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9:00 PM
Sorry, I mis-typed it:

I(X, A) = \sum_{\ell} O\left( \Pr[A=\ell] \left(1-\frac{\Pr[A=\ell\mid X=0]}{\Pr[A=\ell\mid X=1]}\right)^2 \right)
 
I am working on a proof, im almost there, but i need a little help in the final step
 
@ClementC. I wanted to ask you if you have an idea about this: math.stackexchange.com/questions/1759898/distance-of-bch-code
 
Which proof
 
Or weren't you referring to me? :) @ClementC.
 
@Evinda Sorry, cannot really help you there :/
 
9:01 PM
A ok...
 
@WardBeullens what proof are you studying?
 
@Mambo The last thing i need is to finish a proof is the following:
Given a homotopy T : [0,1] X M -> TM starting from the zero section, there exists an epsilon such that for all t in [0,epsilon] T(t,\cdot) is the graph of a vector field.
I hope I am making myself clear.
 
Can you give a link to the proof you are referring ?
 
@Mambo if I understood correctly, it's a proof he is writing, not one he is reading
 
Indeed, I am making a proof myself for a homework.
 
9:09 PM
(sorry to ask again, but no one has a clue about how I should start to prove this inequality? I guess there is some trick i'm not seeing, to get rid of the logs and make this appear...)
I could go on taking this for granted, but that's a crucial part of the proof, and it seems wrong to just build on it without understanding where it comes form.
 
@ClementC. I cant help you, sorry
 
@WardBeullens What about $M$ and $TM$?
 
M is a smooth manifold, and TM is it's tangent bundle
You can assume that M is compact if that is necessary
It probably is necessary
 
$TM $ is the set of all tangent vector fields, right?
 
Its the Set of all the tangent vectors
 
9:16 PM
Oh sorry, yes
 
Ayo
the gradient of a vector wrt to a vector is a matrix?
How do you use the matrix to update the vector?
 
@WardBeullens presumably you want to say T(t,-) is a section of TM->M for all t
@Anthony huh?
 
@Anthony what does gradient of a vector wrt a vector mean?
 
Yeah I just said a lot of nonsense.
 
it means $\partial f_i/\partial x_j$ @Balarka
by update do you mean provide a linear approximation for $f$ in a nbhd of the original $x$?
 
9:22 PM
Yeah
I guess I have to choose a direction?
 
That's called gradient of a function, last I heard.
 
that would be $f(x+h)\approx f(x)+f'(x)h$, where $x,h,f(x)$ are vectors and $f'(x)$ is the matrix
 
I guess that makes perfect sense. What is up with my head lol
 
@BalarkaSen well, yes, a vector function is indeed a function, but we can distinguish from the gradient of a scalar function
 
morning @anon
 
9:23 PM
morning
 
edit out "gradient" by "jacobian" in my comment.
 
@anon no, i dont need that it suffices fot t in [0, epsilon] In general it's not true i think for all t
 
@WardBeullens Consider [0,1]xS^1 -> TS^1 defined by (t,x)->(R(t)x,0), where R(t) is rotation by t radians. This is a homotopy of the zero section S^1->TS^1 but no T(t,-) is a vector field for any t>0 no?
 
Evening people.
How's life here?
't Has been a while.
 
heya farin
 
9:27 PM
Hey Anon.
 
Hi @Lord_Farin
 
@anon: That's still a section of the tangent bundle for all $t$ if you reparameterize the base. The point that one wants to see is that given a $C^1$ section of some bundle, some small perturbation of this (as a submanifold!) is still a section (as a submanifold).
 
I must say that people are harder to recognise since I've discovered that Gravatar uses their simple avatars for tracking purposes and I've had to block them.
 
AKA, you can't break the fact that there's only one element of the submanifold in every fiber by a small $C^1$ homotopy.
 
@Lord_Farin Are you maybe familiar with coding theory?
 
9:28 PM
@MikeMiller Thats exactly what i mean!
 
@Evinda Hey. What type of coding theory are we talking about? Regular languages and such?
 
@WardBeullens: Let $s_t$ be your map from $M$ to $TM$. (This actually has nothing to do with the tangent bundle; it works for all vector bundles, or even fiber bundles.) Compose with the projection $\pi: TM \to M$.
 
@MikeMiller So we want to show T(t,-) for every t<epsilon is a section if we reparametrize the base?
 
$\pi s_0$ is the identity. What can you say about the differential of $(\pi s_t)$ for small $t$?
@anon Yeah.
 
@Lord_Farin BCH codes
 
9:30 PM
@MikeMiller I know it doesnt matter, i actually need it for the cotangent bundle :)
 
@anon What's the second order term?
 
Hessian?
 
@Anthony hessian matrix used as quadratic form on h
I suppose that's for scalar functions. just do it componentwise for vector functions then.
 
@Evinda I'm afraid that I don't know anything about those.
:(
 
Ok, no problem @Lord_Farin
 
9:32 PM
@anon I see. And what's the third order term for scalar functions? (This is what I was actually interested in, I forgot I knew the Hessian was the second order)
 
@anon As we'll see in a minute this is more or less just the statement that $C^1$ small perturbations of diffeomorphisms are still diffeomorphisms
 
@Anthony derivative of Hessian
 
@BalarkaSen Oh duh
 
@Anthony write out the first-order terms and second-order terms explicitly and you'll know how to generalize with tensors
 
You consider hessian as a matrix valued function from $\Bbb R^n$ to the space of $n \times n$ matrices.
 
9:33 PM
Okay there are tensors
 
@MikeMiller I guess the differential is itself a vector field? I don't get what you are getting at yet
 
And you differentiate.
Then you get a 3-linear form, or a tensor, or whatever
 
@WardBeullens: No, the differential is just a linear map on each tangent space.
 
@BalarkaSen You just missed me many hours ago, sorry
 
It's ok.
 
9:33 PM
Note that $\pi s_t$ is a map $M \to M$. I want you to tell me what you can about $d(\pi s_t)_x$ given that $d(\pi s_0)_x = \text{Id}$.
 
Hm, I deduce that ignoring differential geometry for over two years didn't magically make me proficient at it :/.
 
What do you do with your life?
 
@MikeMiller I've sold out and become a software engineer/solution architect.
 
Ah, then there's no harm in never knowing a wide swath of beautiful mathematics. :)
 
@anon So I guess I'll regret asking, but what's the difference between the word tensor and word multidimensional array here?
 
9:37 PM
nothing
 
@MikeMiller I often feel bad about it, but it was actually the first field I accepted I will never be good at.
My intuition sucks.
 
@MikeMiller Doesn't tensor mean something different?
 
I have to tell myself the above sentence near-daily, and this is as a grad student when I hypothetically have time to do all this...
 
@MikeMiller Im sorry but what do you mean by d(..)_x? Is it normal that i dont see formatted latex in this chat?
 
@Anthony They're the same.
Tensors are multilinear maps R^n x R^n x ... x R^n ---> R
You can think of that as a multidimensional array just fine
 
9:38 PM
@Anthony On a manifold, sure. But in the context you're thinking of, "tensor" is to "multidimensional array" as "linear map" is to "matrix".
 
Tensors are just bad excuses to have bilinear maps in category theory
 
with respect to a coordinate system, a tensor is represented by a multidimensional array, the same way vectors are represented as column vectors and linear transformations represented by arrays. mathematicians have abstract tensors without coordinates as well. physicists would use the term tensor to refer to what a mathematician might be more comfortable calling a tensor field too.
 
@WardBeullens It means the differential of that map at the point $x$.
 
That's not me talking, that was a prof of mine
I do not agree with him, totally
 
@MikeMiller Allow me to take that as evidence that the world hasn't changed :).
 
9:40 PM
I thought tensors had to have some kind of transformation law or something associated with them
 
You're thinking of tensors as in algebra, maybe.
 
You get a PhD, @Lord_Farin? Or did you quite while you were ahead earlier?
 
They're cool ways to convert multilinear maps into linear maps from a suitable domain, nothing more.
 
@MikeMiller I stopped after I graduated. Looked for a suitable PhD for half a year, but the US were not an option for me and EU financing for fundamental research sucks big time.
We're talking Summer 2013 here.
 
@Lord_Farin Hi
 
9:42 PM
@Anthony Presumably you're thinking of laws that dictate how what anon calls "tensor fields" change under coordinate transformations. A tensor field is just a tensor at every point.
 
What do you do now ?
 
Where "tensor" ~ "multidimensional array".
 
7 mins ago, by Lord_Farin
@MikeMiller I've sold out and become a software engineer/solution architect.
 
@MikeMiller I'm thinking of some terrible mess of confused terminology that's come from me hearing physicists say tensor and looking to wikipedia for definitions since I was a freshman
sigh
 
@Anthony I've had so much fun taking a classical field theory class and a differential geometry class at the same time.
 
9:44 PM
@MikeMiller Ok, then d(pi s_t)_x is a linear map from TM_x to TM_{\pi s_t(x)} but i don't know what d(pi s_0)_x being equal to the identity says about it?
 
@Lord_Farin lol
 
Going to the physics professor: So actually when you say X you mean Y, and this funky notation just means dualizing, isn't it?
 
my brain
 
I don't attend physics lectures at my institute. Most of the time we end up in fighting
 
@WardBeullens Let's start simpler. Suppose you have a continuous family of matrices $A_t$, if $A_0$ is the identity matrix (or any invertible matrix), what can you say about $A_t$ when $t$ is small?
 
9:46 PM
The best part was when the prof looked relieved that at least one person got what he was talking about for 90 minutes.
 
@Mambo Why did you ask, btw?
 
@MikeMiller Ah A_t is invertible, because the determinant is a countinous function
*continuous
 
Right. For small $t$, $A_t$ is invertible.
So we just learned that for small $t$ (where here, $t$ depends on $x$), $d(\pi s_t)_x$ is invertible.
@anon Can you pin the ChatJaX link?
 
@Lord_Farin I am in my last year of undergrad.
 
9:48 PM
@MikeMiller it's in the room description
 
@Mambo I see. Are you contemplating what to do next?
 
@MikeMiller Yeah I think I just meant tensors, not tensor fields- the wiki page says "Just as the components of a vector change when we change the basis of the vector space, the components of a tensor also change under such a transformation. Each tensor comes equipped with a transformation law that details how the components of the tensor respond to a change of basis."
 
I would like to pursue PhD
I have an offer
 
@Mambo Nice! What area?
 
@WardBeullens To see the TeX I'm writing, look at the "LaTeX in chat" link in the top right.
 
9:50 PM
@MikeMiller Ok i get it. So d(pi s_t)_x is invertible for t small enough. I guess using the compactness of M We know that there exists a t such that d(pi s_t)_x is invertible for all x in M
 
@WardBeullens Right.
So what do we learn about the map $\pi s_t$, for small $t$?
 
@Lord_Farin Somewhere between functional analysis and harmonic analysis
 
@Anthony That's such a worthless sentence, to be honest.
Do you think of matrices in terms of "transformation laws"? Or even vectors?
 
@MikeMiller It is a diffeomorphism?
 
@Mambo Cool. I always loved functional analysis.
 
9:52 PM
@WardBeullens Yes. This is slightly nontrivial, but only slightly. We see that it's an immersion, by the above. Because it's an immersion between compact manifolds of the same dimension, it's a covering map. Because the map is homotopic to the identity, it's a diffeomorphism. But there are other ways of concluding that it's a diffeomorphism.
That's just the first that came to mind.
 
Is it what you want or were you simply offered this opportunity?
 
I am happy about the offer
 
@MikeMiller I mean, no, but physics books like Griffiths have also made it a point to mention this. What are they trying to say?
 
@MikeMiller Thanks a lot, that was reall helpfull! Do you know of another way of concluding that it is a diffeomorphism?
 
Hadamard's global inverse function theorem, I think.
 
9:55 PM
Will you pursue PhD ? @Lord_Farin
 
@BalarkaSen Lobal :P.
You mean glocal.
2
 
@WardBeullens You get that it's a covering map for all small $t$, so all you need to do is show that one of the fibers only has a single element in it.
This is probably straightforward but not entirely obvious to me.
@Anthony I don't know, dude. Some garbage, no doubt.
 
Alright- thanks everyone, as always.
 
@Lord_Farin You didn't see anything.
 
@Anthony Physicists are obsessed with coordinates and calculations, so they somehow got obsessed with change-of-basis stuff.
 
9:56 PM
@Mambo I probably won't. Part of the reason I stopped looking for one was that I felt the required focus on a single topic was antithetical to how I completed my entire degree, with a broad range of concurrent topics.
 
@MikeMiller Ok i did't know that immersions between compact manifolds of the same dimension are covering maps. So I wanted to avoid that. But nevermind, with that reference i can complete my proof :) Thanks again!
 
@BalarkaSen And thence, a myth is formed.
 
@Ward Feel free to try to prove its a diffeomorphism otherwise. I just don't know how to do so without any thought off the top of my head. :)
 
@MikeMiller They are trying to say global tensor field without saying global, formally defining coordinate charts, or (mathematical) tensors, for that matter.
At least, that's what I remembered.
 
I guess I retract my comment because the only context I have used the global inverse function theorem is for R^n. Probably you need simple connectedness of some sort.
 
9:59 PM
Sounds like garbage.
 
@MikeMiller That's because they're terms in differential geometry.
;)
@Lord_Farin @Balarka Look, it's written in the stars.
 
There is a global inverse function theorem on a general setup
@Lord_Farin How did you refer yourself there?
 
@Mambo Triangle to the left click -> permalink hover -> memorise last number in the link -> type ":nnnnn "
@Lord_Farin Easy as that.
 
@MikeMiller Just in case you might be interested: You helped me prove the following statement: "Let (M,\omega) be a symplectic manifold , L a compact lagrangean submanifold with H^1(L) = 0 for a smooth family of lagrangean submanifolds parametrized by t such that L_{t=0} = L it holds that there is an epsilon such that L_t intersects L_0 for all t in (-epsilon,epsilon)"
 
":29276011" Did it work
:29276011
It didn't work @Lord_Farin
 
10:06 PM
@Mambo I think you have to type something.
Oh, I see you can also simply hover the triangle and read the number from there.
 
@Lord_Farin Like this
Were you pinged?
 
@Ward: Yes, this question was on MSE a few days ago and I gave the same argument then. I wonder if you're taking the same class.
 
@Mambo Yes :).
 
@Mambo check check
Wow I pinged myself
 
Congratulations!
 
10:10 PM
@Mambo Nice one :).
 
Thank you @quid
@Lord_Farin
 
Also, check this link for an easier way to do it.
 
@quid Now I've got to try this too.
 
@MikeMiller can you give a link to the question? I can find out :)
 
You can find it in my recent answers.
 
10:11 PM
Oh, right :)
 
@quid Oh dear, what horror will come from this?
 
@Mambo thank you for highlighting it. One even actually gets the ping.
 
@Mambo @quid Yes. I don't understand why but it is so much fun to do it
 
@Lord_Farin well it seems you are the proliferator of this dubious craft. You'd better thought about it before.
 
Wait what
 
10:14 PM
So @Mambo, to get back at your PhD, I think if you both have the desire and the opportunity then by all means you should go for it.
@quid It will wane.
 
@Krijn This works?
 
...
 
@Lord_Farin I am overthinking about my family
 
@MikeMiller I don't know who it is, but since he is asking questions about the other questions on the homework i am quite sure he is in the same class :)
 
Can I also refer to messages in the future?
 
10:15 PM
@Krijn Let's see.
 
:29276239 Hello time traveler here
 
lol
 
lol
 
@Lord_Farin :D
 
You edited into the future
 
10:16 PM
It's tough to predict the ID.
 
@Krijn Try 29276035
 
:29276255 Blah
 
@Krijn Does this crash the system?
 
What the hell are we doing
 
I'm refering to my own post inside that post
 
10:17 PM
@BalarkaSen I'm sorry.
 
lol
 
:29276279 Blah
Op, near miss
 
@BalarkaSen Try 29276259
 
It's already been done
 
nope
 
10:18 PM
:29276291 Ugh.
 
@Mambo The post IDs are network-wide for all chats.
 
Ah, so we can't ping someone from the other chat using this?
 
@Mambo What are you specifically concerned about?
 
@BalarkaSen Did it ping you?
 
It did.
 
10:19 PM
@BalarkaSen I'm not sure, but you can't ping people who haven't been in the room.
 
:29276321 Let's try again.
 
I used : 29276259 to ping you @BalarkaSen
 
Oh come on.
All near missises.
 
@Lord_Farin They are already expecting
 
10:20 PM
@Lord_Farin Yeah, I know, but how about someone who's already been here?
 
@Ward I remember something similar from my PDE course I took last year, where I answered a question I had done in the homework the previous day...
 
:29276339 Ping.
OK, I give up.
 
@BalarkaSen Try 29276334
I am pretty sure
 
@BalarkaSen I think the way the mechanism works makes it only apply to messages in this room.
 
It's already been used before.
 
10:22 PM
But you should be able to ping really old stuff that has e.g. garnered some stars.
 
I am trying to ping some message of the future.
By not cheating, that is.
@Lord_Farin I definitely hope so.
 
What has been used?
 
:29276390
 
@quid The ID Mambo was referring to.
That's 98. Chat is too clever.
 
@Mambo Expecting you to do a PhD or not to do it?
 
10:24 PM
Ah. I am a bit slow today.
 
@quid So is @Balarka. That's why he failed so far ;).
 
@Krijn I wonder if it's possible that you write down an ID and it turns out your message is that one, and you do a non-cheated self-ping through the process.
 
If.
We.
Post.
Like.
 
This.
 
So.
It.
 
10:25 PM
Will.
 
WIll.
Trigger.
 
The.
 
@Lord_Farin They have no idea what a PhD is about. They expect me to work.
 
A.
 
@BalarkaSen We should've at least applied maths to optimize our predictions
 
10:26 PM
Spam.
 
Bot.
 
Warning.
 
@Mambo PhD is work.
Although I realise that's a bit too easy.
Is it US-based?
 
Canada
 
Is it scholarship-based or actually a paid position?
 
10:27 PM
@krijn we should definitely try this out at some point in the sandbox chat.
 
Yes. it is
 
@Mambo Which? :)
 
I think people here will kick us out if we do it for too long.
 
@BalarkaSen Sandbox chat?
 
Scholarship based
@BalarkaSen you didn't ping yourself
 
10:29 PM
@Mambo I see. In that case it depends.
Do you want to pursue an academic career?
 
@Mambo I wasn't trying to. I was trying to ping a future post.
Admittedly it didn't work out.
 
:29276558
 
Someone send two messages with like 1 sec in between
 
one
two
 
Or I can do that of course
 
10:32 PM
Why not just take this in the sandbox chat? It's fun, but we don't want to ruin the math chat.
 
True
 
@Lord_Farin I am trying my best to convince my parents. I should think about doing part-time job then
 
@BalarkaSen ... he says, after 30 mins.
@Mambo Usually there is some opportunities for tuition of undergrads.
But generally I would consider that a bad idea.
 
Why?
 
Because you won't have the time.
That = part-time job.
Tuition is fine.
 
10:34 PM
@Lord_Farin Hey, great ideas take their time to come.
 
Then?
 
@BalarkaSen Such truth, many thanks.
:)
@Mambo I'd say everything hinges on you wanting to pursue an academic career.
If you don't, I'd reconsider the PhD.
Because at least here in Europe, it doesn't have much value other than on the academic path.
@Ted.
 
Hi, @Lord. I hope I've missed the annoying silliness above.
 
Yep!
 
@Lord_Farin It's my fault @Ted.
 
10:37 PM
In the US people do pursue non-academic careers with Ph.D.'s ... particularly more applied subjects, but not limited to that.
Why are you pinging yourself, @Lord?
 
@TedShifrin To provide you with context.
 
Oh.
 
lol
 
Heya ynaughty :)
 
@Lord_Farin it depends a bit where and in which field. But I'd agree that if it is practically complicated for some reason to do then it might not be worth it.
 
10:39 PM
@Lord_Farin It brought lots of horror alright.
 
@Balarka: I believe you have work to do.
 
@BalarkaSen you seem easy to scare.
 
@TedShifrin I did work! I think I understand Green better.
 
@Lord_Farin I have two months to decide. I hope I would go for PhD
 
@BalarkaSen "I can justify not working! Really!!1!!!11"
 
10:41 PM
All it says is that if you draw a loop, add up the infinitisimal swirlies of the vector field corresponding to some $1$-form $\omega$ inside the loop, then you get the global swirly of $\omega$ on the loop.
 
Hi @TedShifrin
 
Such a liar :P
 
@Lord_Farin I procrastinated for 15 minutes. C'mon.
 
@Balarka: So you're referring to $d\omega$ as the infinitesimal swirlies?
 
@BalarkaSen "Móóóm!"
:P
 
10:42 PM
Hi @Ted. Looks like I've been doing folks Symplextix geometry homework.
 
Well, $d\omega$ is $(\partial G/\partial x - \partial F/\partial y) dx \wedge dy$. $\partial G/\partial x - \partial F/\partial y$ is what measures the infinitesimal swirlies of the vector field $X = (F, G)$.
 
For what course where, @MikeM?
OK, @Balarka, you can see that explained explicitly in section 6.
 
@Mambo From what I gather and understand that's a perfectly valid option. But I guess others here are more qualified to advise you than I am.
 
Oh, that reminds me. I have fundamental group/covering space homeworks to grade.
 
@Lord_Farin is that from horrid henry
 
10:44 PM
I was out playing bridge and shopping and forgot.
 
@BalarkaSen Nah, just my putrid mind annoying you.
Don't know if there's much difference, though.
@TedShifrin Might I suggest straight Fs and regrading those who complain?
 
Only two students, @Lord, in a long-distance course. And they're doing quite superbly. They've done (with only criticism from me and not so much help) about twice as much as the course standardly covers with a lecture.
 
That sounds really awesome, @Ted.
 
What is a long-distance course?
 
Although my cynical part immediately questions the standard curriculum.
 
10:47 PM
Yeah, UGA canceled the topology course and I agreed to do it with them long distance (in my retirement). But they've been quite amazing. Two third-year students.
 
@Lord_Farin It was nice speaking with you. Thank you for the support and self-pinging stuff.
 
ynaughty: They're registered for a UGA course, but since I've retired and moved across the country I can't officially offer the course.
 
Ooh. Where are you now?
 
My pleasure, @Mambo! Good luck weighing all options and I hope that you can come to a decision you're happy with.
 
San Diego, CA, ynaughty.
@Lord: Even when I taught the course, I only covered about 2/3 of what we've done. And I tend to push very, very hard.
 
10:50 PM
@TedShifrin Can you give me some important exercises from section 3 I should do?
 
Heya DogAteMy :)
 
I did the ones you gave me from section 2, by the way. Including #15 (I don't remember?) which you said comes up in diffgeom. Not really hard though.
 
Send #15 to me; I want to make sure you got it correct.
 
@Ted That sounds really, really nice. I imagine you take pleasure in supervising this duo.
 
10:52 PM
Yes, @Lord, it's been a pleasure. I assume I'm writing for at least one of them for grad school.
 
It's also consistent with my most productive and exponential learning periods being in small groups.
A small group of homogeneous capabilities is almost unrivalled in what it can achieve.
 
Well, I'm used to providing a lot of intuition/guidance in lectures and office hours, @Lord, and this has all been by email grading their stuff.
 
Which makes it all the more impressive @Ted.
How's life otherwise?
 
@Balarka: 7 is more interesting than it looks, 8 should be trivial, 16, 18 is important for later, 20b is surprisingly difficult, 23 I made up years ago and am very proud of, 25 is interesting but not theoretical, and 26 is awesomely cool (google planimeter).
Pretty good, @Lord. Still missing teaching (obviously, since I waste my time here and in a high school), but having some fun and planning on doing more traveling.
 
If 8 is trivial why is it 8
Like, why not put it earlier in the set?
 
10:56 PM
Because partly I arrange problems according to what they use in the section, DogAteMy. Doubly graded, as it were :P
 
Any particular places you intend to visit, @Ted?
 
You'll find out if you ever work on my book(s). :P
Australia/New Zealand/Hawaii (not sure when), @Lord, and definitely a trip to Europe soon, perhaps this fall.
 
Sounds great!
 
@TedShifrin Thanks.
 
Will you be visiting the lowly Netherlands, @Ted?
 
10:58 PM
Or the highly Upperlands
 
I actually would seriously like to meet some of the chat denizens (so that makes Paris, Germany, and Netherlands). I also have friends in England and/or southern France, depending on where they are.
 
@user1618033 nah, busy with other things
 
I haven't been to the Netherlands since I was 7, @Lord, so I'd like to go back for a few days.
 
@TedShifrin Thalys/ICE international are pretty well-suited for these journeys.
 
What's dat?
 
10:59 PM
International trains @Ted.
 

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