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12:00 AM
When I spent 8 days in Italy, I sure wished I spoke Italian, though.
 
Lol @DHMO my calc prof's sorta mini description of Banach-Tarski was hilarious
 
I'm spoiled by French ...
 
@Daminark what did he say?
 
Hey everyone, just something somewhat interesting that I noticed. A basis for a topology generates one and only one topology, but a topology can have multiple bases, So let's say we have a set $X$, and a collection of bases for topologies $\mathcal{B_{\alpha}}$ and a collection of topologies on $X$, denoted by $\mathcal{T_{\beta}}$. There seems to be a surjective mapping $f : \{\mathcal{B_{\alpha}}\} \to \{\mathcal{T_{\beta}}\}$.
 
The set of topologies is a subset of the set of possible basis for topologies
 
12:04 AM
"So the isometries on R^3 form the free group which is crazy, like it's completely crazy, and then you sorta rotate your stuff in weird ways and then everything just becomes a mess."
 
Since the whole topology is a basis for itself
 
LOL @Daminark.
 
@AlessandroCodenotti, Is there anything further to learn from that surjective mapping apart from that?
 
All you do in Banach-Tarski is apply isometries - which are volume preserving. Hence the volume of one unit ball and two unit balls must be equal: $1 = 2$. :D
 
@TedShifrin Yeah I laughed when he said that, it was great. I think Marianna does the full proof when she teaches measure but until then I'll just roll with VSauce + "The free group is crazy" for the proof
@SteamyRoot
So we know that 1 = 1!, so if 1=2, then 1! = 2, but commuting the exclamation mark and the space, we get 1 != 2. Contradiction
 
12:12 AM
Hahaha, nice :D
That reminds me of the one time someone did a proof by contradiction and finished with "and hence we end up with a contradiction: $1 = 0$!". The prof teaching the course wrote down that he didn't see a contradiction at all.
4
 
2
Q: Classical Varieties

SwimBikeRunI want to learn more about classical varieties. How do I proceed? I was looking for more information on Classical Varieties and what exactly it means. I worked through the wikipedia article - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebraic_variety, but I do not understand what they are used for. I have ...

L O L
 
@Rüdiger What's funny is that there's at least one solidly 'financial' application of classical varieties---namely, elliptic curve cryptography
 
i don't think this is directly financial in the sense the op was thinking about
 
But that's a fairly narrow viewpoint as to what makes math valuable
 
i don't think i made some value judgement
did i?
 
12:19 AM
Good morning :)
 
I was referring to the implicit judgment made by the OP
 
ah :D
yeah he is a bit confused... " have little experience in geometry (Is this geometry?) "
from the comments: sellable product, other than educating others about the math. Ok I'll check that out and page through it. If you were to explain Algebraic Varieties and its implications to an executive manager in one or a couple paragraphs, what would that contain? Here is my version, but I made up the exec details as I don't know them -- Algebraic Varieties is the study of the emergent patterns from simple shapes and rules.
- Algebraic Varieties is the study of the emergent patterns from simple shapes and rules. If a faster converging solution can be found to the GTi projection, then this would mean tighter manufacturing
lmao that's actually quite hilarious.
 
Damn, I really need to be more strict about making thesis backups. Last one was from mid-september.
Anyway, off to sleep and then a holiday till Jan 2nd. See you all later.
(and another, final, shameless plug: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1801950/… )
 
so every function from Z to Z is continous?
 
12:36 AM
@DHMO Assuming the subspace topology on $\Bbb Z$, yes.
 
@Fargle so the intermediate value theorem fails there?
 
@DHMO Sure. Take the function that sends odds to $1$ and evens to $-1$. At no point does this function hit $0$.
 
but the statement of intermediate value theorem doesn't rule this out as an exception...
 
@DHMO The IVT in general assumes that the space is connected and that the topology on it is the order topology.
 
I see, thanks
 
12:39 AM
$\Bbb Z$ satisfies the second one, but not the first.
Functions from $\Bbb R$ to $\Bbb Z$ are a little more interesting for this: such a function is continuous iff the fiber $f^{-1}(\{m\})$ of any element of $\Bbb Z$ is an open set.
 
Darn, I can't sleep. This is annoying.
 
But from $\Bbb Z$ to $\Bbb R$ the question is still trivial.
I'm out. Trivia night with family. Hi and bye, @Balarka--hope you're able to get there soon.
 
Byes.
 
@SteamyRoot I hope a nonsense proof of an actual theorem qualifies as a "fake proof"
I first came across that theorem in the REU, when Laci was teaching us linear algebra
And he first proved it with the $f_A(A) = det(AI-A) = det(0) = 0$, we were cracking up
 
 
2 hours later…
2:23 AM
Oh, interesting, Zermelo exposited AoC in order to prove the well ordering principle?
 
Yup
 
So he probably didn't realize the reverse implication until after the fact
Cool
 
And the funny part is, I believe that most people who have a problem with the axiom of choice do so because it leads to well-ordering theorem
 
@BalarkaSen Thanks for this response, I only saw this now
 
That or Banach-Tarski
 
2:27 AM
@JackDon Sure, no problem.
 
I wonder how many people are there, I mean, are they really fringe? Is there a significant population of closet AoC-deniers?
 
Well, there's at least one
 
You? :o
 
Wildberger isn't even chill with R so I'm pretty sure he won't be chill with axiom of choice
 
Idk who that is
 
2:30 AM
Then again, that means he isn't chill with those sets that make AoC a fancy theorem
 
you don't want to, @GFaux
 
*axiom
Like no one denies AoC for finite sets
And yeah Wildberger is some weird finitist that's trying to reformulate math without R
 
2:47 AM
Why
 
because he's a hack
 
@GFauxPas how's your exponential orders?
 
I thought that sentiment died out with Eudoxus
I think I'm done with e.o. results and am ready to start doing laplace transforms
Also I should make those heart curves
 
@BalarkaSen he's a professor, I watched one of his lectures on gruop theory on youtube, he did manage to mention R isn't okay
C is much better than R anyway
 
@GFauxPas the sentiment of being a hack? certainly not
 
2:52 AM
No lol the belief that Q is enough
 
C can't be ordered in a useful way, which is a huge downside
 
But like algebraic closure
 
Also most or all defns of C use R or R2 or M2(R) or something with R
 
I mean you can't do C on its own, it sorta has the notion of R built into it
 
2:55 AM
@GFauxPas I didn't mean it seriously, I just said if because of the double entendre
 
Oh okay :)
 
Motion to replace R wth p-adics
 
for which p?
 
7
 
3:25 AM
@gfauxpas why the revert?
 
3:36 AM
Hi @MikeMiller
 
Howdy chat.
 
@Pissedofflayman Is something wrong?
You seem pissed
 
chuckles
 
just an inside joke
:-)
 
3:44 AM
Why are you liquid ocelot? That seems like the kind of avatar a different chat user might go for.
 
in memory of
 
RIP
 
4:02 AM
Hi @robjohn
 
4:25 AM
does good online resource of continued fractions exist?
 
@Rüdiger I hadn't even looked at it closely enough to see that, lol
I think cryptography is an example of a 'sellable product', so I'd count elliptic curve cryptography in that respect. But algebraic geometry is not a branch of operations research!
On an entirely different note: I'm rather satisfied with my Mathematica code in this (CW) answer: math.stackexchange.com/a/2074331/137524
If only because I like the kind of picture I get
 
5:00 AM
@DHMO read Hardy's introduction to number theory book
 
5:28 AM
hello everyone
 
5:58 AM
@MikeMiller Does his name rhyme with ocelot?
 
hi chat
 
hey
 
hi
 
Hi
 
6:14 AM
hi
 
Hi
 
hi
 
hi
 
6:29 AM
hi
1 hour ago, by Pissed off layman
hi
 
@BalarkaSen do you know much about invective hulls?
 
@DHMO Hi
@DHMO You asked me about transcendental numbers, didn't you?
 
yes
 
Semiclassical generates talk
Good work Semi
 
Semi good :P
 
6:34 AM
Do people recommend trying to do all of the exercises in Hatcher, or do most people just do a small subset?
Or a different question, should it take hours to do each exercise on average
 
6:48 AM
@JackDon I have done a major amount of them.
I think one should do a large subset, in contrast to a small one :)
Certainly the exercises aren't easy. I have taken days to get some done.
@AliCaglayan Nope.
 
@BalarkaSen do you know what is meant by $k_R$ here?
 
Nah
 
how do you notate a 0 matrix and make it distinctiable from a 0 vector?
(or the 0 scalar)
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't question required to not contain any false information whatsoever intentional or otherwise?
 
many people labor under illusions. we're not going to close or delete those people's questions in lieu of disillusionment.
 
6:57 AM
@TheGreatDuck If someone made a mistake then they made a mistake and need help.
 
but the TOS say that posts are not allowed to contain false information
period
 
how can one arrive at the truth if he never makes an error...
 
so isn't the post automatically off-topic?
 
what tos?
also, are you some kind of robot?
 
6:59 AM
@TheGreatDuck prove it. If we are at it.
 
"post any false, inaccurate or incomplete material"
 
that's to cover themselves in case of defamation. don't be silly.
 
i just find it kind of... disturbing
fair enough
 
contingencies are always written into EULAs.
 
I was wondering if that was maybe a mistake
 
7:00 AM
"(d) knowingly post any false, inaccurate or incomplete material"
 
cause when I read it I was like "but what about when people make mistakes?"
 
keyword knowingly
 
...
one should always know
 
but I guess that's being hard on people
 
7:01 AM
If we should always know, then what would the purpose of questions be?
 
@arctictern asking if something is true is not the same as claiming something is true.
 
most questions arise from false information anyway
 
@TheGreatDuck not relevant to me
 
and most questions have no context either
shrugs
or are not useful to future readers
 
yesterday, by Akiva Weinberger
There's a difference between "should be obvious" and "is obvious"
 
7:03 AM
then maybe a rule to ask questions should be, that it gives insight to something
 
@DHMO I studied it a few years ago.
 
@BalarkaSen Good to hear :). I was being discouraged
 
@Null I thought all questions on MSE had to be something new in mathematics. Or at least something unique.
or is that MO?
 
New to mathematics?
 
yeah
 
7:04 AM
@TheGreatDuck Neither of them are 100% new in mathematics but that is mroe geared to MO
 
i have asked quite a few questions that wherent anything new
 
Fairly sure that is absurdly far from the case
 
i thought the question has to actually be related to a new idea
 
@arctictern that would be an insult irl
Try it.
 
or a new method of solving a problem
 
7:05 AM
:-)
 
That's closer to the case @TheGreatDuck
 
@Pissedofflayman most communication is nonverbal. we don't have that luxury here.
 
well yeah, but I didn't think half the questions asking how to solve an integral are allowed here
 
But questions of the form: "Where did I go wrong?" will pop up
 
because they've already been solved before
and documented
rigorously.
 
7:06 AM
They shouldn't be
(allowed here)
[({imo})]
 
It's hard to google these things haha
 
well all integrals have been solved largely
i dont see why we have questions asking about integration by parts
it's not new to math
 
that would be harsh towards a kid. "kids asked this before how babies are made, go read the damn books"
 
Because it's much faster for someone to tell you where you went wrong, than to find it yourself
 
True @artic but it's not a good opener "Hello, nice to meet you Are you a robot?"
 
7:08 AM
@Null I thought this site was purely on new studies in math (or interesting history questions), not learning a previously written subject.
 
A user Ted helped me here two days ago with something I made no progress on for over two hours, and I had it solved in 20 minutes in the most part
 
I have a doubt
 
What is your doubt?
 
about the functioning of this site
 
Well you are in the right conversation
Although I have no idea if this room is meant to be so off topic
 
7:09 AM
I was asked to ask a question after a period of 3 days so i did..
 
for instance
-3
Q: Integrate $\int_0^4 xe^{x+3}\ \text{d}x$

K. Gibson$\int_0^4 xe^xdx$ $u=x$ then $du=1$ $dv=e^x$ and $v=e^x$ This gives: $\int_0^4 xe^x-\int_0^4e^x$ which then gives: $4e^4-1-e^4-1$

this question does not serve to expand mathematics
it has already been solved trivially in the past
 
i asked another question...today and they say wait for more 4 days for next question..
was*
 
isn't it off-topic?
 
And it's -3 @TheGreatDuck
 
@JackDon but why hasn't it been deleted as off-topic?
it's not about math as defined in the help center?
 
7:11 AM
it would be cool in human communication to delete statements of the past
2
 
I don't know enough about the site, but from what I've read, it seems the site evolved to serve a slightly different function
 
"well, i didn't meant that you should fuck yourself. So what about we forget about it?"
 
I disagree with that sentiment, but I am going to do mathematics now
 
actually, "fuck yourself" isn't even an insult. I mean, how does it even work?
 
you're so ugly you're the only one willing to do it with you?
and that just got uncomfortable...
 
7:14 AM
How is it not an insult?
 
@TheGreatDuck: One of the bullets in the help center says: "Mathematical problems such as one might come across in a course or textbook."
 
yep, but such a statement would be probably just false in the majority of cases.
 
@Pissedofflayman because if you literally told someone to go do that in a serious manner it wouldn't actually be insulting. You'd just be telling someone to literally masturbate.
 
Thanks Sir, I'll do as you want. NOW
 
and can we stop now
this is awkward
 
7:15 AM
True^
 
@TheGreatDuck that's a rather exceptional hypothetical situation, asking someone to lierally go and masturbate.
cue robot question again
 
@arctictern null was the one who proposed it
and he is atm half-robot
 
no, i just like my body
 
assuming vader isn't in a space cocoon.
made by the siklewyrms of vaknar 5
 
Hi - everything ok here?
 
7:17 AM
I don't see null advocating a literal interpretation of a widely used figurative expression
@JourneymanGeek for the moment
 
ahh excellent.
 
@JourneymanGeek a couple people posed some uncomfortable questions about whether "F*** you" was actually insulting by default. I don't personally see an issue. I think it was a slight overreaction. It's been over and done with for a good minute or so.
but yeah
what @arctictern said
 
this... escalated quickly
 
ikr?
 
A firemen got "f you" from someone to his bidding to "open the door". His response to the "f you" and opening the door was "thank you very much". Which is imo proffessionalism in person.
Keep your contenance!
 
7:21 AM
@BalarkaSen So how's the math going? lol
 
i'm just trying and keeping awake
 
You know, the expressions "Fuck you" and "Thank you" sound really similar
It's strange one doesn't get misheard for the other more often
 
@arctictern I think @Null was merely asking whether the statement was actually an insult by literal meaning. After all, many of our insults nowadays are literal things that are actually demeaning in some way.
 
I think that most insults nowadays show the lack of competence of the insulter. So in a sense they insult the insulter.
 
not necessarily.
b***urd is insulting as it literally means one born from unmarried parents
though I suppose nobody cares about that nowadays
(or at least it has lost a lot of it's weight sadly enough)
 
7:26 AM
So I clicked on Shifrin's derivatives video:
 
There is no sign of brainpower in any degoritory term thrown at someone. So yes I will take it as an insult, but as an intellectual waste one.
 
> "The time is come, the walrus said, move on to derivatives." audible GASP
 
Yep, heard that
 
I never claimed it was intelligent
merely that it makes sense as an insulting statement
whereas you are correct
f*** you as a literal statement holds no actual insult to it. If taken literally, the only thing it would be is... confusing.
 
(Was the walrus thing an allusion to Alice in Wonderland perhaps?)
 
7:28 AM
i'm not quite sure, but bastard can also mean "of different races", mostly used for dogs. Didn't hear it often in that context tho.
 
@Akiva I would say yes.
I'm stupid, you certainly knew that...
I should probably read that book being a mathematician
2
 
Lewis Carroll is amazing.
 
"If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't."
[plays Westworld theme]
 
Yoooo... One of my friends was telling me I should watch that the other day.
 
You should watch that.
 
7:36 AM
Something about cowboys and robots and nudity haha
 
Who cares for you? You're nothing but a pack of cards!
 
Kind of late to start a movie run, maybe tomorrow...
 
It entertains the idea that maybe humans themselves aren't truly conscious, but only approximating consciousness. And, if that's the case, maybe it's possible to build something more conscious than us.
 
sounds like Matrix stuff
(BTW the above quote is also a theme quote appearing in my favorite Batman comic)
 
I have a simple question : Let $A$ be a n by n matrix. If $a_{1,1}$<0, Is $A$ not positive definite?
 
7:49 AM
@AkivaWeinberger eh. didn't really say humans aren't conscious. hinted at the idea of the hosts becoming more conscious eventually. did imply that humans have their own "loops" and inner workings like hosts.
 
@arctictern I think Dr. Ford, at least, explicitly gave that as his opinion. I don't think any of the other characters also believed that, though
 
not consistent with any of my memory of his statements
 
8:06 AM
@kayak does positive definite mean that for any vector we plug in, all entries of the result are positive?
 
no
kayak's question was answered on main anyway
 
robjohn doesn't chat in here much anymore?
 
ahhh.. I was about to answer the question lol
 
@Pissedofflayman he's a mod
 
true dat
would you @arctictern consider being one?
 
8:17 AM
I did consider it in the past (as anon). Not really interested.
Just a bunch of more work to do.
 
"The anon mod" sounds so...cold.
Not that "artic" is any warmer :P
 
campaigning on the platform of revealing my identity would have in all likelihood won me the job at the time. not that there's anything interesting about it.
 
hell, even finding a suitable question to answer looks like a lot of work
 
a matrix A is element of $\mathbb{R}^{7\times 13}$, does it mean it has 7 columns and 13 lines?
 
I always get that confused.
 
8:22 AM
@Null I think it is usually rows then columns?
but even then I usually don't see that notation
One of my GSIs said something like RC Cola...
 
Graduate Student Intern
Some schools use the term Teaching Assistant
 
more or less the same thing
I should probably go cya guys.
 
8:33 AM
@Dair yeah, makes sense
 
9:28 AM
Anyone here?
 
yes
 
9:49 AM
no
 
 
1 hour later…
11:10 AM
@Akiva You learnt the derivative?
 
I started watching the video on partial derivatives and then had to go to breakfast
 
The Jacobian/derivative is the real thing. Let me know when you get to that.
 
11:39 AM
in The h Bar, 14 mins ago, by John Rennie
Ah, I see what you mean. Yes, it would be more accurate to say that the intersection of SF with young adult literature is, erm, almost total :-)
in The h Bar, 8 mins ago, by John Rennie
I mean SF is almost a subset of young adult. That is most SF is young adult but young adult includes many other genres as well.
in The h Bar, 7 mins ago, by Kaumudi. H
Oh, right, yes :-) If I knew how to write in LaTeX, I would write that as a mathematical statement...
in The h Bar, 3 mins ago, by Secret
Given any set $S$, and a measure $\mu : S\rightarrow [0,1]$
$$\{\textrm{SF}\}\subseteq \{\textrm{young adult literature}\}, \mu((\{\textrm{SF}\}\cap \{\textrm{young adult literature}\})^C)=0$$
I think I fail the set theory exam
 
12:03 PM
?
 
Well mathematically speaking, given (1) the set of all science fiction books and (2) the set of all young adult novels, it is said that (1) is almost a subset of (2) and their intersection is almost total (meaning that the intersection (1) and (2)) approaches that of (2), how will this be wrote in terms of set notations?
Lacking a measure, is it possible to tell how close is $A \cap B = B$ given $A \subseteq B$?
 
the set of books is finite so you have a canonical measure: the counting measure
since there are SF books that are not young adult you have that the measure of the intersection with the complement of YA is non-zero
 
I see
 
unless you have another specific measure in mind
 
Well that's the most natural way so I think it is the answer
 
12:12 PM
but without any measure the only real way I can think of to tell how close $A\cap B$ is to $B$ is to count cardinality of $B$ and $B-A\cap B$ :)
if $B-A\cap B$ has lesser cardinality, you know that $A$ is "taking something away from" B
 
make sense
 
12:49 PM
Hey guys, how do i realize that every metric space consiting of only a singleton $\{x\}$ then the induced Borel sigma algebra is always given by $\{\emptyset, \{x\} \}$ ?
i.e. the trivial sigma algebra?
 
there aren't many open sets in that space
 
1:13 PM
Does someone have an idea of how is called the $\bar{z_1}$ of a complex number?
 
@PichiWuana conjugate
 
@DHMO Thank you very much
 
@PichiWuana de nada
 
Hablas español?
 
un poco
 
1:15 PM
Ah que bien!
And how did you know I speak Spanish? haha
 
@PichiWuana tu description dice que vos sois de venezuela
 
Aaah
 
@DHMO you can speak Hindi too?
 
@Ramanujan no i cannot
 
1:31 PM
@DHMO it was a misclick
 
@GFauxPas got it
 
I asked a question, and it ended up being a novel
 
1:54 PM
[...] Ah I knew where I messed up. Because $01\neq 0$ ffs
 
DHMO I'm trying to figure out how to do polar plots in R :)
 
In what ridiculous structure is $01\neq 0$?
 

 Zero term algebra

All discussions on the ongoing project of algebraic structures...
 
You knew the answer, lol
 
:P
 
1:56 PM
@GFauxPas good luck
 
Are you at uni @Secret?
 
Hopefully I will get an interesting associative division by zero this time, I don't want to see anymore null semigroups in my structrues > : (
@JackDon Nope, uni all closed down in the holidays
 
I meant, are you in a degree for mathematics, sorry
 
nope I am a physics and chemistry double major. but I like to fiddle with maths a lot
another thing which I am studying in my free time is gruop theory
 
I see. Chemistry definitely benefits from group theory and linear representation theory
 

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