but not responding unless I am pinged

Kenn Sebesta

13:02

@Daniil, case in point, drones.stackexchange.com/a/312/46 surprised me and taught me something new. Even as an SME in my particular drone domain, I had no idea that some drones had a RTH mode which was purely inertial. Kudos on a great question with an informative answer!

user435118

@KennSebesta I even learnt something new :)

FlashCactus

13:48

@KennSebesta regarding your comment on my question (I first wanted to post it as a reply, but comments on the main site are probably not a good place for such a meta discussion, so I'll post it here):

Well, I can add a few words specifically related to flying. As easy as this would be, I don't see the necessity of editing questions to specifically mention drones. The substance of the question will stay the same anyways, and its relevance to drones is defined by the substance, not the wording. I feel it's also obvious that this is a drone-related question, as it's _posted on a drone SE site_.

However, looks like this "drone related wording" topic might be worthy of a Meta discussion. I think it would be beneficial if you could create a Meta question and elaborate on your opinion on the matter there, as frankly I couldn't understand your view of the division between relevant/irrelevant questions/wording.
I hope that this way we could together form a general set of guidelines on what kind of questions would and would not be considered relevant to this SE.

user435118

@FlashCactus see here for the Meta discussion: drones.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/60/…

user435118

> Yes, but only so long as they are framed in ways which are specific to drones. SE.Drones is not a technical support forum, and it should attract drones experts as well as drone users. Expertise is a hard word to precisely pin down, but if we don't have people from Aurora, Boeing, Flyability, DJI, etc... hanging out here then we are missing a huge section of drone expertise.

Tinkeringbell

RE: "I don't see the necessity of editing questions to specifically mention drones"... maybe not. I can write a lot and just put the word 'drone' in there, so that's definitely not a great approach...

But writing questions from a 'why do you need to know' perspective is good. Those are interesting Lipo battery facts, but what use are they to someone that flies drones? What problems will they avoid? Can my drone fall out of the air if the voltage becomes too low?

Also.. letting the site it's written on imply what the problem of a question is... isn't very useful, people *will* interpret these things differently. You might create a problem of 'off-topic answers' this way.

The question isn't specific about drones, so why should the answer be?

FlashCactus

14:06

Okay, I suppose the fact that such drastic, but momentary, overdischarges tend to be exceedingly rare in other applications in which lipos are used is not immediately obvious to anyone reading the question. Does that mean that in every such case the asker must include a passage of the "this is relevant to drones because X" kind?

Tinkeringbell

I'd phrase it differently, or you'll sound pretty argumentative :P But yeah, it is apparently relevant because a.) It happens much more often when these batteries are used in drones and b.) you probably don't want to buy new batteries for each flight? ;)

If you have the knowledge of when this damage occurs, what were you going to use that knowledge for? That's also a good thing to include, probably.

CaldeiraG

15:09

reddit.com/r/mildlyinteresting/comments/g2dqzc/…

Pretty cool

anchor home setup

well, wrong chat but there ya go

cc @Tinkeringbell :p

QuadMcFly

15:23

So here's my thoughts as a drone research, product developer, and subject matter expert in a narrow but highly competitive branch of drone development. This part of stack exchange is probably going to be a bit different that other parts due to the culture of the topic that is being covered here. DIY drones are much more of a generalist area. You can't expect the rules and culture of the greater SE community to apply in the same way here as they do in other SE branches.

We're going to see more questions that could have wider general answers, but have answers specific to their applications in drone technology.

I also think you find plenty of other subject matter experts similar to myself that are willing to put in the time and effort on questions that would seem too general in other stack exchange environments, specifically because we have an understanding of how it fits into the niche this topic covers.

A very important part of what we're figuring out in this beta period is how all of that looks.

Tinkeringbell

@QuadMcFly I'd.. give you one thing to think about: As soon as this site is out of private beta, you're going to hit e.g. HNQ. In any case, network traffic will come. So whatever influx of new users you get, they aren't all going to be subject matter experts.

So, not everyone is going to understand how things fit into this niche. It's going to take some thought on whether that's better solved with questions that point out the relation to the niche, or moderating perhaps copious amounts of answers that don't do the niche thing.

QuadMcFly

I think one thing you'll find is that the community centered around this is fairly tight knit and consistent.

I agree we need to have some control over spurious questions, but I also think that there are a lot of ancillary questions that do fit here that might not fit in other SEs

And I doubt we'll see the same sort of explosion post beta that other SEs have seen

Tinkeringbell

15:40

@QuadMcFly That's definitely a good thing to start with, btw. It seems there's quite a few SME's here already, which is probably going to help a lot. Just keep it in mind, I doubt everyone that flies a drone is here already. Heck, I'm here and I don't even have a drone, I just wanted to see what a private beta would be like!

I think on IPS I've seen traffic increases from school classes, winterbash (because a good question can land you a hat), and some users that are known in general to try and farm a bit of a reputation by low-quality (easy?) questions. There's people that will come to your site once Drones are in the news and you have a question on the Hot Network list, because they think it would be fun to ask about...

QuadMcFly

Oh trust me I've been an active part of the drone community for 5+ years :D But yes I'm sure we'll see plenty of garbage questions

We'll be dealing with that as it comes, but I mostly want the traditional SE folks to understand in the end this is likely to look a little different, and we should be open to thinking a little differently about it overall.

Tinkeringbell

16:24

I'll be paying attention to that and keeping it in mind :) I'm definitely not used to very standard SE communities, but this is going to be a whole lot different then, if it works.

Rory Alsop

17:07

@KennSebesta As mentioned, any time you want a second opinion, I'm happy to pitch in. 10 years modding on SE sites - generally from start up - and a lot of the same questions/friction/challenges crop up again and again at various times

Mithical

@QuadMcFly "explosion post beta" Ha.

Rory Alsop

@QuadMcFly Don't worry - only one of mine was "standard" as per SE - Infosec.SE. All the other sites I mod are far more subjective than the SE model would lead you to expect: Music, Parenting, Outdoors, Sound Design and Video

@QuadMcFly graphs for most sites are remarkably similar from private beta, public beta through to graduation. And there is not an explosion at any of those milestones

QuadMcFly

Good deal :D Sounds like we're on the right track.

Rory Alsop

(a small peak immediately on going public, but then that settles back quickly)

QuadMcFly

Yeah I think in this case a lot of the active community is going to be involved in the early stages and stay active through the whole thing.

Mithical

17:11

In all the private betas I've been part of, activity plummets drastically immediately after private beta. With the exception of IPS.

QuadMcFly

We'll get some come and go, but the core content people are probably going to stay fairly consistent

The diy drone community tends to be open to new things, and actively engaged from early stages

at least in my previous experience

Rory Alsop

Here's an example graph - details removed to avoid leaking sensitive data

The spike is public beta

that's maybe a 5 year plot

user435118

@RoryAlsop What site is that from?

QuadMcFly

Awesome :D I love data!

user435118

@QuadMcFly Are you relatively new to SE?

Rory Alsop

17:15

from infosec.SE - which has a strong core community, and a tight scope. But at the start we were quite different: it was IT Security, which caused challenges - once we graduated and matured we took a community decision to widen scope to information security (including physical, all forms of data eg paper based etc)

QuadMcFly

I've browsed stack exchange for years, but never been a contributor till now.

Rory Alsop

@Daniil but the shape broadly matches Music.SE - Music was a bit slower, and scope has been more challenging. Parenting is a bit more peak and trough-y

Sound and Video were migrated from very different communities so had their own growing pains

user435118

@RoryAlsop Interesting

user435118

@RoryAlsop you into drones yourself?

Rory Alsop

The main thing I learned was not to be too concerned about daily fluctuations in the early stages, to be encouraging to a wide range of questions, but to focus on quality - by editing, encouraging full detail in questions, incorporating comments into posts once they have improved info

@Daniil I've always flown model aircraft, and then my eldest son got into racing quads - he came 3rd in Scotland and 12th in the UK drone racing league and got me my first racer so he could practice with me... I've not got the twitch reflexes of a youngster any more so I'm more a freestyler than a racer

I still haven't got to grips with the oddness that yaw brings when you have a 60 degree camera tilt

QuadMcFly

17:20

Hah, for sure! Roll and pitch invert!

or rather roll and yaw

not pitch

Rory Alsop

My main focus for years was 2m + wingspan gliders and then piloting real aircraft, so I'm used to aerodynamics, not power+ballistics, which is what you get with racing quads

@QuadMcFly I have flown straight into the ground so many times when turning round a gate

QuadMcFly

Yep! It happens!

Kenn Sebesta

@RoryAlsop sounds like we have a similar background. I was crashing balsa airplanes for so long I gave up. I came back to it in 2010 when sensors got good and cheap enough the controls I was writing could save me the trouble of having to move the damned joysticks so precisely.

QuadMcFly

I started in home-brew robotics and went straight to drones :D

Kenn Sebesta

@FlashCactus I think others have said it pretty well, but I thought I'd chime in with my view. I will go where the community leads, but I think it will be a better site when questions and answers are unique in the world, and necessary for the betterment of the field.

So for instance, everyone using power elex has the LiPo problem. I am currently spec'ing a powerplant for a knock-off FES for a full-scale glider (one I will ultimately sit in!), and the battery charging problems are identical for me and for my drones. Anyone doing R/C cars or R/C boats has this same problem as well.

Super widespread questions like this probably have a better home than SE.Drones if only because too much noise drowns out the signal. If I have the same question answered on 5 different SE sites, then being a non-expert I cannot hope to tell the difference, and the questions' answers aren't coherent because some will be updated at different times from others.

The result is a general downward trend in information density. This is contrary to what I believe SE is, which is one-stop shopping for hard questions. I love that when I have a question which is totally outside my domain, I can go to an SE site and know that I have read something which is likely the final word on the subject.

All that being said, @RoryAlsop makes excellent points about how the place evolves. It's about curation of an atmosphere, not punishment of outliers.

Rory Alsop

17:31

@KennSebesta One of the things that does work well on SE is tags. As an example we have Space Flight SE and also Astronomy SE and Physics SE. There are many questions that would be appropriate on all 3, but the focus has always been that as long as they are in scope, they can be asked where the asker wants them to be.

Community and mods can migrate if they are not getting attention, or the answers really need to come from another specialisation, but in the main, moving to a site with an overlapping scope isn't needed

it's optional to improve answers

QuadMcFly

So related to how it works long term, do closed questions eventually get removed?

Rory Alsop

So for Space Ex, there are loads of questions which could be answered with pure physics, but because they are specifically about thrust, for example, they are appropriate to stay - even though the equations are the same as you'd get on Physics

@QuadMcFly Yes, in a couple of ways. If closed with no upvoted answers, the auto deletion bot eventually cleans up

If closed with upvoted answers, it requires mod or senior community involvement (eg those who have earned the privilege)

QuadMcFly

Got it.

Kenn Sebesta

I like that. I hate that a downvote or a vote to close stings. It's really about saying, "Hmm... that's not what I would do" and not "ZOMG stop doing that!"

Rory Alsop

drones.stackexchange.com/help/privileges

That's the list of privileges you get with rep - new sites especially depend on core folks getting those top privs - hence why vote early and vote often is key. It removes dross, and it promotes those who really want to make the site succeed

QuadMcFly

17:36

Based on the questions that are rising to the top right now I think we're getting some really good stuff.

I'm excited to see how it progresses

On unfortunate part of this that I've noticed on SE over my time using it is that often correct or technically better answers don't get upvoted as much in some situations.

Rory Alsop

Oh, if you want a laugh - this is my first racing quad flight youtube.com/watch?v=lIjLwS8MoG8 compared with my son's ease youtube.com/watch?v=JMSkzU_f9L0

user435118

@QuadMcFly Yes they do, some questions get automatically deleted by the Community robot: drones.stackexchange.com/help/roomba

Rory Alsop

@QuadMcFly true. My highest upvoted post across the entire network was a throwaway question I posted one Christmas for fun...

Kenn Sebesta

@QuadMcFly I think this is why it's so important to make sure that questioners understand that they're part of the SE social contract, and in specific SE.Drones.

QuadMcFly

As a user what it's taught me is to look past the top rated questions or answers, and dig a bit :D

Sometimes the best answer is down a bit, or a question asked a better way is down a bit.

Kenn Sebesta

17:39

One recurrent problem in SE is information which gets old. You stumble across a "how do I do X on macOS", and the most upvoted answer is no longer applicable because Apple has changed something.

So always pays to read the entire thread and soak in the knowledge.

Rory Alsop

@KennSebesta Some sites handle that better than others - sometimes by using version tags, other times by updating outdated posts (that requires people following up), or even reasking and reanswering the question

Kenn Sebesta

Huh, that sounds nice. Building on that, I suspect that battery and FC questions really need some tags.

Those things change at a whirlwind pace.

Rory Alsop

I've now been sucked into watching my son's youtube channel again - this sort of thing is beyond my reflexes I reckon: youtube.com/watch?v=DW7W8SWhZec&t=36s

QuadMcFly

Yeah it's crazy, gusy like Evan Turner and Minchan Kim blow my mind.

I think battery questions will be fairly consistent. But anything related to Betaflight DEFINITELY needs tags as to the version

Betaflight changes at a frightening pace

Rory Alsop

@QuadMcFly I think you're right - that could be a challenge. Are we going to get a lot of "to fix this upgrade to latest ver" do you think?

QuadMcFly

17:52

It depends, some of the core features tend to stay fairly consistent, but there is a lot of edge case features that tend to come and go.

The few questions I've answered with specific screenshots are things that have stayed constant for quite a while

Kenn Sebesta

This is why in general I'm against FC-specific questions.

QuadMcFly

but they should still probably be tagged with version information

Kenn Sebesta

18

Q: Should questions asking for support for a specific software suite or firmware be on-topic?

Proposal: Drones and Model Aviation This proposal has a number of example questions that amount to "How to do X in Y software suite?" Some of these might be better suited to the specific product's support forums or GitHub. Should these support questions be considered on topic on this stack? For...

QuadMcFly

Unforutnately if you eliminate FC specific questions you've eliminate a MAJOR number of questions that are going to be asked, or at least eliminated a large number of answers to questions that will be asked

Kenn Sebesta

I see that as a feature, not a bug?

When I was doing OpenPilot, and then after that when we left to found Tau Labs, we had our own forums and IRC channels.

QuadMcFly

17:54

I see it as a major reduction in the usefulness of the this stack

Kenn Sebesta

Support questions belonged there, and when they happened in RCGroups it was actually a disservice, because it fragmented questions and answers, and meant it was hard to keep data up-to-date.

QuadMcFly

Unfortunately the roll that FC software plays in general use for drones is large enough you can't really avoid it

And most of the flight control software now doesn't really have any dedicated support channels

Kenn Sebesta

I think that's true, but I think the kind of support questions we allow should be extremely limited and generic to several FCs.

QuadMcFly

I agree we should avoid being too specific, but some intersection with betaflight and blheli especially will be unavoidable

As well as OpenTX

Kenn Sebesta

Is that strictly true? Those are some great packages, but they have robust communities and they are very, very narrow in scope.

Drones are all kinds of things, but those are for hobby drones, sometimes bordering on light professionao.

(God knows we used OpenTX and BLHeli pretty much everywhere in the LVL 1 project!)

QuadMcFly

17:59

I would say one major reason this entire stack exists is because of the lack of a dedicated support method for betaflight

and BLHeli

OpenTX is better

Kenn Sebesta

I think part of what we have here is differing visions of what SE.Drones could/should be. I think of it as a place where high-level users/researchers/pros can quickly surmount challenges. Kind of like when I get stuck on an esoteric programming question and SO comes to the rescue.

But I recognize that's not the only vision, nor is it the prevailing one. Of course, I prefer my vision, but it's hardly my sandbox so I'll play by the community rules.

I hadn't realized that betaflight was orphaned. That sucks.

*orphaned, as in not well supported by the devs.

QuadMcFly

It's not exactly orphaned, there is TON of active development on the project, but it's all high level stuff

they're interested in testing and developing new features

not supporting a massive user base

The support is pretty much community driven via facebook groups at the moment

which makes it hard to find answers after they've gone by

the goal in setting up SE was that it would be searchable and easily accessible

Kenn Sebesta

Hmmm... that sounds hard.

Is the right answer is for SE to solve this, though?

QuadMcFly

For instance, that question about "why do my motors keep spinning up when I test on the bench", I answer that probably 5 times a week

haha

I suppose whether this is the right fit or not is the question we're trying to answer with this Beta, right?

Kenn Sebesta

Maybe I worry too much that lots of betaflight questions will crowd out the participation I'd like to see, which is stuff that discusses new ways to do geofences, or path planning/following.

Yes!

QuadMcFly

18:04

I think that if we tag thing properly there's no reason we can't fit both goals

But I would say the reason we had the massive response of new users we saw during the initial phase of trying to reach beta is centered on what I'm talking about

Kenn Sebesta

I guess my primary interaction with SE sites is via google. Do the tags mean much to the search engines?

QuadMcFly

and the general community expectations follow it

Well google will pick up on the right threads based on the questions being asked

Kenn Sebesta

@QuadMcFly Well, then we can hardly disappoint. If their momentum is the whole reason SE.Drones exists in the first place, that's not to be scoffed at from an ivory tower.

QuadMcFly

That was mostly the point I was trying to get across.

There are a lot of different expectations, so we just need to try to balance it with what will actually work

Rory Alsop

@KennSebesta Ah - so this is actually where SE works well. An example: on Arqade, the Gaming.SE, I am only interested in a very small number of games, so have it configured to only show me them. It will be simple here for people to, for example, only show betaflight posts, or blheli posts. Or for heli pilots to exclude all quad posts

QuadMcFly

18:08

Based on my experience in the drone community, I would say the DIY, racing, freestyle branch outstrips the research and development side in terms of size and engagement by an exponential factor. But there's no reason we can't accommodate both. As @RoryAlsop says, there's tools that come for that specific purpose.

Rory Alsop

@QuadMcFly and that is one EVERY new user comes across

Kenn Sebesta

@QuadMcFly by a factorial factor <--- FTFY

Rory Alsop

As we grow, another good idea is building canonical questions - and that one could be on the list for all new folks

and a really good SE FAQ is here: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/7931/…

the Tagging section is useful, but it's all worth a read

@KennSebesta tags are used by the search engine, but also useful to users

QuadMcFly

It's also worth pointing out I think a lot of the "users" of this SE will be invisible to us. Traffic only, but not user accounts or contributors.

Consumers

not creators

I mean that's pretty much been my entire relationship with Stack Exchange untill recently! Hah

Rory Alsop

I can't remember the percentages - one of SE staff did do a stats post a while back, and you are right - the vast majority is one time traffic via google: someone comes with a specific question, finds an answer and leaves

Tinkeringbell

18:16

The anonymous vote stats are a good way to keep track of which questions attract a lot of that kind of traffic, I think.

Rory Alsop

the core ensures good quality, and the consumers drive demand :-)

@Tinkeringbell I'm unsure of correlation between folks finding the right answer, and also leaving a vote :-)

Tinkeringbell

Hmm. I come from sites where there often isn't a 'right' one to begin with :P But I wasn't looking at 'right' answers, more thinking there is probably a correlation between anonymous people finding a certain question/answer through a search engine and voting for it anonymously :P

Rory Alsop

@Tinkeringbell true

Kenn Sebesta

I dunno, guys. Looking at things like drones.stackexchange.com/questions/243/…, I know it's super useful to have a spot where you can ask questions, but it's just such a platform question which doesn't have any meaning outside the single user asking. The answers are all over the map and none of them are demonstrably correct. There's no way to validate and improve the answers.

And another user having the same observable problem might have it for a completely different reason. Lastly, in order to solve the problem, it requires a back and forth which isn't very elegant in SE.

FlashCactus

This kind of question also bothers me, It screams of "please debug my build for me"

On the other hand, SE is famous for getting people out of unsolvable problems.

Kenn Sebesta

18:26

I want to help. If the question were "what are known causes for airframe z-axis oscillations" then you'd get some great answers, ones which help all users and even some developers.

FlashCactus

Welll, that may or may not be what the guy actually wanted to ask

Kenn Sebesta

@FlashCactus I expect you're right, with both comments.

Rory Alsop

@KennSebesta That would be a much better question - again, having that as one of the canonical ones would give a great body of knowledge for all the usual stuff

Kenn Sebesta

I expect he wanted to ask exactly what he did. I feel we should in general discourage that kind of question. Although maybe it's enough to filter by tags, I'll have to try @RoryAlsop's suggestion.

FlashCactus

And while it's good to have this more general kind of question with answers listing all the known causes in the backlog, it's also important to have the "I'm having a specific problem" kind of question, in which one details what problem he's having, on what equipment, what he's tried and why none of the previous questions helped.

Rory Alsop

18:29

@KennSebesta in this instance, a downvote or strong editing is what I think is better, but there are obviously quite a few folks who upvoted it

@FlashCactus definitely

FlashCactus

However we need to somehow distinguish the genuine "I'm stuck" questions from the "lazy ass" ones.

Kenn Sebesta

@FlashCactus agreed.

FlashCactus

btw, @RoryAlsop could you explain the Community Wiki feature's relation to beta sites? Should we strive to get CW posts out early, or the opposite, or not care about them?

Kenn Sebesta

@FlashCactus do you still disagree with drones.meta.stackexchange.com/a/62/46, or do you understand a little better where I'm coming from?

FlashCactus

I still think that the original question that led me to write this post shouldn't have been closed. However I can see where you're coming from and am very glad that I dove in to discuss this topic.

Rory Alsop

18:37

@FlashCactus generally CW posts are discouraged across SE nowadays. They didn't really help solve the problem they were intended to fix

Tinkeringbell

Should someone mention canonical posts here?

(I don't have much experience with them, but it seems like they could kinda fulfil the tutorial role)

Rory Alsop

@Tinkeringbell good call. I'm just about to feed the kids, so if someone else wants to that's cool, otherwise I'll do it later on. I think we can grab boilerplate text from another site's canonical post description

Tinkeringbell

You got baby goats?! Can I see pictures? :)

FlashCactus

I'm gonna go get some sleep, see you all sometime later! :)

Tinkeringbell

\o

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