Googled answers discussion.

agent86

Feb 3, 2012 17:56

did we have a ruling on whether or not it's OK to post powerlord's comments to meta on my own? Should I continue to wait?

@RonanForman why dislikes? boo on dislikes.

Sterno

@agent86 I'd think he'd have done it by now if he was going to.

bwarner

@agent86 I wouldn't post his comments. But you can certainly bring up the topic yourself.

agent86

hmm

bwarner

You don't have to mention him at all. I'm sure he'll make his opinion known.

agent86

I'm kind of of two minds on the subject - I'd like to get it off my chest, but I also don't want to make the issue/drama any worse.

bwarner

Feb 3, 2012 17:59

@agent86 I totally understand. I'm just saying, if you want to bring it up, I'd just bring it up without mentioning him or his specific comments at all.

Sterno

It's definitely an issue I'm curious about, completely unrelated to the elections. Pretty much all of my SWTOR answers have been a mix of personal knowledge + web searching

agent86

@bwarner yeah, I'd like to address his statements though. I don't know how I could do that without mentioning them.

I could rephrase them, but then I'd feel like I was putting words in someone else's mouth

or creating strawmen.

OrigamiRobot

@agent86 I think the issue of answer rot is a 100% valid concern, but "Google answers" aren't the source of the problem. I don't even think they are necessarily a problem at all.

user2334

Seems like something that could be addressed in the Town Hall Chat, or in an "Ask the Candidates" meta post

Sterno

3

Q: Is it really acceptable to ask questions that are already easily googled?

I just saw this question here on Gaming.SE: Terminology: Gosu? The term "Gosu" is explained with a very quick Google. The first hit is Wikipedia's own page on the term (which the first answer here inevitably links back to). Is there really any benefit to encouraging this type of question here -...

There's also that related issue. Some answers are simply too large for one person to have personal expert knowledge of

(like all the datacron locations in SWTOR)

they're easily google-able, though clearly someone didn't bother

bwarner

Feb 3, 2012 18:03

@agent86 I think its perfectly reasonable to phrase your thoughts as answers to general questions, without making it feel like you're attributing those questions to someone. I think that is pretty common on meta.

user2334

@Sterno Related, but not the same. The concern is more over questions that are subtle/complex if you know the subject matter deeply, but are being provided Googled answers from those that don't

Sterno

@MarkTrapp Probably true. Powerlord's comments weren't really specific enough for me to know exactly what he had a problem with

Ronan Forman

When we become the #1 site for game facts we wont have this problem.

user2334

@Sterno I might be projecting, though. It's happened on a number of occasions on my questions; just had a "I never played the game, but here's a 30 second Google search" answer on an final-fantasy-13-2 question the other day

agent86

@MarkTrapp well, my response is kind of long and it has implications beyond the current elections.

Sterno

Feb 3, 2012 18:06

@MarkTrapp Yeah, I've seen those. Or the ones who don't even bother with the Google search and post a random guess. I've never seen @agent86 post answers like that though, and he was specifically targeted. Granted, I haven't read every single answer he's ever written.

@agent86 And sorry, when I reference you I don't mean in any way to imply that all your answers are googled (not that I'd care if they were).

Ronan Forman

If the level of depth isn't what's wanted from a google, then don't upvote it.

bwarner

@MarkTrapp To be fair, you asked a question that was impossible for anyone to legitimately have an answer to at the time (barring a Japanese import version where the answer might not be the same anyways)

agent86

@Sterno yeah, I've earned a reputation for it, and I inadvertently encouraged it. I'm at least partly to blame, although I hate being singled out.

bwarner

In that case it seems OK to say "This is what is known so far, I'll change it if I learn otherwise"

user2334

@bwarner A question that's hard to answer doesn't deserve incorrect or bad answers; questions can stay unanswered for a couple of days.

bwarner

Feb 3, 2012 18:09

I believe it was Jon Skeet who said it was OK to post a guess as long as you made it clear that is what it was.

user2334

The goal is to convey expertise, not random information. That's what the rest of the internet is for.

Tristan

@RonanForman So, I completely forgot what my photoshop request was... =\

bwarner

I'd rather have a provisional answer that uses the information available at the time then no answer at all.

Ronan Forman

This is only really a problem if people are voting for the answers that are googled.

Vote with your upvotes people.

Sterno

@RonanForman And even then it's only a problem if the answer sucks

user2334

Feb 3, 2012 18:10

@RonanForman They are, which is part of the problem. Not to say that @agent86 is doing it at all, but Powerlord's complaint is that agent86's reputation largely comes from Googled answers that people are upvoting without knowing any better.

Ronan Forman

Exactly, so its not the fault of the googlers at all, it's the people who vote for them.

bwarner

And obviously you should be willing to be downvoted for guessing without reasonable background, as happened in today's Diablo 3 question.

Lazers

0

Q: What are the best weapon to use in MW3 survival mode?

I have started playing MW3 recently and have completed 13 rounds in Resistance map. I have been using Assault Riffle ACR 6.8. What kind of weapons I should use for survival mode where I can get more bangs for my buck?

modern-warfare-3

Ronan Forman

@agent86's rep isn't from googling, it's from research there's a big difference.

Sterno

@RonanForman well said

Grace Note

Feb 3, 2012 18:12

Yay for research!

Ronan Forman

@Sterno I always say things well. or really badly.

user2334

@RonanForman There is, but voters aren't making that distinction. To go back to the FF13-2 question I was referring to, an answer that was Googled ("researched" if you will) got 3 up-votes, even though it was incorrect. Who are these people up-voting it?

bwarner

@MarkTrapp The source of the answer should be irrelvant. Good answers should be upvoted, bad answers should be downvoted. This whole thing about googling answers is just a distraction.

OrigamiRobot

As I've said before, I think the only problem with "Google answers" comes from the larger problem of First Answer Wins

Ronan Forman

@MarkTrapp It's not research then, research requires at least 2 distinct sources.

OrigamiRobot

Feb 3, 2012 18:14

people upvote fast answers and then those answers get accepted and nobody ever checks the non-accepted answers to see if they are better

FallenAngelEyes

@MarkTrapp This is why I don't really upvote answers on games I don't play. It's hard for me to discern stuff like that.

OrigamiRobot

"Nobody" meaning average users

Wipqozn

@OrigamiRobot Yeah, but that's a problem with the site as a whole, and not just googled answers.

Sterno

14

A: How to clear "Storm the Sheep" on extreme in Defender's Quest?

I found it pretty easy using all level 20 troops (with level 22 librarian), using some of the advice from previous answers. The sheep ate it just past 1/2 way. The general strategy was to follow the sheep with 3 unboosted ice mages for the first 1/4 of the path to build up slow debuff duration, ...

@OrigamiRobot Counter-example!

FallenAngelEyes

Unless it's extreme in one way or another (really good or reeeeally bad)

Wipqozn

Feb 3, 2012 18:15

@Sterno He did say "Average" users, and I agree with him.

OrigamiRobot

@Wipqozn Thats my point. Singling out googled answers will not defeat the problem.

user2334

@FallenAngelEyes Yeah, exactly: I try to do the same

Sterno

@Wipqozn The guy who changed that answer only has 163 rep, and changed it a few days after he'd accepted one

Ronan Forman

@FallenAngelEyes Exactly, even if people post it in chat saying they should have more rep.

OrigamiRobot

We almost need a way to further incentivize keeping answers up to date.

bwarner

Feb 3, 2012 18:17

@MarkTrapp Assuming you're talking about the New Game + question, that answer was deleted within a couple of days, so it looks like the system worked itself out pretty quickly.

Wipqozn

@Sterno I don't think @OrigamiRobot was saying it is always the case, but it usually is.

Sterno

@Wipqozn Oh, fine, beat down my optimism! :P

FallenAngelEyes

@RonanForman Yeah, you could easily write out an answer that's long, detailed, and looks good but is still wrong. If I don't play the game, I can't know that by looking at it for an objective judgement, so I don't vote one way or the other in that case.

OrigamiRobot

@Sterno then he is an above-average user

@Sterno You obviously haven't worked in IT :P

bwarner

Do we have examples of incorrect answers that have never been corrected or contradicted? Presumably not, since the reasonable action to take would then be to fix it.

OrigamiRobot

Feb 3, 2012 18:18

@bwarner There are a lot of outdated minecraft questions.

user2334

@bwarner It did, but counter-example: lots of views, 10 up-votes, comment saying "this isn't helpful, you just quoted the official guide", and no deletions

John

@bwarner I can give you at least one incorrect answer that got upvoted 9 times. Note that this answer was never right.

user2334

It seems more Googled, misleading answers stay than are deleted/updated

Wipqozn

@OrigamiRobot I'd say there is a difference between "outdated" and "wrong". Outdated answers were correct at one point.

Ullallulloo

@John But then it got corrected.

John

Feb 3, 2012 18:19

@Ullallulloo By me, but it still has a score of 7.

OrigamiRobot

@Wipqozn I agree, but they both need the same action.

Ullallulloo

@Wipqozn I agree there, but that's probably the bigger problem.

Wipqozn

@OrigamiRobot I agree, I just want to emphasize there is a difference.

Sterno

Alright, so who is going to bite the bullet and write up a meta question about this? :)

Wipqozn

@Sterno I assumed @agent86 was doing that right now.

Unless he is still deciding if he should wait for powerlord.

bwarner

Feb 3, 2012 18:21

@MarkTrapp Presumably somebody found it helpful, even if you didn't. It seems presumptuous to assume that there are all these people that are just voting with no justification. And it certainly doesn't seem like that answer is wrong, just maybe doesn't contain the detail you would like.

@John Which one?

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