If we all descended from one man and one woman then it's quite apparent that a third generation was not possible without the sexual union of close relatives.
Does the bible (or other Christian source) specifically address incest? Is it a sin?
If it is not a sin then does it follow that it is no...
if i leave just the first part "is incest a sin?" it might still be closed as "general reference" aka "look it up in the bible" as per my question about brain/mind/consciousness
comments suggest that it is really multiple questions "posing" as one question
is there a way to ask it all as one question? i could ask two opposing questions from different angles but surely one would be closed as a duplicate ex:
If incest is a sin then how did we get a third generation after Adam and Eve and Cain and Able?
and
if incest is not a sin given that it had to be practiced for there to be a third generation after cain and able then why is it no longer practiced?
should i really split my current question up that way? would it really be better?
the alternative is to split it up this way q1) is incest a sin? q2) given that incest is a sin should our earliest ancestors from the garden of eden not produced a third generation?
if i do that then the some of the very good answers there will be left dangling and as i said even the first part could get closed as "look it up in the bible"
i do the same kind of questioning on all other SE sites when i think it's the best way to pose a question
i don't know how long i'll be around. i'm travelling the world and the sun is out so i'll have to go exploring
but the chat room is persistent and if people actually use this one i think it's better for resolving these kinds of issues than meta discussions. though i've also thought about a meta discussion on this kind of question structure generally
Ya sometimes for specific ones chatting it over helps. If we have a problem with questions of that general structure it's good to air them out in meta. I'm not sure we've settled on how to handle thing kind yet.
Usually people do ask too many tangental things, but in this particular question all those issues have to be explained together somehow.
i thought of them as linear questions rather than tangential though in this case the linearity split to cover both possible outcomes of the first question
@Caleb I don't really feel sad if someone doesn't know anything else than Christianity, unless they go trolling around in their ignorance. I don't feel sad for atheists because their POV is narrow, but because they don't know Christ.
@dancek It wasn't really the narrowness I was referring to so much as the hopelessness of it. Even amongst his own over on r/Atheism he's giving off mostly negative vibes.
@dancek I wouldn't be living in a mostly Alevi neighborhood in a mostly Islamic country if I didn't believe that just being a friend goes a long way and that it doesn't work the same over the wires :)
Making illegal copies of films, music, books and games
Downloading and seeding torrents
Using someone else's program code without license
Plagiarism (which is like breaking 9th Commandment)
Are the things listed above sinful?
Does it depend on whether we're making money from it?
But I see since I visited that thread more weight has come down on the side of them being off topic.
Perhaps we need a question about civil law / subject to authorities to close this as a duplicate of.
Honestly I'm not sure how I feel about them. They aren't the highest quality questions for sure and not really expert material, but many of them do present unique angles that warrant answers.
@waxeagle Feel free to edit if you think it can be improved, the idea is for a general question that would cover dups so I'm not attached to the specifics :)
Clearly not all governments are based on Christian principles. Should Christians be bound to obey the civil of their respective countries (states, cities, whatever) even if they disagree with the basis for the laws?
Please answer general about how Christians fit into civil law and worldly author...
@hippietrail Of course that might be an obvious way to ask, the point is how do we re-direct them to the more general principals that govern such things in a way that's constructive. Answering every nit-picky "is x a sin" that comes along is going to get old really fast, there could be thousands.
Christianity at it's core is NOT a system of do's and don'ts.
These questions are kind of peripheral to the real issues and the number of questions and approach to dealing with them should reflect that.
@hippietrail I'm with Caleb, basically it turns Christianity into a series of "dos and donts" rather than a system of mercy and grace. Also different denominations will define sin differently and different people are convicted about different things. Some things like civil laws the Bible is quite clear on, Other things like alcohol or tobacco aren't very clear (to some...)
@waxeagle: Hillarious comment from shog (ref). Also just five more votes, 1 down and 4 up and you've got your reversal badge :)
Alright guys what DO we do with this? Half of me wants to answer because there are interesting things to say, but it really seems like a duplicate of the question he referenced in the first place AND it the bit at the end is ... I should shut up now.
Close as dup? Edit out the parting shot as belonging to a separate question? Close as NC? Ignore it and answer the first bit?
i would've thought a better way to handle lots of sin questions would be to build up an faq of them by closing new ones as duplicates of previous ones, same goes for "nitpicky" ones being dupes of previous broader ones
the duplicate close reason always feels like a friendlier close reason to me than off-topic which is bound to put people off who are seeking clarity
"getting old" seems like a very lazy reason by the way. a successful SE site will be very very busy and there is no onus on anybody to pay attention to every single question. i'm sure there are many topics that got old quick a long time ago that are still on topic and still asked on SO
@hippietrail You're right that wasn't great verbiage on my part. But still -- see some of the discussions on meta about the home-page being our advertisement and the fact that we are trying to attract expert level questions and answers, not cater to the easy/frequent ones. Since that's not a core issue we don't want to promote them too much and they come in in higher volume than ther things.
if you really only want expert questions it might have been a good idea to include expert or such in the site name as has been done before on SE or maybe something like Christian Theology
@caleb "to do by asking a new question to have a broader category to close the specific one as a duplicate of."...is retroactive duplicates a good idea?
@hippietrail I agree it's kinda bad form but the OP doesn't agree his question is subset of a general issue so I decided he would take better to that than having his question edited out from under him to be just the general issue.
of course doing that will greatly reduce your new question count which an SE needs to prove its existence is worthy. so far the site is doing very well for a new one
find me an SE with focus and quality! that's what voting is for. the raw material comes in. the community focuses on whatever and hopefully quality results (though not always)
I've seen retroactive dups done on several other sites to quite good affect as part of cleanup efforts, but I maybe could have encouraged the OP to ask the other question instead.
i think it was perfectly kosher and halal and fish on fridays
me too. i think it gets more ok as sites get really really busy and the administration and bureaucracy has too much work to do
the sites i've witness the birth of fluctuate between being too open and too much like SE cops. when they're the latter some contributors get offended naturally
finding a "nice" way like you are doing rather than rubber stamping peoples efforts with "reject" is best practice definitely for a new site if not for all sites
hmm, being fairly new to the SE community the practice seems a bit odd. I'll leave it to the more experienced in SE, but it might be better to leave the old question alone, and only close new questions on the topic as duplicate
@hippietrail this is true, but we also have to be a lot more careful about what we accept so that we don't turn into a nasty subjective free for all. We are still trying to be a site for experts (as are all SE sites).
@hippietrail right, there are relatively few true "experts" around here at this point, most of us are just hackers who also happen to be theology hobbyists/Christians...
on travel we are trying to give people feedback to improve their answers are some early bad experience downvoting and closing too quickly (you may be doing that i haven't looked closely)
but if you really really want to focus on truly expert questions i would seriously suggest including "theology" in the name of the site
@hippietrail part of the problem here is volume, we have had a 30-40 q/day volume from the very beginning here, a lot of them are garbage, some of them rescueable, others not. I think we have tried to encourage OPs to edit when its salvageable
there seems to be no easy way to attract experts other than nurture a good site and let google bring them. unless there are dual programmer/theology experts who will mosey across (-:
one thing. i find the name "stackexchange" in the title is already "too nerdy" for most people i meet for them to even want to check out the japanese or travel links i send )-:
i think i love bulgaria. didn't expect it to be so great. i was in hungary on my two previous eurotrips. this time not. i'm heading first to albania then across to the republic of georgia
@hippietrail Cool. I've only been to Eastern Europe once, spent 2 days in Budapest and about 2 weeks in Romania...A lot of fun, but Hungarian is nearly impossible to understand. Romanian is much easier when you already know a romance language...
@hippietrail Totally off topic and just general curiosity...why do you do your smileys "backwards" like that? (I quote "backwards" simply because there's obviously nothing particularly wrong with doing them that way, I'm just used to seeing them the other way around)
@caleb agreed. and nice answer btw. The point about human assumptions that life should be comfortable is wrong was what I was trying to express, but couldn't
wrt the copyright question I'd personally like to handle it separate from other laws since many copyright laws are exceptionally stupid
thankfully I have almost no need to break copyright law, but it's really an area I'm worried about my conscience (because piracy doesn't seem wrong at all to me)
actually, I'll have to take some of that back. I do find GPL violations and such very wrong
@dancek but the thing is, stupid or not, they are civil laws.
its like the speed limit, its a law, you're breaking the law and sinning, even if its dumb, even if everyone does it, even if you don't get caught, its still the law.
@waxeagle Perhaps. Quite interesting series of comments actually.
It's a conspiracy to kill my house-work day :)
BTW, DJClayworth has been raising objections to a number of my posts, but I can't really figure out what the core issue is. Any ideas? We don't seem to disagree on doctrine so much as ... I don't know ... how we use QnA format? Wording?
@Caleb: I think that the subject matter of Christianity.sx makes it a lot easier for someone to get a negative impression of someone (or an outright grudge) than, say, StackOverflow or one of the more technical sites.
@waxeagle Huh. I'm not fond of the subject myself and avoid it when possible but that's like the least taboo thing ever in this part of the world. That or soccer is what people fill holes in conversation when they can't think of anything else to talk about.
I can't believe nobody has yet asked what I consider to be the hardest question* in the world, The Canonical Question of Christianity!
As Christians we believe that God is good. We trumpet his justice, rightness, holiness, and so on and so forth. We say that he is the true standard of what goodn...
@CiscoIPPhone I seriously considered it, but I'd feel the strong need to add tons of biblical support. I might get around to it if I can find the energy.
Alright, here's the non-trivial answer.
The idea is that we are all guilty. It's pretty hard to deny this one:
Romans 3:23 (NIV)
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Furthermore, while we are all guilty of sin, the punishment for this sin is death:
Romans 6:23a (NIV)
...
@waxeagle It is confusing since the question is talking all about judges and such. But it's clearly an analogy. I don't know if others aren't reading closely or what.
sorry guys my laptop battery died when i was out before and now i have a very shaky connection
@Caleb: bulgaria and yugoslavia seemed to have the most amazing and or spooky communist monuments
@AdamRobinson: my smileys are not backward. all our smileys are sideways in fact if you haven't noticed (-: in fact my smileys are umop apisdn because i'm from down under - due to reasons of symmetry upside down then sideways cannot be distinguished from sideways then backwards (-:
@waxeagle: i'm sometimes fluent in spanish and can finagle the other romance languages but i actively tried to learn romanian and there ain't nothing easy about it at all. should've done turkish instead!
@hippietrail lol, Like I said I was there for 2wks, no actively trying to learn, just picking up words and phrases that sounded like spanish (or at least obviously had latin roots)...
God desires our greatest happiness. In the area of romantic relationships, He has designed us to be happiest in a man/woman marriage. Homosexuality gets in the way of this.
Genesis 2:20-22:
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; bu...
Is he trolling? Or did he honestly miss my point? Or what?
@KronoS Thanks. I haven't (and won't) forget the topic but I'm kind of pre-occupied with some other topics and work stuff here. Thanks for checking though, I'll ping you when I start researching that again.
I would consider flagging that comment, but it doesn't quite feel trollish enough... and I also hate flagging comments on my own answers, because it feels like censorship.
I flagged comment once that contained a URL with the F word in it, and the target page contained many instances of the F word. I don't remember the context... I don't think it was an intended troll, but I figured it was still offensive.
every language except english is phonetic, it's not a very useful adjective to describe a language and relating spelling and speaking is a minor factor in language learning.
well probably except chinese and japanese i should add
@Caleb: I really want to accept your answer on my question about the meaning of the word "die" in Genesis... but I feel like it's mostly conjecture and opinion... Could you edit it with some more scripture or other references?
@Caleb: No hurry... I see that you're busy with other things... just know that there's +15 rep waiting for you when you complete that :)
@Flimzy I will eventually. It's on my "to edit" list, currently at #3 :) It's come up several other places that not very many people have even considered that definition so it's going to take a really good write up to make a convincing answer out of it.
It seems that sex is always a sin, as evidenced by the fact that Jesus had to be born of a virgin and not by traditional conception in order to be sinless. Is this true?
Any viewpoint is welcome.
He may have a valid point, but it's not appropriate as a comment there--it would be better asked as "What is the evidence for Mary's virginity at the time of Jesus' conception?"
i think you're making too much of whether questions are trollish. in my opinion unless the questions are rubbish it's best to take them in good faith. then again i think i've seen good faith answers to questions that some may construe as trollish
i've been thinking about the high rep people here re asking editing versions of questions. why not prompt the original asker to reword their question. or edit it just a bit to focus it. otherwise one perspective would be that you are taking their ideas to earn the reputation instead of them
oh sorry i only saw what came up in here. too much stuff in other windows and tabs to open everything
not accusing anybody of actually doing that to be clear just pointing out that people could see it that way and it would be better avoided
@hippietrail: I usually/always do prompt the OP to change their question. It seems like 80% of the time they choose not to, even when their question is closed.
i've got a few unanswered ones on other SE sites. i still don't know if i have to apply for a ukraine visa from my home country like for a russian visa
In Issiah 7:13-17
13 Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of humans? Will you try the patience of my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[c] a sign: The virgin[d] will conceive and give birth to a son, and[e] will call him Imma...
@ElendiaStarman I agree, but how many is too many? I think if you get past one full page, you start losing people. (Check Stack Overflow for that example.)
This is a tradition started by the monastic monks of China. The tradition was brought over from Japan when Jesus went there as a child, per the Infancy Gospel of Thomas.
Me either. I'm done replying because it's going in circles.
I didn't think he was trolling at first but it doesn't sound like he's TRYING to get what's being said either. If I'm not communicating clearly somebody say so. Or help me.
On another topic, Shog9 cracks me up. See comment here, and then the atheist that suggests I ask on atheism.se ... I think my point about that having been closed was lost there.
@Caleb It seems he thinks that people who commit evil acts don't just have to accept guilt and follow jesus, they have to do some sort of penance in reading the bible which makes them eligible for forgiveness...
"Cite where god has chosen to fogive one who does not seek pennance in the bible"
@JonathonByrd: It might be... It seems obvious to me. But I suppose many people on this site haven't actually read the Bible, and make many unfounded assumptions about it.
@JonathonByrd I took it as a general assumption too particularly since I came from dealing with vonjd, a humanist that was working with the assumption that if there was a god he must be just. It seemed like a given to me. Apparently not.
@Richard Based on Chad's last comment I don't think justice is the issue, he's not coming at this with the idea that all men are fallen/sinners/wicked. He's assuming God's "justification" only applies to people who have (as @CiscoIPPhone pointed out he said) done their pennence and already become somehow righteous on their own, so God's letting them off the hook isn't injustice at all.
This is really making my brain hurt.... Do you think he's saying that the question (in bold) and the example text do not go together? It would make sense if he's coming from the stance that you have to do something to be forgiven...
OK, I think I'm starting to see where he's coming from.
At the very least, in my mind, I have accepted that he's not trolling. ;)
YES
Basically what you're asking has been asked throughout history.
Job 8:3 NIV
Does God pervert justice? Does the Almighty pervert what is right?
The Saints defend God
Throughout the ages of biblical times, the saints have declared with trumpets the Justice of God.
Job 34:12 NIV...
If we all descended from one man and one woman then it's quite apparent that a third generation was not possible without the sexual union of close relatives.
Does the bible (or other Christian source) specifically address incest? Is it a sin?
If it is not a sin then does it follow that it is no...
Making illegal copies of films, music, books and games
Downloading and seeding torrents
Using someone else's program code without license
Plagiarism (which is like breaking 9th Commandment)
Are the things listed above sinful?
Does it depend on whether we're making money from it?
Alright, here's the non-trivial answer.
The idea is that we are all guilty. It's pretty hard to deny this one:
Romans 3:23 (NIV)
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Furthermore, while we are all guilty of sin, the punishment for this sin is death:
Romans 6:23a (NIV)
...
God desires our greatest happiness. In the area of romantic relationships, He has designed us to be happiest in a man/woman marriage. Homosexuality gets in the way of this.
Genesis 2:20-22:
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; bu...
It seems that sex is always a sin, as evidenced by the fact that Jesus had to be born of a virgin and not by traditional conception in order to be sinless. Is this true?
Any viewpoint is welcome.
In Issiah 7:13-17
13 Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of humans? Will you try the patience of my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you[c] a sign: The virgin[d] will conceive and give birth to a son, and[e] will call him Imma...
YES
Basically what you're asking has been asked throughout history.
Job 8:3 NIV
Does God pervert justice? Does the Almighty pervert what is right?
The Saints defend God
Throughout the ages of biblical times, the saints have declared with trumpets the Justice of God.
Job 34:12 NIV...
