The Reading Room

12:38 AM

0

Q: How many of the Songs of Innocence and of Experience come in pairs?

Some years ago I studied many of Blake's Songs of Innocence and of Experience. Many of them are very clearly paired up, an Innocence song and an Experience song deliberately written to compare and contrast with each other: not only those with identical titles such as "Nurse's Song" and "Holy Thur...

Rand al'Thor

12:48 AM

@Hamlet Soddit, I'm going to start awarding bounties to exemplary answers. I've been holding off on that, preferring to offer bounties as a way to draw attention to unanswered questions, but it pisses me off to see so many users getting thousands of rep from mostly low-quality answers, and one way to mitigate that issue is to give more rep to the people who post good answers.

heather

@Randal'Thor kudos to you =) sounds like a great idea.

i might award a bounty on one of the answers to my questions; we'll see.

part of me also wants to get enough rep to help in the review queues, so.

Rand al'Thor

Yeah, you have low enough rep that it might be worth gathering some more yourself before you start giving any away :-)

Our review queues aren't very busy though. Anything other than First Posts is rare.

Long John Silver

7

Q: What is meant by the reference to theology in The Death of The Author?

I'm looking to clarify how I should interpret the following passage from The Death of The Author by Roland Barthes: We know that a text does not consist of a line of words, releasing a single "theological" meaning (the "message" of the Author-God), but is a space of many dimensions, in wh...

roland-barthes the-death-of-the-author

Feeds

1:10 AM

Learn about #CloseReading with this Q&A about "Naming of Parts" #poetry #literature https://literature.stackexchange.com/a/2783/17?stw=2

Tweeted by StackLiterature on August 15, 2017 at 12:25 AM

Gallifreyan

8:28 AM

@Catija Now that I think about it, Sheen and Tennant are probably the people I'd like to see in the main cast of the film (assumin, of course, this isn't a hoax).

Hamlet

@Randal'Thor i think I've given away about 1000 worth of fake internet points so far.

Of course there is a difference between bad answers and useless answers. Bad answers should be downvoted, useless answers should be removed under some version of the back it up rule

Useless answers include:

Answers that just give an answer without explaining why

I.e. answers that don't back up their claims

Bookworm

0

Q: What can we learn from this character's death in "Mockingjay"?

At the end of Mockingjay, dies. What can we learn from their death? What does this teach us?

suzanne-collins the-hunger-games

Gallifreyan

9:04 AM

Judging by the activity on Neil Gaiman's Twitter, the news appear to be genuine. Good :D

BESW

10:34 AM

Happy Birthday to E.Nesbit one of the great mothers of invention - and an inspiration to many more...!@EleanorFitz… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/897390489472839680

Tweeted by LizzaAiken on August 15, 2017 at 9:32 AM

Rand al'Thor

10:58 AM

Could you clarify a bit on exactly what you're asking? Do you mean "what does their death add to the plot", or "what does it teach us (and Katniss) about the actions and motives of certain other characters", or "what broad morals can we take from it about life/war"? To put it another way, are you looking for an in-universe answer (what can we and Katniss deduce from their death) or an out-of-universe one (what morals/lessons are we meant to derive from their death)? — Rand al'Thor 9 secs ago

@Mithrandir You know me - I'm going to wax lyrical on this one whatever the actual question is ;-) But you need to clarify before I start, so I know what to rant about.

Mithrandir

sure, soon

Rand al'Thor

I can go on about the massive in-universe ramifications of that death - the deduction of who caused it, and all the other events that it indirectly causes. I can go on about the symbolism of that death, how it brings the story full circle, how it was the most effective way to drive home certain lessons, ...

Mithrandir

why not both? ;)

Rand al'Thor

Hell, you could probably get a few different questions out of it which would all be worth long answers from me :-P

That death is the most significant moment in the entire series, with the possible exception of "I volunteer as tribute!"

Mithrandir

@rand i edited to have it be OoU

maybe tomorrow i'll ask a IU version

Rand al'Thor

11:06 AM

OK.

Damn, now I gotta spend ages writing up an answer :-P

Mithrandir

11:27 AM

→ 5 messages moved to Trashcan

Bookworm

0

Q: The name of a story about a community contained within an apartment building

I read the synopsis of this book a number of years and have since been unable to remember the title or author. Searching of likely options have been unsuccessful. I remember the following details: It is about a community that is, I think, sealed within a single block of flats. At first, this ...

story-identification

Bookworm

2:48 PM

0

Q: What are the most important passages of Hamlet, and why?

I have been reading Hamlet recently, and I want to understand this reputable play further. Hope you can provide a answer for me or others who have the same question.

william-shakespeare hamlet

Mithrandir

@Bookworm POB, looks like

Rand al'Thor

Bounty but no accept. @Mith Did you just forget the tick, or are you deliberately holding off, e.g. waiting for more developments or being Hamletty and not accepting at all?

Mithrandir

I'm being Hamletty.

Rand al'Thor

Oh hey, HNQ!

Mithrandir

if you look at literature.stackexchange.com/users/58/…, almost none of those have accepted answers recently.

Rand al'Thor

3:00 PM

I'm not particularly keen on story-ID HNQs (not the best way to advertise ourselves), but any HNQ is likely to bring extra eyeballs to the site.

Gallifreyan

3:17 PM

Okay, it's official. We really do have Michael & David for our Aziraphale and Crowley #GoodOmens http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2017/good-omens

Tweeted by terryandrob on August 15, 2017 at 2:45 PM

Looks like it's settled then (cc @Catija)

Also headlines writing "Neil Gaiman's novel" really got on their nerves.

My job as Executive Producer on #GoodOmens is primarily to remind the world the book had TWO FECKING AUTHORS @Variety.

Tweeted by terryandrob on August 14, 2017 at 11:50 PM

Usage note for Headline writers. It's not Neil Gaiman's Good Omens. It's always @terryandrob & Neil Gaiman's Good Omens. Gaiman & Pratchett.

Tweeted by neilhimself on August 15, 2017 at 2:30 PM

Catija

@Gallifreyan Um... yeah. It's not just Gaiman's work.

Rand al'Thor

@Gallifreyan I'm surprised it's that way round. Surely Pratchett is still much better-known than Gaiman?

Catija

Gaiman has a big cult following and is still alive?

heather

@Randal'Thor the latest bountied question of yours, politics in Ozma, will be quite interesting to answer =)

Gallifreyan

Obviously. But Gaiman's been popular lately with American Gods and How to Talk to Girls at Parties and Norse Mythology, and there's a 140-character limit, so...

Catija

3:20 PM

Good point.

Gallifreyan

Nerdist fixed their mistake in their tweet.

Rand al'Thor

@Catija I thought Pratchett had a way bigger cult following. Maybe I'm out of date.

Pratchett has always seemed to be like a staple of British fantasy writing, while Gaiman is just some upstart who's written a few sellers.

Catija

@Randal'Thor I think that not as much in the US... ?

Gallifreyan

@Randal'Thor Ouch.

Rand al'Thor

Oh, who cares about the US?

:-P

Catija

3:24 PM

But... I don't know. I follow Gaiman on FB, so I see him post all the time.

Gallifreyan

Gaiman did have a big influence on stuff with The Sandman, to be fair.

But I think it's true that Pratchett is a bit more well-known because his books cover a wider demographic.

While Gaiman is mainly for more adult audience.

That would explain why I heard of Pratchett back when I was growing up in Russia some 10 years ago, but not of Gaiman.

Rand al'Thor

@heather I hope it gets a good answer. Political allegory in the Oz series is apparently a big topic, but I've never really read much about it, so I'm interested to learn more.

Gallifreyan

Granted, Pratchett was alive back then.

Catija

But the younger crowds remember Coraline...

Gallifreyan

I believe the number of Pratchett's works to be remembered by younger audiences outnumbers those of Gaiman's.

Also, Coraline has been made into a film, so there's no need to remember it was ever a novel.

Same for Stardust.

Catija

3:34 PM

@Gallifreyan Really? I didn't hear about the Discworld series until I was practically living in the UK.

... and in my 20s.

Gallifreyan

Maybe it's just me then.

Rand al'Thor

@Catija Discworld is quite a big thing here (bigger than it deserves, frankly).

Catija

That's all we can really go by, our own experiences :)

Rand al'Thor

And they're both British authors, so ...

11 mins ago, by Rand al'Thor

Oh, who cares about the US?

Catija

@Randal'Thor The BBC shows are nice.

Rand al'Thor

3:36 PM

There are BBC shows of Discworld?

runs to look this up

Catija

... Seriously... you're the British person!

Rand al'Thor

under development since 2011?

Catija

imdb.com/name/nm0695332

Rand al'Thor

radio drama?

Catija

Going Postal is one of them

imdb.com/title/tt1219817/?ref_=nm_flmg_wr_5

imdb.com/title/tt1079959/?ref_=nm_flmg_wr_10 Color of Magic

^Tim Curry and Sean Astin...

Rand al'Thor

3:41 PM

Oh, huh. That's even one of the Discworld stories I've read.

Whaaaaat? They made Truckers into a TV series?!

Bleh, animated.

Shokhet

4:36 PM

Odd. One follower of mine (and one random user) liked this tweet after I retweeted it. Twitter's "tweet activity" lists no link clicks, though :/

Rand al'Thor

@Shokhet Can you see who retweeted the close reading tweet?

Shokhet

@Randal'Thor I can. It was me :)

Rand al'Thor

And there I thought we had a new fan :-P

Shokhet

:)

There were three likes: one is mine, one is someone who follows me, and another from a random person.

Possibly someone who follows that guy who follows me that liked the tweet. Sometimes Twitter shows me things from people I don't follow, but that people that I follow liked. (I'm not really a huge fan of that, but whatever)

Huh. That same person (twitter.com/kassjja) just retweeted the most recent @StackLiterature tweet. Maybe it's just blind hashtag retweets?

Rand al'Thor

Too many "like"s and "follow"s in a sentence cause me to switch off.

Kids these days and their social media.

Shokhet

4:48 PM

@Randal'Thor Because you don't like Twitter and find it hard to follow a conversation about social media? ;-) :-P

@Shokhet Tags and probably keywords. That account is almost all retweets, and it seems the only common thread is language, possibly translations. If that account isn't a complete robot, I'm willing to bet that there is a huge amount of unsupervised automation.

Rand al'Thor

I wonder if there are any stats on how much having a Twitter account has helped other sites with their traffic/publicity?

Gallifreyan

5:16 PM

9

Q: Quote from mathematician-poet

I read once a quote by a mathematician (or scientist) who was also a poet and it was something similar to: As a mathematician I try to make complicated things obvious, as a poet I try to make obvious things complicated, but I can't find it online or remember who said it. Does anyone know? ...

mathematicians

^ cc @Randal'Thor

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We like to relax with high-quality Q/A about #literature. 😎📚 #books #NationalRelaxationDay https://literature.stackexchange.com/

Tweeted by StackLiterature on August 15, 2017 at 4:39 PM

Rand al'Thor

6:06 PM

Does anyone have experience with editing Wikipedia? It might be nice to add a reference to the claim cited in this question, using the source cited in my answer - SE helping to improve the wider internet!

(Yes, I could find out myself how to add a citation in Wikipedia, but life's too short and I'm sure someone round here - @b_jonas? - already has experience with it.)

heather

6:25 PM

@Randal'Thor yep, I do, i'll take care of it

'tis edited.

=)

Rand al'Thor

Awesome, thank you!

heather

np

I enjoy editing wikipedia, so.

Rand al'Thor

(and thanks for the upcoming two new badges too)

heather

?

i am not aware of my involvement in that =)

Rand al'Thor

6:46 PM

heather

i didn't upvote until now, actually.

Rand al'Thor

I like to turn Revivals into Necromancers wherever possible. If you go to the trouble of answering a really old question, might as well do it really well and go for the full 5 upvotes.

heather

my goal is always to answer well, though i've learned a lot about improving my answers on this site thanks to Hamlet - I really appreciate that.

Rand al'Thor

Hamlet is pretty hard to please - he downvotes a lot of answers - but he's always ready to provide feedback. And he's not just being grumpy and criticising everything: he does praise some answers (and it feels really good when he does).

heather

yeah, he's our resident laziness check.

heather

7:13 PM

phew @Randal'Thor, I think I've got your Ozma answer.

let me know if there's any points on which you want more citations or anything.

Rand al'Thor

7:39 PM

@heather Thanks for the answer! I do have some thoughts and suggestions (some minor, some more major), but haven't got time to write them all down now.

One general word of advice, just because I was writing it already - be careful not to stretch yourself too thin. It's OK to post a "work in progress" answer which you can go back and update as you find new info or things to improve, and it's fine to answer loads of different things, but if you post too many "work in progress" answers, you may start to lose track of them and forget to go back and improve them.

OK, I'll start to post my thoughts on that answer, but I may have to leave before finishing.

heather

i am fairly well satisfied with all my other answers; I've edited in accordance with Hamlet's suggestions and everything - though maybe they're not as satisfactory as i think them to be.

@Randal'Thor no problem, thank you.

i have to go for a bit, but i can read them when i get back.

Rand al'Thor

1) Minor point: the citations in that first bullet-list are a bit unclear. In the second bullet, why are Geer and Rochon grouped together away from Cook and Koupal? In the third bullet, why does "The Politics of Oz: A Symposium" include other things, and which of those things are separate? (e.g. why is there a semi-colon after Gessel - is that a separate item, and why does it have no title?) Maybe I'm just being dumb with this one.

2) Minor point: you use a lot of space on just providing quoted descriptions of each of the later Oz books. Is this necessary to make your point, or would it work equally well to just write your own one-sentence summary and link to the Wikipedia article on each book?

3) In the section "Ozma of Oz political background", are you saying that the plots and story goals become more political over time? Because the first paragraph is saying the in-universe political landscape is fragmented, which is a different point. If I'm interpreting your main point correctly, I suggest a bullet list touching briefly on all the Oz books (including the first ones) and describing the plot/goal in each one, to show how they start off unpolitical and then become more political.

Hamlet

7:54 PM

@heather eh. You do a lot of similar things in other answers, and there are lots of places in the answer I gave feedback on that could also be improved.

But the answer you just posted about Oz looks better.

Rand al'Thor

4) "The whole situation here is political, and it is almost certainly a general political reference." - you need to justify this. It's possible for a story to be about political manoeuvring without being an allegory for anything in real-world politics.

Hamlet

I could probably give you some suggestions but Rand is already doing that.

Rand al'Thor

5) In the last section: "It is commonly believed", "this is thought untrue by some scholars", "it is generally believed" - citations needed?

Mithrandir

@Hamlet 'ist'?

Hamlet

But again, this answer is better. Good job!

Rand al'Thor

7:59 PM

6) Presentational point: I'd suggest reorganising the answer slightly, to de-emphasise the background about plots becoming more political and emphasise the stuff about Populists and Democrats which forms the main point of your answer. But that's not really important.

That's all I can think of just now. Agreed with Hamlet that it's generally a nice answer, but I think point 4) is important: just because the plot of a story is political (get rid of the bad ruler and put the good guys back on the throne) doesn't necessarily suggest it's a political allegory.

heather

8:20 PM

okay, thank you; i'll work on it.

Hamlet

@Randal'Thor well, I haven't upvoted the answer. What I did say is that I saw clear signs of improvement.

BESW

9:41 PM

It's out it's out it's out it's -- ::tired:: Yay! THE STONE SKY is loosed upon the world. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/31817749-the-stone-sky

Tweeted by nkjemisin on August 15, 2017 at 2:12 PM

Shokhet

11:29 PM

@Gallifreyan I just obtained all the Sandman books that I haven't read yet: World's End, Kindly Ones and The Wake. I also have Overture and Brief Lives (I think I have a question or two left in BL, but I've already finished it)

Instead of requesting the books to the local branch of the library, I took advantage of an opportunity while I was in another part of town to visit a branch that had all of the books, and just borrowed them all at once :)

user15026

@Shokhet Awesome :)

Shokhet

@Ash Yep :)

It felt like being a farm boy, suddenly finding myself in a fancy office building in a large city. The branches closest to me are small things, but this branch was enormous and beautiful.

user15026

Oh that's awesome :)

Shokhet

Yeah :)

user15026

My closest branch is the main branch for my city's library, it's a lovely lovely place to spend time

user15026

11:34 PM

I remember though as a kid our local library was in a town a 15 min drive from where I lived in the country, and it was always a huge deal when we got to go there and it wasn't even that big of a library.

Shokhet

It might be worth my while to bike a few miles out of my way to visit that branch; if not just for the ability to browse the selection, there are study areas and WHOLE ROOMS marked as "quiet areas" for work.

Yeah, I also grew up with a small-ish library.

Every seen the main branch of the New York Public Library? That thing is HUGE!

user15026

@Shokhet Yes! I visited a friend in NYC once and when she asked what I wanted to do the only thing I immediately thought of was "CAN WE GO TO THE LIBRARY"

user15026

So we did!

Shokhet

Yes, it's fun!

The last time I was there, they had a museum-like exhibit all about childrens' books. That was fun.

user15026

@Shokhet I think I saw that same one!

Shokhet

11:40 PM

Looks like that exhibit took place 2013-2014. Make sense?

user15026

@Shokhet Yep, that would be around when I was there. :D

user15026

And looking at the pictures, that's definitely the exhibit I saw!

Shokhet

@Ash I just realized the same :)

Sorry, have to run now. Would love to continue this later!

user15026

For sure :D

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