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12:00 AM
@Caleb No worries, I read it as "have not" somehow
12:30 AM
@Caleb I believe that was m_myers he is a mod on Stack Overflow
2 hours later…
2:09 AM
@dancek Did anyone else read far enough to see rpeg pick a fight with Xcaliber_2276 (another atheist)?
"You do seem a little inflammatory and aggressive. Perhaps they had a point?"
yeah, that exchange was amusing
6 hours later…
7:47 AM
dobro yutro
I don't know how to save this question from being closed:
Q: Is incest a sin?

hippietrailIf we all descended from one man and one woman then it's quite apparent that a third generation was not possible without the sexual union of close relatives. Does the bible (or other Christian source) specifically address incest? Is it a sin? If it is not a sin then does it follow that it is no...

if i leave just the first part "is incest a sin?" it might still be closed as "general reference" aka "look it up in the bible" as per my question about brain/mind/consciousness
comments suggest that it is really multiple questions "posing" as one question
is there a way to ask it all as one question? i could ask two opposing questions from different angles but surely one would be closed as a duplicate ex:
If incest is a sin then how did we get a third generation after Adam and Eve and Cain and Able?
if incest is not a sin given that it had to be practiced for there to be a third generation after cain and able then why is it no longer practiced?
should i really split my current question up that way? would it really be better?
the alternative is to split it up this way q1) is incest a sin? q2) given that incest is a sin should our earliest ancestors from the garden of eden not produced a third generation?
if i do that then the some of the very good answers there will be left dangling and as i said even the first part could get closed as "look it up in the bible"
8:17 AM
I tend to think it's alright to have all of those things in the question because however it gets answered they all play off of each other.
I don't know who's VTC'ing it but maybe we can get them in here and discuss it.
i do the same kind of questioning on all other SE sites when i think it's the best way to pose a question
i don't know how long i'll be around. i'm travelling the world and the sun is out so i'll have to go exploring
but the chat room is persistent and if people actually use this one i think it's better for resolving these kinds of issues than meta discussions. though i've also thought about a meta discussion on this kind of question structure generally
Ya sometimes for specific ones chatting it over helps. If we have a problem with questions of that general structure it's good to air them out in meta. I'm not sure we've settled on how to handle thing kind yet.
Usually people do ask too many tangental things, but in this particular question all those issues have to be explained together somehow.
@a_hardin another ironic one IMO was trolling a question by another atheist and, of course, being deleted by a nonbeliever SE employee
Of course atheists at large are similar to Christians at large: the points on which they agree are few.
8:32 AM
yes it's a very young SE, i've been in a few now
i thought of them as linear questions rather than tangential though in this case the linearity split to cover both possible outcomes of the first question
@dancek Ya that's pretty classic. Sad really, I feel for the guys girlfriend, but he doesn't have much of an outlook on life.
what was deleted in that question?
@Caleb but if you start feeling sad for people with narrow outlooks on life, you'll need to feel sad for a lot of us Christians.
i thought that was a good question though apparently i didn't vote for it
@dancek Oh but I do.
8:35 AM
damn empathy
@hippietrail It's not the question we're talking about but one of the troll answers (now deleted).
ah. in this case what do you mean by troll answers?
@Caleb I don't really feel sad if someone doesn't know anything else than Christianity, unless they go trolling around in their ignorance. I don't feel sad for atheists because their POV is narrow, but because they don't know Christ.
@dancek It wasn't really the narrowness I was referring to so much as the hopelessness of it. Even amongst his own over on r/Atheism he's giving off mostly negative vibes.
no casting stones now
8:54 AM
Diagnosing people's problems != casting stones.
I wish there was something we could do to help him.
@Caleb I agree, but it's very rare to be able to help over the internet...
@dancek Ya I've been waiting for a defense of that here: christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/1348/…
I think we all have "neighbors" IRL, and we have a much better chance with them. Often just being a friend goes a long way.
@dancek I wouldn't be living in a mostly Alevi neighborhood in a mostly Islamic country if I didn't believe that just being a friend goes a long way and that it doesn't work the same over the wires :)
@Caleb amen.
9:04 AM
I've been in a lot of religious debate chatrooms, and I've only known one person to change their mind. We all like to hold onto what we think is true.
@CiscoIPPhone yeah
I think online it's possible to convince someone else that your POV isn't stupid
but that's just removing obstacles of conversion, still there needs to be a reason to convert
interesting. i'd never heard of alevi before!
changing our mind is only done easily for decisions we made easily
@CiscoIPPhone Very true. I've known dozens and dozens but the principle you state is still very true.
9:51 AM
Q: Is breaking copyright law a sin?

Max Gontar Making illegal copies of films, music, books and games Downloading and seeding torrents Using someone else's program code without license Plagiarism (which is like breaking 9th Commandment) Are the things listed above sinful? Does it depend on whether we're making money from it?

I thought "Is X a sin?" was off topic?
I'm not sure we settled that issue. meta.christianity.stackexchange.com/q/245/30
But I see since I visited that thread more weight has come down on the side of them being off topic.
Perhaps we need a question about civil law / subject to authorities to close this as a duplicate of.
Honestly I'm not sure how I feel about them. They aren't the highest quality questions for sure and not really expert material, but many of them do present unique angles that warrant answers.
10:06 AM
@Caleb I think expanding this to include all civil law would be appropriate.
@Caleb agreed. I think one about civil law in general would be a solid contribution and allow others to be duped to it.
@waxeagle Feel free to edit if you think it can be improved, the idea is for a general question that would cover dups so I'm not attached to the specifics :)
Q: Are Christians bound to the laws of their country?

CalebClearly not all governments are based on Christian principles. Should Christians be bound to obey the civil of their respective countries (states, cities, whatever) even if they disagree with the basis for the laws? Please answer general about how Christians fit into civil law and worldly author...

i don't think it will be the best idea to exclude people who want to understand the nature of sin since the obvious way is to ask is X a sin
@hippietrail Of course that might be an obvious way to ask, the point is how do we re-direct them to the more general principals that govern such things in a way that's constructive. Answering every nit-picky "is x a sin" that comes along is going to get old really fast, there could be thousands.
Christianity at it's core is NOT a system of do's and don'ts.
These questions are kind of peripheral to the real issues and the number of questions and approach to dealing with them should reflect that.
10:23 AM
@hippietrail I'm with Caleb, basically it turns Christianity into a series of "dos and donts" rather than a system of mercy and grace. Also different denominations will define sin differently and different people are convicted about different things. Some things like civil laws the Bible is quite clear on, Other things like alcohol or tobacco aren't very clear (to some...)
@waxeagle: Hillarious comment from shog (ref). Also just five more votes, 1 down and 4 up and you've got your reversal badge :)
Alright guys what DO we do with this? Half of me wants to answer because there are interesting things to say, but it really seems like a duplicate of the question he referenced in the first place AND it the bit at the end is ... I should shut up now.
Close as dup? Edit out the parting shot as belonging to a separate question? Close as NC? Ignore it and answer the first bit?
10:59 AM
Never-mind, I'm answering :)
11:11 AM
There I've said my peace.
11:36 AM
@Caleb There's a couple of typos in there but I couldn't edit because an edit requires at least 6 changes. Got -> God Note -> Not.
i would've thought a better way to handle lots of sin questions would be to build up an faq of them by closing new ones as duplicates of previous ones, same goes for "nitpicky" ones being dupes of previous broader ones
the duplicate close reason always feels like a friendlier close reason to me than off-topic which is bound to put people off who are seeking clarity
@Caleb lol yeah. @Shog9 can be a trip sometimes.
@CiscoIPPhone Thanks. I fixed that and a few grammar problems.
"getting old" seems like a very lazy reason by the way. a successful SE site will be very very busy and there is no onus on anybody to pay attention to every single question. i'm sure there are many topics that got old quick a long time ago that are still on topic and still asked on SO
@hippietrail That's exactly what I just tried to do by asking a new question to have a broader category to close the specific one as a duplicate of.
11:46 AM
@Caleb rather eloquently by the way.
personally i don't like retroative duplicates but hey "this question is copying a question i am about to ask" (-:
@hippietrail I think its better to fold poor older questions into better broader newer questions.
indeed but the misfit with the SE term for it makes for an ugly combination
counterintuitive too
@hippietrail You're right that wasn't great verbiage on my part. But still -- see some of the discussions on meta about the home-page being our advertisement and the fact that we are trying to attract expert level questions and answers, not cater to the easy/frequent ones. Since that's not a core issue we don't want to promote them too much and they come in in higher volume than ther things.
anyway that is nitpicking to some degree
if you really only want expert questions it might have been a good idea to include expert or such in the site name as has been done before on SE or maybe something like Christian Theology
11:49 AM
@caleb "to do by asking a new question to have a broader category to close the specific one as a duplicate of."...is retroactive duplicates a good idea?
@hippietrail I agree it's kinda bad form but the OP doesn't agree his question is subset of a general issue so I decided he would take better to that than having his question edited out from under him to be just the general issue.
of course doing that will greatly reduce your new question count which an SE needs to prove its existence is worthy. so far the site is doing very well for a new one
@hippietrail That's not a bad idea. I know Database Administrators debated on just being called "Databases"
i definitely agree with your way of handling i have to say in case i was unclear
@hippietrail At almost 40 questions a day I think our problem is focus and quality, not volume :)
11:52 AM
SE has a problem with the long tail in its site topics much more than its question topics on any particular site
@DTest Hey DTest we were just discussion whether that was cosher of me.
find me an SE with focus and quality! that's what voting is for. the raw material comes in. the community focuses on whatever and hopefully quality results (though not always)
I've seen retroactive dups done on several other sites to quite good affect as part of cleanup efforts, but I maybe could have encouraged the OP to ask the other question instead.
i think it was perfectly kosher and halal and fish on fridays
me too. i think it gets more ok as sites get really really busy and the administration and bureaucracy has too much work to do
the sites i've witness the birth of fluctuate between being too open and too much like SE cops. when they're the latter some contributors get offended naturally
finding a "nice" way like you are doing rather than rubber stamping peoples efforts with "reject" is best practice definitely for a new site if not for all sites
hmm, being fairly new to the SE community the practice seems a bit odd. I'll leave it to the more experienced in SE, but it might be better to leave the old question alone, and only close new questions on the topic as duplicate
12:04 PM
i'm not trying to tell you guys what to do. just relate what i've seen on other sites. and of course the clashing in the wording
i think it would be a worse vibe for the christianity site to scare people away than for japanese usage or whatever
@hippietrail I think that's a good point.
@hippietrail this is true, but we also have to be a lot more careful about what we accept so that we don't turn into a nasty subjective free for all. We are still trying to be a site for experts (as are all SE sites).
you can always focus on the "try" part rather than get too harsh on the "be" part. look at SuperUser
avoiding nastiness is key
i think stating that the sites aims to be for expert questions on responses to low hanging questions is a good start
@hippietrail right, there are relatively few true "experts" around here at this point, most of us are just hackers who also happen to be theology hobbyists/Christians...
on travel we are trying to give people feedback to improve their answers are some early bad experience downvoting and closing too quickly (you may be doing that i haven't looked closely)
but if you really really want to focus on truly expert questions i would seriously suggest including "theology" in the name of the site
12:12 PM
I know this is a bit of a first world problem, but I hate when I wake up and I've already hit the rep cap.
@hippietrail part of the problem here is volume, we have had a 30-40 q/day volume from the very beginning here, a lot of them are garbage, some of them rescueable, others not. I think we have tried to encourage OPs to edit when its salvageable
@waxeagle any idea how to get those experts? Pastors, Seminary Students, Seminary Professors?
the best way to show you don't want broad questions is to not look like a broad site
hehe first world problem. i like to say "why must life be so difficult" to those. people's reactions can be funny (-:
@waxeagle: that's good to hear
@hippietrail Have you seen the video? MC Frontalot is awesome (for about two weeks and then gets annoying).
there seems to be no easy way to attract experts other than nurture a good site and let google bring them. unless there are dual programmer/theology experts who will mosey across (-:
12:14 PM
@CRoss great question. I might be able to talk to some Covenant College Bible Profs :)
@hippietrail we blew that already :)
consider the site to be in a long incubation period. google some questions and you will see the site is already visible
@waxeagle I know a couple of people at RTS Charlotte, but they always seem so busy
one of the benefits of closing as duplicates is google will bring people for all kinds of different wordings of the same question
@waxeagle I think you're right about that.
@CRoss yeah I'm thinking Covenant profs will be the same way...
@hippietrail yes, I think Jeff has a blog about some duplication being a good thing
12:16 PM
also plug good questions and good answers with the facebook and other links
keyword being some
@hippietrail yeah, honestly other than getting a well defined scope and more hits we are doing all right in the other key areas...
of course the scope thing is kind of a big deal
one thing. i find the name "stackexchange" in the title is already "too nerdy" for most people i meet for them to even want to check out the japanese or travel links i send )-:
@hippietrail lol. thats why they went with "exchange" instead of "overflow" :P. But its still too nerdy
let the scope evolve. or maybe a voice will reveal the best wording for it (-;
@hippietrail :P
12:18 PM
ok my battery is flat and the decrepit bulgarian communist monuments won't photograph themselves so i better go (-:
@hippietrail lol, enjoy Bulgaria :)
have you hit Hungary yet?
i think i love bulgaria. didn't expect it to be so great. i was in hungary on my two previous eurotrips. this time not. i'm heading first to albania then across to the republic of georgia
@hippietrail Cool. I've only been to Eastern Europe once, spent 2 days in Budapest and about 2 weeks in Romania...A lot of fun, but Hungarian is nearly impossible to understand. Romanian is much easier when you already know a romance language...
@waxeagle see christianity.stackexchange.com/revisions/2265/1, I didn't like how the citation was depicted at all
@hippietrail Totally off topic and just general curiosity...why do you do your smileys "backwards" like that? (I quote "backwards" simply because there's obviously nothing particularly wrong with doing them that way, I'm just used to seeing them the other way around)
12:25 PM
@AdamRobinson one of the super mods does it too
@dancek not a fan either. maybe we can specify its locusts?
@AdamRobinson that's the left-handed way d:
@dancek: I'm left handed :P
@waxeagle I added verses 1-4 already, it's much better now
@AdamRobinson it prevents repetetive motion injuries from turning your head one direction all the time...
12:26 PM
@dancek Do you know why he rolled back your revision?
@hippietrail I've shot a bunch of them, how many pictures to decrepit communist monuments need?
@a_hardin He explained in a comment...
@Caleb explains worlds problems with evil between loads of laundry who is this guy, Chuck Norris?
12:42 PM
dang, i got distracted and now my morning is gone :(
@DTest there's like 3 more hours left :)
@waxeagle Chuck Norris doesn't have to do laundry; filth is afraid of his clothes.
@waxeagle yeah, but those 3 hours have to be spent at work :P
@AdamRobinson good point.
Related question. Is Chuck Norris in Hebrew 'Locust' ?
12:44 PM
@DTest lol
didn't mean to start in on Mr. Norris jokes
@waxeagle it can't be helped sometimes
@DTest: No; the ancient Hebrews were afraid to speak the name of Chuck Norris, so there is no known translation.
1:00 PM
@DTest I know the feeling, only it's my afternoon that is slipping has slipped away.
For having the most down-voted answer on the site this guy asks solid questions.
@Caleb vondj?
@waxeagle Yes.
@caleb agreed. and nice answer btw. The point about human assumptions that life should be comfortable is wrong was what I was trying to express, but couldn't
@Caleb they have been solid, he seems like someone interested in engaging and thinking, rather than just trolling
1:34 PM
wrt the copyright question I'd personally like to handle it separate from other laws since many copyright laws are exceptionally stupid
thankfully I have almost no need to break copyright law, but it's really an area I'm worried about my conscience (because piracy doesn't seem wrong at all to me)
actually, I'll have to take some of that back. I do find GPL violations and such very wrong
@dancek but the thing is, stupid or not, they are civil laws.
its like the speed limit, its a law, you're breaking the law and sinning, even if its dumb, even if everyone does it, even if you don't get caught, its still the law.
@waxeagle I do know that. I just said what I personally would like to do, no matter if it's rational or right or anything...
@dancek :)
2:16 PM
@waxeagle Perhaps. Quite interesting series of comments actually.
It's a conspiracy to kill my house-work day :)
BTW, DJClayworth has been raising objections to a number of my posts, but I can't really figure out what the core issue is. Any ideas? We don't seem to disagree on doctrine so much as ... I don't know ... how we use QnA format? Wording?
@Caleb very interesting, I see where he is coming from, although unfortunately he has mistaken Christians (and bad ones at that) for Christianity :)
@waxeagle Yes exactly.
@Caleb: I think that the subject matter of Christianity.sx makes it a lot easier for someone to get a negative impression of someone (or an outright grudge) than, say, StackOverflow or one of the more technical sites.
I do think his latest follow up question is worth answering (and will put in my 2c when I have time to write) but it's not THE follow up question.
Somebody needs to ask The Hard Question™.
@AdamRobinson well its religion, one of the 2 subjects you don't talk about in polite company :)
2:29 PM
@waxeagle Exactly ;)
Or should I say (;
@waxeagle What's the other one? Cause I talk about this one all the time (although not in English very much.)
@Caleb politics :)
its just something people say when all they want to talk about is the weather...
@waxeagle Huh. I'm not fond of the subject myself and avoid it when possible but that's like the least taboo thing ever in this part of the world. That or soccer is what people fill holes in conversation when they can't think of anything else to talk about.
3:10 PM
@Caleb Nobody took the bait eh?
Q: What is the verdict on an unjust judge?

CalebI can't believe nobody has yet asked what I consider to be the hardest question* in the world, The Canonical Question of Christianity! As Christians we believe that God is good. We trumpet his justice, rightness, holiness, and so on and so forth. We say that he is the true standard of what goodn...

4:09 PM
@Caleb I can't believe that this doesn't have a couple answers by now!
4:21 PM
@Richard I think your comments could be an answer (it doesn't make much sense to me personally but I can see how it's consistent with Christianity)
@CiscoIPPhone I seriously considered it, but I'd feel the strong need to add tons of biblical support. I might get around to it if I can find the energy.
OK, let's see.
4:40 PM
@CiscoIPPhone your killing my shot at a Reversal ;)
OK, there is the non-trivial answer that my comment was based on:
A: What is the verdict on an unjust judge?

RichardAlright, here's the non-trivial answer. The idea is that we are all guilty. It's pretty hard to deny this one: Romans 3:23 (NIV) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God Furthermore, while we are all guilty of sin, the punishment for this sin is death: Romans 6:23a (NIV) ...

5:22 PM
@Caleb I'm around for a few mins if you're still wanting to talk
@Richard man 3/4 answers either miss the point or are just bad. your answer is on point
@waxeagle It is confusing since the question is talking all about judges and such. But it's clearly an analogy. I don't know if others aren't reading closely or what.
@Richard I don't know, I think they see the word "judge" and say "I know how to answer"...
sorry guys my laptop battery died when i was out before and now i have a very shaky connection
@Caleb: bulgaria and yugoslavia seemed to have the most amazing and or spooky communist monuments
@AdamRobinson: my smileys are not backward. all our smileys are sideways in fact if you haven't noticed (-: in fact my smileys are umop apisdn because i'm from down under - due to reasons of symmetry upside down then sideways cannot be distinguished from sideways then backwards (-:
@waxeagle: i'm sometimes fluent in spanish and can finagle the other romance languages but i actively tried to learn romanian and there ain't nothing easy about it at all. should've done turkish instead!
@hippietrail brb, cleaning up my exploded head
5:34 PM
@hippietrail lol, Like I said I was there for 2wks, no actively trying to learn, just picking up words and phrases that sounded like spanish (or at least obviously had latin roots)...
5:50 PM
@AdamRobinson: hope you didn't get too much mind on the keyboard
@waxeagle: acum pot vorbea foarte puțin româneste dar nu este ușor
@hippietrail lol yeah not so much :)
spot the latin root in that basic sentence d-;
@hippietrail este is usually a to be conjugate :)...
on the subject of cleaning up mess i have a question to delete
yep that's a latin one. i can spot four others and the rest are too hard to guess
What is the point of TRiG's last comment on this answer of mine?
A: Why is homosexuality a sin in the Bible?

FlimzyGod desires our greatest happiness. In the area of romantic relationships, He has designed us to be happiest in a man/woman marriage. Homosexuality gets in the way of this. Genesis 2:20-22: 20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; bu...

Is he trolling? Or did he honestly miss my point? Or what?
5:59 PM
@Flimzy I think its "what makes you happy isn't what makes me happy"...
Is that a valid viewpoint (in this context)?
@KronoS Thanks. I haven't (and won't) forget the topic but I'm kind of pre-occupied with some other topics and work stuff here. Thanks for checking though, I'll ping you when I start researching that again.
If it is, his tone still smells slightly trollish
@Flimzy I don't think so...but I agree with your perspective.
I suppose I'll just let that comment go unanswered.
6:02 PM
@Flimzy I agree that the tone is definitely trollish, regardless of the viewpoint.
I think I already addressed that very issue (twice).
My guess is this is what set him off:
> In the area of romantic relationships, He has designed us to be happiest in a man/woman marriage.
I would consider flagging that comment, but it doesn't quite feel trollish enough... and I also hate flagging comments on my own answers, because it feels like censorship.
i only flag offensive comments myself, like when commentors start namecalling
@Flimzy well remember, you don't ultimately make the decision, you just draw attention to a potential problem
@hippietrail I will often flag the first comment when I see 10 or so as "too chatty" just to mods can come clean them up.
if I could flag my own comments in those situations I would, but then I would just delete my own.
6:05 PM
I flagged comment once that contained a URL with the F word in it, and the target page contained many instances of the F word. I don't remember the context... I don't think it was an intended troll, but I figured it was still offensive.
i usually go back and delete my own chatty stuff afterwards and let the system shunt them off to chatrooms when it decides
bah i'm not offended by words just aggression, all depends on context
@Flimzy appropriate here, probably not worth doing anything about anywhere else.
@Richard I don't know what happened there either but I just worked on it a little to try to help clarify what the actual question is.
@hippietrail yeah, but we have to be more sensitive here in general...
@waxeagle Agreed
6:09 PM
@Caleb fixed "God God" -> "God"
@hippietrail You think Turkish was going to be easy? Kolay gelsin ama benim için hiç kolay değildi.
@Caleb: heh no fair unless we speak a related language already d-;
but the sounds of turkish are much easier than romanian which has lots of vowel groups and two different schwa vowels
@Flimzy I think he honestly misses the point. Either way he's adamantly opposed to it. Don't worry about the comments.
It's time to offer some bounties on some of my questions
6:14 PM
@Flimzy seriously, when a top answer mentions "Bruce Almighty" its time for a bounty...
sorry @JonathonByrd :)
@waxeagle Ooops, thanks.
@Caleb sounds good to me
@hippietrail Turkish does have mostly easy sounds and a great rhythm ... and it's phonetic. After that it's all down hill.
@Caleb phonetic is really nice, like really really nice...english <> phonetic...:(
6:18 PM
English has other nice things that many foreigners like, though
Most of my Spanish-speaking friends think English is easier than Spanish, because there are fewer verb conjugations to learn.
Of course when they describe this phenomenon to me in English, they mispronounce half of their words :)
turkish people are also warmer and better teachers than romanians
@Flimzy fair enough :). I will say I'm happy I speak it so I don't have to learn it
every language except english is phonetic, it's not a very useful adjective to describe a language and relating spelling and speaking is a minor factor in language learning.
well probably except chinese and japanese i should add
@Caleb: I really want to accept your answer on my question about the meaning of the word "die" in Genesis... but I feel like it's mostly conjecture and opinion... Could you edit it with some more scripture or other references?
@Caleb: No hurry... I see that you're busy with other things... just know that there's +15 rep waiting for you when you complete that :)
@Flimzy I will eventually. It's on my "to edit" list, currently at #3 :) It's come up several other places that not very many people have even considered that definition so it's going to take a really good write up to make a convincing answer out of it.
6:23 PM
@Caleb: It's essentially the answer I was looking for... but I agree, without some good references, nobody's going to buy it. :)
doh i can't delete my brain until tomorrow!
Last comment...trollish?
Q: Is Mary's virginity evidence that sex is always sinful?

El'endia StarmanIt seems that sex is always a sin, as evidenced by the fact that Jesus had to be born of a virgin and not by traditional conception in order to be sinless. Is this true? Any viewpoint is welcome.

Seems a bit trollish.
He may have a valid point, but it's not appropriate as a comment there--it would be better asked as "What is the evidence for Mary's virginity at the time of Jesus' conception?"
I think I will ask that question now
@Flimzy Go right ahead! :)
@ElendiaStarman Yeah, it seems a bit trollish. It's not helping the question and just promoting arguments.
6:31 PM
i think you're making too much of whether questions are trollish. in my opinion unless the questions are rubbish it's best to take them in good faith. then again i think i've seen good faith answers to questions that some may construe as trollish
@hippietrail We're not talking about a question, but a comment.
i've been thinking about the high rep people here re asking editing versions of questions. why not prompt the original asker to reword their question. or edit it just a bit to focus it. otherwise one perspective would be that you are taking their ideas to earn the reputation instead of them
oh sorry i only saw what came up in here. too much stuff in other windows and tabs to open everything
not accusing anybody of actually doing that to be clear just pointing out that people could see it that way and it would be better avoided
@hippietrail: I usually/always do prompt the OP to change their question. It seems like 80% of the time they choose not to, even when their question is closed.
@hippietrail: Even so, I still encourage that.
can't click on links with "sex" as a distinct word in the url...
6:38 PM
@waxeagle -_-
I love it when placing a bounty actually earns me net rep... so far I've already gotten +10 for the question I just put a -50 bounty on
i haven't had a lot of luck with bounties so far
@hippietrail I've yet to place one...my questions get answered fairly well typically, and those that don't usually don't have a "great" answer...
i've got a few unanswered ones on other SE sites. i still don't know if i have to apply for a ukraine visa from my home country like for a russian visa
the word "great" is comically overused on SE (-:
This comment bears repeating!
"If you're going to be defending God against the onslaught of accusations from the world then you must use Scripture." -- @JonathonByrd
6:48 PM
@hippietrail Why is your smiley carrying an umbrella? And where is his mouth? (--:P
it's raining and he has thin lips?
@hippietrail LOL ;)
a better question is why in cyberspace do we all tilt our heads 90 degrees to smile? ☺
@hippietrail: You're assuming we don't already tip our heads for some other purpose first
I always type with my head horizontal...
clockwise... counterclockwise... it depends which side you're looking at the clock from
6:54 PM
The side on which the numbers go in a clockwise direction. ;P
Or...the side that you can tell time from.
@Flimzy That's only because your monitor stands are too flimzy to stand up straight.
7:20 PM
slivvz got me thinking result:
Q: Who is Immanuel?

wax eagleIn Issiah 7:13-17 13 Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of humans? Will you try the patience of my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[c] a sign: The virgin[d] will conceive and give birth to a son, and[e] will call him Imma...

I always hang a transparent Arabic clock sideways and look at it through a mirror. Doesn't everyone?
I am not qualified to answer that question; I don't have an Arabic clock. :P
@ElendiaStarman you don't? I'd figure most households would have one
transparent would be far harder to find
@waxeagle Ah, silly me. Arabic numerals...[facepalm]
i found one in a bus stop in rural northern japan. maybe they don't need it.
7:25 PM
Rephrase: I am not qualified to answer that question as I don't have an analogue clock. I'm living in a dorm. :P
@hippietrail: You hang it sideways? Or do you mean you hang it backwards?
@hippietrail: Sideways would just mean it's always off by 3 hours
oh i tilt my head when i look at it
ah, right
What criteria should I use when selecting an answer for this question?
Q: What is Young-Earth Creationism?

FlimzyWhat is Young-Earth Creationism, and the Biblical basis for it?

The first answer appears to answer the question, until reading the comments and find that many of the claims he made seem to be disputed.
Should that be a reason not to accept the answer? And if it is... does that mean I can't accept any answer? heh
(since any/most YEC evidence will have some amount of dispute attached to it)
@Flimzy: Offer a bounty!
I mean...it hasn't been active for 6 days.
A lot of people haven't seen it...
7:30 PM
"Here is my opinion on the Biblical basis:"? That seems like "Here's my opinion of solid evidence". It seems contradictory.
@ElendiaStarman: I just wonder if a bounty will really produce anything much better...
@RiverC's answer has potential... although it's kind of sparse on details.
Is it good practice to start a bunch of bounties at once?
Or will that dilute the attention that the questions get?
@Flimzy I think it WOULD dilute the importance of bounties if there were a bunch of them.
@ElendiaStarman I agree, but how many is too many? I think if you get past one full page, you start losing people. (Check Stack Overflow for that example.)
Bounties on SO are silly, IMO
@Flimzy I'm surprised that no answers mention how the genealogy in the Bible is used to get an estimate on the age of the earth
7:43 PM
@CiscoIPPhone: RiverC's answer sort of alludes to that, but doesn't mention it specifically.
@CiscoIPPhone: Feel free to provide your own answer :)
"periods starting in Genesis 1" could mean all time mentioned in the Bible
Or he could mean simply the 6 days... I'm not sure
@DJClayworth Hehe. :)
Q: What is the archaeological evidence for a local flood?

FlimzyWhat, if any, archaeological evidence exists that Noah's flood was localized, and did not cover the entire earth?

Should I re-title this question to "What is the physical evidence for a local flood?"
A: How did the monastic tradition evolve?

RichardThis is a tradition started by the monastic monks of China. The tradition was brought over from Japan when Jesus went there as a child, per the Infancy Gospel of Thomas.

The only question that actually goes into evidence doesn't actually list any archaeological evidence at all.
Yeah,when it comes to "flood evidence" that's really more of a geological test rather than an archaeological test.
7:56 PM
Just what I was about to say
I copied "archaelogical" from the "global flood" question... but you're right, geological makes more sense.
But in both cases, even that may be too specific
s/archaeological/physical/ would cover all those bases, though, no?
Yeah, I like "physical evidence". It just seems to take care of all of that.
But I like to be fairly generic in my wording of questions and fairly specific in my wording of answers.
8:13 PM
@Richard: Chad?
@Caleb Huh?
You following comments? He's been after my question and comments on his answer for a while, now i see he started on you.
Hmmm...his comment on your post disappeared.
His comments make no sense!
Can anyone else make sense of his objections? I really don't understand them.
It almost sounds like he's mad at God and venting... or trolling.
Me either. I'm done replying because it's going in circles.
I didn't think he was trolling at first but it doesn't sound like he's TRYING to get what's being said either. If I'm not communicating clearly somebody say so. Or help me.
Communication is a two-way street and I think the problem is on his end.
8:23 PM
On another topic, Shog9 cracks me up. See comment here, and then the atheist that suggests I ask on atheism.se ... I think my point about that having been closed was lost there.
@Caleb It seems he thinks that people who commit evil acts don't just have to accept guilt and follow jesus, they have to do some sort of penance in reading the bible which makes them eligible for forgiveness...
"Cite where god has chosen to fogive one who does not seek pennance in the bible"
@CiscoIPPhone I missed his edited answer.
But "in the bible" there is connected to "show me" not "seek pennence"
Unless he's REALLY confused.
@Richard I was confused. It was @JonathonByrd not you that he commented on. Sorry.
@Caleb Aah, ok. His other comments really seem to make no sense, though.
Good morning family
@chad "@Jonathon show where god claims to be just. Then show where god has justified wicked people then you can make that claim" – Chad
@JonathonByrd: That should be easy to do.
8:33 PM
@Flimzy I thought that this was common knowledge..
@Flimzy Depends on who you're trying to show I guess.
Thus the question presented by caleb
@JonathonByrd: It might be... It seems obvious to me. But I suppose many people on this site haven't actually read the Bible, and make many unfounded assumptions about it.
Yeah, it's kind of a "gimme the basics" type of question. John 3:16 wouldn't be out of place.
@JonathonByrd I took it as a general assumption too particularly since I came from dealing with vonjd, a humanist that was working with the assumption that if there was a god he must be just. It seemed like a given to me. Apparently not.
8:35 PM
@Caleb That's an interesting point. It makes me think of other gods that aren't just. (I'd have to make one up to give you an example, though.)
Q: Is the God of Christianity a just God?

FlimzyWhat does the Bible say about the justice of God? Is he just?

So @Flimzy so we have any special insiders-only cheers or anything now that pundits is becoming a club?
d'oh... DJClayworth doesn't like my question because it's too 'basic'
Isn't there a FAQ item that suggests asking questions like that?
@Caleb: hehe
@Richard Based on Chad's last comment I don't think justice is the issue, he's not coming at this with the idea that all men are fallen/sinners/wicked. He's assuming God's "justification" only applies to people who have (as @CiscoIPPhone pointed out he said) done their pennence and already become somehow righteous on their own, so God's letting them off the hook isn't injustice at all.
8:51 PM
Wow. I'm glad you can read into that. I'm having an extremely difficult time following his logic.
I'm guessing trying to figure out what the underlying theme is that ties all the comments together. What else makes any sense out of his objections?
My question is getting a lot of votes... both up and down. heh
This is really making my brain hurt.... Do you think he's saying that the question (in bold) and the example text do not go together? It would make sense if he's coming from the stance that you have to do something to be forgiven...
OK, I think I'm starting to see where he's coming from.
At the very least, in my mind, I have accepted that he's not trolling. ;)
Most recently he's contested the idea that God has justified anyone wicked. I haven't seen what he does with Romans 5:6 yet.
@Richard Ya I don't think he is either, that's why I asked in here if anybody had figured him out.
@chad, to answer your question:
A: Is the God of Christianity a just God?

Jonathon ByrdYES Basically what you're asking has been asked throughout history. Job 8:3 NIV Does God pervert justice? Does the Almighty pervert what is right? The Saints defend God Throughout the ages of biblical times, the saints have declared with trumpets the Justice of God. Job 34:12 NIV...

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