The Frying Pan

Once when I was in Texas we had our end of clinic party catered by some bbq dude who ran a little shack. He had many items, but the barbequed venison--I think it was probably brisket--was the star of the show.

Sobachatina

2:57 PM

@mien- meatloaf would be a fine experiment but just know that it isn't exactly fancy cuisine.

SAJ14SAJ

Making a good meatloaf is not easy.

Cerberus

@SAJ14SAJ Yes, in the tiny area where the arctic circle and the rainy circle overlap.

Sobachatina

@SAJ14SAJ Yeah- brisket is the way to go here. I didn't understand BBQ before I moved here.

Up north they think BBQ is anything cooked on a grill. Those sad people.

Mien

@SAJ14SAJ I do like meatballs :)

SAJ14SAJ

@Sobachatina I was once teaching at an airforce base in Georgia. At the end, this old master sgt comes up to me and says, if I give them five dollars, I can come to their barbeque party. I was flattered to be invited so I gave them the 5. I thought bbq was horrible because I was used to dining hall stuff, left over roast beef reheated in jarred sauce.

Mien

3:00 PM

@Sobachatina I don't know what a brisket is, nor how to smoke it :P

Sobachatina

Warner Robbins?

SAJ14SAJ

The MSGT was outside my classroom smoking before I started, and we started early. That was the first time I had real barbecue. It was a revelation.

Brisket is the same cut traditionally used to make US style corned beef.

It is an exceptionally good cut for low and slow smoking.

Sobachatina

@Mien Large tough muscle across the chest of four legged animals. You cook it all day at low heat and it become very tender, smoky, and with tons of flavor.

SAJ14SAJ

Brisket

Brisket is a cut of meat from the breast or lower chest of beef or veal. The beef brisket is one of the nine beef prime cuts. The brisket muscles include the superficial and deep pectorals. As cattle do not have collar bones, these muscles support about 60% of the body weight of standing/moving cattle. This requires a significant amount of connective tissue, so the resulting meat must be cooked correctly to tenderize the connective tissue. According to the Random House Dictionary of the English Language, Second Edition, the term derives from the Middle English brusket which comes from t...

Mien

It's a bit too late for that now :) But maybe some other time.

SAJ14SAJ

3:01 PM

don't tell anyone, but we are talking about food. Again. Twice in two days.

Sobachatina

@Mien I was kind of kidding- you would also have to build a smoker.

Mien

What is "bad barbecue"?

Cerberus

Now I'm hungry!

Sobachatina

Dry, flavorless, congealed.

SAJ14SAJ

All non-good barbecue?

Mien

3:02 PM

@Sobachatina Won't you build me one? Preferably a rain-powered one.

tombull89

2 mins ago, by Mien

@SAJ14SAJ I do like meatballs :)

SAJ14SAJ

The thing is the word can mean.... well... the low and slow cooking technique, or the sauce, or just the event of eating outside with food cooked on a grill.

tombull89

chat message 8,888,888

Mien

That's true, @tombull89

SAJ14SAJ

So bad barbeque covers a myriad of things.

Sobachatina

3:02 PM

@Mien Rain to fill a tank to feed a waterfall to drive a generator to power a heating element to burn some wood? Sounds like a great idea!

Mien

@Sobachatina Do it! :D

SAJ14SAJ

The worst is the insitutional food variety. Take last night's left over roast beef (which was not very good to start with) and reheat it with jarred barbeque sauce. it is a catastrophe of badness.

Cerberus

Odd.

Sobachatina

@SAJ14SAJ Ugh. I totally agree.

Mien

We wouldn't call that barbecue.

Cerberus

3:03 PM

I don't think we have that.

SAJ14SAJ

@Cerberus But you have a near-infinite variety of white foods, so it balances.

Cerberus

If only BBQs didn't blow smoke and heat in your face all the time...

SAJ14SAJ

@Mien That is because you speak dutch.

Cerberus

@SAJ14SAJ White foods?

SAJ14SAJ

@Cerberus And chocolate didn't make us fat.

Sobachatina

3:04 PM

@Cerberus I understand it's tempting but you don't have to keep your face next to the chimney the whole time.

Cerberus

BBQs make us fat too.

@Sobachatina The smoke and the heat always seem to be blown in my direction.

SAJ14SAJ

@Sobachatina he has three, but no known brain, so... like moths to the flame....

derobert

@Sobachatina How else are you going to smoke your hair?

Cerberus

The cancer...

Mien

Anyway, I'm gonna start on that meatloaf. Wish me luck!

Sobachatina

3:05 PM

@derobert Put out a coop fire?

Cerberus

Wood smoke is 30 times as carcinogenic as tobacco smoke, I believe.

SAJ14SAJ

@Mien REmember, add twice as much flavor as you think you need. Then double it.

Mien

:D

Cerberus

Good luck!

derobert

@Sobachatina That just wouldn't have that nice hickory flavor!

Cerberus

3:05 PM

@SAJ14SAJ Agreed.

Mien

I'm gonna use my love ;)

Sobachatina

@Cerberus That seems believable- the key is to not inhale your brisket.

Cerberus

Then love it twice.

Sobachatina

@Cerberus Are you implying she has underpowered love?

SAJ14SAJ

starting to get uneasy here....

Sobachatina

3:06 PM

I bet @mien only has to love it 2/3 as much as most people- otherwise she'll overwhelm it.

derobert

Come to think of it, I've never made meat loaf. Never considered trying, after suffering through my Mom's when I was growing up...

Cerberus

@Sobachatina Well I...

Mien

@Sobachatina Awww <3

Sobachatina

@derobert That's probably the problem with your mom's meatloaf- too much love. It dries things out.

SAJ14SAJ

@derobert i made one a couple of weeks ago. I was too lazy to make meatballs. They just aren't as good as MB, somehow. Less surface area for brown crispy bits.

@Sobachatina EEEW.

Sobachatina

3:08 PM

@SAJ14SAJ ummm. I don't know where your mind is going but you should probably stop it.

I'm concerned for your wellbeing.

derobert

@Sobachatina he's here, and yet you're concerned for his well being over that?

2

Sobachatina

I made an impromptu dinner last night that I'm proud of.

I got home at about 6 and my wife was frazzled and hadn't made dinner.

SAJ14SAJ

waiting, waiting

derobert

@Sobachatina Yes, we should continue talking about food. I'm curious what'll happen if this channel is on-topic for long enough.

SAJ14SAJ

@derobert Singularity. The laws of physics and causality become undefined.

@Sobachatina AND????

Sobachatina

3:12 PM

A toasted corn tortilla, then spinach, a couple seared asparagus spears, a section of grilled tilapia, lemon zest and cilantro on top, with a lemon aioli drizzled on the side.

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ That'd be the worst- (best?) case scenario. Could just cause SE to crash.

Sobachatina

Even the kids liked it and I got it done surprisingly quickly out of stuff we just had on hand.

SAJ14SAJ

@Sobachatina Sounds unreasonably healthy.

Sobachatina

I don't often get to make dishes with any kind of nice presentation and these looked fantastic.

There was also minced red onion and grated carrot around.

Cerberus

@Sobachatina Great!

SAJ14SAJ

3:13 PM

I cannot approve of the use of cilantro, which should be banned.

Sobachatina

Very colorful and each ingredient was distinct visually and in flavor.

SAJ14SAJ

@Sobachatina photos :-)

Cerberus

You just happened to have all that on hand?

Sobachatina

@SAJ14SAJ I understand but for some reason that didn't factor into my decisions at the time. :)

Cerberus

@SAJ14SAJ hands you your inhalator

Sobachatina

3:14 PM

@Cerberus The asparagus was the only unusual ingredient.

Cerberus

You have cilantro and tilapia lying around?

Sobachatina

The fish we always have frozen and everything else are pretty much staples for us, tortillas, garlic, onion, carrots, cilantro, etc.

Cerberus

It can happen...

And all those vegetables.

SAJ14SAJ

@Cerberus How would that help with cilantro even if I used one?

Sobachatina

I buy cilantro whenever we buy groceries because it spoils fast but is dirt cheap.

SAJ14SAJ

3:15 PM

Tilapia is farmed I think... so....

@Sobachatina Its a darn weed that should be made extinct.

if you like it, why not grow it for free?

It grows, after all, like a weed.

derobert

It so cheap to buy it, or else I'd grow it...

Instead, I grow basil. That's more expensive to buy.

Sobachatina

@SAJ14SAJ I save my herb growing space for herbs that are more expensive- like basil, oregano, mint, rosemary, and dill.

derobert

Which reminds me, its time to purchase my basil plants for this year.

SAJ14SAJ

Mint is a weed too... its like tribbles, only a plant.

Sobachatina

@SAJ14SAJ It does grow well. Do you also not like mint?

We had neighbors who had a chocolate mint plant. It was amazing. It actually tasted like andes mints- just not so sweet.

I would love to grow that but haven't put in the minimal effort to find seeds.

Cerberus

3:18 PM

@SAJ14SAJ Uh, what?

@Sobachatina Dirt cheap? Aww I wish it were cheap here. Only at the market is it really cheap. It's 5+ times as expensive in supermarkets.

@derobert Really? Both are equally expensive here.

A very small bunch of cilantro/basil is € 1,30 at the supermarket.

SAJ14SAJ

I like mint

Cerberus

Same story.

I try to buy all three whenever I go to the market.

derobert

@Cerberus Yeah, for some reason, cilantro is <$1/bunch and basil is $2–$3 for a few short stalks

Cerberus

Odd.

Thyme and rosemary are cheaper in supermarkets, but equally cheap at the market.

Parsley is as expensive/cheap as basil etc.

Sobachatina

cilantro is $0.20 a bunch here. It's used extensively in Mexican food. Cilantro and parsley are the only two herbs I can get that inexpensively though.

I should say $0.20 - $0.50. It fluctuates.

derobert

3:26 PM

@Sobachatina I can get a few other ones cheap, at the international foods store nearby. Italian basil isn't one of 'em... Thai basil, OTOH.

Sobachatina

@derobert I can get mint cheaply at the asian grocery store but it is a bit too far to go regularly.

derobert

There is one almost across the street from me, so I'm lucky there.

Gotta go see how someone broke their Windows box. BBL.

Cerberus

Bai.

That is cheap.

SAJ14SAJ

Yeah, herb pricing is very wierd.

Sobachatina

Rosemary grows fantastically well here- it is actually used in landscaping arrangements everywhere.

I had a rosemary shrub at my old house that I never watered and it still thrived. I would prune it back in half every year and take a garbage bag of rosemary to work if anyone wanted some.

SAJ14SAJ

3:31 PM

Rosemary is a strange herb. It has a good flavor, but a horrible texture.

@Sobachatina Rosemary is the zuccinni of herbs?

Sobachatina

The texture is more tender in the spring but I agree- usually I don't leave it in the food. I'll use whole sprigs and remove them after cooking.

I especially like using rosemary sprigs as skewers for grilling.

SAJ14SAJ

@derobert Well... those basils are not exactly interchangeable :-)

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ No, they're not. Hence why I grow Italian basil

Bloody machine was giving an error about a filename in the network profile being too long, but I can't find the file to delete off the server. Ugh. Will have to go back over to the machine and actually take a picture of the file name...

BRB

Cerberus

@SAJ14SAJ Agreed.

@derobert Oh, God. Good luck.

derobert

Ok. Windows says it can't copy that file on the server, because the name is too long. Except the file isn't on the server. WTF

Cerberus

3:40 PM

Yikes.

derobert

Guess I'll check if its on the machine, and delete it there...

Mien

Yeez, I think I will fail dinner tonight.

American meatloaf is weird :P

derobert

Turned out to be a file on the local machine. Which Windows was for some reason trying to copy from the server.

Google informs me this is because Windows has multiple file-access APIs, and they have different file name length limits. And roaming profiles still uses the old, shorter-names API.

Cerberus

4:06 PM

Odd.

At least you were able to fix it.

Mien

I forgot about veggies :s

Cerberus

Tsk.

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ Hah, I have put my own longer answer on cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/33329/…

You shall not get a bajillion reps from one sentence today!

Cerberus

"Alongside".

Vague.

Jefromi

You kids are slacking off on the flagging; I just deleted something which both did not answer the question and was entirely plagiarized.

(To be fair it was only half an hour old.)

Sobachatina

4:28 PM

Google fiber is now officially coming to Austin.

SAJ14SAJ

@derobert You are nicer than I am.... I didn't consider that question worthy of any more of an answer. It was obvious they had no common sense, real world experience, or googling.

Sobachatina

Unfortunately, I'm quite sure I'll be outside their range.

Cerberus

They had no Googling??

SAJ14SAJ

@Jefromi You are faster than I can flag, at least on days that I actually work for a living :-)

Cerberus

@Sobachatina Aww...but it will be expensive anyway, right?

How much is Google Fibre?

derobert

4:29 PM

@SAJ14SAJ Yes, but I've got twenty whole reps from it so far, and with you jumping on every question, one has to take what he can get!

Jefromi

@Sobachatina Whaaaaaaat (1) how did you know this before me and (2) augh I do not live there anymore

Cerberus

Fairly cheap Internet is € 15–20 here.

Sobachatina

In Kansas City it is $70 a month for Gb speeds.

SAJ14SAJ

@derobert We can coordinate here in chat who gets what rep. My only ambition is to catch up to Jeffromi :-)

Cerberus

Yeah that's expensive.

SAJ14SAJ

4:30 PM

I have FIOS. Expensive but fast. Not google fast, but, I have no compliants right now.

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ LOL, we need to cartel-ize teh reps.

Cerberus

Hey, I have a serious question: what are such high speeds good for? What would you use them for?

Sobachatina

It is expensive but it is also really fast.

SAJ14SAJ

@derobert Yes, each person gets a quota of questions :-)

Sobachatina

I only have access to rural wireless at home which is slow and expensive.

SAJ14SAJ

4:30 PM

@derobert You can have every one that starts "Is it safe"?

Cerberus

Anything over, say, 10 Mbps seems pretty redundant (provided that the 10 Mbps is 100 % reliable)?

derobert

@Cerberus I can download stuff at 8MB/sec

@SAJ14SAJ Gee, that's so nice of you!

Cerberus

From which website? Nearly all websites only support much lower download speeds.

derobert

@Cerberus 10mbps is barely enough for full-quality Netflix streaming

Cerberus

For downloading films, there is no need for a fast speed: at 8 Mbps, you can just watch it as it is downloading.

@derobert Well, make it 20, then.

Jefromi

4:32 PM

The big selling point of Google Fiber, I think, is that no matter what you do, it will be enough - including for example several people streaming HD simultaneously (possibly in the form of digital TV), and it will continue to be fast enough for everything for a while to come.

Cerberus

The only speed over 1 MByte/s I ever get is with torrents.

And I have about 13 Mbps (20 officially).

derobert

@Cerberus I get that from quite a few. When I do apt-get upgrade, when I download ISOs, when I download torrents, when I send data to/from AWS, etc.

Cerberus

@Jefromi Hmm OK, so for shared connections with lots of people.

derobert

I even get it from mega.co.nz

Cerberus

@derobert Why don't I ever get such speeds from anywhere?

Really?

Sobachatina

4:33 PM

As far as Google is concerned- they would like more of what we do to be online through them. Haven't what is now basically unlimited bandwidth will change how people use the internet.

At least that is their stated motivation.

Jefromi

@Cerberus Or even just two, sometimes. Or one person who wants to do something else significant while they're streaming.

SAJ14SAJ

@Jefromi Can have every question typed with no upper case letters, and/or random interpretation of punctuation.

Cerberus

When last I downloaded a Ubuntu ISO, it certainly didn't max out my down speed. Or even close.

derobert

@Cerberus Donno. Seems like NL would be reasonably well connected.

Mien

@Jefromi Hey, I flag!

Cerberus

4:34 PM

@Sobachatina So what is your normal download speed now?

Mien

@Cerberus here it is more or less the same

Jefromi

But yeah, Sobachatina's second point is the motivation from Google's point (besides the fact that we all like fast internet too and it's just cool) - if we can just do away with the whole issue of people not having fast enough internet, everything will Just Work and we can get on to making and using cool stuff.

derobert

@Cerberus Depends on the mirror you use. Of course, no reason not to use torrents for Ubuntu ISOs

SAJ14SAJ

I find with FIOS that almost no single source can saturate my bandwidth. I remote control my work, while downloading files AND playing netflix or hulu or amazon video.

Cerberus

@Jefromi I don't know...I share my connection with various strangers who are my neighbours, and I never noticed any difference.

When Youtube bogs down, it is the site itself, not my connection.

SAJ14SAJ

4:35 PM

I have never done a torrent. I wouldn't know how to find one that is legal, ethical, and not likely to get me 3404 new viruses.

Sobachatina

@Cerberus I think cable is 5-10Mb. I'm not quite sure as I can't get those services.

derobert

I also like that I have a reasonably fast upstream—35 mbps—I can do stuff like stream files from my computer to my parent's place.

Or to work. Or wherever.

Cerberus

@derobert We host about 35 % of the world's child porn, so yes!

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ ubuntu.com/download/desktop/alternative-downloads :-P

SAJ14SAJ

Cable is a shared bandwidth system, without TDM. CAble is among the worst possible physical layers for internet access. The only reason it dominates is the cost of laying cable.

Cerberus

4:37 PM

@derobert Yeah, so I mean, in practice, I never ever get mirrors that max me out.

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ What do you mean, without TDM? I'm pretty sure cable has both TDM and FDM.

Jefromi

Well, obviously depends on your ISP right now. FIOS is definitely fast (but not widely available), and some others are good enough, but a lot of the ones that are in the $50-70 price range are 1/20 the speed of Google Fiber. Providing something way better at a similar price is a pretty big deal; for the majority who don't have something like FIOS it's a huge improvement, and even for the ones who have FIOS now, it'll be useful in the future, by the time it's widespread.

Cerberus

@SAJ14SAJ How about a Ubuntu ISO torrent?

@Sobachatina So what do you get at home?

SAJ14SAJ

@Cerberus Never had a need...

Sobachatina

My wireless is 1.5Mb down.

Cerberus

4:38 PM

@derobert Ugh, now faster upload speeds is what I really want! I have 1 Mbps. Yes, 1.

derobert

@Cerberus That's what I linked him to. Of course, a Debian one would be better :-P

Sobachatina

Just barely better than dialup.

derobert

@Cerberus That sucks. Not even enough for good video conferencing.

Cerberus

@Sobachatina Okay, that is slow, I would notice that too, hehe.

SAJ14SAJ

@derobert I spoke imprecisely. It does not have deterministic allocaton of bandwidth last time I reviewed how it works. Your neighbors can slow you down.

derobert

4:39 PM

I'm annoyed that Google+ hangouts insist on using some trivial amount of bandwidth. No bloody reason not to use H.264 -crf 20.

Cerberus

@derobert In practice, I get more like 0.8 Mbps, even.

I am considering switching to a provider that has 3 Mbps, yay!

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ yes, depending on how oversubscribed the network is. But that's how the entire Internet works.

Cerberus

Any higher simply doesn't exist.

What bandwidth would you say is required for an acceptable Skype video session?

I can use Skype, but the video will be terrible quality.

SAJ14SAJ

@derobert That is true, but not always in the last mile where bandwidth is often the most constrained.

derobert

@Cerberus I think HD requires somewhere around 2mbps, for 2-party.

Cerberus

4:40 PM

That little? By HD you mean 1080p?

Surely that would be more?

Jefromi

With respect to the mentions of YouTube being the limiting factor... that's super complicated, apparently - I've heard all kinds of stories of particular ISPs in just particular regions being slow, suggesting that the problem is the bandwidth between the ISP and YouTube, not YouTube itself.

derobert

@Cerberus yeah, H.264 is pretty efficient. At least bandwidth-wise, takes a #@!*# of CPU power.

SAJ14SAJ

YouTube uses CDN so it is very complicated.

Cerberus

@Jefromi Yeah, very well possible. It also depends a lot on your CDN server.

I heard some people occasionally got connected to some Asian CDN server.

@derobert Hmm interesting.

Why aren't all video files also H.264, then?

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ Depends on how the cable network is run. If its done right, it isn't congested. If its done on the cheap, it doesn't work from 1700–0000.

Cerberus

4:43 PM

Haha wat.

Don't forget the entire weekend.

SAJ14SAJ

@derobert I don't belive a cable network that is "run right" exists. There is a reason they are among the most disreputable companies in the nation.

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ Cox apparently is. Comcast business (not residential) appears to be, from my limited experience.

Jefromi

@Cerberus When I said "YouTube" I meant "the Google/YouTube CDN", essentially.

SAJ14SAJ

@derobert disbelief

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ ispspeedindex.netflix.com/usa ... notice where Cox comes in

Jefromi

4:46 PM

Even search benefits quite a bit from all that; less latency on your queries because the round trip time to a data center isn't super long, though I think it may be getting longer as more people in rural areas get online.

derobert

My parents have them, and it does seem to work.

SAJ14SAJ

Speed is only one element, but I will continue to blindly hate cable.

Cerberus

@Jefromi Yeah OK.

derobert

We have Comcast Business here at work, and until I recently upgrade my FiOS connection at home, it was actually faster. Latency is reasonable, too.

Has been pretty reliable as well (and we have monitoring, so that's not just a guess)

Jefromi

I wonder what I have at work!

derobert

4:50 PM

Easy enough to find out by checking what your IP address is, or doing a traceroute

Jefromi

I'm just going to pretend it's Google Fiber.

Some consolation for not living in Austin anymore.

SAJ14SAJ

Yeah, part of our WAN here at my organization is Comcast. I hate them :-) Just on principal.

Jefromi

At an old apartment I tried to get Comcast (it was cheap), had lots of problems, eventually canceled, got FIOS (it was not cheap) AND the installation took two tries because the first time the technician was attacked by bees.

So let that be a lesson to all of you.

Cerberus

Internet, attacked by bees. Check. Thank you for this valuable and highly relevant life lesson.

derobert

@Jefromi Thankfully, with our overuse of pesticides, we're apparently taking care of the "bees prevent FiOS" problem!

SAJ14SAJ

4:57 PM

@derobert Too depressing, SA chat rules violation!

derobert

@SAJ14SAJ Dare you to flag it!

SAJ14SAJ

Can you flag chat? Jefromi already said he was bored :-)

derobert

Yes, you can flag chat. Hover over the message. Its to the left of the star.

It'll show to all 10k+ users on the chat network, I believe.

Jefromi

Yeah, and then I'll handle your flags.

Hulk smash.

Mien

Meatloaf is resting :)

Jefromi

5:05 PM

Shhhhh.

derobert

@Mien Well, he is getting a tad bit old for going on tour, isn't he?

Mien

:P

I hope it's gonna be good :s

We'll know in three minutes.

Cerberus

@derobert You have killer bees, don't deny it!

Mien

5:40 PM

Who said meatloaf is bad?

It was very good!

SAJ14SAJ

@Mien How did you make it?

Is it just me or has there not been even single new question so far this "day"... since 00:00 UTC....

Mien

Soaked a hamburger bun (since I had no toast bread) in red wine (since I had no milk). Sweated half an onion with minced garlic. Put the bread, wine, onion, garlic in a bowl, mix.

SAJ14SAJ

Presweating was a good idea :-)

Mien

Added two eggs (I only was going to use 1 but I forgot :P), salt, pepper, parsley, chili powder..

And then a pound of meat (beef/pork).

Because it was too wet from the extra egg, I also added some bread crumbs.

That's it for the meat I think.

The sauce/glaze on top was ketchup, granulated garlic, paprika and a little bit of mustard.

@SAJ14SAJ Yeah, indeed.

@SAJ14SAJ I thought so too :)

Oh, I also added quite some Worcestershire sauce

to the meat

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