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6:00 PM
@Simply $\frac{\sqrt{2x+1}-3}{\sqrt x -2}$ ,$x\to4$
@NaCl no problem^
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt $\lim_{x\to 4}\frac{\sqrt{1+2x}-3}{\sqrt{x}-2}$, no l'hospital
 
l'hospital makes life much easier
great identity
 
What about the $ +- $ ?
Does it turn into absolute value ?
 
what happens when you square $\pm$?
 
6:01 PM
It turns into module
 
Let $x=(u+2)^2$
We get
$$\frac{\sqrt{9+8u+2u^2}-3}u$$
Binomial expand:
 
In a homework assignment I had to come up with an example of a function: $f: \mathbb{Q} \longrightarrow \mathbb{Q} \ \ $such that $ \forall x,y \in \mathbb{Q}$ our function is contracted with factor $\frac12$ and has no fixed points. i.e. $$ \left | {f(x)-f(y)} \right |\leq \frac12 \left | x-y \right | ,\\ \nexists \ \ x^* \ s.t. \ f(x^*)=x^* \ $$

I came up with $$ f(x) := \left\{\begin{array}{lr}
\frac12 (x-1) + \frac32, & \text{for } x < 1\\
\frac12- x^{-2}, & \text{for } 1\leq x\leq 2\\
 
@s.harp @LawrenceLelo I have to solve $\int cos^4(x) $
 
$$=4+\mathcal O(u)\to 4$$
Is that the correct value for the limit?
 
Can I solve it using the simple $ cos^2(x) + sen^2(x) = 1 $ ?? Because I'm not able to
Am I forced to use the half angle formula ?
 
6:04 PM
@Maks you can solve it many ways
For example
 
Can you elaborate ?
 
$$\cos(x)=\frac{e^{ix}+e^{-ix}}2$$
 
@Simply it should converge to $\frac{6}{4}2=3$
 
Oh, well, I did it in my head
 
ehhh I mean $\frac46 2$
 
6:06 PM
Oh, that's right
I have to divide by 3 I think
 
I guess the best way is to use the half angle formula
 
@Maks you could also use the Chebyshev polynomial of the first kind
 
Hi chat
 
You could also use integration by parts
 
@NaCl Hi ! Have you had an answer for your CamL question ?
 
6:08 PM
Am I suppose to learn all the identities ?
There are tons of them
 
@Astyx I don't remember the question anymore
 
@Maks nah
 
@Maks they all follow from euler formula
 
Your probably supposed to just know half angle identity
 
@NaCl You were supposed to implement a recursive function without recursion
 
6:12 PM
@Maks I think the way I'd do that identity is to take 1- both sides
On the left, I get $1-\cos^2(x)=\sin^2(x)$.
 
@Astyx Oh, I remember. But that wasn't the exact task, I was allowed to use a function which is recursive and I could give that function my lambda expression as parameter
 
Yeah something like that
 
I didn't receive a great answer, so no, I don't know the exact solution
 
Too bad :/
 
On the right, I get $\frac12(1-\cos 2x)$
And that's just the half-angle identity for $\sin^2 x$.
So it's just a half-angle identity in disguise.
 
6:15 PM
Lol @Semiclassical
 
...I missed the discussion, didn't I.
 
Oh well.
 
@Astyx I'm sorry. But the basic idea behind the whole thing was, that the function gets exceptionally big even for small arguments
 
6:16 PM
At least you tried @Semi
 
We defined two functions A B semantically equivalent iff both produce the exact same output for the same input for all inputs
 
@NaCl Don't be ! It's my own fault if I can't find a solution :p (And to be honest I haven't searched long enough to complain anyway)
 
@Semiclassical I tried
 
I gotta leave right now, bye !
 
As the recursive thing got so big that the interpreter threw an Overflow-Exception, you just had to implement that as well
Oh ok
byebye
 
6:17 PM
Alternative approach: $\dfrac{d}{dx}\cos^2 x = -2\sin x \cos x=-\sin 2x$ and $\dfrac{d}{dx}\dfrac{1}{2}(1+\cos 2 x)=-\frac12 (2\sin 2x)=-\sin 2x$. So the first-derivatives of both of them agree everywhere.
 
@Semiclassical oh..
 
Which means that the two sides can differ by at most a constant. Taking $x=0$, we see that they agree at zero and therefore agree everywhere.
(That's a very silly way to do it, but it works.)
 
I reviewed 20 close votes today and only voted "close" twice, many of the questions were crap, but still people are way to anxious with their close votes :/
 
6:53 PM
Hey guys! I'm doing a constraint question for a naive bayes proof, and I'm having trouble understanding how to take the lagrangian of a function with another function as the integral constraint.
 
If it's anything like Lagrangians in classical mechanics, you'll want to introduce a Lagrangian multipler.
 
I know that all values of the gaussian continuous distribution must add up to 1, but I don't know exactly how to put that in terms of an integral from -inf to inf
Yeah - I do have a lagrangian multiplier, but the multiplier $\lambda$ is multiplying an integral from -inf to inf
 
One idea is to use the cdf of the gaussian distribution, but otherwise I'm stumped and I want to find alternative ways
(in case the cdf is not convenient to find in the future because my teacher likes to do stuff like that)
 
Normalization of a probability distribution is just that the probability of measuring anything is 1. So that's $\int_{-\infty}^\infty p(x)\,dx$ where $p(x)$ is the probability distribution function.
 
6:56 PM
Hey, how can I start solving $ \int sen\sqrt x $
 
For the CDF, the condition is that it go to 1 as $x\to \infty$ (since that's just $\int_{-\infty}^x p(x')\,dx'$.)
 
yeah :o so the lagrange would be $f + \lambda (\int_{-\infty}^{\infty}p(x)dx - 1)$
 
Right.
 
Right - but actually the cdf of the gaussian distribution cant even be expressed in well defined terms
 
Sure it can. It just can't be expressed in elementary terms.
The error function is a perfectly well-defined function.
 
6:57 PM
Right - my bad. I meant elementary terms
I mean - is there even a possibility that it's not even necessarily a constraint?
 
@Semiclassical ?
 
Dunno what to tell you there. @OneRaynyDay
 
And if that integral was indefinite, then I guess I could just take the derivative w.r.t to it but in this case it's not even indefinite...
 
Keep in mind that the substitution rule for integration is essentially just a version of the chain rule for differentiation. @maks
(that's a sloppy way to put it, but w/e)
 
oh hmm I see what you mean
 
7:00 PM
My attempt at a handlebody decomposition of the torus using the height function:
 
If you were differentiating $\sin \sqrt{x}$, you'd want to let $u=\sqrt{x}$ and do $\dfrac{dy}{dx}=\dfrac{dy}{du}\dfrac{du}{dx}$
The same logic helps with your integral: Use the substitution rule with $u=\sqrt{x}$.
That'll introduce some complications, but you'll get rid of the square root inside the sine.
I think the resulting integral can be done with integration by parts.
 
Ohh I get it
 
bah, where's ted when you need him :/
 
Lazy old man
 
lol
@Danu What are you working on lately?
 
7:04 PM
I just showed you!
 
...fair enough.
 
More seriously, Chern classes of some homogeneous spaces
 
@Semiclassical $ dx = du*u' $ ?
 
Not quite. That'd be $dx=\dfrac{du}{dx}du$, which doesn't match what you'd expect from the chain rule.
Plus, $u'$ is a function of $x$. But the right-hand side should be a function of $u$.
 
What I mean is, when I integrate lets say $ \int \dfrac {2x+3} {x^2+3x+4} dx $
 
7:10 PM
Anyone got an idea of how I can work out the area element of a stereographic projection? Supposedly for $\psi : \Bbb{R}^{n-1} \to S^{n-1} \subsetneq \Bbb{R}^{n}$ defined by $\psi(x_1, \dots, x_{n-1}) = (|x|^2+1)^{-1} \left( 2x_1, \dots, 2x_{n-1}, |x|^2 - 1 \right)$, it's supposed to follow that $$ \left\langle \dfrac{\partial \psi}{\partial x_i}, \dfrac{\partial \psi}{\partial x_j} \right\rangle = \delta_{ij} \dfrac{4}{(|x|^2+1)^2}$$
 
I take $ u = x^2 + 3x + 4 $ then $ du = 2x + 3 $
And the integral is $ \int \dfrac{2x+3}{x^2+3x+4} \dfrac {du}{2x+3} $
Right ?
 
Sure. But note what you've done: If $u=u(x)$, then $du=u'(x)\,dx$.
 
I dont get it..
 
...above, you wrote $dx=u' du$.
 
That what I am asking, am I suppose to multiply or divide the derivative ?
 
7:11 PM
That's not the same as $dx=u'du$.
 
You wrote the same thing
Mmm I think I get it
so $ \dfrac {du}{dx} $
I differentiate $x^2+3x+4$ respect X
and $ u = x^2+3x+4$
 
7:32 PM
The mathematica chat isn't very lively, and I'm hoping someone would know the answer here: how can I get an exact value in Mathematica? I just calculated an integral, which gave me numerical value, even while the answer is 7/6.
I hope I'm not rude for asking a Mathematica question, but I was trying to calculate something while doing maths:)
 
If you know the answer, why are you using Mathematica? :P
 
I wanted to check my answer, and apart from that, I had a Mathematica test today, so I want to test my skills :P
 
Since when does Mathematica give approximate values ?
 
Well, it's not really approximate actually
but it's not fractional eaither
either*
The solution is 7/6, and mathematica gives 1.16667
 
What was th ecode you computed ?
 
7:37 PM
f[x_, y_] := c*(x^2 + 0.5*x*y)
int = Integrate[f[x, y], {x, 0, 1}, {y, 0, 2}]
 
1.16667 is approximate enough to me :p
 
Hahahah, yea sure
But what if I wanted to know what fraction it was
 
Oh that's because you gave 0.5
 
Instead of reverting to something else
 
Type 1/2 instead
 
7:38 PM
Oh really?
Oh,,,,,, cool!
Thaankyou(:
 
Yeah, numbers with a comma are interpreted as approximate by Mathematica
 
Yeaa, makes sense!
 
Hi.
 
Hi @Mahmoud
 
How is life ? @Astyx
 
7:43 PM
Too short :)
 
@ShaVuklia You can also do N[number].
Or similarly number // N
 
That's the opposite of what she wants to do @Semi
 
@Semiclassical That does the exact opposite of what I wanted:P
 
...derp
 
@Astyx Trivial, that's what I expect when talking to Math people, very unusual conversations, I love it, however, I'm still going to say that I meant how is life going with you ?
 
7:46 PM
Eyyo Ted
 
oh hey it's ted
 
Remember this $\Bbb P(T^*S^6)$ stuff?
Turns out the error I made was a trivial one, not a math one
 
Where? Who?
 
in some sense it makes me happy, in some sense it makes me sad.
 
Hi @TedShifrin
 
7:46 PM
Oh, cool, @Danu, although I still haven't figured out that orientation blather.
Hi @Mahmoud
 
Do people also react that way in the street @Ted ?
 
@TedShifrin Yeah... It wasn't even relevant. I literally just wrote a sign wrong and never looked back at it.
 
They all cross to the other side, @Astyx.
 
@Mahmoud I can't complain really
 
I mean I looked... but I wasn't looking for the error there :P
 
7:47 PM
Surely they're shy @Ted
 
One of my coauthors and I, just before the days of Mathematica, wrote a paper (of which I'm very proud), and we each did a certain Chern class computation — reasonably involved — about 20 times before we could confirm we had it right.
 
Do we consider this true ? $$\lim_{x\to c}f(x)=\lim_{x-c\to 0} f(x)$$ ?
 
@Astyx: Or I'm very ugly.
 
@TedShifrin I'll try not to beat that record :)
In happier news, I learned a tiny bit about Morse theory
 
Yeah, I know, @Danu. And I'm good at computation.
 
7:48 PM
That's another possibility
 
and I drew this picture:
48 mins ago, by Danu
user image
 
Can I threat $x\to y$ as a (kind of an) equality ?
 
@Mahmoud: Finish your equation there.
$\lim\limits_{x-c\to 0}$ of what?
 
Yes, my bad.
 
@Danu: I can't say I give you points for novelty.
 
7:49 PM
@TedShifrin I'm just reproducing the lecturer's stuff... Not my choice! :P
The handlebody "patches" were a pain in the ass.
Also it's not completely trivial to align those blue circles
(0.01mm precision required)
 
Meh.
 
I'd avoid considering $x\to y$ as equality, for two reasons. 1) You'll run into indeterminate limits at some point, where they 'seem to' be ill-defined at $x=y$ and require some care there. 2) Not all functions are continuous, and therefore $\lim_{x\to y}f(x)$ need not coincide with $f(y)$.
 
Some day we should talk about my paper with averaged Morse theory and curvature.
@Semiclassic: I'm not sure if Mahmoud meant that.
 
@TedShifrin Some day.
 
7:51 PM
There was another talk about knot theory today
This time no Floer homology, though.
 
I've not been the best about context today :/
 
@Mahmoud: So what's the end of your sentence?
 
Kind of funny: It's apparently open if all embeddings $\Bbb C\to \Bbb C^3$ are all related by an automorphism of $\Bbb C^3$ where I mean automorphisms in the sense of ehh... affine algebraic varieties?
 
Does the equation hold for all limits of functions approaching some number $c$.
 
But it's proven that they are in every other dimension ($n\neq 3$) and the guy had a knot theory proof.
 
7:53 PM
Using words $;)$ @TedShifrin
 
No, @Mahmoud, you never finished the math in the math sentence.
Ha ha :P
 
Oh, I think I have a non-physics way of describing the stuff I'm working on now.
 
Algebraic embeddings, @Danu?
 
@TedShifrin Yeah, polynomials or something
 
I mean, $z\mapsto (z,e^z,e^{-z})$ is an embedding.
 
7:55 PM
$$\lim_{x\to c}f(x)=\lim_{x-c\to 0}f(x)=L$$ Maybe ?
 
Everything in this affine category or something
 
Hmm, so the twisted cubic can be ambiently turned into a twisted quintic?
No, you had it right. I was thinking of writing $u=x-c$ and then it's $\lim\limits_{u\to 0} f(c+u) = L$.
 
basically, algebraic curves defined as $F(x,y,z)=\det(Ax+By+Cz)=0$ with particular choices of $A,B,C$.
 
I'm sorry.
 
Feller was the guy talking, I guess about this paper, Ted
 
7:57 PM
Oh, @Danu, group embeddings.
 
In particular, I want two of them to be diagonal matrices and the third to be entirely non-diagonal.
 
So, Mahmoud, have you done all my exercises satisfactorily? If so, the chapter should go fine :P
 
Actually the talk was really about a knot theory approach to this
He didnt' talk much at all about this problem
 
(I think I can even say that A is the identity matrix for what I'm interested in).
 
Sounds interesting, @Danu.
Well, if one of the matrices is nonsingular, you can pull it out, @Semiclassic, so sure.
 
7:58 PM
Slice knots
 
Yeah.
 
I don't know no not theory, @Danu.
 
Topologically slice versus smoothly slice. Mystifying.
I would love to have a course on knot theory.
 
hmm, but something doesn't sound right about what I just said.
will have to come back to it later.
out for now
 
Bye.
 
8:01 PM
@TedShifrin I used it to solve this limit :
$$\lim_{x\to a^2} \frac{\sqrt{x}+x-a-a^2}{x\sqrt{x}+x\sqrt{a}-a^2\sqrt{x}-a^2\sqrt{a}}$$
For positive $a$
 
Yuck.
 
Eww
 
Where did that come from?
 
Substituting gives the indeterminate form $\frac 00$, btw, what's the difference between ''indeterminate'' and ''undefined'' ?
 
After you've done a few of the exercises, it's appropriate to prove and then use all the limit theorems. But make sure you don't use the product rule for limits when one of those limits don't exist. Students love to screw up $\lim\limits_{x\to 0} x\sin(1/x)$.
No difference.
 
8:05 PM
@TedShifrin What? Isn't indeterminate to do with the form (i.e. for example 0/0) whereas undefined specifically means that the limit does not exist
 
I think the language use is synonymous. I guess you are wanting to specify which sort of indeterminate form it is ($0/0$, $0\times\infty$, $\infty/\infty$), but conceptually these all come about because we have an undefined quantity if we plug in the limit. You might be right, though, since $1/x$ is undefined at $0$, but not a typical "indeterminate form."
 
I'm lost in the forest of fancy mathematical terms, happy to have my intuition light up for me what's left of affordable knowledge, made for average people, beginning from myself.
 
I have no idea what that poetry meant, @Mahmoud :P
 
There is no room for poetry in this virtual room, math is too strict and well-constructed, that the most inspiring words, simply turn into one line of Logical deduction.
 
Hush up, @Mahmoud :)
@Mahmoud: From my exam last time I taught this course. Give me the $\delta$-$\epsilon$ proof for $$\lim_{x\to 2}\frac{x^2+5x-2}{x+1}=4.$$ (You can email me your proof.)
 
8:13 PM
Thank you @TedShifrin, I'll do my best.
 
I have confidence.
Back later ...
 
8:26 PM
@TedShifrin only from one side?
@DanielFischer thanks
 
Wow, this abstract is pure gold vixra.org/abs/1701.0564
 
I like steel
 
And the paper itself is just as great, with section 4 entitled Godsciousness
 
Could someone of you take a look at my question math.stackexchange.com/questions/2110288/… ?
 
Hello!
Is it possible to represent graph as a group?
I know groups could be represented as graphs, but I am not sure if converse is true.
 
8:38 PM
@MaryStar How has this not even a comment?
 
@Socrates I don't know... :/
 
@MaryStar what do you do at the very moment?
 
I am thinking about that question.
 
@MathWanderer Sure, but what sort of properties should be observable on the graph? I mean, we can do this basically by some random bijection between suitable sets, but that would hardly be interesting
 
I have a random graph (networks) that is modeling the markov models
I am interested in taking each graph as one element of the group
 
8:43 PM
@MaryStar when was your last break, your last meal, your last bathroom visit?
 
What do we mean by upper bound ?
Different types of bounds ?
 
@MathWanderer So now you are not looking to have the graph correspond to a group but having some set of graphs correspond to a group
Do you have some operation on the graphs?
 
9:08 PM
@MaryStar do you work on the answer to my last question or did you surrendered?
 
9:21 PM
Yes I am still working on it :D
 
hi chat
 
@Semiclassical Hi person
 
@TedShifrin Hmm, just stumbled upon something rather interesting
This MO answer talks about a lot of different applications of the determinant
and in particular: "14. In algebraic geometry, most projective curves can be seen as the zero set of some determinantal equality det(xA+yB+zC)=0. The theory was developed by Helton & Vinnikov. For instance, a hyperbolic polynomial in three variables can be written as det(xI_n+yH+zK) with H,KH Hermitian matrices; this was conjectured by P. Lax."
 
9:38 PM
Hello, could someone help me with plotting z's on the complex plane that satisfy wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Re(z%5E4)-%7Cz%5E2%7CIm(z%5E2)%3C%3D0
 
It'd be better to actually say what you're trying to plot, rather than ask people to go through the link.
 
Re(z^4)-|z^2|Im(z^2)<=0
wolfram writes it nicer
 
if you use dollar signs, as double $ aournd your code, you will see it nicer
$Re(z^4)-|z^2|Im(z^2)<=0$
 
Probably the place to start is to write it using real variables. The Cartesian form isn't really helpful here, but the polar form looks relatively nice.
 
9:42 PM
hi @BalarkaSen
 
Hi @Balarka
 
'Sup
I caught a terrible cold and I'm coughing so much that I can't do anything
 
i tried doing it z=(a+ib)
and than solving the inequality with a and b but it was very unpleasant and i know there should be a simpler way
 
@BalarkaSen Ah, that sucks
 
Yeah, that's what I meant by 'Cartesian form'.
 
9:45 PM
z=|z|(cos(a)+isin(a) wasn't very useful either
 
But you can also write $z=re^{i\theta}$ for $\theta$ real and $r>0$.
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt Yeah.
 
Eh, I think it is. For instance, $z^4=r^4 e^{4i\theta}$. So the real part of that is just $r^4 \cos 4\theta$.
 
$r^4cos(4a)+r^4sin(2a)<=0$
 
Yeah. And $r>0$, so you can divide out $r^4$.
 
9:47 PM
@BalarkaSen meditate
 
That leaves $\cos 4a+\sin 2a\leq 0$.
 
i tried using double angle formulas but it didn't help much
 
@Socrates Might help with the cough, but won't kill the chest infection
 
Well, it already tells you one very important thing: The inequality doesn't depend on $r=|z|$.
 
hmmm
 
9:49 PM
That means that the inequality can only depend on the argument of a given point. So the boundaries of the region will be rays emanating from the origin.
 
@Danu I think I have heard something like that in C^2.
 
@BalarkaSen I have asthma, but as soon you realize it's an illusion, it doesn't matter anymore
 
Now, that still leaves the question of what those rays are. For there's more work.
Mainly it requires finding for what real $a$ one has $\cos 4a+\sin 2a=0$.
 
Hey, can anyone spot what I'm doing wrong here ?
$ \int \dfrac {dx} {x \sqrt{x-1}} $
I did this:
 
@user379685 For that, I think it's best to use the double-angle identity to write $\cos 4a$ in terms of $\sin 2a$. That'll give you a quadratic equation in $\sin 2a$.
 
9:52 PM
@Semiclassical thanks
 
By substitution $ u = \sqrt{x-1} , u^2 = x-1 , dx = du \sqrt{x-1} $
$ \int \dfrac {du * u} {(u^2 + 1) * u} $
$ \int \dfrac {1} {u^2 + 1} $
As $ \int \dfrac {1} {x^2 + 1} = tan^{-1}(x) $
Then this one should be $ tan^{-1}(x-1) $
But instead its $ 2 tan^{-1}(\sqrt{x-1}) $
Why ??
 
Did you forget to undo your substitution?
there's also a factor $2$ missing in your substitution
 
@SteamyRoot Where ??
 
if you differentiate a sqrt, you get a factor $1/2$
In the $dx = ...$ part
 
9:55 PM
$du=u'(x)dx$.
That's how the substitution rule works.
And $\frac{d}{dx}\sqrt{x-1}$ definitely gives a factor of 1/2.
 
So you get
$$2\int \frac{1}{u^2+1} du = 2\arctan(u) = 2\arctan(\sqrt{x-1})$$
 
@SteamyRoot Ohhh ! I was replacing $ u^2 $ like if $ \int \dfrac {1} {u^2 + 1} = arctan(u^2) $
My bad, thz !
 

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