Discussion of synonym removal

Koviko

Aug 4, 2012 18:01

@MarkTrapp Hello. Instead of wrestling with the comment text limit, I'd figured I'd jump into Bridge.

Is it okay to have meta discussions in here?

user2334

Yes

Koviko

Alright. So, I feel like maybe I'm missing what is being said.

To clarify to anyone else, this is regrding the meta post:

-1

Q: Remove the tag synonyms for [world-of-warcraft] on [wow-cataclysm] and [cataclysm]

There are two tags that are subsets of world-of-warcraft and have been incorrectly made synonyms: cataclysm wow-cataclysm "Cataclysm" is a subset of World of Warcraft, it is not an alternate spelling for it. There are tons of questions in World of Warcraft that are not about Cataclysm. Tag sy...

user2334

So there are two things that are getting conflated together, which I think is causing the problem: 1) the 2.0/3.0/4.0/5.0 patches that Blizzard releases before expansion launches to bring the game up to date with their latest mechanics and 2) the actual expansion

user2334

Everyone gets the former, and you can't play the game without the former. So questions about that stuff rightly belongs in the world-of-warcraft tag

user2334

But the other stuff, the stuff you can only get as part of buying an expansion pack, is a subset of all that is World of Warcraft, it's not the exact same thing as World of Warcraft, which is what a tag synonym entails (think color vs. colour, or world-of-warcraft vs. wow)

Koviko

Aug 4, 2012 18:04

@MarkTrapp That distinction seems... arbitary, though.

I mean, what is accomplished by saying that the new talent trees are not Cataclysm, but Dragon Soul is?

user2334

@Koviko How is it arbitrary? We treat every other game the same way. The only game we seem to care about when it comes to patches coinciding with DLC/expansions is WoW

Koviko

@MarkTrapp That's because of the nature of the game. I mentioned Minecraft because it's also a game where we make special cases.

user2334

@Koviko Minecraft follows the same structure: mandatory patches are considered minecraft. If Mojang ever released an optional expansion, that'd get its own sub-tag

Koviko

@MarkTrapp You don't have to update Minecraft in order to play it, though.

And both games have servers that support older versions

Granted, WoW's are outside of the ToU.

user2334

@Koviko You don't have to purchase Cataclysm to play World of Warcraft, either. Everyone got 4.0. Not everyone got Worgens, Goblins, etc.

user2334

Aug 4, 2012 18:08

4.0 != Cataclysm. It's separate

Koviko

@MarkTrapp I understand what you are saying. What I don't understand is why.

@MarkTrapp What would be the point of making the distinction between 4.0 and Cataclysm?

user2334

What's the point between making a distinction between Skyrim 1.6 and Dawnguard? They're separate things. One's the main game, the other one is optional DLC

Koviko

@MarkTrapp I didn't even know Skyrim had a DLC. But I guess the difference would be in the style of the games.

While you CAN play WoW without the most recent expansion

You really... can't.

It's not common practice.

user2334

Yes, you really can. It is common practice. Blizzard makes beaucoup money doing it

spugsley

@agent86 that may be true but @Mana fucking replaced pictures of cute dogs with pictures of dolan. How could anything be more evil than that?!?!?

Koviko

Aug 4, 2012 18:11

@MarkTrapp Maybe we disagree on the meaning of the term "common practice"

I'd say the majority of players play with the most recent expansion installed.

user2334

@Koviko It doesn't matter; it's beside the point regarding tag synonyms. A tag synonym is something that means exactly the same thing as its master. Cataclysm is a subset. It doesn't matter that whether it's common practice or not, it's not the same thing as World of Warcraft.

Koviko

@MarkTrapp Then maybe we should be removing the tags instead of separating them.

I was under the impression that the synonym was created because it was extraneous information.

There's no reason to say "my question is about Cataclysm" if Cataclysm is the current expansion.

user2334

@Koviko They're effectively removed, and we've been removing them for MoP. Like I said, whether we should even have the expansion tags is separate argument. I simply want to remove the synonym

Koviko

@MarkTrapp In that case, it sounds like more of a nitpick than anything. Maybe what we should be discussing is the removal or insertion of expansion tags for WoW.

user2334

@Koviko Saying "my question is about Cataclysm" is shorthand for saying "I want info for >4.0 WoW". But it doesn't preclude questions about Cataclysm-specific content, like the new zones or Worgens or Goblins or whatever. Whether we need a tag to distinguish that is a whole other story

Ronan Forman

Aug 4, 2012 18:16

►

Koviko

@MarkTrapp In our current state, there is a strong argument for why we would need expansion tags

Since, at the moment, we are discussing two expansions

And, in terms of validity, we should be separating the two.

user2334

@Koviko Call it what you will, it's incorrect and needs to be fixed, because it's causing copycat tag synonym suggestions for MoP, and causes confusion for other games when people can rightly ask "Why not do the same thing for game X? Why have expansion tags at all?"

Koviko

However, in doing so in the interest of formality

That would mean it'd be formal to do the same for all existing WoW questions.

user2334

@Koviko Removing the tag synonyms lets us start to explore that: I know right now it's hell of confusing to have a contest for MoP content but not have a tag for it, leading me to manually create a list of MoP questions.

Koviko

@MarkTrapp Yes, I agree. That is very frustrating. And the post about the contest said something along the lines of including all world-of-warcraft questions, even though that was only to simplify the filtering process.

Which means that we probably should have a separate tag if we are going to disqualify non-MoP questions.

user2334

Aug 4, 2012 18:22

Right: tags are meant to be meaningful collections of content people would follow in their own right: questions about MoP-specific stuff meets that criteria

Koviko

@MarkTrapp Yeah, I remember seeing that description before and feel that it definitely applies to MoP right now. If removing the synonym is just the first step, then I'm behind you.

user2334

I get that when 5.0 is released, you can't play a pre-5.0 Warlock, and questions about them need to be only tagged world-of-warcraft. But a question about Pandaria? Why not have an MoP specific tag?

user2334

@Koviko That's all I'm asking for right now: if there's a way to clarify that in my question, I'm all for it

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