The Upper Room

I am a bit curious about seeking out a bible study. There are several reasons for this: A friend of mine (in another country) says she finds such a study group enjoyable, and it seems to be a good way to meet new people. (I myself just moved to a new country, where Christianity seems to have a l...

It seems very localized to me

but I'm not familiar with all the guidelines/expectations here

Anonymous

@waxeagle What does horse-racing have to do with 'Presbyterian nun'?

wax eagle

1:09 AM

@Anonymous it's the horse's name :)

@Daи we talked about it earlier and Caleb and I both nearly closed it, but decided it wasn't so much pastoral advice as just a good subjective question. if that makes sense

Anonymous

@Daи That's an opinion-based question.

Daи

@waxeagle ahh gotcha

so I should retract my close vote in that case

Anonymous

@waxeagle LOL.

Daи

thanks

Anonymous

@waxeagle Why is apostolic tradition a bad thing to Presbyterians?

wax eagle

1:12 AM

@Anonymous it's not neccessarily a bad thing for instance they adhere to the creeds. But it's not treated with the same reverence as scripture

Anonymous

@waxeagle Then why isn't it treated with the same reverence as scripture?

wax eagle

@Anonymous because it's not considered infallible

Anonymous

@waxeagle How do you view the oral Torah in Judaism then?

wax eagle

@Anonymous you mean the Talmud?

Anonymous

@waxeagle Yes.

wax eagle

1:15 AM

I don't consider it inspired, it can add cultural context to the actual Torah, but isn't necessary nor is it authoratative

Anonymous

@waxeagle Why is having things written more valuable than having things spread orally? How do you view religious traditions solely passed down by word of mouth?

wax eagle

@Anonymous well, you can't be too disparaging as for many years that's how the Torah was passed down, that's what Moses (or whoever wrote Genesis) had to work with. However, Christianty contends that certain works are inspired and that certain other works are not. Most Protestants contend that the only inspired works are the 66 books in the traditional Bible

Anonymous

@waxeagle Do you believe that Moses wrote the Pentateuch?

(That's a pretty traditional belief, as people in the 19th century thought the same way too.)

wax eagle

@Anonymous I'm waffly on that one.

@Anonymous plenty of folks still do.

We know for a fact he didn't write all of it :)

Anonymous

@waxeagle So... have you ever read the so-called non-inspired books?

wax eagle

1:26 AM

@Anonymous nope, haven't had a chance

Anonymous

Which Bible version do you use?

@waxeagle Have you ever read other religious literature?

@waxeagle Are Presbyterians allowed to read other religious literature, or is that considered taboo?

@waxeagle Have you ever been to a PCUSA church?

wax eagle

@Anonymous not taboo

@Anonymous yes, numerous times

@Anonymous haven't really had much of a chance. I'd like to read through the Quran and the D&C at some point. Mostly out of curiousity

Anonymous

2:00 AM

@waxeagle Any non-Abrahamic stuff?

Anonymous

3:47 AM

@waxeagle Have you ever expressed doubts about the Protestant biblical canon?

@waxeagle Have you ever read non-canonical gospels?

@waxeagle Have you ever read non-canonical epistles?

@waxeagle Do you order your children to pray every night before bedtime?

@waxeagle Do you pray every night before bedtime?

@waxeagle Has there ever been a moment in your life when you just skipped a prayer?

@waxeagle Do you believe in Santa?

I wonder if Christians are allowed to believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Faerie.

Perhaps, they are too heretical.

Maybe they would be considered idolatry or something.

And idolatry is very, very bad!!!

@fredsbend What is your faith background?

@fredsbend I think you are non-denominational and eclectic, right?

@fredsbend Why is your name 'fredsbend'? Fred's Bend?

@fredsbend Who is Fred? Is that you?

@fredsbend Do you want to be called 'Fred' then?

@fredsbend Or do you want to be called 'Freddie' or 'Freddy' or 'Frederic' or 'Frederick' or 'Federico'?

AJ Henderson

4:13 AM

wohoo, I now have access to the first post and late answer queues

it is interesting that they don't list "Gallery Chat" as granted on sites you don't have 1000 rep on, even though the chat system gives you the right as soon as you have sufficient rep anywhere

Anonymous

4:26 AM

@AJHenderson I have that too.

wax eagle

5:20 AM

@AJHenderson chat privs are...wierd

Caleb

6:29 AM

@Daи That question got a bad title stuck on it since I reviewed it that made it look like pastoral advice. I just redid that.

Daи

@Caleb ahh makes sense

I retracted my close vote FYI

Caleb

It's borderline, but my thought was it is the kind of subjective we can actually field.

Daи

Makes sense, I asked right away because I'm not totally up to speed on expectations here

I've read most of the major meta posts, but I also know that doesn't always give an accurate picture

I don't know enough of the history, key players, and competing positions of contention about policy and moderation here

And I kind of like it that way :)

@Caleb I wish I had more time to participate here. Most questions I'd like to answer would take hours, if not days, to read, think and write about

But unfortunately it seems a lot more subjectivity is tolerated here, and most folks who ask and answer are clueless about Church history

A large number of questions here have been raised before in the history of the Church, and often addressed by minds far more capable than most contributors here (including my own), but rarely do answers bring this up nor benefit from it

It's a shame, but also par for the course I suppose

Caleb

9:35 AM

@Daи does this answer the question from your flag? (for those that can't see deleted posts I'll screen-shot it)

That sort of thing is an instant delete as NAA. If you see anything answering from a belief system expressly uncalled for in the question flag as NAA.

Also consider dowvoting, esp if it also bashes that system or is otherwise more than just a simple misunderstanding. We have enough 20k users that can cast delete votes to remove that stuff without a mod, but it has to be at least -1 before they can VtD. Flaging NAA also puts it it the 10k mod tools that a number of our user do check and that gives them a chance to comment and take care of this stuff possibly before a mod gets to it.

Our average flag handling time is pretty short but it's really nice to have it appropriately commented when we come by to clear the mod queue.

Caleb

10:16 AM

@Daи I wish we had a timer on the answer compose screen that prohibited people for posting if they had not been actively editing for at least half an hour!

2

@Daи Ironically, the subjectivity usually comes out most in capital 'T' Truth questions, or ones that toe the line (usually because the framing is forced to keep them from getting closed but at heart people still want to ask the truth question). Those attract subjectivity, and yes ignorance, like buzzards to roadkill.

Please be ruthless with your VtC's on any doctrinal questions that do not have a framework by which answers can be objectively judged as being representative of the requested view.

Obviously christian-practice, overview or other non doctrinal questions are judged differently, but if it's about doctrine (or doctrine in the guise of exegesis) then it needs to have enough scope to be able to say objectively when an answer is out of bounds.

And any good exegesis questions that are not just doctrine questions it flashy suits can be flagged for migration to BH. I do not approve most migration suggestions because the questions are not usually really looking for raw interpretation, they generally want to know if their proof text for a doctrine is valid. Meh! But if good ones come along or they get edited to be sound enough I'm happy to shuttle them over.

AJ Henderson

3:36 PM

Hmm I got confused by getting 2 rep on a question. It's been so long since I edited on a site that I don't have 3k rep on I forgot about the rep bonus.

fredsbend

4:02 PM

@DavidStratton Thanks for sharing.

fredsbend

4:13 PM

@Anonymous Actually, it's pronounced Frodrick. lol

I made it up when I was 11. It means nothing.

@Caleb Excellent wording here.

Caleb

@fredsbend Thanks, but next time can I just box their ears? It would be way easier.

fredsbend

@Caleb haha.

esp repeat offenders

Caleb

@fredsbend I've had to delete 4/5 answers from that OP so far and the 5th needs help.

fredsbend

@Caleb how quickly is he posting?

Caleb

@fredsbend The first batch came in so fast twice another popped while I was still writing comments on the last one. The most recent one was a day or two later.

fredsbend

4:27 PM

@Caleb When does a one day suspension come into consideration for this kind of thing (certainly not asking you to do that, just curious about how you moderate).

Caleb

@fredsbend It's pretty rare. We usually work with people for quite a while before we resort to that and in this case part of the problem was he wasn't looking over his shoulder. When I caught up to him it stopped, so there was no need. If he'd defied it after I knew he'd read my comments by posting yet another comment-to-user-as-answer I would have considered it.

But his second issue (above) is categorically a different kind of problem. So education rather that correction seems to be the key.

fredsbend

@Caleb I see. Is this perhaps an issue with the se system. Are unregistered users given the little notifications at the top when they have replies and such?

Caleb

@fredsbend Yes, but if they are busy typing something else up you think they are going to click on it?

Anonymous

@Caleb How do you know if a religion is false or true? How can you tell? Eh?

fredsbend

@Caleb No, you're right. If they feel like they are on a roll, they are going to keep going.

Daи

5:01 PM

@Caleb thanks for clarifying, just let me know if I ever flag something I shouldn't have so I can ensure I don't repeat the mistake - you are to reference any of my flags publicly

That should say "you are free to... On a tablet sorry

Didn't mean to come across as demanding you to :P

Daи

5:25 PM

whichever mod just deleted the garbage post on Satan - you should get a badge for being the 'fastest gun in the West'

I just saw it pop up and was going to flag it... and it was gone!

Daи

5:50 PM

TRiG

8:04 PM

Basically, you have to answer the question asked. The question was what do Catholics teach about this verse. You did not answer that question. Nor did you even attempt to, in fact. This isn't a discussion forum: it's a Q&A resource. This can take you a while to get your head around (the links in @Ryan's comment might help), but once you do I hope you find the site interesting and potentially useful. It serves a different (and complementary) role to most other religious sites on the Net. — TRiG Dec 7 '13 at 18:13

Should I flag this sort of thing in future, then?

Daи

@TRiG I just flagged it NAA

10 hours ago, by Caleb

That sort of thing is an instant delete as NAA. If you see anything answering from a belief system expressly uncalled for in the question flag as NAA.

based on that advice

TRiG

@Daи Right So. Makes sense.

Daи

@TRiG you can still flag it, too, never hurts :P

TRiG

Sometimes, on this site, people need a lot of prompting before they understand how things work around here. I leave comments like that sometimes. David Stratton leaves loads of them. Sometimes that can work. Fairly often, it doesn't.

Daи

@TRiG I've been leaving more comments now that I have all of his at my disposal:

6

Q: Anyone care to share templated comments?

I use the AutoReviewComment user script so that it actually pops up for me in the comment box and allows me to choose what to say to users. I recently shared all of my templated comments for import into this tool on BH.SE. Anyone else use these on this site and care to share? Or even if you keep ...

discussion moderation

Caleb

8:13 PM

@Daи No he can't. I caught your flag before he could have added one. It only took one sentence of that full page rant to verify that it was off the reservation.

Daи

@Caleb was it the "I trust the Holy Spirit not the Church" line?

:P

Caleb

@Daи On a question about Catholicism, yup that's a pretty good clue.

@Anonymous That would take more to answer properly that a few lines in chat. That's basically epistemology + theology rolled into one, not something I can unpack between other jobs here today. Sorry.

TRiG

@Anonymous Check how well it correlates with reality. (Warning: This is difficult.)

Daи

David Stratton is the Jon Skeet of commenting on C.SE — Daи 22 secs ago

Caleb

@TRiG That's part of it, certainly. It's more complicated that that though because you have to figure out what is "reality" first and by the time you've done that you have some assumptions you have to stick with for the spiritual too.

Daи

8:23 PM

@Caleb @TRiG hence epistemology + theology (+ how these impact your views on metaphysics/ontology, which will explain what is meant by 'reality')

and this is stuff we are virtually blind to

TRiG

@Caleb Well, what is true is what is real. The two are the same. Therefore, the religion which correlates best with reality is also the truest. Of course, working out what reality is may be tricky. (I don't see a relevant distinction between spiritual and mundane reality here, even assuming that such a distinction makes any sense in any other context.)

@Daи We build our logic on assumptions we are barely aware of, yes. I should probably read more philosophy.

Daи

@TRiG there are quite a few epistemological assumptions, right there ;)

Caleb

@TRiG Neither do I really, so scratch my use of spiritual there.

Daи

don't worry, I do it too:

I just upvoted and accepted this as the correct answer. You hit the nail on the head: 'front-loading epistemology.' My blind spot here was imposing an empiricist epistemology (i.e. we can't empirically prove or disprove a metaphysical construct, so asking about it should be off topic). This was wrong of me. Thank you for making it clear. — Daи 12 hours ago

^^^ very much related to this discussion ;)

Caleb

@TRiG But yes, real and true are pretty much the same thing, so you can't judge true by comparing it to true unless you have some presuppositions to work from.

Daи

8:26 PM

@Caleb clearly not a postmodern worldview, I see

:P

again, epistemological assumptions abound for all of us

Caleb

Yes. It's kind of a must.

It's not like being aware of the 'problem' you can just stop making them.

TRiG

@Caleb Well, my initial response to @Anonymous was not intended to be helpful. ;)

2

Daи

@Caleb not at all, since both 'awareness' and 'problem' require numerous assumptions to define

not to mention what it means to be aware

:P

@TRiG nor are any of my comments - I am being facetious

TRiG

(Actually, it kind of was. I don't think the intellectual tools for deciding which is the truest religion are particularly distinct from the intellectual tools we use to distinguish truth from falsehood in any other area. And I think my response to @Anonymous made that point.)

(Perhaps it made that point badly.)

Daи

but this is why good philosophy has to write a book just to define their terms and premises before they can even begin giving syllogisms

and it is also why philosophy books tend to be so long and hard to read, because every single word used has been redefined by the time you get to the syllogism

and then a bunch of popular philosophy works republish and discuss only the syllogisms and compare them to other philosopher's syllogisms even though they are using the same terms to mean totally different things

and thus compare apples to oranges, further keeping their readers ignorant of philosophy

TRiG

8:31 PM

@Daи Somewhere on one of the many blogs I frequent, someone mentioned a dictionary of religion which spent tens of pages near the beginning groping toward a definition of religion.

Caleb

> 9 flags, average handling time 0 days 0 hours 21 minutes 0 seconds

(today's stats form CSE mod history)

2

Daи

@TRiG you pretty much have to do this to have meaningful discussion, but most don't (in fact, most don't even grasp basic Aristotelian logic anymore and thus the need for terms, premises, and syllogisms and how they relate)

Anonymous

@TRiG In that case, I hold the opinion that the Book of Mormon is a work of fiction.

Daи

and there's then folks like me who come along and say that we can't speak cataphatically about God's essence using Aristotelian logic :P

Anonymous

@Caleb So, has anybody asked that?

Daи

8:33 PM

which pretty much invalidates the discussion of some theology in and of itself

Caleb

@Daи I was waiting for that shoe to drop.

Daи

@Caleb :P

Anonymous

@Daи Huh?

TRiG

@Anonymous I've not read it. From what I know of it, though, I wouldn't call it fiction, as such; I think it's wrong, possibly even intentionally so, but it's not intended to be read as fiction.

Of course, definitions differ.

Daи

@Anonymous There is a lot of prerequisite knowledge that goes into unpacking that chat message

Caleb

8:35 PM

@Anonymous On main? That would be too broad without doing some research to narrow down some of the variables.

TRiG

@Daи Also, the mutability of language. It's okay for words to mean different things in different context, and sometimes you have to clarify your terms before you proceed.

Anonymous

@TRiG Well, I didn't mean it should be read as fiction. I meant to say that the Book of Mormon is fiction or made-up by Joseph Smith or an acquaintance.

Daи

@Anonymous First you'd have to understand Aristotelian thought (and alternatives to it), then you'd need to grasp the distinction between apophatic and cataphatic speech, then you'd need to understand the history and use of Scholasticism (i.e. expressing theology in the ideology and language of Aristotelian thought), and then you'd have to grasp Neo-Platonism and how Eastern theology has emerged in distinction to Western theology

TRiG

@Daи Merely in distinction to, or also in reaction to?

Daи

@TRiG on the basis of Aristotelian logic, you have to define your terms before using them any time you want to make an argument/syllogism (and your premises)

TRiG

8:38 PM

To what extent are the two strains aware of each other, seeking to differentiate, and to what extent do they merely develop independently?

Daи

@TRiG yes, neo-Kantian and other historical reactions included

TRiG

To what extent is there actually a meaningful difference between worshipping the same God in different ways and worshipping different Gods? — TRiG Jun 11 '13 at 20:28

Daи

@TRiG in reply to that, I offer you:

amazon.com/…

Anonymous

@Daи St. Thomas Aquinas is a notable Dominican philosopher, influenced by Aristotle.

Daи

@Anonymous yep, he practically single-handedly caused all of Western Christianity since his time to submit theology to the worldview of Scholasticism

TRiG

8:39 PM

@Daи Lovely.

Nov 17 '13 at 1:21, by TRiG

in English Language & Usage, Oct 5 '11 at 17:00, by z7sg Ѫ

"An ignostic maintains that they cannot even say whether he/she is a theist or an atheist until a sufficient definition of theism is put forth."

Nov 17 '13 at 1:23, by TRiG

Theoretically, I quite like igtheism (despite its awful etymology), but I find that in practise, in the circles in which I run, most people seem to have a fairly solid conception of theism, and it's clear enough that I can say straight-out that I have no belief in God without fear of confusion. If someone is talking about an esoteric definition of the word, they'll clarify without my prompting.

Caleb

11

A: Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

The correct answer to this question is clearly … <err, not so fast> You see that's just the problem. Christianity doesn't have a clear unequivocal answer to this question that is broadly agreed on across traditions. Islam has now been around for about 1400 years promoting its ideas about the nat...

Daи

and this 5-volume set:

amazon.com/…

once you read those 6 books, you'll have a basic grasp on it

but note that these books already assume a good grasp of Christian history

TRiG

> The reason there isn't unanimity on whether to answer this question with "yes" or "no" is that it's the wrong question to be asking.

^^ Nicely put.

Daи

So you'd need the knowledge of something like this to even begin:

amazon.com/History-Christian-Church-Williston-Walker/dp/…

plus basic knowledge of philosophy and the history of philosophy

Caleb

@TRiG Also see Do Muslims, Mormons, and Christians Worship the Same God? were I got some of the inspiration for that answer, esp:

Daи

8:43 PM

beyond this, I can explain no further - because there is a lot of prerequisite knowledge to having a meaningful discussion

Anonymous

@Daи Great for a seminary student then.

Caleb

> Worshiping God wrongly is tantamount to worshiping the wrong god(s).

Daи

@TRiG "I think that the task of philosophy is not to provide answers, but to show the way we perceive a problem can be itself part of a problem, mystifying it instead of enabling us to solve it. There are not only wrong answers, there are also wrong questions. These wrong questions are what we call ideology." (Slavoj Žižek, “Year of Distraction” (speech, July 5, 2011), YouTube, 1:07).

Caleb

@Caleb But then that article was partly born out of a conversation I had with the author, so it's all a jumble really.

Anonymous

@Daи Yep. I can imagine philosophy, Christian history, and Christian tradition already part of the academic curriculum of a seminarian.

TRiG

8:45 PM

> I love my boss. My coworker hates the same boss. Does this mean we have multiple bosses?

Daи

@Anonymous sadly, not as much as it should be for many Protestant seminaries

Anonymous

@Caleb So, do you think you are worshiping the correct god in the correct tradition?

TRiG

> some propose that we should cut away the differing views and attempt to find the core commonalities between such religions. Indeed, some suppose that we should find the core commonalities between all religions. I think that is an errant errand, one that could never be accomplished.

^^ Some things that could never be accomplished are nonetheless worth trying, no?

Anonymous

@TRiG The boss may have multiple personality disorder and behave differently before you and your co-worker, giving each of you a different impression of him.

Caleb

@TRiG Some things yes. Depends on if the nature of the 'thing' makes partial results a good thing. In this case it does not.

Anonymous

8:50 PM

@Daи You said Protestant seminaries. What about Catholic and Orthodox seminaries?

@TRiG Like the Great Commission?

Daи

@Anonymous it depends on where you go and the quality of professors (really it depends on the quality of what books the student is required to read) - but Catholics generally do a really good job in this area, and Orthodox folks do an ok job overall (but often excellent here in America)

Caleb

@Anonymous If I didn't think I was worshiping the true God, do you think I would keep doing it?

(correct tradition is harder because the all have faults, but I am where I am by choice, so some of the same logic applies)

Daи

but again, the best education you can find is generally in what you read

TRiG

@Caleb I have a sudden thought. Or, rather, a sudden memory. This is not, so far as I know, a subject the Witnesses have any defined beliefs on: it was speculation with which I amused myself. Do false gods exist? I imagined demons masquerading as gods, performing petty miracles and suchlike. (It is standard Witness theology that demons do this kind of thing, and that the "spirit of Samuel" that Saul spoke to was actually a demon. The reading of it as a folk tale makes more sense, methinks.)

Daи

so a lot of this falls on the student too

Anonymous

8:53 PM

@Daи But Catholic priests may not be paid as much for their education as those mega-church Protestant preachers.

TRiG

@Caleb Well, finding common ground is generally a worthwhile pursuit. It doesn't mean you should then accept that common ground as the One True Whatever: it's just a friendly space to stand while you chat. (Cf. Mere Christianity.)

Daи

Catholic priests generally get a fully paid-for education, unlike most Protestants

Caleb

@TRiG I don't know about "all" but I think most of Christianity would agree "some" do.

Daи

Generally Protestants will have to go into close to $100,000 in debt (or worse) to get a great quality education

and often they go into about that much debt for a far lower quality education

Anonymous

@Caleb So, how did you get where you are now?

@Daи self-teaching then.

Daи

8:55 PM

@Anonymous yes and no, because it sometimes takes some instruction to learn how to evaluate sources

Caleb

@TRiG There is something to that. Did you catch footnote #2 in than answer I linked?

Daи

if you only read popular history that is fraught with erroneous assertions, you won't learn much

i.e. if you don't understand the distinction between, primary, secondary, and tertiary sources

TRiG

@Caleb Actually, I hadn't seen it, no. Yes, makes sense.

Daи

and most primary texts will require specialized language skills to read and understand

not to mention, not all good scholarship is available in English

Anonymous

@Daи Maybe some Protestants start as strong Catholic believers and then leave the Catholic priesthood?

Daи

8:58 PM

most reputable Ph.D programs for Biblical Studies and ecclesiastical history require proficiency in English, French, and German - plus whatever languages of the primary texts they are studying

@Anonymous I believe you have to pay it all back in that event, but I'm not sure

but a lot of Catholic priests get 4+ years of instruction in philosophy, languages, and history before beginning their study of theology

Caleb

@TRiG Lewis was of course talking about a hallway for discussion inside Christianity, but the same kind of goes for anybody. Like we've been discussing in here you have to define your terms, but you also have to find a way of approaching subjects that you can make yourself understood and finding ideas you agree on to build from is basically the only way that works.

Anonymous

@Daи I think middle-schoolers are taught that.

Daи

and a strong education in the classics (liberal arts) used to be the norm in Western education post-Renaissance (ad fontes!), but it's been significantly dumbed down so the student doesn't have to read as much (which is where most of the learning occurs)

@Anonymous not in most American schools

@Anonymous most participants on this site don't grasp this distinction, which makes me think that is not the case

TRiG

@Caleb I was reading something recently about how well liberals and conservatives (US definitions) understand each other. According to research A, conservatives understand liberals better than vicê versa. (Evidence: conservatives are better at predicting and explaining the liberal position on things.) According to research B, minorities are better at understanding majorities (makes sense: they have to live with 'em). And research A was done on university students, who do trend liberal. So ...

See also my own problems with understanding other people: Am I small-minded?

Anonymous

@Daи The children's writer's handbook WriteSource 2000 discusses this topic to some extent. You can also find the distinction on Wikipedia, if you happen to be a Wikipedia editor.

@TRiG I understand why you'd find religious concepts hard to grasp. A lot of philosophy. I think theology is just philosophy about God.

Daи

9:12 PM

@Anonymous technically, all fields of study involve philosophy about 'some topic'

there is a reason why the doctoral degree in any field is a Ph.D. - i.e. Doctor of Philosophy

although it used to be that anyone who earned a Ph.D. truly was trained in philosophy

not so much anymore

Anonymous

@Daи There is this multi-disciplinary course at my school that touches philosophy, linguistics, computer science and engineering, and psychology. It's for neuroscience majors.

Daи

@Anonymous there ya go

Anonymous

@Daи So, did you read all those books that you mentioned?

Daи

@Anonymous I;m still working my way through the five-volume to read them in their entirety ;) - I've read large portions of all, but only the first two all the way through so far

I actually am developing a reading list

I was only required to read certain pages in schooling

for instance, pp. 5-250 of Walker's history book

so I've been in the process of going back and reading the rest

Anonymous

@Daи How fast are you at reading? If the material is so dense, I usually slow down and think or doodle.

Daи

9:23 PM

@Anonymous to put it in perspective, I can fiction novels in 1-2 days, but I have to slow down to read these and take 1-2 months to get through each

Anonymous

@Daи What school?

Daи

after a couple months of reading history I move on to another topic usually

then come back to it

so it takes awhile

Anonymous

@Daи So, under the 1-2 days, do you ever need to use the toilet or take a break to eat?

Daи

@Anonymous this one

and currently this one

@Anonymous of course

I usually work a full day, so really I am only reading in the evenings

but admittedly I won't sleep much if I read it in 1-2 days

Anonymous

@Daи So, you have a Master's in Theology?

@Daи In other words, how much reading do you do in the evenings?

Daи

9:31 PM

@Anonymous nope, pursuing one - but I actually don't intend to finish it at this university

Anonymous

I have this reading pattern. First, I read aloud to capture my attention, and as I go further into the text, I begin to read silently and speed up my reading speed.

Daи

my masters is in the technology field

Anonymous

@Daи What are you going to do with it? Do you wish to become ordained?

Daи

@Anonymous I have no intentions of going into ordained ministry

that's what I initially set out to do

now it is out of personal interest

Anonymous

@Daи Well, you told me before that you were previously associated with the LCMS and then a long trail of churches and then returned to the LCMS before you converted to Orthodox Christianity.

Daи

9:35 PM

@Anonymous yup, the first school I linked to was an LCMS one

Concordia

Anonymous

I think you also said that you wanted to become a pastor at first but then never finished the education?

Daи

@Anonymous yep, I became agnostic

Anonymous

@Daи How did you become agnostic, and what sparked your interest in Christianity again?

@Daи How did Christianity attract you?

Daи

@Anonymous as much as I'd love to continue, I need to get going unfortunately

you could say that I felt theology as it was being taught at Concordia was man's failed attempt to turn faith into a science

and study of textual criticism disillusioned me since I was raised being taught the Bible was infallible and inerrant

I no longer believe that, but my faith doesn't rest on the Bible. It rests on the One Whom that Bible talks about ;)

anyhoo, I gotta run

ttyl

Anonymous

@Daи Huh?

Daи

9:44 PM

@Anonymous another time... :)

Anonymous

@Daи But textual criticism is a sign of modernism.

@Daи After reading so much, you've probably come to the conclusion that textual criticism might not be so bad after all, huh?

@Daи This doesn't sound like sola scriptura at all.

Duuuhhh... you are Orthodox.

Anonymous

11:13 PM

@Daи So far, you showed me nonfiction books. Do you think there are any novels that bring the theological concepts to life?

It would be kind of cool, if a person had created a very devout Orthodox Christian woman or man as the epitome of the Orthodox faith.

That way, the novel would be used to tell a story as well as teach Orthodox principles. XD

Anonymous

11:44 PM

@Daи If the word is "Church" with a capital C, as stated in "The History of the Christian Church," do you think that it is referring to the universal Christian church or the early Christian church?

If the former, is it referring to the entire body of Christians?

If the latter, is it referring to a particular group of people who call themselves Christians or believe in some variant of Christianity, even in the Christianity's early days?

I wonder who is the head of the Orthodox Christian Church.

The head of the Roman Catholic Church is the pope.

Maybe the Orthodox Christian Church is autocephalous.

In science, experts may argue for the competence of different theories vigorously but diplomatically, often looking for evidence in the natural world to reject or fail to reject a particular worldview. In any case, they are looking for truth about the world by testing hypotheses.

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