The Upper Room

2:18 AM

@TRiG I was always curious about Coriakin's history. Of course we don't get to know other people's stories in Narnia, except for when we do. The Dufflepud island is where the Voyage starts meeting other people again, but they have their own lives and history independent of the familiar Narnian mainland. Like the mermaid city later, and Bism in Silver Chair, they "open up" Narnia beyond the known landmarks.

There is this ambiguity about Coriakin where he is presented as a wise steward of the island, but that doesn't fit with the typical C. S. Lewis suspicion of magic-using rulers (or their mundane equivalents in our world - technocratic elites).

And he is there to be punished/reformed himself!

Whereas the Dufflepuds are not in need of any kind of punishment or reform, and are getting on perfectly well on their own, even if they are inefficient about some things.

TRiG

> Oddly, it seems to me that Coriakin's nearest magical soulmate is actually Saruman. Both are settled wizards rather than wanderers, have an association with scholarly magic rather than the more natural kind, and they both have a keen interest in bringing nearby people up-to-date in culture and technology. And both are punished by the authorities.

> Perhaps, when Coriakin first arrived on the island like a meteorite, he stumbled dazed out of the crater and, when asked his name, could only mumble a mixture of "Curunir" and "Sharkey"...

@JamesT I've actually forgotten a lot of my Narnia lore, and am rediscovering it by following Ana Mardoll.

On an unrelated note,

James T

@TRiG I would love this to be true.

TRiG

Paul’s Missionary Tube Map

@JamesT It's from muscipula in the comments. And yes, it's awesome.

James T

@TRiG They are also both into biological alterations (Dufflepuds/Monopods, the Uruk-Hai). Old habits die hard.

TRiG

@JamesT Point.

James T

2:32 AM

@TRiG The colonial themes are something I totally missed as a child, but now, esp. with Ana Mardoll's commentary, it is so clearly there. As with Coriakin-Saruman's secret brother, Prospero, but it's amazing the extent to which the whole of VoDT is packed with the idea.

TRiG

@JamesT I should probably reread the books properly. I remember reading The Horse and His Boy in my late teens, and being thoroughly squicked by the punishment of Avaris.

@JamesT I once skipped a gay pride event to attend a free outdoor performance of The Tempest.

Anonymous

@TRiG It looks like a subway map.

James T

@TRiG Oh, she gets clawed by Aslan when they are running away, or something like that? That must be the harshest thing that happens to any of the children in the books. I remember being scared by the bit with the tombs, and I liked Aravis and the two horses, but I was pretty neutral on Shasta.

@TRiG What did you think of the performance?

TRiG

@Anonymous To be precise, it looks like a London Underground map.

@JamesT Excellent. Absolutely excellent.

James T

I confess I had to look up the haircut thing.

"good barber"

Anonymous

2:46 AM

@TRiG Do you really think that Paul went on a really long missionary trip and wrote all those epistles?

TRiG

It actually wasn't a gay pride event: it was the March for Marriage. They end up outside the Department of Justice on Stephen's Green. We were in the Iveagh Gardens, and could hear the chanting and cheering, but it barely registered.

Anonymous

@TRiG So... are you going to get married?

James T

@TRiG I'm glad it turned out to be a good decision, though it sounds like the march would also have been a good decision.

I googled "march for marriage" and the first hit was an American anti group :-( but the pro group in Ireland was further down.

Anonymous

3:03 AM

@JamesT LOL.

I think there is some truth to that. Whether people are pro-gay or anti-gay, they both treat the issue very important, personal, and sensitive.

@JamesT That's weird. I googled the same term and found "march for marriage equality".

James T

@Anonymous Google do tweak results based on all sorts of factors so we can easily see different things.

I wonder if anyone has turned up to the wrong march by accident. It would be obvious fairly soon, though.

Anonymous

3:19 AM

@JamesT Hee-hee-hee. An extremely anti-gay person shows up at a gay parade and gets annoyed at the gayness.

It makes me wonder how homosexuality has become well-accepted in Western culture, while elsewhere in the world, the practice is frowned upon.

Then again, Western culture is known to be very influential to other parts of the world, so other cultures may westernize and adopt acceptance of self-identified homosexuals.

Daи

3:50 AM

@Anonymous happy (early) new year! :)

Anonymous

@Daи Huh?

Daи

@Anonymous using UTC time from SE and noticed it was the Chinese New Year (not quite yet) and you happened to be online so you got that observation (had I seen someone else, they would have got it - lucky you!) :P

Anonymous

It is the year of the horse!

Anonymous

4:09 AM

@Daи Sometimes, as a country modernizes, it brings new values and exchanges new ideas from foreign countries. Now, if a particular country westernizes, and Western culture is very influenced by Christianity, then would you say that particular country has also been christianized?

Or are they two different things?

David Stratton

I made a rather extensive edit to this question to try to bring it within site guidelines. It's still asking the same basic question, but reads as less "let's lynch this harlot" than the original. Hopefully it's suitable for reopening now.

Daи

4:27 AM

@Anonymous yep

@Anonymous no

@Anonymous I think Western society has a lot of values, especially moral ones, from Christianity whether it acknowledges it or not

@Anonymous but much of Christianity in the West is largely secular these days

Anonymous

4:51 AM

@Daи But religion is often intertwined in culture, language, and food. Even if the people are not religious anymore, they cannot escape their cultural background and learn the history of their people.

Daи

@Anonymous I agree they can't escape it, but they can generally learn their history

Anonymous

@Daи I think I made a grammatical error.

@DavidStratton Although you self-identify as 'fundamentalist', I am wondering if that is the widespread term for all fundamentalists. Do they all call themselves that, despite the negative connotations?

By negative connotations, I mean that fundamentalists stand for values contrary to the outside culture.

@DavidStratton Do fundamentalists try to fit in just a teensy-weensy bit, or is it a sin to assimilate into the mainstream culture?

Daи

@Anonymous 'fundamentalist' as a negative term usually just means 'someone who takes the Bible more literally/seriously than I do'

and is thus highly subjective and often not constructive

but if self-identified this way, I doubt it is meant in a derogatory way

Fundamentalism

Fundamentalism is the demand for a strict adherence to orthodox theological doctrines usually understood as a reaction against Modernist theology, primarily to promote continuity and accuracy. The term "fundamentalism" was originally coined by its supporters to describe five specific classic theological beliefs of Christianity, and that developed into a movement within the Protestant community of the United States in the early part of the 20th century, and that had its roots in the Fundamentalist–Modernist Controversy of that time. The term usually has a religious connotation indicatin...

"The term usually has a religious connotation indicating unwavering attachment to a set of irreducible beliefs."

Anonymous

5:06 AM

If self-identified fundamentalists want to stay away from the mainstream culture, I wonder if they have developed their own neighborhoods or invented their own lingos and hand gestures.

I don't think @DavidStratton is too isolated from the mainstream culture, since his profile mentions that he is a .NET developer.

Maybe he's isolated enough to be considered a 'fundamentalist'.

Daи

@Anonymous you are confusing fundamentalism with separatism

Anonymous

5:25 AM

@Daи I'd think fundamentalism might be a form of 'theological separatism'.

Daи

@Anonymous theological, yes

I thought you were implying separation from culture, i.e. physical withdrawal

Anonymous

@Daи Well, that too.

I mean, the Mormon Fundamentalists separate themselves from the mainstream LDS church theologically, geographically, and culturally.

The Amish are known for their secluded rural lifestyle.

I'm sure the Puritans who came to the Americas in the 1600s separated from mainstream English culture.

In any case, I think it's a legitimate question.

So, I also asked it here.

0

Q: Do self-identified Christian fundamentalists have their own geographical communities?

Do self-identified Christian fundamentalists have their own geographical communities? Surely, it is known that the "Fundamentalist Latter-Day Saints Church" has their own geographical communities, with the headquarters stationed in Utah. There are a couple of isolated Amish communities in the Ame...

Daи

@Anonymous asking if they have them is fine, but you may get some flack for asking where in the final sentence

Does Elisha speak?

4:30 PM

0

Q: Why isn't this question "too broad?"

Is Mary's virginity evidence that sex is always sinful? and What do Christians mean by a "personal relationship" with Jesus? Both of these question leave the doctrine open ended.

discussion

fredsbend

7:54 PM

@DavidStratton You spent a year attending a Mormon Church? Was that an experiment or were you part of or considering membership?

David Stratton

8:38 PM

@fredsbend I was considering membership. It was during my transformation from atheism to Christianity. By that point in time, I was at the "I'm no longer sure there's no such thing as 'God'" point, and was exploring various options to see if I could find anything that actually made sense to me.

fredsbend

8:57 PM

@DavidStratton Then what happened?

David Stratton

9:41 PM

Well, I was scheduled to get baptized and become a member, and my Mom begged me to talk to her Baptist pastor. By that time, I was fully convinced that the Bible was God's Word, that it was infallible and trustworthy, but I didn't really believe the Joseph Smith story. Anyway, her pastor talked to me a bit, took me through the Romans road, etc.

I didn't get saved that day, but he did remind me that if I joined the LDS Church, I'd be expected to spread that message, and could I really live with myself, proclaiming a message I didn't believe in? Of course, the answer was no, so that was the end of me and the LDS Church... I moved on, tried others.

I settled for Baptist after trying a dozen other Churches/denominations because it was the baptist pastors that consistently told me "If I ever tell you anything that's contrary to what's in the Bible, you believe the Bible, not me." Some, but not all, of the others came across as "You can't trust your own understanding of Scripture, trust mine".

They may not have meant it that way, but at any rate, it was the fact that several Baptist Pastors from various Churches gave the same message - God's word is infallible, we humans are not - that drew me to that particular denomination.

But it wasn't until I'd been attending a Baptist Church for a while that I actually gave my life to Christ. But that will have to wait. Kids just got home from school.

AJ Henderson

10:07 PM

@DavidStratton you must be American Baptist. There are major differences between Southern Baptist and American Baptist

the way I always put it is that every American Baptist church I've been to is basically non-denominational with a strong emphasis on food

potluck this and luncheon that

(I grew up in an American Baptist affiliated church before going purely non-denominational.)

wax eagle

quick sounding board. What do y'all think of this question: christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/25372/…

I almost reached for the close button immediately, but then thought better of it.

This seems like the kind of personal advice that we're safe shelling out. thoughts?

AJ Henderson

it seems like it is probably within the realm of "Good Subjective"

it invites personal experiences and is answerable I think

wax eagle

That's where I come down

Caleb

10:25 PM

@wax I did exactly the same reach for the close and then changed my mind for the same reason.

It almost got closed within 60 seconds :)

AJ Henderson

Good Subjective/Bad Subjective is one of those things that is really hard to judge, even after being around SE for a long while

wax eagle

@Caleb twice :)

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