In which badp argues that you have to know what you're talking about before you click on buttons

badp

May 23, 2016 16:16

it's weird that something as simple as "you do have to know what you are talking about before you vote to close" is any controversial

KutuluMike

that's not the point.

badp

"NO I NEED TO BE ABLE TO DECIDE ON THE FATE OF EVERY SINGLE QUESTION ON THE WEBSITE, AND SO DOES THE ASKER"

KutuluMike

the point is, I as a user should be able to judge a question without knowing the answer.

badp

I think that is absolute horseshit

we have some strong rules that let you do that

KutuluMike

otherwise the entire user-moderation system is useless.

badp

May 23, 2016 16:17

the WHOLE POINT of the user-moderation system is that by outsourcing moderation you can find ~5 people who know what you're talking about

otherwise it would all just be in the hands of moderators

KutuluMike

why allow every high-rep user to VTC every question?

murgatroid99

@badp So, if nobody knows the answer, the question has to stay open?

GodEmperorDune

interestingly enough, @sterno's answer calls for the dev speculation text to be reworked (which it has) and @GraceNote's answer talks about NARQ and Too Localized, neither of which exist anymore

badp

and you would be voting jack shit

KutuluMike

why not require them to demonstrate knowledge of the tag, for example?

badp

May 23, 2016 16:17

@murgatroid99 seems reasonable to me

Frank

@badp ...hence why we have several close reasons because we can't know the answer.

badp

@KutuluMike that only works for the bigger tags once they have grown bigger

KutuluMike

@badp so if I asked a question about astrophysics and no one in gaming knows the anwser you can't VTC it?

MadMAxJr

Wow, this arguement is still going on?

badp

like me, you are trusted with a power in the hopes that you will click on the button only when you are reasonably sure

KutuluMike

May 23, 2016 16:18

@MadMAxJr slow day. nothing else happening.

badp

@KutuluMike we know for a fact that it's not about games, so we can close it no problem.

MadMAxJr

6 hours, 40 minutes to Overwatch.

KutuluMike

@badp then if I know for a fact that the queston is asking about something that is not answered in canon, I should VTC it.

badp

@KutuluMike yes?

KutuluMike

if there's a chance that the game may tell me the answer then that's one thing.

I'm not even saying that closed question was closed legltimately.

badp

May 23, 2016 16:19

well

I have to know that for a fact since my VTC is binding

Dragonrage

@MadMAxJr 6 hours and 40 minutes until other people start playing overwatch and making me jealous

KutuluMike

but I am saying that question is a bad example, because it may not qualify as 'not answered in-game'

badp

you merely have to be strongly confident about it since it takes 5 of you to actually close the question

committing sudoku

@Dragonrage Well, you could just play Legends of Titans instead

I hear it's a real Final Combat killer

Grace Note

Hm?

badp

May 23, 2016 16:20

@KutuluMike if you don't feel sure about it, by all means, don't answer and don't close?

Dragonrage

@committingsudoku I own Overwatch, I just am a responsible adult, so I have to do this thing called work while everyone else plays.

GodEmperorDune

@GraceNote sorry for summoning you, i was discussing an old meta post of yours

committing sudoku

@Dragonrage Oh, I thought you didn't have it. This is what I was referencing

badp

the whole point of outsourcing moderation is that you can get away without making calls you're not confident about

committing sudoku

imgur.com/a/Khf8Q

Dragonrage

May 23, 2016 16:21

just a tidbit for people interested in overwatch lore, Blizzard has stated that they are making up the lore as they go

KutuluMike

@badp I think we may be talking across each other.

@badp I'm saying that any scope policy that requires me to know the answer before deciding if a question is on topic, is a stupid policy.

GodEmperorDune

@Dragonrage they usually do

KutuluMike

you appeared to be saying that it was not, because that is a "mythical" issue

GnomeSlice

Petition beseeching Metacritic to stop using IGN as legitimate source of game reviews draws support of leading cultural thinkers worldwide.

Tweeted by DPRK_News on May 23, 2016 at 1:59 PM

lol

KutuluMike

but now it seems like you are saying the opposite of what I interpreted

Grace Note

May 23, 2016 16:22

@KutuluMike Because it is a stupid policy.

badp

@KutuluMike and I'm telling you that you are entitled to being wrong, but I do strongly believe that you should have enough knowledge about the subject matter to reach a conclusion

2

Grace Note

But that's not the same as "You have to know what you're talking about before you vote to close", to use what I think were badp's words earlier but I already scrolled back down and am too lazy to double check.

committing sudoku

KutuluMike

@badp but I don't need to be knowledgable about the subject matter to know if any of the other close reasons apply, so why is this one special?

Frank

@KutuluMike Welcome to my world!

KutuluMike

May 23, 2016 16:24

as you said, I can tell if a question is not about video games without knowing the answer

or that it's an id question without an artifact

or that it's opinion based.

Frank

If you have to know something about the answer before you can vote on it, we end up with crappy consistency.

badp

@KutuluMike it is special because people think you need to be knowledgable about the subject matter to know if the close reason applies, so no other close reason need you to be knowledgable about the subject matter

KutuluMike

why is this one policy special, in that it's ok to say "you can only apply this policy if you know the answer"

badp

think about it this way though

Lazers 2.0

0

Q: Pokemon Alpha Sapphire- Fabled Cave not working

On Pokemon Alpha Sapphire I've been trying to collect the legendaries but it's not working. Some of the spots to find them are missing and sometimes the battle won't initiate. I'm currently having this problem with Zekrom. I can get to the place, even though it doesnt show the mirage spot but i...

pokemon-oras

badp

May 23, 2016 16:25

why is it that when you get 3k on gaming, you can't vote to close on stack overflow?

Frank

@badp That's just an argument for wholesale one way or the other.

badp

network bonuses are already a thing

Frank

Leaving it in the middle means this happens.

GodEmperorDune

@badp because SE didn't make the network bonus high enough

badp

but somehow you never get a bump to 3k everywhere

Wipqozn

May 23, 2016 16:26

I think we should just ban all questions

badp

@GodEmperorDune maybe that's because you need to have some knowledge of the subject matter before you VTC

KutuluMike

except id questions.

Wipqozn

Then we wouldn't run into problems like this

badp

just maybe.

Wipqozn

@KutuluMike itg.stackexchange.com

Frank

May 23, 2016 16:26

@Wipqozn I like this idea. Ensign, make it so!

KutuluMike

and minecraft programming questions.

GodEmperorDune

@badp nah i should be able to farm rep on a site where its easy to get rep then go wreak havoc on all the other sites where its hard to earn rep

KutuluMike

those are ok

badp

I've always been working to minimize the number of cases where we can VTC without looking. This hasn't necessarily been very successful.

murgatroid99

@badp Reputation isn't subject matter knowledge. It's a measurement of how much the site trusts you

Frank

May 23, 2016 16:27

@badp Or, perhaps, it's to ensure you have an idea of what SE does, and the current site's scope.

badp

@murgatroid99 but if it trusts you on gaming why doesn't it trust you on stack overflow

@Frank but if it trusts you on gaming why doesn't it trust you on stack overflow

murgatroid99

@badp Because those are different sites

badp

it's just a matter of reading the meta, right?

Frank

@badp Because we don't all follow the same rules.

badp

you don't need to be super experts in videogames to apply the game-rec rule.

you just need basic english.

GodEmperorDune

May 23, 2016 16:28

@badp but something like opinion based on gaming is going to be different than opinion based on workplace

GnomeSlice

store.steampowered.com/app/356420

badp

if you truly were supposed to VTC questions about stuff you didn't know about, you would be able at some point to VTC network-wide

Frank

@badp Apparently you do, as we regularly have arguments about them.

GodEmperorDune

@badp so are you speculating about SE developer intent now?

badp

@Frank some askers are more stubborn than others.

Frank

May 23, 2016 16:30

I gotta admit, while I don't agree with it, @badp makes a compelling argument.

GnomeSlice

I wrote something for no reason and it felt fucking great. “How to Win in L.A. (Just give up.)” https://medium.com/@BridgetPhetasy/how-to-win-in-l-a-just-give-up-62a85dfd9294#.swxd57i48

Tweeted by BridgetPhetasy on May 22, 2016 at 9:27 PM

badp

@GodEmperorDune does SE know what your network rep is? yes it does. Is it used anywhere? Yes, on chat.

Grace Note

@GodEmperorDune Is this a request that I should say stuff now?

Frank

@GraceNote You should always say stuff.

badp

@Frank dawwwww

Private Pansy

May 23, 2016 16:31

The new Steven Universe episode "Steven Floats" is about [spoilers]! Who'd have thunk that?

GnomeSlice

normal stuff that looks dumb in vr dot tumblr dot com https://t.co/2wpf9i9uFo

Tweeted by internetofshit on May 23, 2016 at 4:16 PM in reply to internetofshit

Frank

Seriously.

GnomeSlice

hahahahaha what even

Frank

Say, "stuff"

Grace Note

Too bad. From now on I'll say "things"

Frank

May 23, 2016 16:31

...booo.

GnomeSlice

we can still stop this https://t.co/Lr3FDKc5r3

Tweeted by internetofshit on May 23, 2016 at 4:24 PM in reply to internetofshit

Wipqozn

@GnomeSlice No we can't

It's too late

There's no hope

GnomeSlice

Can't get the gif out of the first one to post it

here we go

Dragonrage

so i checked my work email this morning, and there was 234 unread emails from the build server

GodEmperorDune

@Dragonrage y u break build

badp

May 23, 2016 16:35

@GnomeSlice if we do this for generations we might even grow wings!

that's how it works yes?

KutuluMike

@Dragonrage is your build server trying to sell you boner pills?

GodEmperorDune

@badp yeah, just grind it out

eventually your skill in wings will level up

Dragonrage

@GodEmperorDune i mean, i cant even run builds, i just have to fix the stuff that is breaking the builds

@KutuluMike no, apparently someone was running builds and rebuilds all weekend.

every time a build starts, it sends me an email, and every time it fails/succeeds it sends me another email

GnomeSlice

gearblocksgame.com

GodEmperorDune

@Dragonrage so configure the build machine to only email when it breaks

Grace Note

May 23, 2016 16:38

I like @badp's analogy towards network-wide privilege levels. It's not a direct parallel, but the concept can still be extended and applied on a site-wide level within the different scopes inside of the site.

In which badp argues that you have to know what you're talking about before you click on buttons

The Bridge

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