Should the subjunctive answer have been deleted?

Mitch

Mar 20, 2019 13:27

@MattE.Эллен Also, did you really need to delete the highly upvoted subjunctive answer?

why was it flagged?

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch well, I don't know. people were complaining and Lawler says it's wrong. it seems if it is wrong and highly upvoted then the SNR is out of whack

Mitch

There's nothing deleteable about it (it's totally wrong of course)

@MattE.Эллен But that's not a deletable offense

Is it?

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch isn't it? it seems like I'm stopping people from getting the wrong message

Mitch

Also, what is 'SNR'?

Matt E. Эллен

If I see a +93 answer I'm going to think there's some merit to it

@Mitch signal to noise ratio

I can only downvote it once

Mitch

Mar 20, 2019 13:31

@MattE.Эллен I think that's crazy too.

Matt E. Эллен

if it were highly downvoted, it probably wouldn't be flagged

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен really?

I'd go the whole other way

I'd expect it to be flagged then

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch yeah, in the short term, but then it would have been deleted long long ago

I mean, if it had escaped detection for so long

Mitch

and JLaw didn't say "This is crap, get rid of it", not that he's an authority on moderation anyway

Matt E. Эллен

he didn't

Mitch

Mar 20, 2019 13:34

@MattE.Эллен It hd to have been very visible because so any people voted up on it.

Matt E. Эллен

chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/72677/2018/2/4

it's discussed there, I'm reading up on it

Mitch

There's all sorts of wrong answers out there that are well-written and insightful and only mildly upvoted, that because of this precedent, should totally be deleted.

@MattE.Эллен seems pretty inconclusive.

that is there's no swing one way or the other, some seem pro, some not.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch I only see what gets flagged, alos I'm no linguistic scholar

Mitch

Black and White says they repeatedly flagged it, but if you read the answer, and all the comment threads related, there's nothing flaggable or deleteable about it.

What's to stop someone flagging other answers that they don't agree with.

Voting is for disagreeing.

Matt E. Эллен

I'm going to look at meta meta to see if there is anything about deleting highly upvoted but demonstrably wrong answer

Mitch

Mar 20, 2019 13:41

@MattE.Эллен OK, but there's no recourse, I can't vote to reopen.

Matt E. Эллен

and if not, ask about it

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен It's not demonstrably wrong

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch can't you vote to undelete (10k privilege?)

Mitch

(I strongly disagree with it)

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch it says "always go with subjunctive" which is demonstrated as wrong in tchrist's answer

Mitch

Mar 20, 2019 13:42

@MattE.Эллен FIrst thing I tried. "This question was closed by a mod and so is not undeleteable"

Matt E. Эллен

or always go with "were"

@Mitch hmmm

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен TChrist is no linguistic scholar

well, OK maybe he is. Also I agree with his answer.

But that's not a reason to delete a competing answer that a lot of (totally idiotic) people upvoted.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch but I don't see linguistic scholars disagreeing with his answer

they clearly do with Edward's

16

A: Should horribly wrong answers be deleted?

Yes, absolutely. That's why high rep users can vote to delete. That is also why there is a peer pressure badge, to encourage users to delete their own downvoted content. We want to identify harmful answers, but we do not necessarily want them to stick around. Even though their scores are negativ...

admittedly their example answer is downvoted

Mitch

The answer was given in 2010.

Matt E. Эллен

so?

Mitch

Mar 20, 2019 13:48

Fine

I don't think it is obviously wrong.

Matt E. Эллен

Feel free to bring it up in our English Language & Usage Meta. just because meta meta says something, doesn't mean we have to go with the flow

@Mitch but you do think it's wrong

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен starting a qn on meta, there seems to be a lot of other similar questions.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch cool :) it'd be good to get community input on this

Mitch

I wanted my question to be general, and not specifically about the subjunctive

but now I feel like it's ben done before.

maybe I should make it about this qn specifically.

@MattE.Эллен fine.

@MattE.Эллен I disagree with it. I definitely think it should stay (be visible) with the commentary (so people can judge).

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch with 93 upvotes, don't you think it's misleading?

upvotes are our main signal that something is correct

Mitch

Mar 20, 2019 14:00

maybe I'm wrong about the subjunctive

People used to use the subjunctive all the time, as it were.

Nobody bats an eye nowadays if you don't... except a number of people.

The best answer would show the difference. (I think tchrist does it)

Matt E. Эллен

if you was wrong wouldn't Lawler or Kosmo or JSBangs or Peter Shor have said "good show, Edward, this makes perfect sense"?

Mitch

bats an eyelash

Matt E. Эллен

:D

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен it's a matter of principle, rule of law.

I guess there's a place for judges overriding a jury.

but this was overwhelming popularity.

Matt E. Эллен

that's true. a lot of people did agree

the tyranny of the masses

Mitch

Mar 20, 2019 14:04

If it were under 5, it'd be very unnoticeable, delete away!

um... maybe not.

but anyway

Matt E. Эллен

lol

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен but presumably this is all not about opinion and reference, but about evidence.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch how do you mean?

Mitch

my snap answer to the q would have been the exact opposite of Edward's "No one uses the subjunctive anymore"

(and it would have been popular too)

and also, well, not totally wrong..

some people still use the subjunctive

and also we've shown here a few instances where we'd use it.

Matt E. Эллен

so you're saying I should delete your hypothetical answer, too?

Mitch

Mar 20, 2019 14:09

@MattE.Эллен the whole analogy with democratic principles, voting, majority over minority is about poliitcal items that people -want-, not about what is 'true' (or statistics about which phenomenon occurs more often)

@MattE.Эллен If you're going to delete this extremely highly voted one...

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch but is Edward's answer even trying to be correct? it reads quite tongue in cheek

"Use were and you'll sound smarter"

Mitch

(that was JLaw's point re Machiavelli)

and ML's point about how that's not acceptable nowadays.

(which bothers me)

Matt E. Эллен

true. I don't want people to go back through old answer and ask for references

tbh I don't want people to do it for many new answers either

why does everyone keep overgeneralising?

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен Also complaining about people's activity on the site (eg "That guy doesn't care enough to update" as if anybody does (except for sumelic (one of the few actual linguists)))

Matt E. Эллен

Mar 20, 2019 14:25

@Mitch (certainly noöne whose first answer is a single liner on a SWR)

Mitch

Mar 20, 2019 14:39

still writing a meta question

Matt E. Эллен

taps finger on watch

j/k I don't wear a watch

Mitch

oh

now that I'm done, do you still want a watch?

Matt E. Эллен

what flavour is it?

Mitch

I knew soeone who had a new fancy watch every 6 months or so, not rolex but... decorative, like sometimes with a big face and huge roman numerals, that math watch, or one time with all the numbers had fallen off. to the bottom.

And I never said anything but wondered 'WTH'.

why bother.

and then I got it. It's just decoration. well, maybe rough time, like 'it's the afternoon' but I'm pretty sure that's obvious

it's just jewelery

so if you like that, why not a watch.

any way, all the planes are gonna crash on 03:14:07 UTC 2038-01-19

what good is watch going to be then?

Matt E. Эллен

Mar 20, 2019 14:57

@Mitch it'll still be a watch if you're not on a plane

@Mitch good question

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