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Samuel
Samuel
12:01 AM
@DaaaahWhoosh Ahhh
 
Aify
Aify
12:39 AM
Gah, you have GOT to be kidding me, he put balloon whales back into his question facedesk
10
Q: Evolution of giant floating mammals

AndyD273Whales are majestic creatures of the sea, as they glide more gracefully through the water than their size should seemingly allow. What kind of evolutionary path would it take for whales to glide gracefully though the skies? Would it be possible on our planet, or would other conditions need to ex...

mythical-creatures balloon-whales
Even in that question
the top answer doesn't use Whales
The question title mentions mammals in general (it could be elephants, rhinos or whatnot)
the only mention of the whales itself is in the body of the question, and none of the answers - of what use is this tag?
 
Samuel
Samuel
@Aify Was it ever gone? I don't see it missing in the revision history.
 
Aify
Aify
Er, it wasn't edited back into this question specifically
i linked it in the wrong order
but the other question using the tag had it edited back in
I linked this other question as an example as to why this tag is useless
 
Samuel
Samuel
Yeah, I saw that. Then was entered for reopening without any editing.
 
Aify
Aify
Also, I think we should guide users towards the use of proper tags
OP's comment in the inflation powered animals question only proves that leaving bad tags around are a bad thing, since the users are considering it a "permissible tag"
 
Samuel
Samuel
Agreed.
 
Aify
Aify
12:47 AM
@Samuel do you know what standard protocol is for getting rid of tags on WB? I know that on SO, usually we'd wait a day or two for some votes and then the users would go and edit the tag out of all the questions, but how many votes should I wait for?
The 2 reopen votes really bugs me on that question. How did it get into reopen queue without being edited?
 
Samuel
Samuel
I don't know the standard procedure. But if you convince Andy to remove it then it should be done and removed from temptation.
@Aify You can vote to reopen at any time.
I'm not sure how often that can happen though.
Hopefully if it fails the reopen then it can't be nominated again. At least for a while.
Though, I'm not sure how many votes are against reopening right now.
Anyhoo, I've got to beat some traffic. Cheers.
 
Aify
Aify
@AndyD273 Please permit me to remove the balloon whales tag from your question. I'll put in flight and creature design to replace them.

@Samuel last I checked, there were 2 leave closed votes.
@AndyD273 According to Vincent (past mod vincent) on my meta post for burninating the balloon whales tag, "It was chosen as the chat tag specifically so that no one would ever use it, because it's so specific. "
which again only supports my point that nobody should use this tag and we should get rid of it
 
 
3 hours later…
AndyD273
AndyD273
3:33 AM
@Aify I replaced the tags myself. It was fun, but I'm ok with it going away now that I got to use it.
 
Worldbuilding Meta
Worldbuilding Meta
3:53 AM
0
Q: Case Study: Monica Cellio

Monica CellioPart of Case study series. (Whoops -- just noticed I missed my assigned date. Sorry.) In space, do "shipping lanes" make sense? About worldbuilding? Yes, it's about travel patterns and thus, indirectly, "layout" of points of interest in space. Risking off-topic? I think it's on-topic, though...

discussion on-topic
 
 
4 hours later…
Worldbuilding Meta
Worldbuilding Meta
7:42 AM
0
Q: Scope clarification discussions

bilbo_pingouinDifferent subjects are being discussed for a clarification or a re-definition of the scope of the site. We want to have clear lines to separate the questions that are accepted on worldbuilding from those that aren't. However, due to different people starting different approaches, it can be confu...

discussion
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
8:18 AM
@TimB (yeah one needs to scroll a bit to find that line) techniques for naming might be on-topic, though one should note that there are a few of those on writers. But I think the "Name for ..." is a risk factor because it is only on-topic if the thing actually exist. And is related to WB, IMO. If it is a creation of the author, a question like that is opinion-based and open-ended.
though, it might be alright on chat :)
 
 
2 hours later…
ArtOfCode
ArtOfCode
10:00 AM
@MonicaCellio What kind of thing are you thinking of when you say science-based?
 
 
4 hours later…
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
1:54 PM
hey guys. Do you have reduced interface when answering question on the WB site ?
On Workplace, for example, I have toolbar with "add link", "bold" and all that other good stuff
but on WB I can't make the window bigger, I have no toolbar, etc. I also don't get a preview of my text before posting.
it makes writing longer answers very difficult.
is this because the site is only now graduating, or is something wrong with my account?
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
When I write an answer, I have the B I (link) etc at the top. I don't know what you mean with reduced interface...?
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
i have no toolbar whatsoever
I just see a rectangle in which I can type, that's it (with a post button)
compare this with my Workplace interface:
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
@AndreiROM I can get the toolbar on my end, maybe you need to refresh something
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
@DaaaahWhoosh it's been like this for months, on all my devices
at this point I think it's account related
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
huh... could be
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
2:09 PM
just checked to be sure - exact same thing on IE
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
I have the lower one... everywhere
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
furthermore, when I'm not logged in i see the toolbar, BUT, I can't use it (it's greyed out)
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
maybe someone on the SE dev team doesn't like you
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
that's a call for meta.stackexchange.com
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
apparently, yea
sigh
I'll have to ask for their help, I guess
so annoying
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
2:11 PM
1
Q: Missing toolbar and not getting any preview of posted answer

LarsTechI am not getting any preview information of what I write in a question box (like right now) nor when I try to post an answer. Also, there is no toolbar and no code window resize slider bar either. It's happening on Chrome, FireFox, and Internet Explorer, and on different machines here at work. ...

bug
but there's no answer...
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
followed his suggestion and checked the console. A script is indeed failing to load
mathjax-editing.en.js
sounds relevant, eh? lol
Uncaught ReferenceError: MathJax is not defined
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
well yeah, that does sound important
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
le sigh
I guess I'll just figure this out later
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
it's still strange that you're only getting it on Worldbuilding though
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
i mean .. I am a developer and all that
yup. It's not a firewall issue
(at least I don't think, based on the fact that Workplace is working fine)
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
2:16 PM
I noticed that SE has some times issues with https...?
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
do you use that one script for rendering math stuff in chat?
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
in other news, I'm getting some pretty vocal dissenters on my gorilla infantry post: worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/a/36733/15059
people are really stuck on some details
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
Otherwise, you don't have something like requestpolicy add-ons?
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
"why would you use gorillas infantry if you need custom everything?" says my outraged commentator. Uhm .. the OP wants gorilla infantry. Ask him.
@bilbo_pingouin seeing how I don't know what that is ...
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
@AndreiROM it's an add-on that blocks cross-sites requests (with white list)
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
2:19 PM
@bilbo_pingouin there's nothing of that nature installed that I'm aware of
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
but if you don't know it, then you probably don't. :D
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
but our network filtering is pretty wonky. Our boss, who set the firewall up, didn't really understand it
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
It's an add-on that you can hardly fail to notice... especially when you end up on websites where all their CSS is located on another domain... ;-)
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
he just set it up with default settings and allowed certain sites through as the need arose
sometimes i have to do my work research on my phone. So yea
it was a 3 days process to be able to download add-ons for Notepad++
I feel fortunate to be on this chat :)
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
all that for that... ;-)
I remember some years ago doing some internship... that it took me 3 days to... have access to the web from my computer!
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
2:29 PM
@bilbo_pingouin lol. Poor bastard
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
that was in 2004... I do hope that company policy changed since then...
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
my first couple of days at this job, I didn't have a computer. Apparently the person in charge of ordering it didn't know I turned in my old one when I stopped being an intern
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
I went to costco with my then boss to buy me a computer
I had to provide my own software
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
D:
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
Visual Studio, Microsoft Office, SQL Server .. everything
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
2:32 PM
O.O
you had to buy those yourself?
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
the guy tried to tell me - on the way to costco - that it would be an unpaid internship
that's after signing a contract with the school that he would pay me $14./hour
he ended up paying me $12
while reporting that he paid me $14
but I only found that out later
@bilbo_pingouin I didn't buy them, I just used the express versions
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
wow... sounds like a great job
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
@DaaaahWhoosh first co-op, I was desperate for experience, couldn't be picky.
and the job itself was hilarious too]
me, a 4th semester student, implementing a full scale ordering system, online
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
that's a place from which you'd want to run away ASAP...
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
I wouldn't have considered working there full time, that's for sure
but I made better money than at my part time job before that
and I actually got the system running
which looked amazing on my resume going forward
which landed me a second co-op with a huge, international company
so it all worked out
and, funny enough, that guy (my old boss) ended up calling me like .. 3 years later
all that time my system had been sitting on a VM server, never used
and they didn't know how to use the VM :)
and they wanted me to come in and show them
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
2:37 PM
free of charge... ? ;)
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
I asked: "How much for my time?". Never bothered me again
also, he had forgotten his password for the system
so yea, LOL
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
what is incredible is that the company kept existing after 3 years... ^^"
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
@bilbo_pingouin that was the idea, lol. Did I mention that my co-op review from them was only so-so ?
@bilbo_pingouin they were good at what they did, which is custom HVAC solutions
but their computer systems were in the stone age
they didn't even know how to install printer drivers
someone's kid would come in and set it up
so yea, I guess it is amazing that they are still around.
 
James
James
3:04 PM
Morning all
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
@James In all future cases where you say that and I am in the room, imagine me responding
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
Happy time zone, as Monica says...
 
James
James
@DaaaahWhoosh Noted
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
has anyone ever looked on Skeptics SE? I've been finding it strangely interesting
 
Tim B
Tim B
@DaaaahWhoosh MathJax is only enabled on specific stack exchange sites
worldbuilding being one of them
try physics and you'll see the same thing most likely
@DaaaahWhoosh Yep, even asked a question there :)
61
Q: Have Islamic prayers been introduced into Ontario public schools while Christian ones have been removed?

Tim BRecently I saw one of those chain letters circulating that made a number of lurid claims that looked suspect for me. Here's the first such claim: Islamic prayers have now been introduced into Toronto and other public schools in Ontario, and, yes, in Ottawa too while the Lord's Prayer was remo...

religion education islam christianity canada
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
3:19 PM
also asked a question there... but much less popular ;)
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
@TimB it's a little more complicated than that answer makes it out to be
there was a great article written by a Muslim female reporter for The Toronto Sun
it was about a school in Toronto that has a large Muslim student body
during certain parts of the year these students would leave class to go pray at the Mosque. Many of them would not return to class, even though they still had some periods left, or would be very disruptive, as they would trickle in a few at a time
some very "Active" parents in the community asked the school administration to allow prayer at the school itself
they gave the go-ahead, and the lunch room was, for certain periods of the day, converted to a prayer room
 
Tim B
Tim B
well the answer was specifically about the original claim, which was sort of true but with very misleading rhetoric to the point of being a lie
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
@TimB You're right
just to finish: volunteers (mothers) would come in and set up the cafeteria. An iman would come in and preach to the students, who would be separated by gender, the girls with their heads covered, and any girls undergoing menstruation barred from attending. Some concern was raised over the fact that no one knew what the iman was telling the students. Futhermore, the reporter herself witnessed a young girl who wanted to sit with her brother, but was removed by one of the mothers
the point of the article was this: are we allowing them their religious freedom, while sacrificing the principles of our own culture and society?
(gender segregation in a public school, etc.)
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
yeah, it gets interesting when religious laws are directly opposed to the laws of the state, but I think gender segregation in this case is mostly the religion's problem
 
Tim B
Tim B
Yep, there's a lot of hard questions about how much people should expect to integrate vs respecting their differences etc
but in general forcing people is the wrong way to change their minds. They need to want to change and if they see you as the enemy they're not going to do that
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
3:32 PM
it is a large debate, and one that we are not yet ready to solve. However in this special case, students were dropping out of school, to face the same segregation. So, I'd say that in this case, at least they don't miss school.
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
I just wish people would stop teaching religion to their kids. Let it be a thing for adults, then people won't grow to resent it so quickly
 
Tim B
Tim B
to a certain extent the best thing you can do is promote integration and friendship in small ways and wait. Before everyone started stirring up "us vs them" integration was happening one small step at a time
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
@DaaaahWhoosh look around parenting.SE. There are a few questions with that regard... ;-)
 
Tim B
Tim B
the thing is...if kids weren't taught religion early very few would take it up as adults
it does happen, but it's far rarer.
and all the religions know that, whether consciously or unconsciously
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
@TimB That's not my problem, that's God's problem. I, for one, feel way more inclined towards religion now that I know that the vast majority of it is made up
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
3:35 PM
honestly, if you are yourself believer, it's hard to educate your children in an a-religious view
 
Tim B
Tim B
well I'm an atheist, my mum is vaguely religious, her mother was the daughter of a preacher
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
religions forge a lot of views you have on the world, that you'd have to force yourself to show a "neutral" way for your kids
 
Tim B
Tim B
so we've gone from Great Grandad preacher to athiest in 4 generations
and that's a far more likely transition than trying to convince people all at once
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
a simple example of what I mean is that when facing death... the typical abrahimic believers would probably start talking about paradise. It's anyway conforting for a kid.
 
Tim B
Tim B
which could be a large part of why cultures all over the world have a similar concept
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
3:38 PM
How can they just keep to "facts", like we don't know, but the body decays, etc. if themselves are really convinced there is a paradise?
@TimB buddhists?
 
Tim B
Tim B
they have an afterlife of sorts. Very few cultures have "you just end"
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
yes, but their afterlife conflicts with the afterlife of abrahimic religions
 
Tim B
Tim B
even as an atheist I wouldn't say "mummy's rotting in the ground". I'd say "mummy lives on in all of us, and especially in you. We all have her memories and the things she left behind, and you are partly her"
Or words to that effect. Fortunately it's a conversation I've never had to have
@bilbo_pingouin I didn't say they were consistent - I said they all (or at least most) have some concept that can be used to comfort those left behind
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
well I did/do... and we used the typical sky metaphor... although, we never mentioned any god or paradise or any of that... I am afraid 3 or 4 is too early to discuss philosophy...
well it came from my wife, and I did not feel like actively going against that.
 
Tim B
Tim B
Fair enough
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
3:45 PM
children often face death at an early age: great grand-parents, neighbours, pets, etc. and they notice the absence... typically they are in a why phase, and they look to their parents for answers
which they can comprehend... or at least feel they do
they go on living in all of us, is probably too abstract
but I might be wrong, I only have my experience to go by ;-)
on that, time to go home :)
 
Tim B
Tim B
o/
 
ArtOfCode
ArtOfCode
\o
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
4:02 PM
\o/
 
James
James
4:12 PM
Have you three been practicing? That was well choreographed.
 
ArtOfCode
ArtOfCode
Mexican wave, go!
\o/
 
Tim B
Tim B
\o/
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
|o/
 
James
James
I don't know how to make a sombrero with keyboard characters.
 
Tim B
Tim B
-^- ?
underscores not working :( think it's trying to underline things if I put 2
ahh italic
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
4:18 PM
,-,-^-,-,
 
James
James
stupid italics
 
Tim B
Tim B
@James I had the same problem. here, have a spider ///\\oo//\\\
 
James
James
ooooh spooky.
 
Tim B
Tim B
I like the rose actually ,-'-,-'-{@ think that one's quite clever
 
James
James
(>'')> <--- Kirby.
...tim you may not be old enough to know kirby...
 
Tim B
Tim B
4:20 PM
or too old
or from the wrong country
 
James
James
or blind...
 
Tim B
Tim B
I'm the right age actually, never was into nintendo though
 
James
James
man those were fun games...I may have to see if I still have them in a box somewhere...
 
ArtOfCode
ArtOfCode
backslash can escape underscores
 
James
James
you missed out...no Mario, no Zelda, no Contra, Ogre Battle... I suddenly feel like you were denied an important part of childhood
/sad
 
ArtOfCode
ArtOfCode
4:24 PM
@James I'm old enough to know Kirby, so Tim definitely is
 
James
James
lol.
Wait...how old are you @TimB
 
ArtOfCode
ArtOfCode
Older than me :)
 
James
James
I think I may have crossed wires in my brain and confused you with someone else...
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
HDE is the young one
 
James
James
...thats probably it.
Anyway back to kirby... you wouldn't think a pink blob with clown shoes and dolphin flippers that literally fights by sucking really really hard would make for a good game.
 
ArtOfCode
ArtOfCode
4:26 PM
HDE and I are pretty similar ages. I wonder... @HDE226868, do you know [of] Kirby?
 
Tim B
Tim B
@James 39 :)
or maybe 38
about that anyway
 
ArtOfCode
ArtOfCode
...yup
 
Tim B
Tim B
I don't pay much attention and it changes every year
 
ArtOfCode
ArtOfCode
achievement get: know your age
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
these days, by the time I get used to my age it changes
 
James
James
4:30 PM
honestly once you pass like 25 birthdays are just not that exciting.
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
yeah, these days if I want cake I can just go out and buy it myself. And beer.
not much left to birthdays after that
 
Tim B
Tim B
:)
 
James
James
Beer and cake! Now I know what I am doing for lunch.
2
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
4:53 PM
@CalebWoodman Nah, if it's in a cake it should be something harder. For instance, I always make pancakes with bourbon
 
James
James
I made a tart for my wife for her birthday that had a solid helping of amaretto mixed in...it was awesome.
turns out i can bake.
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@ArtOfCode we've had several astronomy posts (mostly from @HDE226868) that take deeper looks at specific situations like binary stars or Sitnikov orbits etc. Those are popular and we can always use more. And we've had some general-science posts like the one on large scales which were well-received. There's lots of WB-relevant science we haven't touched yet -- topics in biology, climates/habitability, life underground, chemistry, physics of spaceflight, etc (that's off the top of my head).
 
James
James
@MonicaCellio that post on large scales was awesome...possibly my favorite article so far.
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@CalebWoodman that's not me. :-)
@James it did a great job of making the problem accessible to people, I think.
@CalebWoodman no worries. I think I was doing some retagging.
 
James
James
@MonicaCellio Its the first time I ever felt I actually understood what was going on with the topic.
 
Tim B
Tim B
4:58 PM
@CalebWoodman doubled in size but kept the same density? Or is mass the same but over an increased volume?
you'd need to be a lot more specific in your question as to what is and is not doubled
since answers could vary from "we wouldn't even notice" to "everyone dies"
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
@TimB or both
 
Tim B
Tim B
@CalebWoodman You'd need 8 times as much mass to keep the density the same
@DaaaahWhoosh I think we'd notice in the brief interval before death
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
@CalebWoodman Scaled how? Is there acceleration involved?
 
Tim B
Tim B
honestly I don't think it's a good question. If you really wanted to ask it you could but you'd need to be very specific about exactly what has and has not doubled
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
how about photons?
 
ArtOfCode
ArtOfCode
5:12 PM
Effort
 
Tim B
Tim B
room topic changed to Worldbuilders' General Chat: Main chat room for worldbuilding.stackexchange.com [balloon-whales] [bewildered-gods] [reasoned-discussion]
tag proliferation denied :p
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
that reminds me, is there anyone here who was arguing for tea without milk yesterday? I'd like to know your opinion on sugar
 
Tim B
Tim B
I don't drink tea, but some people were shocked at the idea of milk in tea
@CalebWoodman Nah, I'll confuse them with bewildered-gods then convert them to my point of view with reasoned-discussion
 
Samuel
Samuel
Lactase is not sugar. It breaks down the lactose into sugar. Milk has lactose and not lactase.
If it had both it would be digesting itself.
 
ArtOfCode
ArtOfCode
Milk digesting itself... now there's an odd idea.
 
Samuel
Samuel
5:20 PM
But, more to the point, some milk and stevia in black tea is delicious, but too much of a treat for having it very often.
 
ArtOfCode
ArtOfCode
Jump over to the robots room and I can tell you about KarmaBot - she's mine
 
Samuel
Samuel
@ArtOfCode I feel like you just committed a crime.
 
ArtOfCode
ArtOfCode
@Samuel Um?
 
Samuel
Samuel
@ArtOfCode Now there will be a bot asking for balloon-whales.
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@CalebWoodman that would work better than a tag.
 
Samuel
Samuel
5:41 PM
@CalebWoodman Did you vote to reopen it without it being edited?
@CalebWoodman If a mod or the community closed it, then something needs to be done to fix it. It wasn't closed by mistake.
@CalebWoodman Ah, I see you don't actually have the rep to vote to reopen.
 
ArtOfCode
ArtOfCode
Yeah, it's 500 right now
It'll shoot to 3k in hopefully a few days when they give us the design
 
Samuel
Samuel
@CalebWoodman It appears the OP fixed the question, it's as good as and wizard walking through walls or Alice transporting a dream entering bad guy now.
@ArtOfCode Ah, that makes sense.
@CalebWoodman Well, you won't soon.
@CalebWoodman Better get some questions out there to get that score up!
@CalebWoodman But back to reopening an unedited question. Clearly there was a problem with it, voting to reopen with the same problem will simply lead to it remaining closed, wasting reviewers' time, and possibly delaying the edited question from being reopened.
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
6:03 PM
if you vote to reopen and then the question is edited, would the question come up again in the review queue? Or could everyone look at it, reject the reopen, and never see the edit?
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
7:00 PM
I just had tea without milk, it's way better this way. Almost bearable, or at least something I could get used to. I'm wondering if it's just the type of tea though...
 
Serban Tanasa
Serban Tanasa
who would pollute good wholesome milk with tea?
 
James
James
@TimB What're you removing my topics for!?
 
Serban Tanasa
Serban Tanasa
7:15 PM
@James what's going on?
 
AndreiROM
AndreiROM
@SerbanTanasa tried it yesterday. Disgusting. Making a nice, pure mug of black tea at the moment. Bliss.
 
Tim B
Tim B
7:37 PM
@James I removed a topic? I was doing some retagging earlier but not specifically removing any topics.
@CalebWoodman the too broad one? It just needed to be more specific to be fine.
 
James
James
@TimB In chat!
those were my magical biscuit tools.
@SerbanTanasa Tim removed my magical biscuit tools from chat topics :)
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
7:56 PM
@James It needed to be done, it wasn't safe
someone could saw their fingers off
 
bowlturner
bowlturner
anyone know how to use Perforce? All I want is to get a working copy of the project in my working directory
use revert. Don't just wipe out the local directory.
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
sorry, bowl', I know about perforce, but I don't know it... heard it's great, but that's not helping you right now
 
bowlturner
bowlturner
I liked git. Not liking Perforce.
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
I like git. And I use it...
My boss insists that perforce is better
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
8:12 PM
Perforce sounds cooler
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
but as he was equally familiar with both, and I was only with git, we settled on that one
well there is a basic difference... one is open-source and free... the other isn't
 
bowlturner
bowlturner
It doesn't help that this project is so big that it actually takes minutes to load and build and even locks up VS needing task manager to kill it.
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
no, that never helps...
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@DaaaahWhoosh with a biscuit joiner? I suppose, but that sounds like a freak accident. Now if you were talking circular saws... those things are dangerous; keep 'em away from me. :-)
 
bowlturner
bowlturner
@MonicaCellio actually it could be done, but it would be a deliberate and viscous act...
no accidents there.
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
8:23 PM
@bowlturner I used Perforce for years at my last job, but have been using SVN since then and it's driven out some of my memories of specific p4 commands. But -- you have a repository path and you're trying to get a fresh, new copy? Just create a new directory, make a branch spec to map it, and sync -- or am I missing something?
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
All I can say is that one should never read Out, Out before using saws
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@bowlturner right -- you can do it, in the way that you could do that kind of damage with a cordless drill, but it seems like it requires malice aforethought.
 
bowlturner
bowlturner
@MonicaCellio yes, that is the easy way, once you know how it works.
I deleted all the files, I should have reverted them all instead
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@bowlturner you deleted the local files, you mean? In that case, I suspect your problem is that the server doesn't know anything about that. When you do a sync, p4 pushes changes since your last sync. If you've deleted things, it doesn't know so it doesn't refresh. "p4 sync -f" should do the job (but do check the doc first because this is from memroy).
"f" as in "force".
 
bowlturner
bowlturner
yes, that is what I discovered. In future I'll use revert
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
8:59 PM
Revert is what you do if you've locally modified files and then thought better of it.
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
@James, you know that typing [help] is enough to create a link in comments? I just read one of your comment mentioning the help centre, and that is a nice way to have the link for essentially the same effort
 
Tim B
Tim B
perforce is ok, not really any better than SVN though and it costs $
@James Ahh ok, just stamping down on tag inflation before it gets out of hand. Didn't want people trying to ask magic-biscuit-tools questions
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
I think perforce compare more to git than svn from the philosophy of distributed tool... when svn kept the centralized idea of cvs...
 
Tim B
Tim B
dunno, when I used perforce it was centralized
that could be how they set it up though, I was just a developer using the hting
I end up using whatever tool the client already has usually
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
well git and perforce can be used with a server and so on... but they are distributed... meaning you could share between two users without going to the server (and without using patches)
well as I wrote, I never used perforce, but git you can make local commits
and only push whatever you want to the server... you could have plenty of local branches, commits, etc. and only send some cleaned up history to the server
whether you'd want that or not... depends on your project ;)
 
HDE 226868
HDE 226868
9:23 PM
@Samuel Actually, I thought my wizard-walking-through-walls question was kind of crappy, assuming that's what you're referencing.
 
Samuel
Samuel
@HDE226868 Did you think it was on-topic?
 
HDE 226868
HDE 226868
@Samuel I'm not entirely sure.
 
Samuel
Samuel
@HDE226868 Also, it wasn't bad, it was just when you started changing things after a few answers, that was bad :)
 
Monica Cellio
Monica Cellio
@bilbo_pingouin when we used Perforce we had a centralized server (I didn't realize that wasn't required), but we used feature and task branches for what you would do with local commits in git. (Or so I understand; I'm just starting with git now.) So instead of seeing the bazillion checkins in the log for my feature on main, you'd just see the merge of my branch. If you wanted the details, look at the branch.
 
HDE 226868
HDE 226868
@Samuel Yeah, that was annoying on my part. I had done a poor job of thinking it through, and started changing things when answers made me realize what I had missed, which is a terrible way to operate.
 
Samuel
Samuel
9:27 PM
@HDE226868 In any case, I think it's inside the venn circle of being on-topic. And it was good for the site.
 
HDE 226868
HDE 226868
@Samuel Yeah, it turned out to be one of the earlier uber-popular questions.
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
@MonicaCellio well it really depends on how projects are run. Having a centralized system makes it more clear, the latest version is always there. And it's easier to share between many people. For two people? do you really need that? For you only? That's what I like about git. You can do whatever suits you best.
But compared to svn/cvs, if you screwed your last commit, you can still edit the History (that'd be a cool feature to have for a government ;-)) to make it look like the screwing never happened. And when you push it to the centralized server, no one ever needs to know ;-)
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
@TimB I think I disagree with your tag edits on that eusocial question
I don't think biology could be inferred from the original question
 
Worldbuilding Meta
Worldbuilding Meta
1
Q: Tag Question: Physiology

Tim BHow is physiology different from biology should they be synonyms? Physiology: For questions regarding the functioning and activities of living organisms and their parts, including all physical and chemical processes. Biology: For questions about living things. Does not exclude aliens, but addit...

discussion specific-tag
 
Tim B
Tim B
It's talking about pregnancy, gestation, etc. How's that not biology?
If you want to remove it I won't complain but I think it applies
 
DaaaahWhoosh
DaaaahWhoosh
9:43 PM
I saw that as an obstacle, not necessarily the crux of the question
like 'pregnancy is long, can we achieve this result despite that'?
I'm not saying it's not possible you're right, just that I worry it's a bit of a logical leap
 
James
James
@bilbo_pingouin I did not, thanks
 
Tim B
Tim B
"is someone who's an expert in biology going to find that knowledge useful for this question"
that's my rough rule of thumb for tags
and then since you can only have 5 tags obviously you pick the most relevant ones
I don't feel strongly about it in this case though so if you disagree feel free to remove
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
@James [chat] works as well
 
James
James
@bilbo_pingouin I learned something today! Time for a beer.
 
bilbo_pingouin
bilbo_pingouin
a bit late, I'd say... ;)
 
James
James
9:57 PM
@bilbo_pingouin its almost 1600 here...youre totally right
 
Samuel
Samuel
@TimB You downvoted because I put my conclusion first and the details backing it up in the body of the answer?
 
Tim B
Tim B
@Samuel I found the answer misleading. Without reading it carefully it sounds like you're saying it would always remain at 25%
 
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