The Velodrome

8:10 AM

@Mσᶎ on my course, the sheer quantity of bespoke tools required to install and remove Campag groups was staggering. I thought Shimano were bad enough. This is bound to be why some UK shops avoid them - why should you spend hundreds of £/$/€ on tools you'll use twice a year?

But as I said somewhere above, I stripped a bike with Campag and was very impressed with the build quality of it.

At the start of the summer, I was offered an ex- Lotto Belisol Team bike. Right size'n'everything. Richley frame, Campag 11sp electronic Super Record. £2500 (USD3500??). I said "no" on the grounds that (a) I didn't need another bike, and (b) in any case, everything I own is Shim and Campag was unfamiliar to me.

I must admit to having some regrets about letting that one go by.

Although I'm told wrt electronics, Campag are way behind Shimano technically.

Rilakkuma

I called a bike shop today and asked them how much will it take to switch the whole gorupset from Shimano to Campa, including my own groupset

prices varied from 300 to 500 euros.

I guess that's how they justify the price of tools.

PeteH

@Rilakkuma wonder what that is in hours?

In the UK, bike mechanics jobs pay near minimum wage

Rilakkuma

No idea... Ironically, a shop which has "full refresh" plan where they change your tires, chain, derailleur, brakes, tapes n other small stuff is about 100 euros.

But I do not think it would take even the whole day for an experienced mechanic

PeteH

It shouldn't

Rilakkuma

...and the shop which asked 500 euros is the one where I bought one of my bicycles once removed all parts and put them together for free once. :)

PeteH

8:22 AM

But interesting they will do all the things required for €100, but when you actually say "Shim to Campy" the price jumps

Rilakkuma

I did not mention Campy by the way :)

probably should have to - there are many Campy lovers in Japan.

PeteH

Do you know where Campy is made? Is it still in Italy or do they offshore it these days?

Rilakkuma

Not sure. My parts say "Italy", but not sure about all of them.

PeteH

I'm surprised what you say about Campy, given that Shimano are Japanese

Rilakkuma

Chain is definitely in China

It has to do something with "other wife is more pretty" psychology. :) In Japan riding Lexus is not as cool as riding, let's say Alfa Romeo. Same goes for Campy, but for Campy at least I can see the reason why - they are very well engineered.

PeteH

8:27 AM

I suppose so. You'd think bike shops would be more geared up to deal with them in that case ;)

Lots of the pro teams ride Campag rather than Shimano. I do wonder whether there is anything in that....

...or whether it is just money talking

I suppose it just means that either is good enough to win a bike race.

Rilakkuma

certainly! :) from what i know pro guys do not have any space to choose by their liking and use what sponsors told them to

PeteH

I think its quite funny when you get the "what bike should I buy" questions on here ,especially with road bikes....

I'd always advise to look at the bikes the teams are riding

Any of those brands must be good bikes

Rilakkuma

I would just tell to buy red one, because red bikes are cooler. :) If a person knows what he needs he won't ask the question. If he does not, anything will work as long as it is red.

PeteH

;)

Rilakkuma

all bikes are ridable and nice under certain circumstances. I even enjoy riding wife's mama-chari which she uses to go for the convenience shop - it feels like chopper, like you know Harley Davidson or something from that side. :)

PeteH

8:38 AM

I actually have a (women's) Dutch granny bike for going to the shops.

Rilakkuma

that's what is called mama-chari here

with the cage and very sitting position

PeteH

They're so relaxing to ride

Rilakkuma

yep :) always feeling a little paranoid not to fall on the back though

probably tomorrow will be my wrenching and saving an equivalent 300~500 euros day.

PeteH

Mine weighs 18kg. I often think I'd be better getting exercise on that, rather than my 10kg carbon bike!

Rilakkuma

10 kg for carbon bike is a weight too. Is it MTB?

anyway, the shrimp position of a typical roadie makes better use of the whole body and not just buttocks

Mσᶎ

8:47 AM

My commuting bike has the upright seating position of a granny bike, and the hub gears, but also a top tube and no chain guard. I like comfy.

speaking of which, it's nearly 7pm in a Friday night. Time to go to bed :)

Rilakkuma

Good night! :)

PeteH

See ya! The carbon bike is a road bike, but I was approximating

Rilakkuma

actually my commuter road bike is 10 kgs too, but it is old and cromoly

PeteH

@Mσᶎ when I got the omafiets, the big difference between mens and womens was top tube or not. I opted for "not". Didn't want to expend all that effort mounting it, this is a lazy bike!

It came with Woods valves on the tubes, first time I've seen them since childhood!

Rilakkuma

9:20 AM

are Woods valves same thing as what is called "english type" valve?

Rilakkuma

9:30 AM

googling said yes

these things are fairly common here. Nearly all non-road bicycles use them.

PeteH

@Rilakkuma very rare here. We have prestas and Schraders. Woods are also known as Dunlop valves (Dunlop = British rubber company), was not aware they were also called English valves. But doesn't surprise me.

Rilakkuma

wait, Schraders and English valves were different thing? I clearly need some more education!

ah, indeed, different.

Sorry, never seen them around here that's why thought they are same.

PeteH

sheldon to the rescue sheldonbrown.com/gloss_u-v.html#valve

Rilakkuma

excellent website

thank you :)

PeteH

yeah, sheldon is tops. The Woods valve, you just use a presta adapter to inflate it.

Rilakkuma

9:39 AM

I use screw-on Schrader adapter to inflate all of them... :]

it fits excellently on all prestas and can be fit on English one if cap is removed

PeteH

So English == Schrader ?

Rilakkuma

nope, just well-engineered adapter by Lezyne

are you working in IT by the way?

PeteH

Lezyne is a good make, I have a high pressure pump of theirs and a couple of lights

Yes I've worked in IT for about 25 years, I run my own IT consultancy. Right now I'm taking a sabbatical.....

.....for about the last 18 months!!

Rilakkuma

wow! I asked because "normal" people do not use == :)

PeteH

Cut my teeth on C, back in the day.

Never forget the amazement at having the power to reboot a PC just from my code.

Rilakkuma

9:45 AM

:))

almost same as having PC bricked just from my code too!

PeteH

Mainly work in the .net and c# these days, but mostly now as an architect rather than a code monkey

Rilakkuma

I understand you very well, distancing myself from the raw code recently too.

PeteH

Design is more elegant, I prefer than. Coding always seem to equal "hack" these days. At least with my clients. I've done lots of work with banks.

Rilakkuma

but apparently good and not too expensive programmers are hard to find so in the new job often have to do much more coding than I would like, because no one else will do it.

PeteH

sounds familiar

The amount of people making a living out of programming, without knowing a whole lot about programming, is staggering. I end up mentoring a lot more than I'd like

These are all the things which made me take a sabbatical! Now I'm not sure I want to go back, hence dabbling with a bike mechanics course

Rilakkuma

9:53 AM

seems like same issues are all over the globe.

I distance from programming mainly because one needs to live in the code to be a good programmer which means constant learning of all the newest stuff which gets more and more bloated. On the other hand experience grows with time and at some moment you don't feel like cracking algorithms day and night and more like seeing the big picture and trying to arrange it.

PeteH

I think there's a balance - if you stay with the code, your skills are more marketable. I have that trouble when looking for clients. Coding skills can be easily recognised, design skills are a bit less tangible.

I find I walk a line between the two

Or walked ;)

Rilakkuma

how about the wages? In Japan a pure coder is kind of dirt worker so you can be shining coder but it will be hard to jump over the roof regarding wages - no one cares how cool and efficient algorithm one makes, people only care if job is well done or not. I am definitely not calling towards dirty hacks instead of good and maintainable coding but this is just an example of what is needed by market.

PeteH

In the UK I think any coder worth their salt will earn a pretty decent salary.

Rilakkuma

so that's little different I guess.

PeteH

But a lot of the time the "real" earnings are driven by market conditions, especially as a consultant

I went from earning 800GBP/day at one point, to earning 350.

That was before and after 9/11

A permanent employee would fare better, as they never get pay cuts. But I know a few people who haven't had a pay increase in a few years

But as a consultant it is all down to market conditions.

I cannot complain though, I have earned a lot over the years

Rilakkuma

10:09 AM

btw., I did not know 9/11 influenced markets so bad.

btw., have to go to visit bike shop now until it is not too late. See you later!

PeteH

laterz, have a good one

Rilakkuma

Thanks, you too!

nhinkle

5:34 PM

Just made campground reservations at Crater Lake for late semptember! Free park admission for national public lands day, and most of the road around the rim will be closed to cars... BIKE TRIP!

Crater Lake

Crater Lake is a caldera lake in the western United States, located in south-central Oregon. It is the main feature of Crater Lake National Park and is famous for its deep blue color and water clarity. The lake partly fills a nearly 2,148-foot (655 m)-deep caldera that was formed around 7,700 (± 150) years ago by the collapse of the volcano Mount Mazama. There are no rivers flowing into or out of the lake; the evaporation is compensated for by rain and snowfall at a rate such that the total amount of water is replaced every 250 years. At 1,943 feet (592 m), the lake is the deepest in the United...

It's a 33 mile ride around the rim, so we'll drive down early on a Saturday, do the ride, camp Saturday night, then maybe hike a bit on Sunday. Super excited!

PeteH

8:16 PM

Sounds good @nhinkle

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