/dev/chat - 2014-11-05 (page 1 of 2)

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12:00 AM

@terdon sorry. I thought it was the answer :)

@Ramesh No problem, very understandable, I probably would have made the same mistake. But, you know, mod hat on :)

@terdon kernel-headers -> linux-headers

Ah, yes, true. I remember that but no idea when it changed.

@terdon It's been a while, I think.

1:02 AM

Downvotes here please:

2

A: What does "The following packages have been kept back" mean?

Just do sudo apt-get install linux-headers-server linux-image-server linux-server and you will be fine. Doing "apt-get dist-upgrade" will upgrade your OS to a new version which is often what people do not want. p.s. - I know that thread is somewhat old, but this question is asked a lot, so I...

That should be at a negative score

1:18 AM

@terdon, Done. Still 1 more to go to become -ve.

I feel this question is pretty similar to my question here. Any comments?

2:18 AM

When will we start posting "Pay me to see the full answer."

???

haha

This question is answerable and hardly off-topic, unix.stackexchange.com/q/166003, though it is not a good question.

@Ramesh looks like a dup to me

This is a strange place to make this bug report -> bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debhelper/+bug/1371695

@terdon Down to -1. Is that enough?

@FaheemMitha That wasn't a close as off-topic, that it described a problem that seemingly went away

@slm I think he just wanted to know what those files meant.

2:24 AM

@FaheemMitha read through the comments, the OP got a refererence link and seemed satisified

@slm We're not supposed to answer in comments, right?

I'm surprised this one is not a dupe, though.

@FaheemMitha I see it all the time with links to A'ers

There is no question/answer about ttys?

@slm Well, I don't really care. Just commenting.

That off-topic reason is really inaccurate, though. It needs something better for such questions.

I'm not sure if there's an actual policy, but I see a fair amount of ppl putting A'ers in comments

Those are the hammers I have to use for the nails I'm presented with 8-)

@slm I don't think you are supposed to do that in general. I think it means you don't want to bother with a proper answer.

2:27 AM

If someone wants that reopened and has energy to devote to it, it can be reopened.

@slm Sure, just saying it isn't satisfactory.

@FaheemMitha I remember seeing the Debian bug for that....

@slm Nah, I don't care.

@slm Thanks. I voted to close.

@Braiam Ah, do you have a link?

2:28 AM

@FaheemMitha That's the problem w/ the defaults, they only fit 80% of the time

@slm Well, presumably they can be improved. They're not set in stone.

@FaheemMitha Yeah many times ppl don't want to take the time to write up the A, so they shortcut and do a comment.

@FaheemMitha very true. After using them for a time you get brainwashed into thinking in those terms 8-)

@slm Yes. And in such cases, the question is uninteresting. Though I don't actually know much about ttys myself.

Maybe suggest a reason like - "basic (reference) question that can easily be answered by checking standard references?"

451

A: What is the exact difference between a 'terminal', a 'shell', a 'tty' and a 'console'?

A terminal is at the end of an electric wire, a shell is the home of a turtle, tty is a strange abbreviation and a console is a kind of cabinet. Well, etymologically speaking, anyway. In unix terminology, the short answer is that terminal = tty = text input/output environment console = physic...

27

A: How do keyboard input and text output work?

There are several different scenarios; I'll describe the most common ones. The successive macroscopic events are: Input: the key press event is transmitted from the keyboard hardware to the application. Processing: the application decides that because the key A was pressed, it must display the ...

@slm Ah, suggest reopening and closing as a dupe of one of those guys.

That would make more sense, imo.

2:32 AM

@FaheemMitha I think in those scenarios the way I've seen it done is to dup it against something else.

If someone comes across that question by googling, they'll be directed somewhere sensible.

@slm If the question exists on the site, then sure.

you guys spend a lot of time working on this forum

it actually seems like work

shoot, it is work!

@TylerMaginnis What forum?

unix.stackexchange.com?

I didn't want to be too broad with duping

2:33 AM

@TylerMaginnis Oh, this site.

check out @slm making these executive scoping decisions

@slm Meaning?

What is the notification on side asking if the message is a spam?

@TylerMaginnis That's why I didn't close it as a dup 8-)

I closed it as the OP, had a Q and it was resolved in the comments so "went away"

@Ramesh Flag as spam

2:34 AM

@Ramesh actually is invalid

Maybe I'm not understanding what you are asking though.

in the bridge, more than an hour ago...

Yeah, I have received from this user.

is just some kid that went trough the transcript and started flagging stuff

@slm personally I'd dupe it.

though nobody seems to care, so...

2:36 AM

@FaheemMitha sure, I'll switch it, does anyone else have a problem with that?

meh, it doesn't add anything as dupe

@Braiam - if it was a better Q I'd care more, but it's kinda cr@p

Can't dispute the crap bit.

now it's duped w/ a related link to the 2nd keyboard Q&A

my mantra with duplicates is: crap duplicates is still crap that should get deleted

2:40 AM

@TylerMaginnis - we tell ourselves that we work tirelessly here for the betterment of Linux Q&A on the internets.

@Braiam Can't it get deleted if it is a dupe?

@Braiam that's my philosophy too

@slm But we are really just procrastinating.

I have to go read more about cucumber

@FaheemMitha better than facebook or twitter. At least get to learn something here :)

2:41 AM

and my wife is going through my sons backpack from school, and finding all his homework assignments, apparently he's been procrastinating too

@Ramesh True. Plus SE hopefully isn't selling our personal information to the highest bidder. Though who knows?

you asked that personal meta Q that has all our personal info in it, so what else is left?

My site habits? Big mystery, I'm here 95% of the time.

\o/

It is just cool to kind of hang out here and learn things from experts like you :)

Hey, anyone got the time to help with a bash-scripting related question?

That's why I'm here

2:45 AM

So, I won't mind if I spend even 100% of my time here ;)

me neither

@joshumax - what's up?

For some reason this (gist.github.com/joshumax/99bc7a9eddd0580507d5) is giving me troubles

I've annotated what works and what doesn't. It's the strangest thing I've seen with bash

@slm All your personal info? It's all about computers!!!

I'm not that deep 8-)

lol

2:46 AM

@FaheemMitha no, if it's closed as duplicated the scripts would ignore it

@Braiam yeah so my closing it like I did leaves it for a bit but then the janitor scripts will ultimately delete it after a while, now it's here forever.

It's a soft way to delete

@sim any ideas?

@joshumax - need to see Bracefile

Okay

@joshumax - duh, you can't use the same var on the left and right

of =

bf = bf

2:50 AM

gist.github.com/joshumax/8cfe81dc6b53dcbd3b02

What, but you can do that in virtually every other scripting language>

@joshumax I think this might be an issue.

Let me check the bash source code

var="Hello Hey am checking"
var=$(echo "$var" | cut -c 1-3)

It won't return anything.

so yeah

You can't b/c the subshell $(..) is in the process of using it while you're attempting to write to it.

2:51 AM

joshua ⎇ master ~/bash echo $var
Hel

@joshumax - I don't know what that is

joshua ⎇ master ~/bash var="Hello Hey am checking"
joshua ⎇ master ~/bash var=$(echo "$var" | cut -c 1-3)
joshua ⎇ master ~/bash echo $var

@Braiam Oh, bummer.

Which echos "Hel"

Ah Wait missed your comment sim sorry

@slm Hmm, well in that case, feel free to change it back. I guess I didn't realise that particular wrinkle.

2:53 AM

So it's causing some sort of race condition?

I'm here to serve

we'll leave it

Though if we follow that logic to its logical conclusion, we should be closing lots more qs as off-topic than duping.

Lots of the questions that are dupes suck.

He is not sim but slm ;)

@joshumax yeah

slm are my initials

was my 1st unix user account

Oops, sorry

So, it seems your command only works half the time

2:55 AM

@joshumax That's strange. It did not return me anything.

and when bash has to read from a script file it goes down to ~2% of the time working

Is this a bug? What version of bash are you using?\

@joshumax yeah that's a race condition for yeah. I was trying to find a more technical description by either Gilles or Stephane in a Q&A

just drops a link and move on atmelcorporation.wordpress.com/2014/11/04/…

can't find the link @FaheemMitha

@slm, is there any reason

var=$(echo "$var" | cut -c 1-3)
echo $var

works in one machine and not in another?

that works for me in a shell, I get Hel

2:57 AM

It's strange that I got nothing but @joshumax got the output.

GNU bash, version 4.2.47(1)-release (x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu)

GNU bash, version 4.3.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) treats this script funny, too

It's strange.

GNU bash, version 4.3.11(1)-release (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu)

Stranger ans stranger

$var get's trashed the 2nd time you try and run it

2:58 AM

*and

I'm going to check out the bash source out of curiosity

GNU bash, version 3.2.25(1)-release (i686-redhat-linux-gnu)

works there too

Okay, here's what I think I found out:

Well works here.

GNU bash, version 4.1.2(1)-release (x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu)

What the deuce? You looked in the source of Bash that fast?

No, but I did run bashdb

3:01 AM

I'd enable set -x

yeah and see what it's doing

ok

always get a debugger

usually I use bashdb but ok

dammit, it works.

I was checking in the wrong terminal. Guess it's not advisable to work in multiple terminals at the same time ;)

seems to work on bash -x

3:03 AM

so far it's been working for me

Why is this not working when in script form

Okay, putting a bash shebang fixed it

Must've been parsed in dash maybe?

why does dash mutilate it?

dash is mikeserv's domain

I don't use it

I only ever use Bash, Csh, and Tcsh

he is not active in chat for quiet sometime.

@mikeserv - If you're feeling generous, a user has the following gist that doesn't work in Dash and he doesn't know why gist.github.com/joshumax/8cfe81dc6b53dcbd3b02

@Ramesh - yes I know why

My script is still broken though, even with the shebang in it? Any ideas? gist.github.com/joshumax/9594c3b96fdd2d26d635

3:08 AM

Always quote vars in Bash

"$1"

did I not quote it?

at the end of the script bracefile_contents = ""

    bracefile_name=$1

    if [ ${vararr[0]} == "INDENT_LEVEL" ]; then

Ah, whoops

    if [ ${vararr[0]} == "INDENT_MULTI" ]; then

Fixed up some of my unquoted variables

3:14 AM

if [ "$(echo "$bracefile_contents" | head -n 1)" != "Bracefile 1.0" ]; then

Doesn't this result in a line with a trailing \n?

no

Or it shouldn't as changing Bracefile 1.0 to Bracefile 2.0 makes it fail

This me only looking through it

when you re-run it now, what does it do?

Same failure, right at bracefile_contents=$(echo "$bracefile_contents" | sed '/^==STARTCONFIG==$/,/^==ENDCONFIG==$/d')

the echo piped to sed is empty

Does this line need a double quote around the arg to parse_bf_config?

parse_bf_config $(echo "$bracefile_contents" | sed -n '/^==STARTCONFIG==$/,/^==ENDCONFIG==$/p')

Not sure but the param passes correctly

3:19 AM

I think the subshell protects in that scenario, but it looks off to me

agh why does this work in the shell and not the script

this script is pretty awful, no offense

Thank you

It's a giant ugly hack and meant to be one

which is part of the problem, we're polishing a turd. I'm sorry, I've written this script myself so I mean no disrespect.

What do you mean by written yourself?

3:24 AM

When I have a nagging issue like this I take that as a sign that I need to tighten things up so I can see where the issue is, there's too much noise here

I mean I've written awful scripts like this when 1st starting out

I've been using unix system for 6 years

but thanks

That's not very long

I've been using them for 20+ years

Anyways what did I do wrong in this script?

It looks ugly, but specifically?

I would lean more on bash for things and not so much cmds like sed, head, etc

The problem lies in that I might want to port this to korn sometime

Or regular dash

3:27 AM

can I get a sample of Bracefile?

Sure

OK, then we use these commands

gist.github.com/joshumax/fa96f368b9e2348f9263

You can call sed once instead of sed | sed | sed too

sed -e '...' -e '...' -e '...'

Ah, yeah, that's what I assumed was command poop

Yeah I'm a pipaholic

3:29 AM

we've all been there 8-)

I still think in those terms

So i can just run gist.sh then?

need to be in a dir or anything?

nope

The script's not even done yet though

The whole concept is to parse python with braces code to regular python code

As one of my friends likes to use pythonb while the other wants straight python

seems like you should make them fix this 8-)

And making so meting official in C/perl would take too long

It was all I could do to prevent a holy war!

I assume this is a joke:

I really liked this idea so I emailed Linus. His reply: ***k off already! That's a good sign, right? — mikeserv Oct 28 at 10:50

@slm have you contacted the kernel ml about this?

@FaheemMitha nope

3:33 AM

No way I fixed it by unquoting $bracefile_contents

@slm ok

I don't want to know why anymore.....thanks for the tips slm!

> excel bugs: preserved so your work arounds don't fail -

that can probably be expanded to shells too.

Seth!

Hi :)

3:34 AM

Can't tell you how many scripts I've started in Bash b/c there's no way I'd need anything more turned into I F'in hate Bash 8-)

(FWIW I'm the friend who wants to use straight Python :P)

I was just talking about you...you lil' python lover you

@Seth - why didn't you say so!

@slm - what is that gist thing supposed to do? it doesn't look like shell script at all...

I know Seth pretty well

3:35 AM

@slm Should I have? ;P

virtually

o_O

;)

@joshumax So what was the final solution?

@mikeserv We thought it was a dash issue

Okay so now it parses build config options...I feel like I'm overcomplicating a sed regex

I'm not sure anymore, unquoting fixed it so...

Maybe we're not talking about the same thing....

3:37 AM

I was still trying to understand what it was doing

The OP, @joshumax is here still

Bracefile 1.0

==STARTCONFIG==
INDENT_LEVEL: lol
INDENT_MULTI: 0
==ENDCONFIG==

BR:some/dir/test.pyb:another/dir/test.py
CP:some/dir/nochange.html:another/dir/nochange.html

whoops wrong gist

Ah

^that's what we're talking about?

gist.github.com/joshumax/9594c3b96fdd2d26d635

this is the 2nd one

3:37 AM

Hey @mikeserv. What's happening?

bracefile_contents=$(echo "$bracefile_contents" | sed '/^==STARTCONFIG==$/,/^==ENDCONFIG==$/d') fails

bracefile_contents=$(echo $bracefile_contents | sed '/^==STARTCONFIG==$/,/^==ENDCONFIG==$/d') works

MAGIC

@FaheemMitha - INDENT_LEVEL: lol

@mikeserv pardon?

from the script

INDENT_LEVEL: lol

That was my original bracefile to test if is_int was working

3:39 AM

@slm i see someone answered that kernel history question. is that good enough, you think?

@slm funny sort of greeting

@FaheemMitha - shoot the lnk

@slm whatever mikeserv has is obviously catching

@FaheemMitha link for the Q, I don't have it handy

b=$(echo "$b") fails

b=$(echo $b) works

@slm ah.

14

Q: How did the Linux Kernel project track bugs in the Early Days?

We all know that Linus Torvalds created Git because of issues with Bitkeeper. What is not known (at least to me) is, how were issues/tickets/bugs tracked up until then? I tried but didn't get anything interesting. The only discussion I was able to get on the subject was this one where Linus share...

linux kernel git history

Yeah unquoting works for some reason...

user image

3:42 AM

Time to check the dash source ;P

@joshumax - that's your script?

@mikeserv I know 8-)

No, just a piece

And I figured it out... :O

it.was.an.issue.in.my.bash_profile

Well, dash doesn't read that.

It's not using dash

3:45 AM

That makes more sense then.

Something's messing up in github.com/revans/bash-it

so does it work with the quotes now?

@Seth it wasn't when I tried, but I'm still not sure what "works" means

Yep. Why is it always the obscure issues with me? Oh well back to working on my pain-in-the-bash script

Man, I just found out libqt5 isn't included in the default Ubuntu install until like.. 13.10.

3:48 AM

@FaheemMitha - that A seems good enough, the OP accepted it, let it be

@slm ok

@slm it.. does what it is supposed to? :P

There are some things you can do to clear it up a little. You can be a little more definitive as opposed to conditional. Like bracefilename=${1:-$bracefilename} is fine - no if necessary.

Thanks mikeserv

@Seth what's suppose to happen when it works?

Thanks @mikeserv

3:48 AM

Or even - bracefilename=${1:?WHERES MY ARG???}

Oh, well...

It'll parse python with braces files to python files

Like make, but for lexing pythonb files

It's so ugly it's beautiful

@slm I don't exactly know, as I'm not working on this. Apparently something in github.com/revans/bash-it was messing with it and causing the quotes not to work when substituting. Or something like that.

I have to go read a couple chapters about cucumber, otherwise I'd help you rewrite this

I think you're taking a crusty hack too seriously @slm

well. good luck. if you like, I could maybe clear these two functions up. especially the sed bits.

3:50 AM

@joshumax that could be Bash's tag line

> It's so ugly it's beautiful

@slm cucumber? is that a code name?

Hah

it's BDD testing tool/framework

It's interesting cause I was just working on a sed script that extracts man chunks based on indent level.

"I think you're taking a crusty hack too seriously" -Richard Stallman on the GNU Hurd

3:51 AM

Behavioral Driven Development

@joshumax - nah only if you wanted to make it better, I'd take Mike up on his offer if you want

if it works it works

It's fine, if I want to I'll port it to perl or C

it even works - like if you give it a heading pattern it will print all blocks that follow that fit within its indent level.

Something I didn't learn off of the internet in 2 hours

@slm en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucumber_(software) ?

cukes.info

3:53 AM

Is that the kind of thing you're trying to do here - but with python?

that's it

me?

@joshumax - yeah - are you trying to extract text based on indent level?

no

See this: pythonb.org

Oh.

3:55 AM

@slm that's.. green!

you can watch a video

railscasts.com/episodes/155-beginning-with-cucumber

I'm turning this:
if foo=="bar" {
  print "Indentation";
print "doesn't";
    print "matter!";
}

into this:
        if foo=="bar":
          print "Indentation"
          print "matters"

oh yeah it's green

aaaannd, I can't indent on the chat

cucumber is written in gherkin and there's extra stuff you can add in called pickles

5

I wish I was making this up

3:56 AM

@joshuamax - that's interesting...

And embedded {} are possible - but can they be quoted?

What do you mean?

I mean is ..

block {
    block {
        text=\{
    }
 }

Possible?

Or are they always matched sets?

@slm that's scary cool.

Ah, yeah I won't parse like that

I see the confusion

You're trading delimiters, right? {} braces for <tab> indents?

3:59 AM

All I have to do is have a lookup table of python keywords that precede the braces to prevent issues like that

No

It's a bit more complex

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