The Reading Room

Benjamin

15:00

@Riker I'm scared.

Mithrandir

@Riker no. It's translated foot ball.

Riker

ah ok

@Benjamin you know when you look into the obelisk and it's full of stars? imagine it's full of round things

Benjamin

@Riker That is scary.

Riker

what would those round things look like? they'd be ROUNDER THAN ROUNDER CAN BE

Mithrandir

... Actually, translated ball foot.

Riker

15:01

but don't you have to read backwards?

or am I mixed up

Benjamin

@Mithrandir So, is that because adjective goes after noun or because right-to-left?

Mithrandir

I don't know...

Probably the first one

Riker

what's it in hebrew chars? google translate it

Mithrandir

But my grammar stinks in both languages.

כדור רגל

Riker

> soccer ball

Mithrandir

15:03

Or to be truly Israeli

כדורגל

Riker

still "soccer ball"

Mithrandir

Yes. If you translate cadur into English it's ball. Regel is foot.

Cadur = כדור

Regel = רגל

doppelgreener

I've a question about that -- Hebrew's read right to left, but do you still read and write it right-to-left in situations like this one?

Mithrandir

Yes

doppelgreener

Gotcha

Japanese comes to mind, which is traditionally top-to-bottom right-to-left, but on the web gets written as left-to-right top-to-bottom

Mithrandir

15:07

But some people will put the words in left to right and the letters in right to left

Which is confuuuusing.

Woo. I like killing chat.

doppelgreener

what, psh, give me partial credit at least

Mithrandir

...Now, the question is: why does my phone give me the suggestion 'children' after typing 'I like killing'?

Riker

lol

@Mithrandir it's not you it's the fact my fingers are going wobbly and i have to make nan active effort to type good

Mithrandir

@doppelgreener alright, you helped.

doppelgreener

@Mithrandir \o/

Riker

15:16

bc the feed is slow:

1

Q: African dystopia with children on the run

This is a book I read in 4th grade, so about 2012-2013. This wasn't really a sci-fi novel that I remember, but definitely dystopian. It was set in the future of an african nation, I don't know which one. I don't remember any futuristic tech though... There were 2 or 3 kids, I think maybe a girl...

story-identification

any ideas? I liked the book then, want to revisit it

Mithrandir

Nope, so

Rry

Riker

:/

I even got a Nice Question badge on a question that was based on a faulty premise, about something that I hadn't watched. — Mithrandir Jan 19 at 13:18

@Mithrandir how dare you

you haven't watched all of star trek?

Mithrandir

... I watched... Some blooper reels?

O_o

I haven't watched anything.

Benjamin

Here is a question: what is the book with people living inside a park as if it were the 18th century and then a disease breaks out and the female main character runs away?

Riker

no clue

Mithrandir

15:21

Was that asked here or is it yours?

Riker

not asked here looks like

Benjamin

@Mithrandir Mine.

Mithrandir

I saw that exact question in here or SFF

Riker

not here idt

Benjamin

@Mithrandir Well, I think I figured it out: Running Out of Time by Margaret Peterson Haddix.

Mithrandir

15:24

29

Q: Book where girl is raised in history museum to believe she as actually part of the time period her exhibit is based on

So, I remember being read a book in elementary school (so it was at least written by 97-98). It was about a girl in the 1700-1800's who found out she was actually part of an exhibit in a history museum - The entire younger generation thought they were actually in the time period, while all the ad...

story-identification

Yep, running out of time.

Riker

ah found my book

if anybody wants to answer go ahead

The Ear, the Eye and the Arm

The Ear, the Eye, and the Arm is a children's science fiction novel by Nancy Farmer. It was awarded a Newbery Honor. The novel is set in Zimbabwe in the year 2194. Combining elements of science fiction and African culture, the book depicts the struggle of a notorious general's three children to escape from their kidnappers in the crime-infested capital of Zimbabwe. == Plot == In the year 2194, in Zimbabwe, the Chief of Security, General Matsika, leads a battle against the gangs which terrorize the nation. His three children, Tendai, Rita, and Kuda are kept in a fortified mansion to ensure their...

I didn't remember the exaggerated features part tho

which is suprising

Mithrandir

Sure

Riker

cool

so are we burning behind-the-scenes?

Benjamin

@Riker I hope so.

Mithrandir

Hope not

Fix my image please, it's impossible on mobile

Riker

15:32

@Mithrandir jpgs don't work

Benjamin

@Riker Yes, they do, I just got it working.

A J

I have a little concern.

Mithrandir

Yes they do. Thanks &@Benjamin

Riker

@Benjamin not raw they dont

Mithrandir

@AJ ?

Riker

15:34

@AJ ?

Benjamin

@Riker No, but they do work.

@AJ ?

A J

If I post a poem from some book here, would it be a copyright violation?

Mithrandir

Fair use, I think.

Benjamin

@AJ Is it the whole poem? If so, is it for the purpose of a question or an answer? When was it published?

Riker

and is it available online freely?

Benjamin

15:35

@Mithrandir Probably would be, but we need more information to be sure.

A J

@Benjamin It's a very old poem and I'd post an excerpt that I didn't get.

Mithrandir

Then no problem Imo

A J

I will take it from a book I got.

So can't give a proper online link.

Benjamin

@AJ Well, then it should be fine. If it is problematic, I will clean it up after you post it, if you ping me.

Mithrandir

@Riker please don't edit until we reach a decision on the meta post

Riker

15:38

a bit late now but we have relaly

yours is like -3 and his is like +4

er I misclicked apparently but whatever

b_jonas

@AJ You can still reference it properly.

doppelgreener

@AJ Stanford University has a page on the litmus test for fair use. If you're providing an extract that is necessary to discuss the work for critical commentary and education, and you're not reproducing more than necessary (and not producing the entirety of the work), you're well within Fair Use.

If the work isn't even copyrighted, it's in the public domain and you can use it freely.

A J

@b_jonas I can give the name of poet and title of poem. Would it be enough?

Mithrandir

@Riker where?

Riker

on the answer

nvm that it's fixed now

Rand al'Thor

15:40

Hmm, it looks like @Riker is clearing out the behind-the-scenes tag.

Riker

yeah, because the meta post is at +4 for deleting it and -5 for not

doppelgreener

i'd have waited a bit longer than 2 hours to act on that meta discussion

Riker

sorry, I'll wait longer next time

Mithrandir

Yes, especially on a Sunday.

Riker

or just not do it

and let somebody else do it

doppelgreener

15:42

mostly it's a matter of ensuring the community in general has the opportunity to provide input

b_jonas

Wait, there are poems that are in public domain, are worthy to call literature, and can't be found on the internet yet?

doppelgreener

and "the people here within 2 hours on a sunday" are only a small section of the community

Mithrandir

Also, I don't see what's wrong with having basically the same description as sff

A J

@doppelgreener I'll just post a stanza only. And I'm not reproducing. I just wanted to understand what poet wanted to say.

doppelgreener

someone may have good ideas of what to do with that tag who hasn't posted, may provide very solid reasoning for keeping it, who knows. we can see what comes up after a couple of days, then act.

@AJ Go right ahead. Sounds like fair use. (Point of order though, posting a stanza is reproducing --- albeit only part of the poem.)

Rand al'Thor

15:43

When you act on an apparent meta consensus too quickly, Bad Things can happen.

cough riddle sandbox cough

Mithrandir

eyeroll people were desperate then.

Riker

what happened

Rand al'Thor

23

Q: Getting riddle quality back on track: a proposal for the path forward

Riddle quality is dropping. I think most of us have seen it lately: there’s been a slow slide in effort and energy put into riddles, and it’s starting to seriously hurt the site. On Stack Exchange, our goal is to optimize for pearls, not sand, and right now, we’re very much not doing this. If we ...

discussion question-quality

TL;DR: mods made drastic proposal, got +25/-0 on meta and put it into action after one day.

I came along a week later, presented a long list of reasons why the proposal was bad, and also got +25/-0 in one day.

They scrapped it a few days later.

doppelgreener

Also important in that situation is that meta question proposal votes are ambiguous: when a question is proposing something, upvotes can either mean "I support this thing" or they can mean "This is a good thing to bring up and I would like to see it discussed".

b_jonas

@doppelgreener This, yes.

Rand al'Thor

15:47

@doppelgreener Yes. That's nearly always a problem with meta proposals.

I often recommend people to limit their meta question to an actual question and post their proposed solution as a self-answer.

Note the unbiased nature of my questions here on Lit meta about recommendation and reading-order questions.

doppelgreener

@Randal'Thor I agree with both doing that and recommending people do that.

Rand al'Thor

I doubt you could tell just from reading the questions that I support one but not the other.

doppelgreener

Also, significant community measures -- especially disruptive ones -- need proportionately more time to settle things and get people on the same page.

This is not at the top of that spectrum but it isn't at the bottom either.

Mithrandir

Also, I love that the one time I bother to write a longish meta post it goes to - 5. Ah well, that's what happens when you propose unpopular opinions...

doppelgreener

@Mithrandir Yeah, that's how it works sometimes.

Rand al'Thor

15:54

@doppelgreener Yeah, they definitely jumped the gun there. But they were also very good about acknowledging that, reversing the change, and opening the floor to less drastic proposals.

That was by far not the biggest drama or proposed change that Puzzling has seen.

Mithrandir

At least the site is going to be very decided on policy by the time we go public...

Benjamin

@AJ That and the publisher would be great, but that alone would be bearable.

Mithrandir

@Randal'Thor I think the biggest was your suspension :P

Benjamin

@b_jonas Yes.

Rand al'Thor

in The Sphinx's Lair, Nov 4 '16 at 13:14, by Rand al'Thor

Mithrandir

15:56

Yep

I am

steelersquirrel

@Randal'Thor Yay! I'm going to answer your other For whom the bell tolls question. The answer that you have is ok, but I believe that there are letts that Hemingway wrote to Hotchner on who Robert Jordan was actually based on. Also, even though Hemingway denied that he was based on himself, there are still similarities between the two.

Rand al'Thor

@steelersquirrel Wait, are you sure you haven't misunderstood the question?

I'm not asking about who the Hemingway character Robert Jordan was based on.

I'm asking about whether the real-life author Robert Jordan named himself (it's not his real name) after the Hemingway character.

b_jonas

@Benjamin Wow.

Mithrandir

Benjamin

@b_jonas Especially things that are PD, but not PD in the US.

@Randal'Thor I know this show.

@Mithrandir But, what is this show?

b_jonas

16:02

@Benjamin Phineas and Ferb.

steelersquirrel

@Randal'Thor Oh. Uhm...yeah. I totally misunderstood the question. Sorry. I'm going on 2 hours of sleep ;)

Benjamin

@b_jonas Okay.

Rand al'Thor

@steelersquirrel Are you at work again?

@Benjamin The quote is perfect, but it took me a while to find an image/meme version.

steelersquirrel

@Randal'Thor No. I got off at about 1:30 am and came home to sleep and then Napoleon woke me up at 5am ;)

Benjamin

@Randal'Thor Which episode is it?

b_jonas

16:05

@Benjamin Doesn't matter. It appears in multiple episodes. It's a catchphrase.

Benjamin

@b_jonas Yeah, but I mean that photo.

steelersquirrel

@Randal'Thor Did you read For Whom the bell tolls?

Rand al'Thor

@Benjamin Series 9 Episode 1, The Magician's Apprentice.

Are you not caught up on the latest series yet?

@steelersquirrel Nope :-)

steelersquirrel

@Randal'Thor Well, I highly recommend it! I recommend any Hemingway novel. He's not sci-fi, obviously, but he is a compelling story teller.

Rand al'Thor

@steelersquirrel Oh, I have no particular bias towards sci-fi.

Have you read Orwell's Homage to Catalonia?

Very similar concept to For Whom the Bell Tolls, as far as I can tell, but even more true to life.

steelersquirrel

16:19

@Randal'Thor No. Honestly, Hemingway is the only author that I know fairly well. Animal Farm is the only thing that I have ever read of Orwell's

Benjamin

@Randal'Thor Unfortunately, where I am, I was getting it through Netflix and then they cut it off, so I have been living through plot summaries.

And I no longer have time or ways to watch anyways.

@steelersquirrel Did you like Animal Farm? If so, you should check out Swift!

Rand al'Thor

@steelersquirrel I haven't read Animal Farm (!), but Homage to Catalonia is good and 1984 is excellent.

Benjamin

@Randal'Thor Oh you should read Animal Farm, it is a nice quick afternoon read.

Rand al'Thor

Wow. Nice answer, @Rincewind!

steelersquirrel

@Benjamin I was forced to read it in High school. I don't remember much of it.

My daughter is here?!?!

Rand al'Thor

16:24

2

A: Did Phaedrus derive a final definition of quality?

Ok... Here it is! Phaedrus put Quality into two different forms one was a loose and non-metaphysical and the metaphysical one. In the first stage he doesn't define it but rather uses it to come to the conclusion that real learning doesn't come from outside of ones self but rather inside onesel...

steelersquirrel

She gets her brains from my side of the family ;)

Rand al'Thor

@Skooba Are you hearing this?

steelersquirrel

Hehehe!

Mithrandir

... Wait what?

That would be weird if Sci gets a diamond...

steelersquirrel

Huh?

Rand al'Thor

16:34

@Mithrandir Where?

steelersquirrel

Who?

Mithrandir

Mi Yodeya. He's writing his nomination now.

A J

I posted my question. I might need help with tagging.

Mithrandir

@steelersquirrel Scimonster

steelersquirrel

@AJ YAY!!!

Rand al'Thor

16:36

@Gallifreyan While you're at it editing that question, why not remove the [books] and [comics] tags too?

Gallifreyan

@Randal'Thor you mean the Halo question? I thought books and comics were relevant

Mithrandir

16

Q: Quoting from non-English literature

When quoting a book in a question that was originally written in a language other than English, is it preferable to quote it in the original version or in an English translation, or both? If one should supply a translation, should it be an official one of some kind or is it okay to do the transla...

discussion

@Aj ^

A J

Seriously, if I could translate it properly, I'd have done it.

Rand al'Thor

@Gallifreyan Do they need to be there though?

(I've been going through some of the questions linked from this meta.)

@AJ Without an English translation, your question may well get closed.

Gallifreyan

@Randal'Thor sigh revised again? Care to check the title?

A J

16:40

OK. I'll try. Give me sometime

Rand al'Thor

@Gallifreyan Nice!

Gallifreyan

@Randal'Thor those lists are pure evil

A J

People on this site are very eager to downvote and close questions.

in The Screening Room, Jan 21 at 17:01, by Napoleon Wilson

@AJ Doesn't matter. Some more non-English stuff can't hurt.

in The Screening Room, Jan 21 at 17:01, by Rand al'Thor

@AJ Go ahead! Like I said to Ankit, it's great to broaden the range of literature covered, including works in many different languages.

Rand al'Thor

@AJ Questions about non-English literature are great. Questions which can't be understood by an English speaker, not so great.

Mithrandir

It's in private beta. That's what happens

Rand al'Thor

16:44

At least until we get as big as Stack Overflow and start branching out into multiple sites each with a different language.

steelersquirrel

@Randal'Thor Didn't you and Napoleon tell him to ask it as is?

A J

Better if I stay out of this site.

until it grows enough.

Rand al'Thor

13

Q: Is just English literature on topic?

Proposal: Literature Hi, I'm good in English, Italian and Spanish literature. So, Which type of Literature is on-topic in this site? Just English or Literature in other language too?

arts

^ see the answers to this question

@AJ :-(

Mithrandir

Don't be discouraged! Stick around, you'll see that everything will work out.

3

doppelgreener

Also somewhat reinforced here:

-10

A: Should we have language-specific tags (excluding one for English)?

My thoughts are that we should concentrate on English (and English translations of foreign language texts). That will very likely give us more than we can cope with.

"let's just focus on English" -10 score

Rand al'Thor

16:47

> Arises on the rule of human,
Develops on the convergence of the bond,
Convergence and the sanctions will stay in!
Partner, will endure everything!

@AJ Google Translate gives me that ^

A J

in The Screening Room, Jan 21 at 17:00, by A J

Literature isn't my cup of tea. I have a few questions about Harivansh Rai Bachchan's poems, but I doubt if someone has actually read them.

Mithrandir

Too many oneboxes o_o

A J

@Randal'Thor That's not proper translation of what poet said.

Rand al'Thor

@Gallifreyan (just remember the 'rule' about not editing too many questions at once)

@AJ Can you improve on it?

Mithrandir

Anyway, @Randal'Thor do you have time to read my Dwarfs answer again and tell me what needs improvement?

steelersquirrel

16:49

@Mithrandir He is just trying to point out that 2 mods encouraged him to ask the question, even though it wouldn't be in English.

Rincewind

@Randal'Thor Thanks!! Took me all day. Got quite a headache now lol

Didn't know this room was here

steelersquirrel

@Rincewind My daughter!! You're here!! YAY!!

Rincewind

@steelersquirrel Hello!!!!!

Riker

lol ninja'ed

Rincewind

@steelersquirrel I am!!!!!

@Riker ha!

Riker

16:51

:P

@Rincewind btw who's the girl in your avatar?

steelersquirrel

Hehehe!

Rincewind

:)

@Riker A made up girl...

Riker

thanks captain helpful

is there a specific book that character is from?

or is it just a nice looking drawing

Rincewind

@Riker lol it is a avatar I made with a x-men character creator so... what I look like in my head

Riker

ah nice

you have a purple curtain behind you? :P

Rincewind

16:53

lol

@Riker Nope... My hair doesn't do that either so...

:p

Mithrandir

Now the question: how old are you?

Rincewind

@steelersquirrel How are you?

@Mithrandir me?

Mithrandir

Yeah

steelersquirrel

@Rincewind I spent about 3 hours answering one of Rand's questions over here last night. It's like he loves to torture us ;)

Rincewind

@Mithrandir er... 25?

Yeah I think I turn 25 this month

Rand al'Thor

16:54

@steelersquirrel No, we encouraged him to ask questions about non-English works. Not to ask questions which aren't written in English.

Mithrandir

I guess it's a family thing

Rand al'Thor

Important distinction :-)

Mithrandir

You're internet people :P

Rincewind

@steelersquirrel I sometimes get this impression yes...

Riker

@Rincewind lol

Rand al'Thor

16:55

@Rincewind Well, now that you do - welcome!

@steelersquirrel :-(

Rincewind

@Randal'Thor very...

@Mithrandir yes... so are you.

lol

steelersquirrel

@Rincewind I'm good!

Rincewind

good!

Riker

@Mithrandir how do you pronounce "סיסמה"?

Mithrandir

@Rincewind I am?...hm.I am.

steelersquirrel

16:56

I'm getting ready to go to sleep, actually.

Riker

google says "sisma", more or less

Rincewind

@Mithrandir Yes you are... lol

Riker

or "seesma"

Mithrandir

@Riker why do you want to know about passwords?

Riker

2

Q: Origin of the phrase "Open Sesame"

The phrase, "Open Sesame", is a curious one indeed. Until a few days ago I foolishly believed that it was derived from a slurring of words, "Open, says me". But after coming to the story of Ali Baba And The Forty Thieves in my copy of The Arabian Nights, in which Ali Baba opens a magical door w...

arabian-nights

steelersquirrel

16:57

See you guys later :)

Mithrandir

@Riker yes

Rincewind

@steelersquirrel Oh!! Sleep tight then!!

Riker

see ya squirrel!

@Mithrandir cool, thanks

Rand al'Thor

Night @steeler!

Riker

imma write up an answer when I get back from church, thanks for the translation @Mithrandir

Mithrandir

16:58

Welcome

Rincewind

Cookies

Mithrandir

Hmm. Is it possible to unprotect a question after you protected it?

A J

I'm undeleting my question with the best translation I could give. But the harm is already done.

cc @Randal'Thor @Mithrandir ^^

Mithrandir

Vote reversed, close vote retracted

Rand al'Thor

@Mithrandir Yes.

Mithrandir

17:04

Okay thanks

Won't protect anything now, don't worry :)

b_jonas

@Randal'Thor But it's hard while we don't have any site mods.

Rand al'Thor

@b_jonas We do have a few people with protect/unprotect powers.

But they're very unlikely to be needed until we go public.

b_jonas

Ah right, you get protect powers from just XP.

Mithrandir

3 iirc

Rand Riker and I can protect.

b_jonas

I will be able to do it in 400 XP on Sci Fi

Mithrandir

17:09

I just want another 2600 on SFF

Then I'll be at 10k.

And I will be happy.

Rincewind

going to go for now... will be back later!

:)

Mithrandir

Adios

22 mins ago, by Mithrandir

Anyway, @Randal'Thor do you have time to read my Dwarfs answer again and tell me what needs improvement?

Rand al'Thor

@Mithrandir I'm literally just about to leave, sorry.

Don't worry, I'll get to it sooner or later.

b_jonas

Not that protection powers on Sci Fi will help me. I'll probably never have to use them. We have more than enough high XP users there who catch questions to protect quickly.

Mithrandir

18:49

Heh. As soon as I left, the chat died...

Alright, I've been convinced about behind-the-scenes.

Benjamin

@steelersquirrel Are these really your relatives?

@Mithrandir Yes, it did.

@Randal'Thor Or one site with many languages is the way I would prefer to go.

@AJ No, it isn't.

@Rincewind Are you really his daughter?

Mithrandir

@Benjamin *her if you're taking about Squirrel

Benjamin

@AJ No, it isn't, it is better now.

@Mithrandir Oh true.

And I just missed the editing window.

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