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12:01 AM
It's like saying, Addition. Noun. What numbers do.
 
Fun fact: There is a Turing machine with less than 2000 states that doesn't halt iff ZFC is consistent
and the above statement can be proven in ZFC.
Maybe not iff, actually
Actually, probably yes iff
But ZFC alone can't show that it doesn't halt.
 
Bye, time to free my fingers from the keyboard.
 
no Mahmoud dont go
we need you here
 
12:27 AM
I'd tend to define a mathematician as anyone who does mathematics--as removed from elementary arithmetic. Perhaps math enthusiasts aren't professional mathematicians but they are still mathematicians.
Though, that leads to tricky spots with other words: is anyone who ponders philosophy a philosopher?
 
is someone who doesn't think about thinking itself still thinking?
 
if one says "I am a -" it should mean - is an essential part of life/personality
one can be a cook, but not a professional cook, but making pasta frequently does not suficr
 
That makes sense, @Mike. I concede.
 
being professional is not sufficent either
 
12:43 AM
@GFauxPas hi
 
Hi Mr Dahamo
 
@GFauxPas what color are you using for the grid line of the heart?
basically for every heart
and i've fixed the second one
 
I'm trying to replace all of them with red but I messed up and it's hard to tell where I messed up because the way MediaWiki updates is unclear to me
What was the problem ?
 
How to get easy rep: answer easy math questions on the programming site and easy programming questions on the math site
 
@GFauxPas the grid line are very not-see-able
 
12:47 AM
Well they're not very important
In prime movers version they aren't there at all
 
you can draw the second one now
 
I'm done with hearts for at least a few hours
If not the day
 
ok
 
It was a - instead of a +?
 
yes
 
12:50 AM
Post your style suggestions on the talk page, if you want to suggest making the grid lines more pronounced
 
heh, everything is copied from here
the mistake is not seen here as well
 
so, a butt is indeed a heart.
thanks BBT
 
user228700
@DHMO: Yello :-) [Still the same Kaumudi BTW]
 
hi
 
Hi
Say, could someone take a look here and tell me what's so bad with my answer?
 
12:58 AM
@SimpleArt because dy/dx = 1 if y = x
if y is a constant then so is x
and you can't have dy/dx when x is a constant
 
1/0
or 0/0
 
whatever you like more
 
I both love and hate the moments when something about a proof finally occurs to you.
 
@GFauxPas are you here?
 
12:59 AM
@DHMO But x is not a constant if you differentiate with respect to it.
 
It's a mix of "wow that's awesome" and "wow I'm dumb".
 
@SimpleArt if x is not a constant and y=x then how do you say that y is a constant?
look, dy/dx is just a notation
you need to understand the meaning behind the notation
 
@DHMO Check the OP's question
and I totally do, but the OP doesn't
 
namely, dy/dx = lim(Δx->0) Δy/Δx
 
Yes yes, I know
 
1:00 AM
if you totally do, you wouldn't have said things like "if y=x and y is constant then dy/dx=0"
because if y is a constant then x is a constant
 
CHECK THE QUESTION DANG IT DHMO
 
and Δx doesn't make sense if x is a constant
 
please no shouting
 
@Fargle hi
 
the OP is like "why isn't d/dx yx=y, since d/dx mx=m"
 
1:01 AM
Hello @Null
 
@Pissedofflayman And sorry (nice username though)
 
@SimpleArt repeating the same mistake as the OP isn't a valid answer nor a valid explanation
 
@Fargle the heartbutt is finally discovered mathworld.wolfram.com/HeartCurve.html
 
@DHMO I'm not repeating the mistake, I'm making the mistake more obvious
 
1:03 AM
you didn't even explain it
 
I'm here now
The images are showing correctly on proofwiki, did you change something?
 
How about now?
and I got to wash dishes
 
Yeah that first heart is definitely a butt
 
@GFauxPas I was just trying to create my own hearts
 
Why not try to create your own butts?
 
Oh ho
What software did you use?
 
desmos
 
It's fine but I might do it in R just to make all the graphs the same style
Also, we can make a new page, Butt Curve
Why does your heart not have s heart attack at t=0 from the log?
 
How do I know
 
It had a ln|t|
 
1:20 AM
I have no idea how that works
 
Well in any event I'm done with hearts for today
 
 
1:57 AM
Mick, power series don't work like polynomials
You can't move from polynomials to power series and assume all the properties stay the same. Some do, some dont, and there's a lot of "depends"
@mick
 
2:40 AM
 
2:51 AM
hi chat
 
Hi semiclassic — I seem to be invisible ...
 
$15^{15}$
 
Hmmm, quite dead ...
 
3:06 AM
@TedShifrin Hi!
 
We're all dead here.
3
At least inside.
 
u should be writing
 
well, yes
 
3:11 AM
Debbie Reynolds :(
 
Ugh, yeah.
 
Carrie's death probably broke her heart
 
Yeah, you have to wonder.
 
I seem to remember them not liking each other much
 
Mother and daughter?
 
3:14 AM
more like brother and laughter
 
If y=x
Then if y=constant
Then dy/dx=0/0?
 
Hi @Fargle
 
@Ramanujan i think so
 
no, you guys are writing garbage.
 
@Semiclassical As if that makes it out of the question...
 
3:16 AM
Ramanujan let $x = 2$ and differentiate both sides WRT $x$. Then $1 = 0$, magic!
5
 
True enough. Doing some quick googling indicates that they were estranged during Carrie Fisher's 20s but had bonded again since then
 
I really like this article
 
@GFauxPas but what's going wrong??
I will be back after having breakfast :D
 
At the end of the day, Leibniz notation is just that---notation. If you can get the correct intuition from it, great; if not, don't read more into it than is actually there.
 
in the example $x = y = \text{constant}$, you don't have $y$ defining a differentiable function of $x$.
You take the derivative of differentiable functions
$x = 2$ does not define a differentiable function of $x$
 
3:23 AM
x=y=constant isn't even a well-formed statement.
 
now, if you have $y = f(x) = \text{constant}$, you have $y$ being a differentiable function of $x$. Because the constant there is a constant function
 
constant with respect to what variable? it's certainly not x, since x isn't a constant.
 
Why can't I say $x = y = 2$?
 
hmm. i guess what i mean is that it's not a variable you can differentiate with respect to
 
they're constants, not constant mappings. I should be more clear
 
3:25 AM
any more than you can differentiate with respect to the number 2.
 
right, I'm just trying to precisely pinpoint where Ramanujan's problem is, so I can articulate it correctly
$\dfrac{\mathrm d}{\mathrm d2}2 = 1$, obviously
 
oh, i wasn't actually saying that to you---it was a follow-up to what I was saying re: being a well-formed statement.
Though I'm not sure what terminology to use.
 
I'm just trying to play along
 
I want to feel belonged :(
 
3:26 AM
where I was going was that you could have x(t)=y(t)=2.
that'd be perfectly reasonable.
but then you'd consider differentiation with respect to t, not x or y.
 
right, I guess the difference is you can differentiate constant mappings, but not constant numbers
Except I don't see things like $2(t) + 3(t) = 5(t)$ for $t > 0$
 
actually, you do---when you think of 2(t) as multiplication not function notation :)
 
I wanted to see what it would do
 
3:34 AM
@Ted: I don't know why but the problem in your book that asks for a parametrization of the circle by the y-intercept of the line going between a point on the circle and (-1,0) gave me a lot of trouble, but I cracked it.
 
I think it helps to realize that $x$ is in some sense a dummy variable. what matters isn't the name or label we give it.
 
@GFauxPas obviously?
is $\frac00=1$?
 
nowadays AI means search engine. 20 years ago it was skynet
 
@robjohn it was a joke
 
@GFauxPas okay
 
3:34 AM
have you been following the whole thread of covnersation
 
search engine=AI, what a joke^^
 
what matters is that it sends certain inputs to certain outputs.
 
swhat I get for jumping in
 
yup
 
if you write x=y=2, though, you can't regard it as a dummy variable. it's got a specific value.
there's probably some good analogy in programming, e.g. a variable that's defined in the course of some operation versus one that's assigned explicitly.
 
3:36 AM
local and global variables?
 
maybe.
 
oh I see what you mean
the difference between declaring a variable and assigning it
I think that's a good analogy
 
right.
 
or something with scope
scope gets me confused
 
right.
i suppose you could say it like this: a local variable is one whose value you don't know before and after an operation.
a global variable is one which you do know.
 
3:39 AM
Are you a professor semi?
 
nah. grad student
 
cool
 
of course, this analogy becomes problematic: What's the analogue of taking the derivative of a function and then evaluating it at a specific point?
 
that's two steps, an operator on f and the image of Df at a point
 
sure.
 
3:40 AM
except in Calc we often combine them together
 
in the above analogy, though, i think it amounts to changing the scope of the variable.
 
why are we arguing about garbage?
 
because you weren't here
 
@GFauxPas please add ur opinion here proofwiki.org/wiki/Category_talk:Pandigital_Fractions
 
opinion added there
 
3:44 AM
responded
 
what is "clinically proven" supposed to mean?
 
in what context, medicine?
 
@Null nothing at all
it's just a slogan
 
ads
 
it means proven through a clinical trial
 
3:45 AM
that makes people think that the product is reliable
 
@robjohn hat looks nice on you
 
What it's supposed to mean is that it's been tested by scientists and shown to have the effect that it's advertising.
 
@GFauxPas x=2 is a vertical line in graph
 
In practice...pretty much bullshit.
 
@BalarkaSen thanks
 
3:47 AM
So a line is not differentiable
 
a vertical line
 
@Ramanujan a vertical line (on a graph with vertical y and horizontal x) isn't a function of x.
 
@Ramanujan your question wouldn't even arise if you learnt calculus properly
it just doesn't make sense
 
OK,a horizontal line
 
a horizontal line is a function of x, albeit a constant one.
 
3:48 AM
He's trying to learn Calculus properly by asking questions here
nothing wrong with that
 
A line is not differentiable
 
you can put in the equation of a line into the difference quotient and get a meaningful answer
 
a horizontal line, considered as a constant function of x, is differentiable.
 
if the equation has y in terms of x
or y as a constant function of x
 
it's got a well-defined slope at each value of x. that value just happens to be zero---it's flat, after all.
 
3:50 AM
more generally, the equation of a line is $Ax + By + C = 0$
you can attempt to differentiate that WRT x, or WRT y
but make sure your answer makes sense
 
how is a vector with infinite length called?
 
because if you get $3y + 2 = 0$, you can differentiate both sides with respect to $x$, but not WRT $y$, for example
you mean with an infinite number of components?
 
Ok
 
@GFauxPas There is something wrong with that
 
Please correct me, I'd love to learn somethign new
 
3:55 AM
no
 
Well hold your mouse over my comment to find out!
 
a vector that is of infinite length from the origin
 
There's really three things one can do in that case. One can regard everything in there as a function of $x$, and therefore differentiate w/r/t x. Or one can regard it as a function of x, and differentiate w/r/t y.
or one can regard 3y+2 as a function of x and y. in that case you can take either derivative, but these will now be partial derivatives.
 
in $\mathbb R^n$?
 
yep
 
3:56 AM
I'm not sure it's a vector then.
 
A vector of infinite length from the origin can (arguably) make sense in some contexts, but as written it's not a well-defined object.
 
Can be it expressed in terms of a basis?
 
only if $\infty$ is an element of R
 
it isn't
and if you make it one, you'd need to make $-\infty$ one as well, and you'd need $\infty - \infty = 0$, and you're going to have problems
 
but which length has a vector in R^4 with the following coordinates: (1,1,1,1)?
 
3:58 AM
It makes sense if you include infinity by working in projective space, but that requires more care than just 'hey there's a point at infinity'
do you mean, what's the distance of that coordinate from the origin?
 
oh, yes
 
it's sqrt(1^2+1^2+1^2+1^2)=2 if you're doing the usual Euclidean metric.
 
@Fargle: That's the rational parametrization of a conic ...
 
Oh no, Ted's here
 
Run!!!!
 
4:00 AM
hide the Leibniz notation
 
In any $\Bbb R^k$, you've always got the Euclidean metric $d(x,y)=\sqrt{\sum_k (x_k-y_k)^2}$
 
so $v\in\mathbb{R}^{\infty}$ would make no sense either
 
he's here to take your $\dfrac {\mathrm d}{\mathrm dt}$'s away
 
@Null Eh, it could. In fact, in Hilbert space that's the name of the game.
 
@Semiclassical good to know
 
4:02 AM
But in those cases one has to be careful about which vectors are allowed.
 
What's $\mathbb R^\infty$, is it $\bigcup_{n \ge 1} \mathbb R^n$?
 
@Null you willing to test my website again?
 
Nah. RxRxRxR....
 
@ZachHauk ok
 
ror
rokay
 
just as R^3 is RxRxR
 
@ZachHauk but you could do it yourself
 
@Null no, because when i do it myself it resolves locally,
 
so the tuples are sequences?
 
4:03 AM
for instance, the vector (1,0,0,....) is still a distance 1 from the zero vector if you do the Euclidean metric.
any vector that has finitely many nonzero entries will have a finite distance as well.
you can also wonder about stuff like (1,1/2,1/3,1/4,...)
 
@ZachHauk with what you made it?
 
In that case, computing the distance would lead to a convergent series and therefore a finite distance.
 
@TedShifrin I hadn't seen it before, or if I had, I couldn't remember it.
 
on the other hand (1,1/sqrt(2),1/sqrt(3),...) doesn't work so well...
 
@Null SSH, a text editor and a keyboard :)
 
4:06 AM
I just kept hunting too hard for an equation besides the one provided by similarity of triangles...and then realized $x^2 + y^2 = 1$ was sitting in front of me.
 
This arises in applications when you consider Fourier series. In that case you've got an infinite number of Fourier coefficients, typically nonzero.
 
@ZachHauk good good
 
@Null took a while to find a font that wasn't awful
 
Yup @Fargle. You can also do it with double angle formulae.
 
@TedShifrin I thought about doing that but I wasn't sure how to work $t$ into all of it, and didn't want to strain myself. >_>
 
4:07 AM
Weierstrass substitution, oh me oh my
 
My train has been delayed two hours.
 
Hi @TedShifrin
 
$t=\tan\theta$
 
@ZachHauk i only ever managed to make huhnkatze.eu.pn with tools and no knowledge haha
(was just recreational)
 
It's sorta amazing how useful Weierstrass substitution is.
 
4:08 AM
Where is it flying, Mike?
 
sorry i haven't been doing math and stuff, I've been trying to set up this personal website of mine with this "new" (from 1998) laptop my sister gave me
 
:P
 
Hi @Zach.
 
LA.
 
just got the server up and running, and set up SSH
 
4:09 AM
Windows 98 @ZachHauk?
 
@JackDon that's what it had
i installed ubuntu server 16.04 on it
 
Good operating system, nice clean blues.
 
which comes with apache webserver
lol i had to talk with my ISP's customer service so that they could open up port 80 for me
 
@ZachHauk do you use a smartphone? (i mean not now, in general)
 
yes, i do
 
4:15 AM
maybe now on my holidays I finally install linux
 
 
1 hour later…
5:15 AM
@GFauxPas x = y = 2 means x = y, y = 2, and x = 2 by the transitive property of equality.
@Ramanujan recall a vertical line has no slope.
While the slope of every horizontal line is 0.
 
@Pissedofflayman it has a slope, it's just that a vertical line is no function by definition
 
What is the value of the slope of a vertical line?
 
that question is ill worded
 
how so?
 
i said it has a slope, not that it would be of value x.
like, it doesnt even matter
 
5:26 AM
Ok, define slope please.
 
slope has no meaningful definition, at least for me, so i pass here
 
rise/run
 
whats slope in R^3 then?
or in some wierdo space
 
same thing
 
i guess there exists one where rise/fall makes no sense
 
5:28 AM
not "fall"
run or horizontal change.
"fall" is the opposite of "rise"
 
there is a different term of slope
street slope
 
100% is 90°
sry
45°
i think
 
Yes
Does a flat street have a slope?
 
0
 
5:34 AM
How about going down hill?
 
-x%
 
Yes, negative values.
 
never saw that tho as a sign
mmh i see
a vertical line has no slope
 
In short, a vertical line has no slope because you cannot divide by a 0 value for "run"
 
because it can be rising or falling, and it ambigious
 
5:36 AM
True.
 
hehe, you never know all :)
that is schrödingers function
until defined it is in a superposition of rising and falling xd
 
2 hours ago, by DHMO
why are we arguing about garbage?
 
Are we doing tangent bundles here?
 
nope
 
5:53 AM
@Null are you ready for a test question of your understanding of slope?
Apply the same reasoning to the idea of "tilt" and answer this question:
What is the tilt of a vertical line?
And a horizontal line?
:-)
 
It has no value, because it could be either, tilted "downwards" or "upwards". A workaround for that would be "infty=-infty" for that case alone, but rather useless.
a horizontal line has no tilt, i assume
 

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