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1:25 AM
@bobble your 💧🚢 ⬇️ 🐇 answer says "skip to the timeline if you don't want to go through the discussion" but the timeline has variables a, b, and c which don't make sense without the discussion
It also says that you may want to peek at the variables
And I thought having variables for unknown lengths of time would be fairly intuitive
@Randal'Thor Maybe a new tag for ? Or maybe use ? For now I just removed from the three questions about that play.
@bobble k
@verbose or maybe if we don't want to specify one act and/or if we want to retain for actual theatre technicalities like lighting or costume design
1:42 AM
Q: Should tags for genres and other literary terms consistently be in singular form?

TsundokuAfter noticing the tag sonnets on a question about Shakespeare's sonnet 90, I was not sure whether it referred to Shakespeare's sonnets (in which case sonnets-shakespeare would be recommended) or the sonnet as a genre. So I looked at how names of genres and literary terms in general had been spel...

1:55 AM
@bobble I don't think "short play" is a term the way "short story" or "one-act play" or "poetry" is....
I dunno literary terms, okay :p
1 hour later…
3:11 AM
5 hours later…
8:15 AM
@bobble I'm not sure if we actually have that policy, or at least not one that's applied universally. Asking to identify a poem that's mentioned in a novel? Sure, we use the novel tag and and . Asking about a fictional oral tradition that's mentioned in a novel? In the end we didn't put the tag. Maybe it's better not to include that work-within-a-work paragraph until we actually thrash out a policy on it.
@bobble How about "Use a tag for the work or type of work"? I like this because "type of work" could cover series (what type of book is this? it's a Redwall book, use the tag) and short works (what type of story is this? it's a short story, use the tag).
8:38 AM
@verbose Mm, maybe would make sense (if we update the tag wiki).
So far doesn't seem to have been reserved for theatre technicalities; it's also been used for play-ID questions and for questions about the history of theatre. It's been a general tag, but we can extend it to be used like .
Or we can just make a tag for and leave it at that.
8:49 AM
in Not a bar, but plays one on TV, 18 mins ago, by BESW
“For Lack of a Bed” by John Wiswell is a funny short story about somebody finding a novel way to deal with their chronic pain.
> [A succubus] turned into a bookstore so people would take bits of her home and hold them in bed.
9:02 AM
@Randal'Thor It's so very short
@Randal'Thor Is that the chat room for Movies and TV?
@verbose Not as short as some plays.
@verbose No, the M&TV chatroom is called the Screening Room. That's one of the RPG rooms.
I've been lurking there since I went over to pick BESW's brains about Pasifika literature a week or two ago.
@Randal'Thor ah
Q: What does "the broken nose" mean here?

Pasta AddictI am wondering what "the broken nose" means in the following sentences: ‘Dad!’ I say, ‘You terrified poor Hannah!’ I mean it was a bit of an overreaction from her, dropping her glass like that. Did she really have to make such a scene? I stifle my annoyance as Aoife begins sweeping up the shards...

@EngLitLearner I don't think ELL uses tags for authors and novels ...
9:37 AM
Q: What does "until she passes the five-year mark, Dad’s record to date" mean here?

Pasta AddictI am wondering what "until she passes the five-year mark, Dad’s record to date" means in the following sentences: Séverine, Dad’s latest wife – French, not far off my age, one part décolletage and three parts liquid eyeliner – slinks in behind him, tossing her long mane of red hair. ‘Well,’ I sa...

9:59 AM
Q: What does "a little less himself" mean here?

Pasta AddictI am wondering what "a little less himself" means in the following sentences: I notice Will and Dad sizing each other up surreptitiously. In Dad’s company, oddly, Will seems a little diminished, a little less himself. Looking at him, in his pressed shirt and chinos, I’m worried that to Dad he mi...

Q: What does "we learned" mean here?

Pasta AddictI am wondering what "we learned" means in the following sentences: I notice Will and Dad sizing each other up surreptitiously. In Dad’s company, oddly, Will seems a little diminished, a little less himself. Looking at him, in his pressed shirt and chinos, I’m worried that to Dad he might seem pr...

3 hours later…
1:19 PM
Q: What is meant when light is described as 'metallic'?

Lee ZhiyuanI have seen this used quite a few times in novels. Two examples are: Molasses buckets appeared from nowhere, and the CEILING DANCED WITH METALLIC LIGHT. -To kill a Mockingbird Aureliano...sitting against the metallic and quivering light from the window... -One Hundred Years of Solitude I am t...

1 hour later…
2:41 PM
@Bookworm should OP be poked to remove one of the examples?
They seem to be treating this more as ELL, where literary context matters less
@Randal'Thor will do
@Randal'Thor will do
2:55 PM
@bobble Yeah, I was thinking either to migrate it or to ask the OP to restrict to a single context.
Preferably the first one, since the second one is an originally Spanish work.
I'd support a migration
3:11 PM
Is it worth bringing up that when a "shorter" work is deemed significant enough to warrant its own tag (e.g. ), that the appropriate "short work" tag (here, ) should still be used?
Does this answer actually contain an answer, once you wade through the gushing over some other guy's biography?
@Randal'Thor, if you have time I'd appreciate if you looked through the light re-write of the section "Use a tag for the work or type of work", and the two paragraphs at the very end of the answer
2 hours later…
it's a weeny bit long :)
No worries
1 hour later…
6:59 PM
@bobble Looks good to me. The only thing I'd suggest is "cutting any that might be more tangential out" -> "cutting out any that might be more tangential" (a bit more readable / less confusing that way).
@bobble Not sure if we have a clear policy (or even consistency) on when to use as well as specific-work tags.
I think at some point Gareth (probably after discussion in here) edited into a bunch of questions about poems long enough to merit their own tags, like .
That'd be an argument against tagging one-act plays with as @verbose suggested - it'd potentially mean editing hundreds of questions on Shakespeare etc, if we started using the theatre tag like the poetry tag.
Belated congrats to @Spagirl on the tag badge!
7:56 PM
@Randal'Thor done.
8:20 PM
capitalization bug found :)
> ## What should I do if I need a tag but don’t have enough [reputation][17] to create it?

If there’s a tag that you want to use (following the above guidance), but you haven’t acquired [150 reputation][18] yet, you will be unable to create it. [We know that this is a problem][19]. Most commonly, the needed tag will be for an author or work that just hasn’t been represented in our questions yet.

What should you do? First, add as many pre-existing tags as you can. Then, you could leave a disclaimer at the bottom of your question, post a comment on your question, or ask in [chat][1], for a
added a section about what to do if you're low-rep. I'm 1) worried it's too long and 2) no exactly sure where it should go - I have it at the bottom, but could see it at the start or middle
The last paragraph of that is either unnecessary (the users you're addressing couldn't create it anyway) or could go in another section ("When should I create a new tag?").
What does the "We know that this is a problem" link go to?
Q: What should new users do if they're asking a question about a book that doesn't have a tag yet?

user111On chat, Ash, who doesn't have enough reputation to create tags [ yet :) ] pointed out a problem with our tagging system. Given that we use title and author tags, it's hard for new users to ask questions about obscure authors and books, because the tags haven't been created yet. How can we fix t...

8:47 PM
Ah, that's indeed a good one to link.
I was expecting it to be a meta just explaining that low-rep users can't create tags, and was going to say meh.
Maybe link it to the sentence "add as many pre-existing tags as you can" instead, and remove the "We know that this is a problem" sentence?
Since you were worried the section is too long :-)
[17] links to the "what's reputation?" help page, and [18] to the page explaining the tag-creation privilege
Yep, makes sense.
okay, incorporated this feedback
I got Sciborg to read it as a new-user perspective (they didn't know about our tagging system) and they have confirmed it makes sense
Oh, great idea!
Hopefully it should be ready to post soon?
8:56 PM
Grizzled Lit.SE veterans like me can help you find relevant links and policies, but the more important thing is to make sure it makes sense to the target audience.
@bobble Sure, I think so. You got feedback from verbose too; anything from Tsundoku or North?
Not North yet, but I linked him there
I don't think Tsundoku has said anything
Well, it's going to be CW, so anyway people can always edit if necessary.
I shall let it marinate at least until my evening. Might post then.
1 hour later…
10:18 PM
Kinda gives you a cold shiver to think what would have happened if the pasta addict hadn't learned about ELL. (And makes you understand the joy ELU ought to feel for the existence of that site.)
10:48 PM
@bobble While looking at that draft on Google Docs, I noticed that the linked answer about pseudonyms isn't entirely satisfactory, so I added my own answer.
"If the work was published under a pseudonym, use the pseudonym." That would imply we should use instead of .
Author tags should be based on the name under which the author is best known, and this varies from author to author.
hmm, sounds better than the current top answer, but this FAQ is supposed to reflect current consensus about our tagging rules
Does a newly-submitted answer, even if consistent with actual practice on the site, count?
I don't think the highest-voted answer reflects current practice on this site. My answer does, I think.
"Use a tag for the work or type of work". If the work is a novel, don't tag with .
That's covered under the sub-bullets, I thought?
That section header has been changed the most of any
"where “x” is a language" -> "where “x-language” is a language"
How is that an improvement?
10:58 PM
Because we write, e.g. , not . That proposal went nowhere.
ah, yes
hmm, better to use or your rewording?
Yes, [x-literature] would also work.
Regarding tags that don't exist yet: "leave a disclaimer at the bottom of your question". Strictly speaking, comments are more appropriate for this. A disclaimer inside the question should only be used by user who don't yet have enough reps to write comments.
Users can always comment on their own question. I'll remove the bit about putting a disclaimer in the question
"Only ASCII characters": insert a link to chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/1037?m=56493277#56493277 ;-)
Just joking.
I could link to the main-meta post to source the "only ASCII" bit, if that would help?
11:07 PM
That might be more helpful.
@Bookworm Someone wrote an entire book about the phrase "Das ist ein weites Feld". CC @Randal'Thor
Hmm, there seems to have at some point been a mismatch between my list of links and the numbers I put in the text itself
Time to fix this...
Why do you actually use that number system? (I never use it because I hate it.)
I don't like having the full text of links cluttering up my writing. Sequestering to the bottom is, to me, a more sensible policy
New arrival: an 800-page overview of philosophy in the Middle Ages. Essentially background reading for Rabelais.
@bobble But keeping the numbers in sync when you add or remove references is a pain in the ...
If you do it in SE's editor it keeps track of the numbers for you
problem is, this thing has mostly been written in Docs
11:21 PM
But Google Docs doesn't.
Minor rewrite
> If a short work always appears as part of a collection (such as an album), also tag with the collection name ([meta discussion][8]). However, if the collection is just a group of previously-made works, such as an anthology, don't use the anthology name. ([meta discussion][9])
That seems to imply that song lyrics should now always be tagged with the album of which they are a part of, even though the importance of the album has diminished since the advent of online music stores.
bobble's head explodes
O_o, I hope it can be put together again.
I just can't figure out a good way to word this bullet or, apparently, the header about work tags
11:39 PM
Do we want anthology tags? -> Don't use anthology tags. How should we tag questions about song lyrics? -> Talks about tags for albums but does not reflect actual practice...
We just don't tag albums (for questions about song-lyrics); it's just + . But if the song is part of a novel, than the question is tagged with that novel since the question is also about that novel, after all.
bobble's head continues to hurt
hands bobble an aspirin
I could've sworn I saw a collection tag 'round here
For a bunch of short stories with the same character, tag name was character name, short stories were released together?
Oh, really? That doesn't ring a bell.
It was a question within the last few months, I was confused why a short story had what appeared to be an individual-work tag
The tag had a goodly number of questions, more than 5
Nope, not a collection name, but I did remember correctly about the tag being the character's name
11:47 PM

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