Why scientists don't make money

Sir Cumference

Jun 28, 2016 03:40

Why do applied physicists make way more money than theoretical physicists?

user116211

Jun 28, 2016 03:59

@SirCumference applied physicists have more change of getting any job.

0celo7

@SirCumference Because one discipline is useless and the other isn't?

What kind of question is that lol

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Oh boy...

Can there ever be something I like that pays?

0celo7

No

Sir Cumference

Thanks...

0celo7

In general, real world skills pay more than useless academia bullshit.

Sir Cumference

Jun 28, 2016 04:04

I have no idea what I'm gonna major in

user116211

@SirCumference maths?

Sir Cumference

I would've loved to go into astronomy, but god knows there's not enough jobs

0celo7

Finance, clearly.

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Yeah clearly

0celo7

@SirCumference You have the nose for it.

Sir Cumference

Jun 28, 2016 04:05

@0celo7 That's not what I'm trying to say

user54412

@0celo7 No. Data science. No one goes into finance any more.

user116211

C'mon every theoretical physicist is not jobless ;\

Sir Cumference

I just don't want to spend another 15 years in school and struggle to get a job that doesn't pay

0celo7

@ChrisWhite It was a joke, he's Jewish.

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Oh...I get it...

Goddammit

I'm laughing through gritted teeth

0celo7

Jun 28, 2016 04:06

@ChrisWhite Please tell me you know Morse theory

user54412

@SirCumference Who says they do? The applied physics professors don't. And the further you are from academia, the less the subject on your degree matters.

user54412

@0celo7 I take it that's not about dots and dashes?

user54412

I vaguely remember it being mentioned somewhere -- was it Milnor?

Sir Cumference

@ChrisWhite Doctors apply chemistry, and they make way more money than theoretical chemists

Engineers make more money on average than nuclear physicists

user54412

I'm pretty sure doctors don't do any chemistry to speak, and very little biology either.

0celo7

Jun 28, 2016 04:08

@ChrisWhite Well...I need to show given a submanifold $X\subset\Bbb R^N$ there is a linear function $f:\Bbb R^N\to \Bbb R$ such that $f|_X$ is Morse.

user116211

@Sir: If all it comes to money, then why not become a Mexican drug Mafia ;P

Sir Cumference

@ChrisWhite Neurologist?

user54412

Also, it helps that they have a medieval guild santioned by the government (in the US), so they can charge whatever they want.

0celo7

Rick Ross - Mafia Music

►

Sir Cumference

@MAFIA36790 It's not all about money, but I don't know how Imma support myself in the future

Astronomers have to go to school for an additional 15 years after college, they struggle to find jobs, and it doesn't pay well

0celo7

Jun 28, 2016 04:09

@SirCumference That's what my sister studied

user54412

@SirCumference Doctoring is about memorizing what you're told, and doing it without question. Ask anyone who's been to med school.

0celo7

She hated being poor so she moved to LA and did banking

user54412

@SirCumference 15?!? :(

Sir Cumference

@ChrisWhite Even the people who invent medical drugs make more money than quantum chemists

@ChrisWhite Yep bud, at least according to Rob Jeffries

user116211

@SirCumference quantum chemists

Sir Cumference

Jun 28, 2016 04:10

Starting salary: 50k

Quantum chemistry

Quantum chemistry is a branch of chemistry whose primary focus is the application of quantum mechanics in physical models and experiments of chemical systems. It is also called molecular quantum mechanics. == Overview == It involves heavy interplay of experimental and theoretical methods: Experimental quantum chemists rely heavily on spectroscopy, through which information regarding the quantization of energy on a molecular scale can be obtained. Common methods are infra-red (IR) spectroscopy and nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) spectroscopy. Theoretical quantum chemistry, the workings of which...

0celo7

@SirCumference god damn

that's what shit-tier engineers get after 4 years

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 That's for astronomy

user116211

@SirCumference That's theoretical chemists, but yeh I got it.

Sir Cumference

It eventually evens out to 100k, if you're lucky

But that takes another 15 years

user116211

Well, what about those who are perpetual students?

user116211

Jun 28, 2016 04:12

How do they earn money?

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 It's a bit less than nuclear engineers, but they're similar in salary

@MAFIA36790 They don't.

user116211

ooh.

0celo7

@SirCumference NE starting is like 70k after 4 years

not fucking 15

Sir Cumference

Going for another 7 years takes a lot more money than it pays off

user54412

The going rate for postdocs in astro (and indeed most physical sciences) is 40k in cheap places, 60k in expensive places, 75k if you win a fellowship. And that's after 5 (if you're at my school) to 7 (if you're everyone else) years of grad school.

Sir Cumference

Jun 28, 2016 04:13

@0celo7 Oh no no no

Starting salary of an astronomer is 60k. They need to go to school for another 15 years after high school tho

0celo7

how does 15 even make sense

4+7=11

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 God knows, but I've asked two astronomers (one from the Astronomy SE, the other IRL) and they both gave that estimate

user116211

@SirCumference minimum 10yrs is necessary in every field.

0celo7

every?

user116211

I mean natural sciences and math.

Sir Cumference

Jun 28, 2016 04:15

The second one basically urged me not to go into it: "Don't go into astronomy if you want to be rich. Only go if you are really, really, really dedicated"

user54412

^ well that's true

Sir Cumference

@MAFIA36790 Yeah but they don't start out with 50k usually

0celo7

Don't do 99% of things if you want to be rich...

Sir Cumference

Doctors can make 500k after working for 30 or so years

user116211

@SirCumference true

Sir Cumference

Jun 28, 2016 04:16

Only astronomer that makes that much is Neil deGrasse Tyson

kevin Tah N.

Hey guys

Sir Cumference

And he didn't even discover anything! (to my knowledge)

0celo7

Just do spinal surgery @SirCumference

user54412

@SirCumference So does the chair of my astro department. You should compare overall values, not extreme cases.

kevin Tah N.

I have a giant favor to ask

who has time to help me see through a paper

Sir Cumference

Jun 28, 2016 04:17

@kevinTahN. Don't be an astronomer

0celo7

@ChrisWhite how does one figure out department head salaries

kevin Tah N.

@SirCumference lolz

0celo7

I wonder how much mine make

Sir Cumference

@ChrisWhite How do you know that?

To be honest

Maybe I should become a doctor, but there is blood...

I'm not a fan of blood

0celo7

are you scared of blood?

user116211

Jun 28, 2016 04:18

@SirCumference I hate blood

Sir Cumference

Shaddup

D:

user54412

@0celo7 Public universities report it. Private universities, you have to listen to gossip, note their house sizes, and look into how much endowment is set aside to pay them on interest. It's not easy, but it can be done.

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Nah, I'm just scared of having to mess around with bloody patients

Like wtf these people's lives depend on me

kevin Tah N.

so who wants to volunteer to read the ideas I would try to come up with

0celo7

@ChrisWhite How would I go about checking this out

I'm at a public

Sir Cumference

Jun 28, 2016 04:19

You know that kind of stress?

0celo7

@SirCumference you're clearly not doctor material

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Thanks...

0celo7

@SirCumference yw

Sir Cumference

So what's next? What else makes good money in the science field?

I'm honestly desperate, my parents are telling me astronomy is a "micky mouse major"

0celo7

Win the Nobel.

kevin Tah N.

Jun 28, 2016 04:19

@SirCumference Medical Physics

0celo7

Win the Nobel and the Fields.

user116211

@SirCumference You have to work with dead bodies full of formalin...ah!!!

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Yeah I'll work on that

0celo7

And a few Millenium problems.

Does the Fields give you money @ChrisWhite ?

Sir Cumference

Researchers make no money...

Duck

kevin Tah N.

Jun 28, 2016 04:20

@SirCumference Medical Physicist or computer scientist (Senior programmer or research scientist)

Sir Cumference

Anyways

0celo7

@SirCumference If money is your main concern you're not researcher material

user116211

@0celo7 you have to become isolated from the society to solve those problems ;P

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 I just need to support myself, man...

kevin Tah N.

make money on the side, do research for the love

user54412

Jun 28, 2016 04:21

@0celo7 I actually don't know.

0celo7

@SirCumference support yourself != rich

kevin Tah N.

at least that's my plan

Sir Cumference

@kevinTahN. Huh...well what job should I go into mainly then?

I'm a theoretical guy

user116211

@SirCumference academia

Sir Cumference

I guess comp science...

@MAFIA36790 You mean as a professor?

0celo7

Jun 28, 2016 04:22

that's hardly theoretical if you want to make money

user116211

@SirCumference yep

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 I know...that's the only applied thing I'm good at

0celo7

What's so hard about understanding that 99% of theory does not pay

Because it's 99% useless

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 The "not" part

kevin Tah N.

@SirCumference I have to confess I don't know anything about what physicist (theoretical) make, but I think they must be pretty rich. Most of the ones I know live in rich communities and have rich company of friends

0celo7

Jun 28, 2016 04:23

@kevinTahN. Tenured profs, sure

Sir Cumference

@kevinTahN. I don't need to be super rich, I'd just like to be comfortable with a profession I like

0celo7

But what % of physics students get tenure

user116211

@0celo7 it would be very less, i betcha

Sir Cumference

HDE is gonna go into astrophysics

Good luck to him...

0celo7

@ChrisWhite So no idea about my Morse problem?

kevin Tah N.

Jun 28, 2016 04:24

@SirCumference me too. I used to be want to be like you, and had no care for money and believed in happiness and love, but I had no money and everyone treated me poorly, and I also noticed I could not do the things I loved. It changed me

user54412

@0celo7 b2.caspio.com/dp.asp?AppKey=949210001195c88527a3436d9668

Sir Cumference

@kevinTahN. Oye, man...I know...

0celo7

@ChrisWhite whoa what's this

kevin Tah N.

@SirCumference Money is the fuel that determines where we go in life

Sir Cumference

@kevinTahN. Sadly, and those who have a passion for paying professions are lucky

Plus there's no astronomy jobs in NY (where I live)

Go figure

Stupid light pollution

kevin Tah N.

Jun 28, 2016 04:26

@SirCumference wow

0celo7

@ChrisWhite Jesus these salaries are crap

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Which?

0celo7

@ChrisWhite how did you find this?

user54412

I'm that good, what can I say

kevin Tah N.

@SirCumference I was just in NY, it is a cool place with tons of great people and cool meetups. There is no other place like NY

Sir Cumference

Jun 28, 2016 04:27

@kevinTahN. I know... ;-;

Sigh...

user54412

I'm starting to think that @SirCumference is talking about actually operating a telescope... which these days is done by pretty much a separate group of people from the scientists who use that data.

Sir Cumference

@ChrisWhite Oh yeah...still, no jobs in NY

I've researched

I'd have to move to like Arkansas or something

user54412

No, there are no telescopes within 1000 miles of NYC.

Sir Cumference

@ChrisWhite Where do you think you're gonna work?

kevin Tah N.

Well someday I hope to get offered a Physics job, but until then, I have to first see if I could even make it into a grad program someday, when my financial situation is stable

Sir Cumference

Jun 28, 2016 04:29

NASA accepts people like an Ivy League school does

As in, 5%

Then again, you got into Princeton XD

user54412

@SirCumference Hope? A university somewhere in the US. Expect? Something vague and computery in the Bay Area, like everyone else my age.

kevin Tah N.

You guys are fine, don't worry. I am sure you will figure it out

0celo7

@kevinTahN. Doubtful

I'm not sure what to do here

Sir Cumference

@kevinTahN. Maybe. The best answers I've found online are "If you are worrying about money, you're not cut for the job" or "You won't be driving a Mercedes, but you'll survive"

0celo7

Maybe I need that "most functions are Morse" theorem

Sir Cumference

Jun 28, 2016 04:31

Which are good answers, I guess...

I'm more worried about the location.

And time needed to study before I can get a job

And the difficulty of finding a job

0celo7

Kanye West is just too good

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Aren't you a bit worried tho? About finding a job in your area?

Not to be rude

0celo7

@SirCumference I don't have an area

I'm a military kid

I grew up on two continents and in 4 states

As long as it's not Florida or some other miserable shithole, I'll be fine.

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Er, where do you think you'll be working after you get a PhD?

0celo7

Unless I get married, which would constrain me.

kevin Tah N.

Jun 28, 2016 04:33

@SirCumference if have heard that if you have a good advisor, and are generally nice (and still have your innocence) and genuinely enjoy what you are doing, it should all work out.

@0celo7 I grew up all over too

Sir Cumference

@kevinTahN. I hope I'm a nice guy, and not sure what you mean by innocence

kevin Tah N.

lol

Sir Cumference

I'm the most innocent guy I know in terms of, you know...

0celo7

@SirCumference No, not really

Sir Cumference

That's not something I pride myself in

0celo7

Jun 28, 2016 04:34

What

@SirCumference Go grab some ass on the subway

Sir Cumference

Hell god no

That's sexual harassment

0celo7

Only if she doesn't like it.

Sir Cumference

No, it's still sexual harassment

kevin Tah N.

@SirCumference well the world is strange, that's all I meant, but There are plenty of cool Universities out there,

Sir Cumference

Chances are she won't like it

kevin Tah N.

Jun 28, 2016 04:35

hehe

0celo7

@SirCumference Who are you gonna trust on this, me or you

Sir Cumference

I'm not horny enough to grab a random woman's ass

0celo7

One of us is not single

Sir Cumference

...

Sigh...

I give up on things

kevin Tah N.

lol

Sir Cumference

Jun 28, 2016 04:36

But in terms of knowledge about anatomy, I'm also super innocent

So that's fantastical...

XD

0celo7

lol did not expect that to onebox

user54412

...

Sir Cumference

LMAO

Ok I'm done

kevin Tah N.

So who wants to be my critic for the next month. I want to seriously try to write some paper. Does anyone have time to may be look at the crap I will be writing and say something about it:/

I don't even know how this is done

0celo7

damn Morse theory

user116211

Jun 28, 2016 04:39

@SirCumference You can join Wall Street, BTW.

user54412

Don't expect promises up front. Just write something and drop it in this room. Since no one here is working anyway someone will probably look at it.

Sir Cumference

@MAFIA36790 Yeah no

kevin Tah N.

Do I compute something and then write a story about what it means?

hehe

0celo7

@ChrisWhite No one is working?

Sir Cumference

@kevinTahN. Just make sure it's not something like this

kurims.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~motizuki/…

user116211

Jun 28, 2016 04:39

Econophysics

Econophysics is an interdisciplinary research field, applying theories and methods originally developed by physicists in order to solve problems in economics, usually those including uncertainty or stochastic processes and nonlinear dynamics. Some of its application to the study of financial markets has also been termed statistical finance referring to its roots in statistical physics. == History == Physicists’ interest in the social sciences is not new; Daniel Bernoulli, as an example, was the originator of utility-based preferences. One of the founders of neoclassical economic theory, former...

user116211

hmm.

0celo7

@ChrisWhite if I don't work I have to deal with an angry Brazilian geometer and the DHS

Sir Cumference

God knows what that's saying

kevin Tah N.

@SirCumference cough cough. . . I would try to make it less like the mentioned paper. . . . :)

user116211

@SirCumference It's simply saying go to the Wall Street after graduating in physics

Sir Cumference

Jun 28, 2016 04:42

@MAFIA36790 Yeah ok

user116211

and there is an assured decent salary.

Sir Cumference

@MAFIA36790 I have no interest in that

user116211

Unless something bad happens when Trump comes.

kevin Tah N.

@SirCumference @MAFIA36790 how much do those Wall street guys actually make?

Sir Cumference

The only thing I have coming for me is $50k in astronomy and a bunch of SE rep on Astronomy

That'll be my life

user116211

Jun 28, 2016 04:43

@SirCumference yep ;))

0celo7

I'm literally stupid

user116211

@kevinTahN. don't know.... but they say there is a good salary ;\

Sir Cumference

The only solace will be when I have enough rep to match my salary

0celo7

rep cannot be negative.

user116211

Hmm. What about Lumo? How does he earn money?

0celo7

Jun 28, 2016 04:44

Koch bros. probably

user116211

He is not in academia also ;\

user54412

@kevinTahN. 300k the moment they graduated college, give or take

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 True, I'd be losing a lot more money than I'd be earning if I went to school for 15 years

user116211

@SirCumference why not get a scholarship?

Sir Cumference

@MAFIA36790 Easier said than done

kevin Tah N.

Jun 28, 2016 04:45

@ChrisWhite OMG please if any of you make it there, tell me how to do it lol, that sounds epic

user54412

@SirCumference Uh, grad school in the sciences pays you, you know

user116211

well, but of course there's a possilbility.

Sir Cumference

I actually said "easier done than said"...

I'm losing it

user116211

@SirCumference There are grants also for research.

Sir Cumference

I bet there's some obscure judaism scholarship

user116211

Jun 28, 2016 04:46

Funding, I would say.

Sir Cumference

I was told to always look into obscure scholarship

@0celo7 Wow...

0celo7

Let's change the subject to something that came up in my philosophy class

Sir Cumference

Yeah good idea

0celo7

Is there any truly racially insulting thing you can say to a white person?

Sir Cumference

Yeah. Call them "cracker" or "whiteboy"

user116211

Jun 28, 2016 04:48

@0celo7 white person?

Sir Cumference

Or "mayo"

user54412

@kevinTahN. The vast majority of those people are alpha-male types. They all went to Ivies, went to all the best frat parties. They type that walk in the room, size you up, shake your hand hard enough to let you know who's boss, and then talk about playing some pickup basketball after work.

0celo7

@SirCumference No one gets insulted by those.

user116211

Why would you want to do that?

Sir Cumference

^

@0celo7 You really shouldn't speak for everyone

user54412

Jun 28, 2016 04:49

→ 1 message moved to Trash

Sir Cumference

I give you an example and you claim "no one gets offended by it"

0celo7

@ChrisWhite is being mean

user54412

I'm saving you from trouble.

kevin Tah N.

@ChrisWhite hehe I am certain that that's not me , plus I wont want to live that kind of life everyday hehe

0celo7

@SirCumference A small minority might.

@ChrisWhite Oh I'm sure

Sir Cumference

Jun 28, 2016 04:50

@0celo7 So racism is subjective, I guess

End of story?

0celo7

@SirCumference Ok, how about "societally recognized"

Sir Cumference

@0celo7 Subjective

Not defined well at all

Racism is subjective however you look at it, and it depends on the relationship between the person saying it and the person receiving it

@0celo7 Also why do you have a philosophy class?

0celo7

@SirCumference Lack of intelligence

I'm going to sleep

Sir Cumference

'Night

Same here

'Night y'all

The h Bar

Participants