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1:59 AM
0
Q: Penelope's Letter in The Shadow Of The Wind

Caitlin ConnorsPenelope's real letter to Julian says "Many times I tried to find you through Miguel, but he told me that you didn't want anything more to do with me." Nowhere in the book does it explain why Miguel, who wanted the best for his best friend, would have told Penelope to stop trying. I don't unde...

 
2:36 AM
@Mithical Huh
It'll be my first time in a mod election
We only have one mod in LSE?!
@Randal'Thor Will you be running?
 
 
3 hours later…
5:43 AM
1
Q: Where in Alessandro Manzoni's the Betrothed are the scenes with priests ministering to plague victims?

J. P.I am interested in reading Alessandro Manzoni's novel The Betrothed as it has scenes of the plague in Milan which are very relevant to our current times. I don't have time to read the entire novel so I am interested in reading some excerpts. I am especially interested in reading the scenes whe...

 
 
4 hours later…
9:25 AM
He most certainly will. He might wait a while with his nomination to not look too eager, though.
 
 
3 hours later…
12:26 PM
Way to blow his cover @NapoleonWilson.
 
Are there that many ASoIaF questions here, though?
 
No, but I think I have answered them all!
NO wait I have been slacking!
 
1:22 PM
Uh...are you sure you nominated in that the pro-tempore thread you link to?
 
It's deleted.
With a score of +12/-13.
 
@North Yes, unfortunately the other two both stepped down some months ago. (In fact, none of the original team of three is now a mod, and two of them quit SE altogether.)
@North I'm thinking about it. My main reservation is depriving the site of an active non-mod user, someone who can vote to close/reopen things without hammers (on this site in the past, I have sometimes VTCed just to put something in the queue and get the community's opinion, even if I'm ambivalent about closing it) and who can express opinions without the weight of a diamond.
@NapoleonWilson Not sure what you mean by "look too eager". It's not as if I've ever tried to hide my enthusiasm about this site.
 
1:44 PM
I'm hoping Tsundoku and/or Gareth Rees will nominate. They're both great SMEs (subject matter experts) and have done an incredible amount for this site, including in moderation aspects as well as posting.
 
 
3 hours later…
4:14 PM
@Randal'Thor Wasn't Gareth Rees a moderator here before? Or does it just feel like it because of how frequently he's around?
@Randal'Thor That is very true, and your presence as an active non-mod presence in PSE is invaluable. However, given the current situation of things, it might be good if you run. You do have a lot of experience, the most reputation on this site by far, and (I assume) good trust amongst many of the users here.
 
@North Gareth Rees joined this site roughly four months after me and was never a mod here.
 
@Tsundoku Huh.
Well I was a late joiner and kinda pop in and out of this site (my main site is Puzzling Stack Exchange) so didn't really know
Who were the other moderators besides Mith here then?
 
I thought Hamlet (who had proposed the second version of the site) and Zyerah/Aza.
 
Zyerah/Aza does sounds like a familiar name....
 
Formerly known as Emrakul, which might be familiar to a puzzling person specifically.
 
4:25 PM
Ah looks like Aza did step down
 
Aza even left SE entirely.
 
Yeah, I read the Lit. Meta post
 
the other was Mith, wasn't it?
 
Ugh it's kind of annoying not to have access to upvote/downvote ratio. Never realized how much I've gotten used to having access to that
@Skooba Yea. That was kind of a big deal.
 
and iirc there were only ever 3 mods?
 
4:29 PM
Don't ask me
 
I have never seen more than three mods on this site. (Even though Language Learning SE, which is much quieter, once had four mods.)
 
@Skooba Shouldn't you be familiar with this stuff as a candidate for the election?
 
that doesn't mean i remember everything
a lot went on the past few months/ half year
 
I don't remember everything either :-) I look up lots of stuff (but not who the mods were).
 
people come and go, change names. sometimes all that is left is a number
 
4:30 PM
Sorry, I didn't mean to come across as antagonistic, it's just those seem to be pretty major events in Lit. SE
 
I was pretty sure I knew who they were, just didn't want to miss anything. pherhaps i am too liberal with my use of question marks?
and just ask @Randal'Thor how sometimes I leave complete words out of sentences that can make a huge difference in the meaning of what I said.
 
eh, maybe I'm just not around this site enough
Though the mod election did catch my eye which is why I dropped by
@Skooba Yeah, I'm pretty sure there's a big difference between "I killed Mith" and "I didn't kill Mith"
:P
 
That's leaving out more than a word, let alone more than leaving out words to begin with, though.
 
I mean they did say "words" plural
 
True. But then you still have the problem of changing a word's entire conjugation.
 
4:36 PM
not is a big word when it is missing.
 
@NapoleonWilson Fair point
Wait @Tsundoku why is Lit. SE not part of your "communities" list? It's on its own.
 
@North That's a consequence of the LGBTQ debate last year, when I decided to hide most of the sites on my profile. Especially after reading this post by Mith.
 
oh
 
I also changed my user name a few times - from my real name to just a number, then "IkWeetHetOokNiet" and now Tsundoku.
 
wow
 
4:46 PM
I also asked myself whether I should continue as a mod on Language Learning SE. I eventually decided to stay on. But we lost one other mod during that period.
 
Having not witnessed the fiasco that was Stack Exchange during that time, it all seems so surreal
Like I come back after some 3-4 months and then boom! everything's different
 
Many of those who got involved in the discussions have some scar tissue now. At least, that is my feeling.
 
Kind of sad to think this even had to become a problem.
Woah, Gareth just instant-transmission in here
 
@Randal'Thor I'm not going to be volunteering to be a moderator—it's not the kind of thing that I am temperamentally suited to
I recognise that the moderators do a valuable job, for which I am grateful
 
5:03 PM
Temperament is not the type of argument I expected from a user who has been involved in a lot of moderation tasks and in editing question to save them from being closed or deleted.
 
What I mean by "temperamentally unsuited" is that I don't like ticketing systems — moderation (as I understand it) involves dealing with a bunch of task queues, like the flag queue. I get more than enough of that at work.
I'm happy to try to save a question if it grabs my interest, but moderation tasks don't work on that kind of basis
 
Yes, moderation is mostly dealing with that sort of small tasks. (And the occasional sock puppet or crank.) And it's your spare time ...
 
5:30 PM
may favorite game is Click the Button! /s
but I do have a lot of spare time
 
@Skooba But you still need to decide which button to click ...
 
@Tsundoku are we still anti-images in this room because a lot memes come to mind!
I am decidedly decisive in my button clicking
 
@Skooba "We"? Images without a text alternative are inaccessible to blind users. I am not aware of a mechanism to attach a text alternative to an image in this chatroom. (And nobody describes the images they post here.)
 
I know that I'm not very diligent at writing descriptions of images in my answers
 
I think very few people are.
 
5:42 PM
@Tsundoku are memes not allowed here?
 
@North I am not aware of images being prohibited, if that is what you mean. I just think that they take up a lot of vertical space, so you need to scroll more to see older messages.
 
Oh I see
 
But I am not aware of images being deleted by mods just for that reason. Such deletions, if they happen, are normally based on content.
 
5:58 PM
Perhaps we should allow memes only in the form of text descriptions
 
That's what I thought, I didn't know if there was some special thing in LSE
 
[A pretty young woman wearing red, labelled MEMES, walks towards the camera. A young man in a checked shirt walking the other way, labelled CHAT USERS, turns his head to whistle at her, while his girlfriend, wearing blue, labelled WORDS, looks at him with a disgusted expression.]
2
 
/me resisting the temptation to post the image that goes with that description
 
@GarethRees [Blue button labelled SPAM USER and a hand rapidly slamming towards it labelled MOD HAMMER]
 
[a man in a red super suit is wiping his brow, which is heavily sweating, with a white handkerchief because he is deciding which of two buttons to push, thus labeled CHAT BAN and SUSPENSION]
that was obscenely difficult for me, I don't want to do it again
 
6:17 PM
[Top panel: Two figures, labeled STUDENT and CASUAL READER are presumed to be kicking a person lying in a supine position with their knees and legs spread open, labeled THE OLD MAN BY THE SEA. A fourth man with long white hair labeled LITERARY PROFESSOR observes.
Middle panel: The man with the long hair labeled LITERARY PROFESSOR takes a sip from one of his four varieties of wine.
Bottom panel: The man with the white hair labeled LITERARY PROFESSOR joins to kick the figure labeled THE OLD MAN BY THE SEA along with figures labeled STUDENT and CASUAL READER. The man with the long hair is pres
 
6:56 PM
Wow, this room got chatty today.
 
It's my presence
 
@Skooba At maximum, yes. First 3 were appointed, then Hamlet stepped down leaving 2, then Galli was appointed to get 3 again, then the other two stepped down late last year. So 3-2-3-2-1, overall.
@GarethRees Fair enough, I respect that. I noticed you're not that active on the meta/moderation side of things, although what you do do there (editing questions into shape, getting the help centre updated, analysing questions) is always valuable.
As opposed to Tsundoku who spent his first few months mostly editing tag wikis ;-)
@North Well, the activity level hasn't gone south, we can say that at least.
 
@Randal'Thor But around me, people are always looking up
 
7:15 PM
but if we get too close we just spin in circles
 
@Randal'Thor Humble beginnings :-)
 
7:34 PM
@North It's a valuable skill, keeping conversation going.
 
@GarethRees Eh, I'm just chatty
 
8:06 PM
There are still a number of empty tag wiki excerpts. Don't be afraid to have a go at them :-) Just look at the newest ones.
 
Jan 19 '17 at 16:41, by b_jonas
@ArtOfCode Can we make a separate chatroom for memes then?
Apparently this came up before.
 
@b_jonas Technically speaking, it can be done. Is there a demand for it?
 
@Tsundoku Probably no.
 
@Tsundoku That would probably be the most irrelevant chatroom in SE, and the most spammiest
Plus, you would need to filter out all the memes that are offensive, rude, etc. and people sometimes don't know the boundaries when it comes to memes
Tl;dr, don't make one
Any general tips on tag wiki edits, what to do, what not to do?
That is, what is the expectation for LSE when doing tag wiki edits
 
8:25 PM
it USED to be needed
for about a week
 
?
Elaborate
 
right when the chat room launched
 
wait what was needed
 
there were memes all up in this [slaps roof of car] this room
 
ah
People think it's a forum, huh
 
8:27 PM
it was decided that this wouldn't be that kind of room
so fun was had different ways
 
8:38 PM
That was all a long time ago :-)
 
@North Here is some guidance about the Tag wiki format for author tags.
 
@Tsundoku Okay
 
8:58 PM
@Randal'Thor perhaps in a galaxy far far away?
 
9:45 PM
it was unbelievably weird getting the election notification
like it didn't click until now that Aza is gone and Mith resigned :(
 
0
Q: Is Hamlet a misogynist?

George HarrisClearly, Hamlet had his issues with the women in his life including Ophelia. Would you say Hamlet is/isn't a misogynist?

 
10:43 PM
@Bookworm Why did you edit that post, @Gallifreyan? Shouldn't it be closed for being too broad/invites speculative answers?
 
@North Should it? It doesn't seem too broad or speculative to me. Granted, I'm a layman who never read Hamlet, but it looks like the question is answerable within the scope of this site
 
@Gallifreyan Okay, well perhaps not too broad, but does seem like it would generate a lot of discussions, which isn't exactly something that's supported by SE, is it?
Maybe if the question was reworded a little bit to say like "what are some specific actions/quotes/references made by Hamlet that shows he is misogynistic" or something
 
@North That is a reason to edit, not close
 
@Gallifreyan Hmm, good point
 
I could edit that, but I'd rather leave voting to close to others, since my vote is binding
 
10:53 PM
@Gallifreyan Yeah, another mod from PSE feels similarly when it comes to closing. I'm not exactly familiar with all the logistics of this site which is why I decided to ask rather than just commenting right away
 
It takes 5 votes to close/reopen a question, but only a single moderator vote
Which is why mods may refrain from voting in cases when they feel they don't have the full grasp of the topic at hand
Or at least I do
 
I don't know though, it still seems like a poor question. I'm not saying you should close it, but the question feels like it came straight out from some hs English assignment.
Hamlet is a very famous Shakespearean tragedy, so it's not like there's not a bountiful number of resources already available.
Like
Not exactly a difficult subject to figure out on your own
 
SE isn't for asking difficult questions, it's for asking specific questions
In a way, outsourcing the questions
Although sometimes one figures out the answer during, or shortly after, posting
 
@Gallifreyan But part of the design behind SE is to generate good questions that provoke a thoughtful response. Perhaps it's not fair to compare it to S/O, but S/O encourages users to do their best to solve their problem first, and to show proof of effort that one did.
 
11:08 PM
I'd like to see deep, thought-provoking questions as well (especially if I could answer them), and we have quite a few of those. But it isn't inherently bad to have some of the more basic, reference-type questions here and there. And SO is by far the biggest proof of that
Given how many of my basic coding queries led me if not to SO, but to some other tech SE site
 
You do make a fair point
 
And the good thing about SE in that regard is that we can vote the better answers up, and the less better answers down, and make the posters improve their answers
Something most other websites aren't flexible enough to do
 
But in this case, it's not the answer we're discussing, it's the quality of the question
 
The two don't always correlate, and, I imagine, it'd be easy for someone with good Shakespeare knowledge to craft an exemplary answer to this question
 
but see, Hamlet is a very famous Shakespearean play. It is a bit harder to understand if you're not familiar with the language, but you could certainly outsource to different websites. After you've done that (and given some quotes yourself) and then ask the community, you're more likely to generate a unique and deeper answer
If you say, "Clearly, Hamlet had his issues with the women in his life including Ophelia (provide example and context). Is Hamlet misogynistic? I have some quotes that might support this stance (insert quotes) but are they isolated or are there further evidences?
If there are higher standards for answer quality, why not at least some of that for question quality?
I'm curious to see what other users think
 

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