Game Development - 2015-07-01 (page 3 of 4)

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1:01 PM

No trick to it, no catch... The only difference is the members will be public instead of private by default

Okay, software patents are bad enough, but how the hell can you get away with patenting a programming paradigm?. WTF!

user92578

@MickLH Yeah, that's what I'm doing

@MickLH for this reason I don't use class at all anymore... no point of having default-private variables

well, I do use it in templates

use typename in templates

as short version of "typename"

sometimes

user92578

1:08 PM

I always specify the accessibility in classes, and I only use structs for POD-like stuff

IIRC in templates, class is actually just an alias there for convenience, and typename is the actual keyword

well, that's probably "standard-speak"

in code, it should just be "if keyword == typename || keyword == class"

no aliases or "actual keywords", both are expected to work

@Tyyppi_77 most people do, and it seems a bit silly

1:23 PM

@Wardy It's ironic that you would slander me while I'm gone... about slandering you while you're gone :P

Love you bro, hope my comment doesn't rub you the wrong way

Slandering you? ... how ?

I was trying to be diplomatic about it

saying stuff like "we didn't see eye to eye on a few things"

rather than "that dick said ..."

I thought I was pretty polite

Icy was trying to rub me the wrong way though I think

I like to think of myself as someone who doesn't talk behind someone's back, so I'd consider it slander to say that I do especially using it as an insult to compare to me.

Oh that comment ... the one about how you continued to insult me after I had left ... for half an hour too I checked the times on the messages

Dude that's overkill ... borderline OCD infatuation stuff you got going on there

Ok it might be insulting to you but I was just referring to fact

I want to point out, before I leave, that instead of saying "Sorry for making you uncomfortable", you instead turn to ad hominem and trying to prove that I'm somehow insane.

what is this, "personal attack week" or something?

2

not that I mind... just curious as to how it grew to such proportions

1:32 PM

Jeez this room ... I had a few months off and came back to a grudges ... figured people would appreciate I stepped away from it all but instead they got their OCD in to overdrive.

@snake5 Well you see, there's a long and rich history to it... It all goes back to one day when wardy and I had different design theories for a hypothetical task we were talking about :P

I personally have no grudges at all whatsoever, but I wish I could help wardy see the "other side" of the coin, just like I wish I could help icy see sometimes.

@snake5 And after that everyone got gripes over everything that was said in here

@MickLH I used to think that about you guys and gave up trying

Now I just accept that it's your point of view and i disagree with it often

The thing is though, that part of what I'm trying to explain is that seeing "the other side" does not mean automatically convincing.

@Wardy I saw your networking question that got put on hold

"everyone got gripes over everything that was said in here" Not me. I had gripes other times. ;)

I wanted to respond to it and point out that Anycast is not even required to eliminate the single point of failure

@Wardy If you use a tool like dig you will see that a single DNS name can correspond to several A records

1:36 PM

@Wardy Yeah, I was surprised by that too. Best plan is probably to put people who annoy you on ignore

hey mick you get my link to the Roland Space Echo vid?

that's some clever shit

So even using straight unicast, the client when they ask for "google.com" they get a list of IP addresses

/ignore Angela Merkel

@Almo roland in their analog days was like.. godly

:D

@Almo I think I've heard that one from another video... was rather interesting sound design

seems like a somewhat overlooked aspect of music production these days

slapping pre-canned beats on autotuned vocals is where the money's at, I guess

1:44 PM

user image

2

looks like it might have something to do with windows

as in, the OS

fan art?

it's obviously half-life 3 leaked beta screencaps

windows 10 default background

Morning GDSE!

gm pip

1:47 PM

holy shit they actually made a default background that isn't ugly?

Nice

wtf is this microsoft. why are they acting so strangely.

its kind of sad

@IcyDefiance midlife crisis

its just not windows without this stuff

user image

1:48 PM

at least that one wasn't horrible. win7 was a lot worse.

my first win background...

user image

@IcyDefiance well win 7 had what? all those architecture photos

@Jon it's pretty cool.

@Joe those were included, but this was the default: zdnet.com/i/story/61/44/001841/win7-wallpaper-large.png

was/is

user image

that's the one I used

though it didn't have the text on it

I actually went and screwed with the registry so I could change Win7's default background for the login screen, lol

1:51 PM

Lol

changing it just on the desktop wasn't good enough

@Jon heh, they've really moved up now

I wonder what the other pictures there are like

@IcyDefiance I remember some software to do that stuff and I ended up nuking my first OS install that way

yeah it was real easy to do it without software. IIRC, I just had to change a certain registry key to 1 and then put the background image in the right folder with the right name

user92578

I think I've edited the registry so that the window titles are displayed in white, because the default dark grey is invisible with really dark window border colors which I use

1:57 PM

ooh I should've thought to do that

not so bad on Win8 though, just made the borders dark grey instead of black, and I can still read the text

@Tyyppi_77 doesn't the appearance window allow to change the title color?

user92578

no

@snake5 is this yours man? looks good

@Joe yeah, it's mine; thanks

how did you do your "fake AA"

2:04 PM

by generating a gradient border

@MickLH Yeh I figured that out ... eventually ... I had no Idea DNS could work like that, I thought DNS entries only pointed at a single IP ... crazy neat :)

@snake5 ah so its baked into the textures?

no textures, only vertex colors

I generate a set of points that make a line and use a specific triangulation algorithm to make a line with thickness and gradients at sides

cl.cam.ac.uk/~pes20/cerberus/…

if you're into the details of C

the hardest part is in finding the normal to use for each point (was something like adding normalized directions and dividing by cos(0.5*acos(dot)) or something), everything else is simple

2:11 PM

I really need to get to work... so I made this instead

user image

yes!

@MickLH I want a 4k version of that

lol

lol it's made quick and shitty, and I started from a not-quite-4K image

but here you go: imgur.com/FZw8oDE

@snake5 Something like the signed distance field stuff?

@MartinSojka no, nothing like it

2:16 PM

Ah well, the description sounded similar. Well, if it works for you, it works.

worked for nanovg as well, I think

I have a theory that everything is everything else, if you accept an arbitrarily complex mapping function

not entirely sure how they did it, I just read about the concept and thought I need this also

@MickLH I'm sure it's true, but what do you intend to use this theory for?

@MickLH The theory is nice, but wrong. See also: bijection.

@MartinSojka Rebuttal: Stochastic equations

2:20 PM

@MartinSojka how does that make it wrong? it's just a class of functions

@snake5 I intend to use it if I'm ever in the position you put @MartinSojka into. So that I can say "Actually they are the same" on a technicality. (jk)

WTF

@MickLH oh, heh :D

@MickLH Nah, infinitely countable (aleph-zero) sets are still strictly different from infinitely uncountable (aleph-one) ones.

@MartinSojka But you're not restricted to a given ring, you can construct one from the possible values that the process of interest could take on

2:23 PM

You're all wrong ... the answer is 42 ... I'm just not sure what the question is.

@MickLH I'd like to see how you construct π out of a finite amount of integers. :)

@MartinSojka Why would I be restricted to a finite amount of integers? I don't have to be able to actually solve the system to still employ the technicality in semantics

@MickLH Because when you aren't restricted to a finite amount, you're switching the goal posts; instead of mapping from a countably infinite set (integers) to an uncountably infinite one (real numbers), you're using an uncountably infinite set of countably finite sets (infinite number of integers).

I don't believe I've switched the goal posts, they were put into this ridiculous place by design :P I never claimed it was even remotely feasible at all whatsoever, and even implied that it would be worthless in practice.

Basically, for two "somethings" to be "essentially the same", there needs to be a bijection between those two. We can show that there are sets where no such bijection exists, thus there are "somethings" which aren't "essentially the same".

2:30 PM

There it is

skooled .... i think

lol, not exactly... I never required absolute congruence

Well, "everything is everything else" kinda sounds like you did. :)

MATH ARGH

;)

That's what I meant when I said "There it is"

I mean, there's the reason for our disagreement

user92578

2:33 PM

90% of my tasks start with the word "Add"

user92578

Rest is either "Rework", "Figure" or "Try"

(I only required arbitrary closeness mod anything, because that's how I think of reality)

@Tyyppi_77 right now all of mine are "Add" or "Fix" :/

I've been working on this one feature for a week

user92578

You working on Envio?

@Tyyppi_77 Address, Adduct and Addle?

user92578

2:36 PM

Excactly

@Tyyppi_77 working on another project with friend

user92578

wow, luckily I was not wearing my headphones on that ping :)

lol

user92578

I kinda want to add "tooltips" to the bottom of the screen that tell a little more about the buttons in the main menu

user92578

But I also feel like they can be just really useless

2:39 PM

perhaps add them only if the user "hovers" over a menu item?

hesitation is often a sign of confusion with UX

user92578

You can really only hover on items, I currently don't support mouse at all

user92578

Maybe after a wait time..?

sql throws an error on line 303...there's only 291 lines in the file...

lol

@MartinSojka you know what would be really awesome to me is if you gave me a few leads, specifically any concepts or theories that come to mind when you think of non-linear differential equations involving logs and trig (and/or their inverses)

2:43 PM

@MickLH My first lead usually involves "Please God, let it be solvable with Wolfram Alpha", and the second "Ok, fine ... Which simpler function can I fit to the desired result?"

@MartinSojka lol that first lead, while truly epic, has sadly been exhausted to no fruit

I've basically given up on actually solving this latest one, and instead I've broken it into 4 primary cases which I can stitch together as initial value problems :/

But even with that, it's 4 big fat 5th order messes with radicals inside trig

As an example for my second approach, my "what's the uncompressed density of this planetary body?" calculations looks like this:
this.uncompressedDensity = this.density * 1.488560167 * Math.pow(this.mass, -0.06880048664);

(Density and uncompressed density are in kg/m³, mass is in Yg)

I could determine the actual composition of the planet and solve the equations for how they behave at different temperatures and pressures below the surface (keeping in mind some phase transformation on the way), but I really can't be arsed.

That's encouraging, thanks. I guess I should just fit an approximation, use that to optimize 99% of the way, and then just brute force the last 1% with numerical solutions

This project has been making me uncomfortable, it's a mostly standard application of control theory, except the circuit is built partly with chemistry and so it has been pretty horrible to analyse the transfer function

@Tyyppi_77 yeh that's good too

140 IS really short. But it's good. Been worth the $5.

2:58 PM

was in a recent humble bundle havnet played it yet might have to spin it up

headphones recommended ;)

my headphones SUCK i need some

they need a humble headphone bundle

hahah

if you like open-air (don't block sound) over the ear, I recommend Grado SR series. If you like in-ear bud things, I recommend Etymotic. Neither are cheap though... so you know. :)

I don't know about over the ear sound-blocking ones

those are what i need i think

keep the world and its insignificant goings on, away from my coding thoughts...

I think some other headphone phreaks in the room could recommend you some over the ear sound blocking ones.

3:06 PM

hmm It was JUST payday

naaah... well talk after my wife gets a new job haha

;)

honey were eating Ramen noodles this month, because I GOT NEW HEADPHONES!!

:D

she would cook and serve those headphones

heh

3:13 PM

happy canada day

user image

user92578

guys ill be getting a new phone, any suggestions?

what are you intentions? do you have a laptop?

M9

@Tyyppi_77 iPhone 5s or 6.

i use my phone more as a wifi access point than as a phone

3:16 PM

Obviously. ;)

user92578

im a must-android guy

user92578

I have a laptop, but I won't be using my phone as a wifi access point

user92578

currently I have the xcover 2

user92578

im considering the xcover 3

wait for RIM to make the new android blackberry then

;)

3:18 PM

yeh it'll be revolutionary ... it'll have upside down icons

Blackberry will claim its the next big thing

i have a galaxy s5 its nice a little big

i have an m8 and it is awesome

what's this obsession with phones? :P

its tech

that we code games for

user92578

Basically all I want from my new phone is to have more RAM + disk space than my current one

3:20 PM

theres this new thing called the interweb you can log on from anywhere! woah

it's quite boring tech

@Jon luckily, not me

user92578

some even say that the interwebs are here to stay

can't stand mobile app development, it's like eating nails

i have netting in my swim trunks, its the inner-net

nobody's better off in the end

3:22 PM

you realize everyone has a phone though?

except its the fastest growing most widely adopted computing platform thus far in the history of tech?

@Jon sure, so? everyone has a toothbrush as well

it is an audience man

toothbrush users are an audience too

every person holding a phone could potentially buy my product

user92578

3:23 PM

toothbrush apps!

I don't sell toothpaste

sucks to be you, then :D

@Joe yawn

every person having teeth could potentially buy my product, if it was toothpaste or toothbrush

imagine how many people that is

it's like... 6 billion or something

what point are you even arguing now?

you are basically re-inforcing what I said

just that it's quite irrelevant at that scale

yes, everyone has things, that doesn't put anyone even one bit closer to getting them interested in the product, hence the yawn

I don't like phones for gaming or anything, but when someone is like "what phone should I buy?" coming back with "phones are stupid and you shouldn't be obsessed with them" isn't really appropriate

3:27 PM

where did I say "phones are stupid"?

^ THERE you just did!

hahaha

lol

whoops :O

user92578

OWNED

3:29 PM

caught me :O

rekt, pwnz, etc.

Jon with the meta joke from hell

user92578

"don't edit this to the show with me saying "I killed him"!"

@Almo Hell, is the nickname for the elephant in the room

anyway, just poking to see if the obsession with phones has some truly interesting reason behind it or just general hype

@Tyyppi_77 lol u mad bro?

user92578

3:32 PM

haha

I dont think its hype and I think you might even be dismissing it too easily

owning a toothbrush doesnt make it easier to buy toothpaste, but everyone here has a phone in their possession and they are seconds away from purchasing just about anything from anywhere its kind of insane actually

I was pretty impressed with smartphones when they showed up for cheap.. I had always wanted a pocket PC with mobile internet access

@Joe what else could it be, and is "too easily" equal to "after observing the evolution and store trends for a few years"?

I'm with Joe. "Hype" implies phones will disappear because they were a fad. The only thing that will dislodge them is a better replacement for the ubiquitous connectedness.

user4704

BrainPals.

3:35 PM

@Almo phones won't disappear, but the "next best thing" will surely change

@snake5 if your looking at the same data I am, I think we drawing different conclusions, but thats fine

this would not mean phones were hype

today it's galaxy 5 or whatever - tomorrow it's galaxy 6 or whatever

my adventures in not serializing auto-properties are not going well

I think I'll put you back on ignore. It keeps me sane.

user4704

[field: NonSerialized]

user4704

3:35 PM

:D

works for fields, not auto-properties

public int AnotherInt { get; set; }

@Joe probably not, as I look at general trends, not my own projects

user4704

[NonSerialized] then :P

I tried

            MemberInfo[] members = FormatterServices.GetSerializableMembers(type);
            List<MemberInfo> filteredMembers = new List<MemberInfo>();
            foreach (MemberInfo info in members)
            {
                if (info.MemberType == MemberTypes.Field)
                {
                    filteredMembers.Add(info);
                }
            }
            SerializableMembers.Add(type, filteredMembers.ToArray());
            return SerializableMembers[type];

user4704

(it depends on what the serializer actually looks for and respects, not all of them respect all the attributes equally)

3:36 PM

But the compiler-generated backing variable is a field, and it shows up anyway.

statistically, average Steam game earns a lot of money and average mobile game gets developers into debt

Attribute 'NonSerialized' is not valid on this declaration type. It is only valid on 'field' declarations.

user4704

Might not be remembering it correctly :P

Can we have a word "autoperties" ?

@snake5 those stores are two entirely different things

imagine if steam let anyone publish anything

user4704

3:37 PM

so, you're saying the backing field shows up in the GetSerializableMembers list?

those numbers would be vastly different

yes it does

user4704

And you don't want it to?

correct

@Joe appstore doesn't let it either

3:38 PM

I don't want the autoproperties serialized

app store locks you out for not meeting the rules

autoperties*

they dont require user interest to publish an app

if it's a property returning a backing variable declared by the user, those can have NonSerialized on them.

but ones that just say name { get; set; } show up

<AnotherInt>k_backingVariable

if i comply to the HIG and TOS i can publish a moon calendar (HACF reference) but that doesnt mean anyone is going to buy it

3:38 PM

@Joe and that probably sucks

is listed as a field in SerializableMembers

user4704

[field:nonserialized] works (I've done it before), but I've never used GetSerializableMembers so I suspect that doesn't respect it in the same way

steam puts my app for review and if no one wants to buy it... they dont publish it

but NonSerialized won't compile

@Joe exactly, so there's not much point sitting in an oversaturated market waiting for some luck

3:39 PM

when I do

        [NonSerialized]
        public int AnotherInt { get; set; }

but your comparing the sucess of the two like they are an even playing field

that won't compile

user4704

right, because it's only valid on fields

@snake5 and your right though it is MUCH more saturated

user4704

The "[field:...]" bit means "apply this attribute to the backing field."

user4704

3:40 PM

But look: referencesource.microsoft.com/#mscorlib/system/runtime/…

ok I'll try that.

doesn't work

@Joe both sell games to people, with different techniques - one of them works, another one doesn't

says "field isn't appropriate"

I'm comparing at a level that doesn't require them to be equal, I'm comparing how they work

anyway, brb, must go

        [property:NonSerialized]
        public int AnotherInt { get; set; }

3:41 PM

you said one is better because of these statistics

won't compile.

I proved those statistics are imcomparable... well finish this later :D

user4704

Huh, apparently this changed in 3.0, or i only ever used it on events.

user4704

msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/b3787ac0(v=vs.90).aspx

user4704

Looks like you are going to have to not implement the thing as an auto-property or not use GetSerializableMembers and do the extraction yourself

user4704

3:46 PM

(looking at the old code I have on this machine, it's true I never used field:nonserialized on anything but events)

@JoshPetrie Is there a way to make C# treat every field as nullable by default, and use the ? symbol in the inverse way?

user4704

No.

argh. I have tons of classes that someone else wrote with tons of autoproperties

but I think you're right

user4704

A type is nullable based on it's type, not it's use as a field of another type.

user4704

@Almo In that case custom reflection over the types to determine the serializable nature of each property is probably the better option

3:48 PM

How would I tell if it's an autopropertie?

There's a "compilergenerated" attribute on the backing var for it

maybe look for that?

user4704

Look for... yeah

I'll try that thanks for your help

user4704

might be on the field or the get/set method

user4704

probably checking for it on both the get/set is most reliable

I found it in the debugger on the backing field

@josh I think I got it

            MemberInfo[] members = FormatterServices.GetSerializableMembers(type);
            List<MemberInfo> filteredMembers = new List<MemberInfo>();
            foreach (MemberInfo info in members)
            {
                if (!Attribute.IsDefined(info, typeof(CompilerGeneratedAttribute)))
                {
                    filteredMembers.Add(info);
                }
            }

4:01 PM

i think i thunk

i.imgur.com/ObVdbd1.gifv

BATTLEBOTS, hahahaha

awesome sneak attack

@Joe they're not incomparable if you're a game developer that wants to make money with games

sorry I won that discussion before my debate opponent "Used Retreat" :)))

there's nothing to win or lose :P

except your dignity

4:07 PM

man i got a trophy and everything you missed it

it was awesome, there was cake

aww

I like cakes

I think @Almo painted a portrait of me atop mount everest even

but to some extent sure... they are two stores to sell games but they are so different in approach and rules i dont think there is a flat way to say "one is better than the other"

that was all the point i was trying to make

yeah, but one does make more money for its developers than the other

sure, it's harder to get in, but when you do, it also means that you will earn money

also, one has users that are willing to pay and for other you have to cheat them in every allowed way to get their money

Allison Road - Prototype Gameplay

wow looks nice

4:22 PM

apparently a VR game

holy crap creepy whispering

looks like UE

scary

probably going to watch a walkthrough, I find horror games too disturbing to focus :P

5:08 PM

@Jon hey man still not got that email from you

yeah i haven't forgotten

it is canada day

oh yeha

i'm at work today.

moved the day off to friday

so what is going to be involved?

i don't know how to do iap or anything

but I can possibly test it, i haven't tested it on ios yet

hmm looks tricky

docs.unity3d.com/Manual/iphone-Downloadable-Content.html

need a native plugin for IAP

u3dxt.com/docs/storekit

looks like that would work

5:28 PM

ya..

or we could just do the same, free / paid

way less work

I'm cool with free / paid.

lol im reading a tech book and the author is comparing speed of RAM to other things... "Imagine getting data from RAM is equivalent to the weight of a cat... from the hard disk a whale. Getting things from the network is like 100 whales"

lol weird analogy but good

hahahah

every time I get to the "my language is nearly ready to be implemented!" stage, something happens and I have to change something

sigh

bbl way later'

5:39 PM

:)

Vincent Williams

is the libgdx ai extension compatible with ios?

no clue sorry

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Transcript for

Jul '151

Game Development

Game development and other polite discussion. Game development...

game-design game-industry rubber-ducks

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