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5:00 PM
@TimB Killing bullies is just as bad as committing suicide, you end a young life before they have a chance to improve themselves
 
@TimB sometimes considering that someone is bullying you is not as clear cut as all that
 
@TimB But again...are hurt feeling worth someone's life? No...the answer is no.
 
plus, these shooters rarely go in looking to kill just a single person
a lot of them have a whole list of people they perceive to have wronged them
and that thought, that they've been wronged, is many times not logical
 
Side note: I feel this topic is going too far
 
that person may, through their own actions, have caused themselves to be alienated from society
 
5:01 PM
Generally they're crazy people. But apparantly giving guns to crazy people is fine if they're american crazy people :)
 
@TimB lol, Crazy americans :P
@PavelJanicek side note: probably. But wasn't this fun? :P
 
I didn't really mean the shooting bullies comment. Was just encouraging debate a bit.
 
My definition of "fun" seems to be incompatible with yours definition :)
 
My anti-gun stance should be fairly clear from previous discussions I've been in
 
I try to use this method when dealing with other humans who happen to be assholes or bullys or whatever: I have no idea what this person's life is like. I do not know what they are dealing with. I combine that knowledge with a saying I have on a shirt with the picture of the Dhalai Lama: Kill em' with kindness
If they remain assholes...I just ignore them...
 
5:03 PM
Behaving kindly to your bullies is something they do not expect
Especially if you smile
 
It can actually be really fun to watch their confused response...
 
@PavelJanicek I was joking. It was a lively conversation, which I enjoy, but no, it wasn't fun
 
Was there another shooting?
 
@Samuel No, but Tim is making threatening remarks, we should keep an eye on him
 
@Samuel no, this conversation evolved from the monolithic culture question, lol
 
5:05 PM
killing a persons reputation because you don't like their opinion on something is just as wrong as gunning someone down.
 
@AndreiROM You can consider the debate as "fun". I tend to not be offended by the internet, Y'know
 
@AndreiROM He's a Brit, he doesn't have a gun, he has a knife.
 
@PavelJanicek it's my Canadian side kicking in ;-)
 
Even worse: He has cup of tea with ... milk!!!
 
@PavelJanicek disgusting.
 
5:06 PM
@Samuel I think Tim's new nickname should be "shanky"
 
@Samuel but only a folding one.
 
Am I a Brit then? Cause I drink Earl Grey with milk and hate guns.
 
@James seconded.
 
I realised that about my wife just after wedding. And I was like: I should have known before marriage that my wife enjoys tea with milk. That is game changer
 
Crap. I might start liking weird food next.
@PavelJanicek Yeah, my wife got me into it.
 
5:07 PM
@TimB ...errr shanky, I love you brits but I gotta say your cuisine is kinda gnarly.
 
But have you tried milk in your tea? Because it's a game changer.
 
We have cuisine? mostly we just steal everyone else's food and add chips
 
@Samuel Will never happen in my case. I might share house, kids and bed, but not tea with milk
 
It's like adding butter to toast.
 
I'm American and I usually put milk in my tea. I also put it in my coffee.
 
5:08 PM
Butter on toast isn't a thing everywhere?
 
@James It is.
I think.
 
I like my toasts both ways, with slight preference to unbuttered toast, because I hate getting up and bringing me a butter
 
@AndyD273 in coffee it's fine. In tea? no hope for humanity.
OK. I am going to make a cup of tea. And add milk. Just to see what all the fuss is about
 
I generally don't add butter (or varients) to toast ... it's extra calories that doesn't actually improve taste or similar
 
@AndreiROM It just changes the flavor profile a little. I'm ok without milk too, but it's not bad with it
 
5:13 PM
I've been trying to drink tea recently, it tastes like water until I add milk, then it tastes like milk, neither option helps
 
@DaaaahWhoosh You may be doing something wrong
 
If I'm not back in 15 minutes it means I spontaneously combusted
because of milk.
yes. that's right.
 
Will be constantly checking of news
 
@AndyD273 Probably, we have a Keurig at work, I don't think it actually makes real beverages
 
"Romanian exploded after drinking tea with milkL
"Cause of fire was adding milk to tea, chief fireman says"
 
5:15 PM
Try adding butter to coffee. It's amazing.
 
Maybe shanky can give a class on the proper British way to make a cup of tea
 
With some coconut oil.
 
@Samuel You're not wrong
 
"New EU legislation bans adding milk to tea. Britain leaves EU immediately"
 
Actually, I'll amend that.
Try adding butter to X. It's amazing.
 
5:16 PM
haven't tried coconut oil yet though
 
Adding butter to a food is one of cooking advice which I am actually using
and juice from half a lemon
 
@PavelJanicek Paula Dean approves
 
two secret ingrediences which make <strike>almost</strike> everything better
meh, chat formatting failed me
Butter and juice from half a lemon make almost everything better
 
Blacksmithing and metal work needs at least 12 more people and 29 more questions to reach 10 upvotes! any more takers?
 
I know one real blacksmith. But I doubt he speaks English
 
5:21 PM
@bowlturner give me a link and I'll do some voting
 
@bowlturner I could ask a question. It's something that I'd be interested in trying some day
if I ever get time..
 
48
Blacksmith and Metal work

Proposed Q&A site for people interested in the art of black smithing. Other metal workers such as jewelers and welders are welcome too. Any questions dealing with working metal encouraged.

Currently in definition.

 
@AndyD273 It works the other way
not me
I will link to it to read wiki:
@CalebWoodman I sometimes ask: Whats wrong with this idea?
I will post you my recent example
18
Q: Effects of "tax your vote" political system

Pavel JanicekI know that there was question about political system based on your wealth. This is little variation of it: What if your amount of votes was waged according to what you pay to the system? Rules: If you turn legal age, you are allowed to vote (and be elected) No matter what you do, you have al...

^^There I asked what is wrong with my idea
 
@bowlturner Hmm, looks like my question is a dupe :)
 
reading it now
 
5:31 PM
the problem with suspend-disbelief is that that is (or at least should be) the default position
so we don't need a tag to specify it
gottta go now anyway
 
me too
 
@AndyD273 To me, that's wrong. I think question should be structured so that there is criteria provided for selecting a best answer - the way you put it makes it so that "opinion based" questions are okay
 
Ha! That APeNiS message got flagged...
 
@AndyD273 well you could always sign up to show your support of the proposal!
 
@CalebWoodman meta.worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/2407/… read that. I already dealt with pretty much exactly what you're complaining about in a meta question 6 months ago.
 
5:38 PM
@CalebWoodman If someone edits something out and you keep editing it back in, you're likely to get your post locked. Try starting a meta discussion instead, or coming to chat.
 
Also, I can't think of a single question that would use "suspend-disbelief" as a tag properly, which would also not be 100% opinion based (thus closable) - if a question is allowed to suspend disbelief, then all answers must also rely on suspending disbelief to some extent in order to answer said question, meaning ANYTHING is possible; too broad + opinion based (since all answers are valid because you're suspending disbelief)
 
@PavelJanicek turns out I only had a mild seizure
 
@AndreiROM It's good right?
@AndreiROM Hopefully you didn't use non-fat milk.
 
@Samuel honestly, I'm not a fan :(
@Samuel now it just tastes like weak coffee (to me)
 
@CalebWoodman by posting the linked meta question and getting community consensus... how else?
 
5:41 PM
@CalebWoodman I think the best thing you can do is clearly state in the question that "this is the premise, and I'm not asking about its believability"
 
but I will try coconut oil / butter in my coffee when i get home
 
And note that even if you do put that, some people will still tell you your idea is not possible/flawed and try to rip it apart
there's nothing you can do about that even if the suspend disbelief tag is on there.
 
@Aify You can always downvote
 
@DaaaahWhoosh I'm lost, what do you mean?
 
@CalebWoodman The problem I see with that is you're then asking an XY problem. You're saying here's the deal, X, and this is the kind of solution I need, Y. But often, a better solution can be found by slightly fixing X
 
5:43 PM
Samuel understands
Vote for samuel ;)
 
Let us be clear: the word 'penis' is not offensive.
8
 
@ArtOfCode I am a Gree.
 
@ArtOfCode i don't want to know
 
@Aify Downvote the answers that tear up the question, as they do not answer the question
 
Hey @ArtOfCode!
 
5:44 PM
Would the flagger please stop flagging it. I have my suspicions who it is, and the Worldbuilding mods can see it for certain.
 
@CalebWoodman Yes, if it makes it better.
 
@KitZ.Fox Hey there :)
 
@DaaaahWhoosh ah, I'll leave that to the OP if he doesn't like those. I like seeing answers that tear up questions, I usually upvote those.
@CalebWoodman Absolutely
 
@Aify They technically don't answer the question, so I think they're better off as comments
 
@ArtOfCode I was thinking that it reminded me of this woman I know, who taught her son that he should call his penis his 'dink' because 'penis' was a filthy word. rolls eyes
 
5:45 PM
@DaaaahWhoosh So every answer except the 3 that actually answer my question about rotational sea movement should be downvoted because they tell me it's "not possible"?
 
@CalebWoodman You should gladly accept what people have to say about the X part, we're outside the box, we're usually in a better position to see potential problems than you who are inside the box.
 
@CalebWoodman what's the hand wave thing supposed to be
 
@Aify If you asked people to not tell you it was impossible, then yes
 
@CalebWoodman then you can go and downvote those, I found those answers very informative - I learned lots from that question.
 
@KitZ.Fox I mean if you really think that, fine, OK, but... 'dink'? What even...
 
5:46 PM
ripping?
I don't understand the slang of kids nowadays, damn.
 
mjr
@ArtOfCode the word 'penis' is definitely offensive and i am flagging all occurrences
 
@ArtOfCode I know, right? Anyway. Just felt like sharing.
 
@Aify Harking.
 
mjr
uh oh i said it too. flagging myself
 
@Aify Or Harping.
 
5:47 PM
@mjr I do hope you're joking...
 
Ah, I get it now, thanks @Samuel
 
Are we flagging penises?
 
You're not ok. Please don't. You'll bring a whole host of mods and 10kers down on your heads.
 
This is general chat, we can talk about anything we want
 
Take that as you will.
 
5:48 PM
I think we're abusing the flagging system...
 
uhm .. yea. lol
 
@CalebWoodman developing a magic system has its own flaws, and as long as you properly provide the constraints and rules to work with then there won't be any ripping apart of the question
 
@Aify There are a whole lot of caveats to that.
 
I think @CalebWoodman got kicked.
 
@Aify except by those of us who really enjoy doing so
 
5:49 PM
PSA: Don't abuse flags. You'll make a whole lot of people very unhappy, and you'll get yourself removed from chat.
10
 
If you give us an impossible scenario and ask us to work with it of course we'll rip it apart
 
Ah there they are.
 
woah there
don't go pointing fingers
 
I'm not a mod.
 
anyways, back on topic
 
5:49 PM
Samuel's not a mod.
I did it, but that's irrelevant.
 
Nor a room owner.
 
let's keep it friendly, guys
 
@ArtOfCode Nice
 
The topic of the room.
 
If you give us an impossible scenario but explain WHY it's possible with rules and regulations, then I personally will stick to those rules to provide an answer, given that the rules aren't flawed
 
5:50 PM
Wait, Balloon Whales aren't penises?
3
I thought... oh man, this changes a lot of things.
 
@Samuel I now see that my world view is fundamentally flawed
 
@Aify Do you have an example of what you mean?
 
The problem is you're asking is to allow impossible scenarios without rules and regulations by using a "suspend disbelief" tag. If you had the rules and regulations set in place then you wouldn't need a SB tag either.
Gah, I hate to have to keep using my questions for examples
 
@Aify If I may, I think your trees from space question is an excellent example.
 
16
Q: Sea creature moving via rotational motions

AifySo we all know that the majority of sea creatures use fins that move either from side to side or up and down to propel themselves. But our boats don't do that. Our boats use propellers - a rotational motion not based on sea life at all. That begs the question: how plausible is it for a sea crea...

yes
that one too
3
Q: We finally have a weapon to win the war against the aliens. We don't know how to deploy it

Aify2234, April. Region 932 A.E.D. It's a hot day on Xenaas-891, and the fight isn't going well for our soldiers. "Sarge, our exosuits are going to run out of oxegyn soon! There are 2 class 3 aliens coming in from the west, and a small squad of class 5's. What do you want us to do?" Sarge curses u...

 
5:52 PM
Kind of like in Army of Darkness, where Ash opens the trunk and it has everything he needs in it, and he just shrugs like "hey, that was lucky".
 
I don't care if you don't like that I think you have a flawed basis
 
@CalebWoodman Take it to meta, if you're so concerned.
Meta is the ultimate arbiter.
 
from that point on, you can ignore what i'm saying, or use it to improve your question
so i'll tell you about your flawed basis anyways
 
For such questions I'll try to give an "in X" solution, but will always include why X is flawed.
 
Can someone drop a link to the question in question?
 
5:53 PM
Sometimes the answer only makes sense if you include what was supposed to be in the comment
@ArtOfCode I don't think there is one
 
oh
 
You can feel free to ignore it
But most users wont, and will upvote the answers you don't like
And because your question is fundamentally flawed, and you didn't provide rules/regulations, your question will probably be dv'd/closed/not upvoted
Oh man, I really want to vote close that question
 
Woah.
 
Woah there
I saw that - What bias are you referring to and who are the "unkowledgable" @CalebWoodman
 
Take 5, dude. Calm down a little, come back more rational, and we can discuss.
@Aify he's taking 5, so give it a few :)
 
5:57 PM
Oh hey, I found @KitZ.Fox. Thanks flagger!
 
I missed it.
 
@GnomeSlice Hey. Lolwhut?
You know where I hang.
 
@ArtOfCode great, then I can type uninterrupted ;)
 
@Samuel meh, don't worry
 
@KitZ.Fox Must have forgot.
 
5:57 PM
@KitZ.Fox I'm guessing the Overlook?
 
@Aify I suggest removing the quote
 
aye
 
How you been? I was listening to Pretty Lights a few weeks back and thought of you. Something I was going to tell you, but I forgot now.
 
But thanks for letting me know
 
Now that you've seen it I can remove it :)
 
5:58 PM
@ArtOfCode Yes, and EL&U.
 
@KitZ.Fox Must not have been terribly important then. Doing well I guess, considering I still work at a grocery store
Ha
 
The comment "how do 2D and 3D beings even interact" from bowl on that question is exactly what we want to see on open ended questions like that, isn't it?
 
@GnomeSlice Hey, it's something.
 
Besides, that question is 100% Idea generation
 
Yeah, it's an important point to the question.
 
5:59 PM
@GnomeSlice Are you still looking around, or just figuring things out?
 
100% Close worthy
 
@KitZ.Fox Latter
@Aify How do 2D and 3D being interact?
I read a book a long time ago about 3D and 4D beings interacting
 
I don't know, it's not my question
 
Well. You put pen on paper and ...
brain hurts
 
Also they're 2D, just give them a cubic mile and they can fill it with infinite 2D planes.
 
6:00 PM
@GnomeSlice that does sort of make sense
I mean time travellers can interact with us normal people
 
er
The Boy Who Reversed Himself (1986) is a science fiction novel by William Sleator. The novel deals with an exploration into other dimensions, and provides a journey into the world beyond our own. == Plot summary == A high school girl named Laura grows suspicious when a report of hers appears in mirror writing, and Omar, the weird boy next door, makes it go back to normal. Furthermore, he seems to be parting his hair on a different side than usual. He first refuses to explain what's going on, but after she repeatedly coaxes him, he reveals that he has access to the fourth dimension, where ...
 
A time traveler lives in the 3D world
but he travels in the 4th
so that's an example of 3d interacting with 4d, i suppose
 
@KitZ.Fox Really @ArtOfCode, you're offended by the word 'shit'?
 
oh god here come the 10ks
@GnomeSlice No, but a flagger is. It's easier to take it out than to have that argument.
 
Fair enough I guess
 
6:02 PM
Sorry. I wasn't thinking of the context.
 
@Aify It's different for spatial dimensions.
 
And I had to step away for a minute. Thanks, @ArtOfCode.
 
anytime :)
 
@Samuel What would a 4th spacial dimension even look like
 
Yeah, what's happening here, are tags just blood in the water?
 
6:03 PM
I have trouble wrapping my head around 4D
I should've specified, I have trouble wrapping my head around a 4D Spacial dimension
 
4D is 3D with the innate ability to move through time as you please.
 
I already got the time thing down pat
I must've misunderstood "Spacial dimensions" then
@ArtOfCode that's exactly what I was referring to at first.
 
Time is our experience of the projection of 4D onto a 3D space.
Like how a shadow is a 2D projection of 3D space.
 
More than 3 spatial dimensions are so difficult to explain and imagine that they just said "there are 3, end of" and made time the 4th.
 
This is good for higher dimensions - youtu.be/XjsgoXvnStY
Though it's not higher spatial dimensions.
 
6:06 PM
A perspective projection 3D to 2D of stereographic projection 4D to 3D of Schlegel diagram 5D to 4D of the 5-cube (or penteract)
thanks wikipedia
 
Gah, It's too early in the morning for that
 
This one seems ok for higher spatial dimensions - youtu.be/uDaKzQNlMFw
 
Oh wow
that first video you linked is very good
 
@Aify Yeah, it's good, but not exactly in line with the latest thinking.
@Aify Due to the lack of higher spatial dimensions.
 
oh my shieeeet
That second video is elightening
Thank you =D
But shall we get back on topic for a while? Back to our on/off topic discussion
@CalebWoodman To answer the question, yes, that comment is indeed okay.
 
6:22 PM
@Aify I think I just sent everyone on a youtube crawl.
 
@Samuel that's alright, I'll check back here in a couple hours. I'm starving, need to get food :P and exercise...
 
6:34 PM
about the on/off topic discussion, I'd like to ask, does anyone remember the series of questions about Alice fighting monsters?
I'd like to discuss why it is or is not on-topic
 
@DaaaahWhoosh If you open any of Serban's questions they should all be linked from there ;)
 
25
Q: Keeping Secrets in a Thought Reverberating Hall

Serban TanasaMy protagonist, let's call her Alice, must acquire a priceless artifact, located deep inside an ancient temple. If this were a ruin, the exercise would be academic, but the Temple was protected by the ancient and terrible power that built it. The only way in and out of the Innermost Chamber whe...

^ that one goes back at least three more
they're all about a single character overcoming a single obstacle, I like the questions but they seem definitionally character-based
you could say it's about general strategies that anyone can use, but I still don't think it's a very good connection to 'worldbuilding'
but in a way, it's almost a reality-check on creature-design
I don't know, I think both sides of the argument can see how these questions walk the line between on-and-off-topic, between what we want to keep and what we want to discourage
 
I feel they're off-topic. I see the argument for on-topic, but it's weak
If anyone else asked them, they would have been closed
 
yeah, but now that push comes to shove I don't want to vote to close
 
Just like the recent keeping alice happy question.
 
6:46 PM
those were fun and interesting questions, I think I'm beginning to sympathize with the andhyppies
@Samuel oh, well, that one I don't like, that one can crawl into a hole and die
or live a long and happy life, somewhere else
but yes, I guess we should VTC the old ones too. Despite how enjoyable they were, they're character-based and largely opinion-based
 
@bowlturner I did do that at least
 

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