The Frying Pan

SAJ14SAJ

6:06 PM

Chili powder :-)

I am glad it turned out. A good meat loaf is hard to do.

Sobachatina

@Mien Congratulations!

Mien

Thanks :)

I was glad too :P

We couldn't stop eating it.

@SAJ14SAJ I was thinking that next time, I should try a chili meatloaf, a meatloaf with all the chili spices I use + tomato based sauce on top, and serve it with some beans.

I'm curious how that would be.

Anyone tried this?

SAJ14SAJ

I put some chili powder in my last one, but not nearly enough.

i would want to use some fresh or canned chilis as well, along with the onions and other aromatics.

Meat loaves eat up seasoning.

Mien

@SAJ14SAJ Sounds not too bad!

We don't have canned chilis though.

SAJ14SAJ

I did put some mustard powder in, which gave it a nice edge.

Really?

Mien

6:10 PM

@SAJ14SAJ I didn't have it on hand unfortunately.

@SAJ14SAJ Yes. We also have almost no fresh chilis.

SAJ14SAJ

They are pretty common here.

Mien

Wow.

Once a year, I can buy pickled jalapenos.

SAJ14SAJ

Can you get a pablano over there? They have fantastic flavor, and often good heat.

Why only once a year?

Poblano

__NOTOC__ The poblano is a mild chili pepper originating in the state of Puebla, Mexico. Dried, it is called a chile ancho ("wide chile"). The ripened red poblano is significantly hotter and more flavorful than the less ripe, green poblano. While poblanos tend to have a mild flavor, occasionally and unpredictably, they can have significant heat. Different peppers from the same plant have been reported to vary substantially in heat intensity. A closely related variety is the mulato, which is darker in color, sweeter in flavor and softer in texture. One of the most popular peppers grown i...

Mien

@SAJ14SAJ Nope.

@SAJ14SAJ Because then, it's mexican week in that store :P

SAJ14SAJ

@Mien Mexican week? Wow. It is hard for me to imagine not being able to get chiles and other mexican food products. Maybe you have more access to fine European ingredients. Trying to think of one Nutella? Nah.... Balsalmic vinegar? Parmesan?

Mien

6:15 PM

@SAJ14SAJ We have those three at almost every store, yes.

I think we have a different offer/supply of vegetables.

And meat and a lot of other things :P

SAJ14SAJ

The thing is... well, not almost every store for true balsalmic and parmesan, but even the regular stores have the lesser versions. And good stores have the real thing.

PLUS chiles.

Mien

Oh I see.

SAJ14SAJ

What vegetables are common there that we don't get?

Squash? No native to the 'mericas.

Mien

Actually, I bought the bad balsamic once and it is in my pantry now :( Is there anything I can do with it to make it better?

SAJ14SAJ

Peanuts? Again, 'merican native :-)

Mien

6:17 PM

Seldom do we have squash.

SAJ14SAJ

I don't knowwhat is bad about it?

Mien

We have quite a lot of root vegetables.

SAJ14SAJ

Chocolate? Another 'merican native.

Mien

@SAJ14SAJ It's from Modena :P

SAJ14SAJ

Its from Modena and it is bad?

Mien

6:18 PM

@SAJ14SAJ Chocolate of course! I'm from Belgium :P

SAJ14SAJ

@Mien Where in Belgium does cacao grow? :-)

Tomatos? 'merican again.

Mien

@SAJ14SAJ The balsamic from Modena is not real balsamic vinegar.

We have white asparagus!

SAJ14SAJ

Its a EU controlled appelation, or whatever they call it, balsalmica de modena, no?

Mien

@SAJ14SAJ Yes.

SAJ14SAJ

That is true, we usually get our asparagus green.

Mien

6:19 PM

We also have endives/chicory

SAJ14SAJ

So is your vinegar bad in some way, or you are jus tmakingfun of Modena?

Mien

I seldom see them in American recipes.

SAJ14SAJ

We get chives and chicory, but they are not very popular.

I know! Corn! Nope, 'merican again!

Mien

@SAJ14SAJ I think you don't understand what I'm saying. cooking.stackexchange.com/a/25089/4580

derobert

0

Q: Oneboxing Wikipedia includes processing instructions like __NOTOC__

Someone oneboxed the Wikipedia Poblano article in chat, and it showed up with NOTOC in front: __NOTOC__ is a MediaWiki processing instruction, of course, and really ought not show up in chat. (Also, that's seriously the wrong image, but I believe there are already bug reports on that.)

Mwahaha, stole your bug!

Mien

6:25 PM

Oh, it has nothing to do with Modena, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balsamic_vinegar

@SAJ14SAJ Brussels sprouts!

SAJ14SAJ

@derobert What is one box?

@Mien I know that there are many knock off and not true balsamics, but I have never heard of a bad one with the seal. They are supposedly fanatics for quality control.

derobert

@Mien reduce it and add a little sugar, maybe

Mien

@derobert I was thinking of reducing it :)

SAJ14SAJ

@Mien Brussels sprouts are very popular for a vegetable that icky!

Mien

I'll see...

Sobachatina

6:28 PM

@SAJ14SAJ They're tasty if cooked correctly.

SAJ14SAJ

Can you give us a picture of your vinegar bottle, @Mien?

Mien

I'm not allowed to cook them by my bf :P

@SAJ14SAJ Why?

Sobachatina

Of course you probably hate them but your tastes have been all but invalidated at this point.

SAJ14SAJ

@Sobachatina I begin to wonder if i am supertaster. I dislike all cruciferous vegetables, and hate Brussels sprouts the most. Cauliflour is the most tolerable. Sicne it doesn't taste cruciferous.

derobert

@Mien looking it up, CI suggests reducing by half over very low heat, adding a little sugar, and some port

Mien

6:29 PM

I didn't buy the really good balsamic vinegar. I bought the cheaper, knock-off product. It's not that bad, but it's not very good either.

SAJ14SAJ

@Mien Curiosity. Wondering if it has the seal.

Mien

@derobert Thanks! Hmmm no port here atm.

@SAJ14SAJ Seal?

SAJ14SAJ

@Mien Ah :-) When you said, de modena, I was assuming it was the kind with the controlled name.

Mien

@SAJ14SAJ Well, the knock-off product has de modena also in its name :P

SAJ14SAJ

Mien

6:30 PM

Oh, it does not have that.

It has a screw top :P

SAJ14SAJ

@Mien But no official seal from their governing agency of the official name. I feel better now, because the real thing is really, really expensive.

Mien

And just a paper label.

@SAJ14SAJ Yes yes :) Don't worry :P

SAJ14SAJ

@Mien Sadly, i think you can improve it by pouring it out. Or just use it in recipes where it is a background ingredient, and not a star player.

Mien

I think we can buy more/better cheeses than you guys.

Jefromi

Balsamic vinegar from other places can be pretty good too - I've found some decent ones made in Napa here.

SAJ14SAJ

6:32 PM

@Mien Well, you can get unpasteurized cheeses for sure, which are illegal here.

@Jefromi Is anyone doing methode tradizionalle (or however that is spelled) here in the US?

Jefromi

Also related: http://www.cooksillustrated.com/tastetests/overview.asp?docid=10133
and https://plus.google.com/106596156816636840956/posts/6uYr16sWUZJ

napavalleynaturals.com/Grand-Reserve-Balsamic-Vinegar/p/…

SAJ14SAJ

@Jefromi Yeah I have a CI subscription.

Well, the web site.

Jefromi

It's definitely not as incredible as some I've had before (in nice Italian restaurants) but it's a huge improvement over the common stuff in grocery stores, and not nearly as expensive as the imported stuff.

Mien

@Jefromi Thanks!

derobert

@Jefromi Ah, I bet that's the reduce and add sugar and port thing I found as text on the site... I didn't watch the video...

Jefromi

6:35 PM

@derobert Yeah, sorry, that's what's in the video I think. I couldn't remember if I'd seen a text version before.

derobert

Well, the video is good, because @Mien can see it... unlike the text version.

Jefromi

I haven't actually tried it - I don't generally keep port either - but definitely just reducing and adding a bit of sugar is an improvement sometimes.

Mien

Why port exactly?

I have regular wine :P

Perhaps the fruity flavour.

Jefromi

I assume it's because it's also generally sweet with pretty substantial flavors.

derobert

@Mien Probably because they had port on hand :-P

Mien

6:40 PM

I'll ask some port from my parents :P

SAJ14SAJ

@Mien Are you not old enough to get port yourself? i thought in wine-happy Europe you were expected to start buying it at 5 years old :-) :-)

Mien

I don't have it at home and we're both not very fond of it.

It's stupid to buy a whole bottle for a tablespoon.

For that price, I can buy real Balsamic vinegar ;)

derobert

LOL, you could probably use any other sweet red wine

Jefromi

And extra alcohol, cause it's fortified!

(That part may not be important.)

derobert

just dump in a bottle of vodka! Everyone loves more booze.

SAJ14SAJ

6:44 PM

What are you making that would use a single table spoon of wine? I would just use water. Or nothing. Or vodka. Or orange juice. In many applications, any of those would work just as well.

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ CI's balsamic vinegar recipe

Anyway, lunch time!

SAJ14SAJ

7:01 PM

@Jefromi You beat me to the horsey one too. you are like Supermod.

SAJ14SAJ

8:05 PM

@Jefromi I found one to flag for you... you will be bored no more :-)

derobert

8:37 PM

@SAJ14SAJ what type of crock pots are you using where low is below 131°F?

SAJ14SAJ

@derobert They said they put it on WARM

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ "Short answer: low is not guaranteed to be a temperature where pathogens will not grow"

SAJ14SAJ

I should have typed warm.

But I can delete my answer and let you have a go

derobert

Nah, you should just edit it to correct it

SAJ14SAJ

I will after my lunch/dinner.

derobert

8:40 PM

But then again, I'm pretty sure "keep warm" will hold it at a temperature well over the 130°F where pathogens grow.

SAJ14SAJ

Maybe, but as those things have no logic nor thermometer usually, hard to say for SURE.

derobert

No, they have a constant (well, maybe its PWM, but constant over timescales we're concerned about) heat input + a known amount of energy loss + significant safety marging from manufacturer afraid of lawsuits

So, if you were to try to run one in the freezer, it'd probably fail to keep it warm enough. And it'd boil like crazy if you ran one in the sauna.

I'll have to test mine to see what they're like on keep warm (I've only ever used them on high & low, really)

SAJ14SAJ

Are you sure on a scale of warm, low, high, warm is in the safe zone?

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ I'm sure it is on mine—the manuals only "recommend" that you keep it for 4 hours max there (I think at least one says for quality reasons). They'd use much stronger language if they were holding in the danger zone.

The three hours off worries me, though. I suspect it cooled a lot during that time.

SAJ14SAJ

Well... anyone who needs to come to this site to ask that question... I am not going to quibble. I stand by "throw the crap out". :-) Too many unknowns, plus the three hour interlude.

derobert

8:45 PM

I guess maybe I'll test mine tonight, and then I can post data on keep warm. The problem is the surface of the meat probably drops below 130 reasonably quickly once its turned off..

SAJ14SAJ

And when it does, it is immediately at ideal growth temperatures for an unknown period.

derobert

Yep. Though after 5 hours at 190 or so, its fairly sterile. And its a reasonably sealed environment... So I'd guess its safe. And its too oxygen-rich for the nasty spore-forming one. But I don't think I'd personally risk it for crock pot pulled pork.

SAJ14SAJ

@derobert I am persuaded by your logic, but I won't give advise like that on a public forum :-)

Truth is, if I left food out for three hours (not the stuff that happened *after), I would probably just stick it in the fridge and eat it later, but I am not in an at risk group.

derobert

Yeah, especially since didn't the rule used to be 4 hours, so that's probably mostly safe.

SAJ14SAJ

I think it still is four hours... but since I don't trust what "warm" means fully....

Its also four lhours over the entire lifetime of the ingredients. Who knows what they did BEFORE.

derobert

8:55 PM

Indeed. Or how long it took the meat to get to 140°F on low.

SAJ14SAJ

Yes... so my answer is the sum of unknown risks, being: why take silly chances.

On the other hand, I own four cats, so I am obviously silly and enjoy risky behavior.

derobert

LOL

SAJ14SAJ

How did you make a link to a specific part of chat?

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ drop down menu on the left of the message, 'permalink'

SAJ14SAJ

Ah, good to know.

Well, my sandwiches are eaten. I should go upstairs and pretend to work. I just don't want to.

derobert

8:57 PM

You can also do a bookmarking thing somehow, if you want to make a conversation fairly prominent.

SAJ14SAJ

Truthfully, this is one of the few substantive discussions we have over here--normally we are just having fun.

derobert

LOL, true! You could bookmark it under the "room" dropdown in the top-right corner

SAJ14SAJ

I will probably check in later, being the obsessive that I am, but off to work I go :-)

Have a great afternoon

derobert

Off to work, what odd hours you have. I'm about to leave work.

SAJ14SAJ

I got home from office... technically, I suppose I could quit for the day, but.... too much to do :-)

derobert

9:04 PM

Q How long can food be kept on the “keep warm” setting of a slow cooker?
A The keep warm setting can be used for up to 2 hours for some foods. Food safety is not affected, but quality of some types of food will continue to decrease the longer the food is “kept warm.” Foods like chili or spaghetti sauce will be fine.

... that's what Hamilton Beach says (brand of all my slow cookers)

Anyway, I think I'll head home now.

Q Are the heating elements only at the bottom of the cooker or do they wrap around and up the sides?
A There are two heaters that wrap around the sides (typically, one is used for Keep Warm, one is used for Low & both are used on High).

Interesting, didn't realize it had two elements. Guess that means no PWM.

Jefromi

10:01 PM

Hum, no bounties on meta questions?

SAJ14SAJ

11:30 PM

@derobert Your Hamilton Beach slow cooker sounds like a fairly high quality model. Not sure one can generalize from its manual to the general case.

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