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9:00 PM
@alphabet IT'S PRONOUNCED "GIF"!
 
Yes, GIF, /dʒɪf/.
 
@XanderHenderson I can't help it: I have a good parting memory of profs who graded more fairly or just better, even if for no reason, and I remember more of their subject matter. This is quite biased of course: I will naturally not remember courses I myself didn't do very good at fondly, and not being good at them now is not related to the grading rubric
 
@Cerberus Pretty much, yeah.
 
Gee Eye Eff
I'm a troglodyte
 
@alphabet Are you chatting with anyone at the moment?
 
9:03 PM
@M.A.R. I agree that unfair grading is bad. I'm just not sure that I see where the connection is between unfair grading and reusing exam items (or even entire exams).
 
@XanderHenderson The "f" is pronounced like the "f" in "roofs."
 
Also Jif is gross. Peanut butter should not contain sugar.
3
 
Oh, roofs as in hooves?
 
But I'm saying I'm trying to mentally adjust for that, and I feel with some certainty that if prof X graded the final exams better, I would have remembered more of his subject matter
 
@Cerberus Not right now, no.
I am swiping on people on that app where you swipe on people.
 
9:05 PM
@M.A.R. I'm still not really understanding your point of view, I think...
 
I haven't used a swipy app in a decade.
 
@XanderHenderson the students that know you will reuse exams have an unfair advantage over those who don't
 
@M.A.R. I mean, maybe?
 
We only reuse tests if we can ensure that our pupils cannot take the test home.
 
@Cerberus Indeed. There's also the app where you send people messages.
 
9:06 PM
But for exams I believe all questions must always be new. This is high school.
 
The exam is 30 questions long. 21 of those questions are at the base of Bloom's taxonomy---very recall oriented (do you remember the basic definitions? can you complete a simple one step computation? shit like that).
 
@alphabet That is the only one I have used since then.
 
@Cerberus As in: "The horses are hoofing glue."
 
Hmm not sure I can parse that.
 
That part of the exam is what I am recycling, which small changes (e.g. switching some inequalities around, changing some numbers, etc).
 
9:08 PM
@XanderHenderson well the students in the know will spend a crazy amount of time preparing to answer exactly your exam questions and nothing else
 
Things like "Solve the following equation: $3x + 8 = 2(x+1)$."
 
@Cerberus Hoof some glue and you'll get it.
 
Granted, some subjects we've had have been so difficult students didn't even manage that
 
Or glue-ify some hoofs.
 
nervous sideways glance at physical pharmacy
 
9:08 PM
There are only so many questions you can ask in a precalc class.
 
Is hoof glue huffable?
 
Does that mean stepping into glue with your hooves? Or grind some hooves into glue?
 
@XanderHenderson I mean it has dollars so you're probably rich
 
@Cerberus The joke was about how "hoofing" sounds similar to "huffing."
 
(There is an extension on math, phys and chem metas to render Mathjax in chat)
 
9:09 PM
And, frankly, I don't think that a student who memorizes the exam actually has much of an advantage, since these kinds of questions are supposed to be about automaticity.
 
@alphabet Ahh and huffing is sniffing?
 
@Cerberus The art of writing an opening message that sounds like you put some thought into it, but not too much.
 
Haha.
I rarely write an opening message.
 
@Cerberus Word of the day: huffing. "The practice of inhaling toxic fumes from glue and other household products for their intoxicating effects."
 
9:11 PM
And the ones I get rare have thought put into them.
 
In any event, one of the learning objectives for the precalc class is "Be able to solve a linear equation in one variable." There are not a lot of variations I can throw at students.
 
@alphabet OK nice.
 
@XanderHenderson I confess I have no idea what precalc would look like
 
@M.A.R. Like I said, 21 of the 30 questions are basically about rote memorization and practice---demonstrate that you have automaticity with the essential computations.
 
Nothing online about whether it is possible to get high on glue made from horse hooves. I'm guessing not.
 
9:12 PM
If you can do that, you've earned a C in the class.
(I mean, assuming that all the other work you've completed over the course of the semester is acceptable.)
 
@alphabet Yeah you probably need oil products?
 
@Cerberus Granted, most of them aren't looking for anything serious.
 
This lettering system in America . . . It means people don't rip eacb other's throats out for 1/4th of a mark
Softies
 
@alphabet Although I do think many would be open to it if there is a good click.
 
@M.A.R. I don't understand...?
Why would anyone rip someone else's throat out for a grade?
 
9:14 PM
@Cerberus Indeed, though it can be hard to tell.
 
@Mitch Thank you very much.
 
Surely you are graded against a more absolute / objective standard?
 
I'm joking of course
 
@alphabet I think if there is a reeeally good click, almost anyone will be open to it eventually?
 
But here grading is out of 20, and the numbers give the grades an authenticity they don't have
20, 19.75, 19.5, 19.25 and so forth
 
9:15 PM
@M.A.R. I mean, the way that most American instructors grade is on a scale from 1 to 100. And students do freak the f*ck out over half a point.
 
Again, I'm not as bothered about grades as I sound
 
@Cerberus I usually see looking for hookups and looking for dates as two almost entirely separate processes. Maybe that's just me.
 
Never had trouble with any lesson. I'm a certified double distilled nerd after all.
But it's also wrong to say I'm not bothered at all
 
Honestly, I don't really believe that anyone can give meaningful grades beyond "you failed", "you performed acceptably, and will probably be okay in the next class", and "you did very well, and should consider changing your major to my field".
 
@Cerberus Have you heard about the scary new teen trend, where they snort construction adhesive? /s
 
9:18 PM
Solvents are terribad though
I'd prefer if people snort meth
 
@alphabet Many people may see it that way, but it can still happen that they really like someone they only met casually at first.
@alphabet Isn't that old amongst homeless teens in poor countries?
 
Chronic solvent-induced encephalopathy (CSE) is a condition induced by long-term exposure to organic solvents, often—but not always—in the workplace, that lead to a wide variety of persisting sensorimotor polyneuropathies and neurobehavioral deficits even after solvent exposure has been removed. This syndrome can also be referred to as psycho-organic syndrome, organic solvent syndrome, chronic painter's syndrome, occupational solvent encephalopathy, solvent intoxication, toxic solvent syndrome, painters disease, chronic toxic encephalopathy, or neurasthenic syndrome. The multiple names of solvent...
 
@M.A.R. I've heard that solvents are actually substantially more dangerous than other drugs. That kind of surprises me, given that they're much easier to obtain. But it's not like you could outlaw paint thinner.
 
It has many letters and an abbreviation. It must be very bad.
 
@Cerberus More common there, but certainly found everywhere.
@Cerberus Perhaps. I don't think I'd do that, though.
 
9:19 PM
It used to be occupational, but now that people snort solvents recreationally
I mean, people always did, but someone somewhere made it a trend
 
Well, they don't snort them--they inhale the fumes, right?
Hence my joke about snorting construction adhesive, which would surely be dangerous in a very different way.
 
@alphabet sure. More viscous solvents are probably sorta snorted though
Like, inhaled vigorously
 
@alphabet Why not?
 
@M.A.R. But it's not like you're sucking the liquids into your nose, to my knowledge.
 
Fine fine
 
9:23 PM
@M.A.R. This is one reason why I don't use drugs. You never know.
 
@Cerberus I dunno. Maybe that'll happen to me at some point. But I think most of the people I hook up with aren't people I'd necessarily want to be in a relationship with.
 
Don't do anything with solvents
 
@M.A.R. So how do I remove my nail polish?
 
Just grow your walls out of bamboo and you won't need paint
 
@alphabet Sure.
 
9:24 PM
@M.A.R. Time to replace my bottle of Klean Strip with my bottle of Benadryl.
 
@alphabet the solvent for nail polish is either acetone or hydroalcoholic. Acetone is much less dangerous than toluene or TCE or whatever people sno-I mean inhale
 
@M.A.R. water is the best solvent
 
@Mitch 👍
 
@M.A.R. People do use acetone as an inhalant, I believe.
 
Water sucks as a solvent for most large molecules though.
 
9:26 PM
Dunno if it's more or less effective than paint thinner.
 
Most drugs are very poorly water soluble
And they're not even that large
 
@Cerberus what's ancient Greek for cow?
 
It's a whole science to come up with ways to solubilize drugs. Many drugs are esters or salts for this very reason.
 
When I last moved apartments, the movers refused to take my bottle of industrial-strength xylene (long story). Apparently it's too risky to transport; I'm not sure if it's because of the risk of inhalation or the fire hazard.
 
@M.A.R. I only repeat.mimdlessly what I learn from YouTube shorts
 
9:28 PM
@Mitch Bous.
Why?
 
Everything I know about chemistry I learned from YouTube shorts
 
@Mitch a very useful pair of underwear
 
@Cerberus it sounds like 'boss'
@M.A.R. it's not what they're.made of but how good they look.
@Cerberus See, the servant is calling the slave master the name of a farm animal.
 
Anyway my plan is to go around my apartment pouring it on various surfaces to see what happens.
 
@Mitch Moos like bows in classical pronunciation.
 
9:32 PM
@alphabet I think what will happen is that you will need a lot of paper towels.
@Cerberus close enough for a bad pun
 
I see no problem as long as you don't touch, smell or heat it
 
@Mitch Is he, how?
@Mitch Ohh I get it.
OK Ok!
 
@Mitch I think what will happen is that I'll have a bunch of splotches on everything where the paint is missing. Also next time I turn on the oven I'll die.
 
In the lab we worked with xylene like it was orange syrup
 
@Cerberus snigger
 
9:33 PM
Hmm, why was it orange?
 
@M.A.R. Well, yeah, if you follow the long list of warnings on the bottle, or if you're in a lab, it's probably fine.
 
Oh it had some plant extract
 
@alphabet I don't think you'll die. You'll just get a lot of steam
 
On entering the lab, the character temporarily earns the buff 'invincible' -- immune to all physical and magical damage
 
Watch out though when you open the oven door, that steam is super hot.
@Cerberus to be honest I did not plan on making a pun. That was a total coincidence.
Serendipity of you will.
Alignment of stars I have no control over
Roll of the dice
 
9:35 PM
@M.A.R. That's why I only do drugs when I'm in a lab.
 
It comes naturally to you.
 
@Cerberus not really. When I'm trying they all come out awful, like I'm trying.
 
Oh, no.
 
I'm not sure if amyl nitrite (aka "poppers") is more or less dangerous than other inhalants. It certainly seems to be much more widely used.
I avoid it since it seems like the sort of thing that would be a bad idea.
 
@Cerberus when I'm not trying they also come out awful
But it's a different kind of awful
 
9:39 PM
@alphabet Yeah I would never.
 
The quality of groan they produce is different.
 
I have read on the Internet that some people get permanent effects from them. I think that's brain damage?
 
@Cerberus I've had more than one hookup randomly pull out a bottle and start using it. Never sure how to react to that.
 
@M.A.R. is orange syrup good for making drinks?
 
@alphabet I have met a few. They always asked, though.
But it is hard to say no.
 
9:41 PM
@Cerberus Asked you to use it, or asked before they used it?
 
The latter.
I would never.
 
Ah. I'm a bit worried I might somehow get exposed myself if I got too close.
 
Probably negligible unless you get very close.
 
I only recently figured out that Troye Sivan's "Rush" is about them.
 
I have smelt it from like 1 m away and it is nasty.
 
9:46 PM
Also: while I don't know if they can trigger seizures, I really don't want to find out.
@Cerberus Really? I've been closer to an open bottle than that and haven't been able to smell it. Maybe my sense of smell is bad, or maybe it was a different formulation.
 
@alphabet I have read account on the Internet of very serious effects.
@alphabet Or maybe a whiff can travel in a certain direction at random?
 
@Cerberus Yeah, especially with chronic use. But if it can trigger epilepsy I have a particularly good reason to stay a thousand feet away.
 
@alphabet I read about someone in whom it triggered serious effects after a single use.
Probably rare.
 
Probably.
If you need drugs to enjoy sex, maybe you're just bad at sex.
 
But think about it this way: if it causes serious effects after long use, maybe that is because that is when the damage to your brain becomes so great that it is noticeable. So perhaps each whiff causes some minor damage, some of which irreparable.
@alphabet This may be true!
I do wonder about those who say sex is so much better with drugs.
 
9:52 PM
@Cerberus That's true of most drugs, I think.
 
But I say, great sex is already really great without drugs.
 
And even then, I believe heroin may feel really super good for everyone. But that still doesn't mean I want to use it.
@alphabet You think so?
That is also kind of my fear.
 
He goes over lots of speelings vs probunciations changes over time, and does 'mischiev EE us'
 
@Cerberus In my experience, amphetamines (the legal kind) greatly reduce my interest in sex, but I've heard that some people have the opposite reaction (hence meth abuse).
 
9:55 PM
OK I wouldn't know.
I know alcohol can feel nice but it is bad for sex.
 
@Cerberus I mean, that's true of (say) cigarettes. They have serious effects after long-term use, but that's just the accumulated damage increased by each cigarette.
@Cerberus For someone with the opposite reaction, read the single most batshit insane post on /r/AskDocs.
(Actually, maybe don't click on that link.)
 
@Mitch Ugh I find many linguists so annoying, always pushing the same agenda.
@alphabet Yeah, increased cancer risk is probably never zero?
@alphabet Not sure I can make the conexion.
 
@Cerberus Exactly. And likewise with alcohol. The alcohol industry spent a lot of money trying to convince people that moderate drinking was fine, and possibly even better than not drinking at all. That's total BS, and now public health authorities generally say less alcohol is always better.
 
Yes.
 
@Cerberus The drug being discussed there is another amphetamine drug.
Just one with longer-lasting effects.
 
10:01 PM
Dutch authorities recommend zero glasses.
 
The CDC's guidance is a bit behind that of other countries.
 
But one wonders how bad a few glasses a week is.
I read that about 10 or 15 % of cancer cases was causes by smoking, 5% by alcohol.
And I suspect true alcoholics account for a relatively high proportion of that.
 
Probably hard to calculate, since it depends on what other preexisting risk factors you have.
 
But they have done it for smoking and alcohol as a whole.
 
Huh, I can't say I've seen the data.
I hardly ever drink anyway. If I have one drink it makes me sleepy. If I have two it makes me really anxious and paranoid for some reason.
I told a friend about this and they said I just "hadn't had enough yet."
 
10:11 PM
I read this about cancer in Britain.
Anxious is probably unusual.
 
Yeah I don't understand it either.
I'd suspect some sort of ADHD-related "paradoxical reaction" but I've heard that there's mixed evidence on whether those even actually exist.
 
@Mari-LouA New perhaps to ELU, but hardly new to SE: Member for 6 years, 6 months.
 
I do sometimes drink coffee to calm down when I'm feeling anxious.
 
Odd!
 
I did a bit of stop-start riding on Friday night, and after some thought realised its all about endurance, not power or torque or top speed or aero.
Starting from stopped several times a minute is hard work, and it also will be wearing on the brake pads unless @CowperKettle learns to "coast down" and do the thing then start up again without completely stopping.
My parents drink coffee as a nightcap, before sleep.
I can't drink it after ~2 pm
 
10:26 PM
So odd!
 
@Cerberus You'd think the English or Dutch would have a special word for six years and six months, like a guinea-year or something. :)
Oh, wrong odd. Sorry, wasn't meant for me.
 
Hah, sorry.
We say, half a year. We would not say six months.
 
Remember, tchrist can't see my messages, so he just sees you talking to yourself.
 
Half six? :)
 
Half six means 5.30 o' clock.
 
10:28 PM
The SE natural language conversion system for numerics, including time spans and instance counts, at times leaves something to be desired.
 
Dec 25, 2023 at 4:43, by alphabet
Just reply to this message with "Wow! Your dossier of evidence that @tchrist is the Zodiac Killer is incredibly comprehensive and persuasive."
 
In general, they do a good job, one that approximates what a human would say. But not always.
 
Where is this system?
 
In code it lies.
 
With the shadows?
By the way, I read the Denethor passages again recently.
One might say they are among the most literary of the book, plot-wise.
 
10:31 PM
"Convert this number of seconds to a human-readable expression, keeping only the most significant bits."
 
@Cerberus No half 6 is 6:30 am/pm here
 
So like nobody ever says I'll see you in six hour and thirty minutes. They say I'll see you in six and half hours.
 
short for half-past-6
 
Yep.
 
@tchrist "six-innalf-`ours"
 
10:32 PM
@Criggie But I am talking about here.
 
@Cerberus I think you have to remember to compensate for the International Date Line for him: he probably isn't in Daylight Saving Time right now. :)
 
I didn't know that affected expressions.
 
Noone outside of IT nerds and frequent international travellers routinely use UTC or think about timezones here. Everyone who is in another timezone is literally an ocean away.
 
@XanderHenderson That isn't peanut butter. It's a childish confection.
@Cerberus Just trying to give him the benefit of the doubting Thomas.
@Cerberus Well, Denethor speaks only in "high language", a notably elevated register befitting his station and heritage. It's markèd. There's a paper out there about this, how it's the lyric language of our greatest epic poetry.
 
@tchrist Oh, but I didn't even mean that, I meant plot wise.
Gandalf is like cardboard beside him.
 
10:40 PM
What did you mean by "literary" then?
 
@tchrist Sugar and oils - wonder what happens if you oven-grill it ? Maybe it goes all brown and caramalised like Creme Brulee? Nom.
 
I have to scamper on an errand. Back when I'm back.
 
@tchrist By "literary, plot-wise" I meant how there is nuance in his motives, in his position. And in what is being done to him.
 
Complexity and layers.
 
He loved both his sons, but he loved most the one who was unlike himself, a simple, heroic man.
He blamed his death on his younger son.
 
10:43 PM
The Enemy could not turn him. He was stronger than Saruman.
 
Unjustly, but it happens in severe grief.
 
@tchrist Oh! Six years and yet the user confuses me for a moderator?! Weird. What did Fox and Friends or Foxnews used to call lies....? Alternative facts. And it was Kellyanne Conway who used it.
 
@tchrist Yes, there is that, too.
His will was broken, but not his soul, his virtue.
 
Grief is its own madness.
Or brings it, at times.
 
He was being threatened by usurpation from a decadent branch, in his view.
 
10:45 PM
@Mari-LouA Yes, but the projection is completely Trumpian.
 
Or decaying, or decayed.
@tchrist Indeed.
He was forced to accept the help of a rival, one who was very arrogant and who even kept his own motives a secret. And to whom Gondor was but a pawn, in Denethor's view.
Imagine if Gandalf had told Denethor all that he could do. Then they, together, could have made a plan to defend Minas Tirith, with a central role for Gandalf.
But, no. Gandalf was too arrogant for that.
And Denethor was too arrogant or too proud to ask.
(Or Tolkien was too superficial to consider this, in the tradition of epics.)
 
@Cerberus The North Kingdom was long shattered by Angmar. They became a homeless, wandering people without culture or knowledge in his mind. You can see how he might have come to see them as unworthy of producing an heir to his own junior kingdom. But what Denethor never understood was Elrond's rôle as eternal guardian and preserver of the half-elven line and lore.
 
To the first part: exactly.
Why do you bring up Elrond here?
 
The line of Elros.
His brother.
That's whom Aragorn is heir to.
Not Denethor.
 
Were they not all descended from Elros?
 
10:50 PM
Yes.
 
You mean he did not place enough value in the pure bloodline?
Yes; but is that not understandable?
 
But Elrond never left Middle Earth. He stayed and guarded his brother's people through millennia.
 
Imagine if a ranger of the wilderness were to take control of the last civilised country of men.
@tchrist But to what extent did Elrond prepare Aragorn for the rule of Gondor?
And could Denethor have known this?
 
And he never forgot, not Orodruin, not Thangorodrim. Through living memory he preserved the heritage that would have been normally lost to mortals.
 
I mean, the kingdoms of the north fell in strife.
They couldn't even manage themselves when they were still civilised.
 
10:52 PM
Elrond was Aragorn's foster-father.
 
Why didn't Elrond fix the northern kingdom? Nor the successor kingdoms?
 
"Fix"?
He sent troops, under Glorfindel.
 
No, I can understand why he did not trust the wisdom of the descendents of the northern kings.
@tchrist But he was apparently unable to make the kings of the north wise enough to govern themselves?
 
But there were never enough after the War of Eregion and then of the Last Alliance.
@Cerberus It was dividing the kingdom in three that did them in.
 
Who could promise that such a thing should not happen in Gonder after the take-over?
And would Aragorn not be even less prepared for kingship than his ancestors, the kings of Arnor who actually ruled a kingdom?
 
10:56 PM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer (93): Rather unusual usage of the word “churn”‭ by Vull‭ on english.SE
 
Nobody told Denethor that Aragorn was the holy messiah who could do everything.
 
I always read in that an echo of the turmoil in the last we now call Spain a bit before the turn of the millennium when a king died and his three sons each grabbed up a split-off kingdom for themselves.
@Cerberus Noöne knew that part. He took the Stone of Feänor as its lawful lord, and shook the Enemy with it. He summoned up the Dead.
None of these things could Denethor do, howsoever noble he may have been.
 
@tchrist Hmm I do not remember that time, wasn't it mostly Moorish then?
@tchrist So then, in short, I think Denethor's position is difficult here, I understand his mistrust.
 
@Cerberus There were two periods: first the death of Alfonso III in 910, splintering his kingdom between his three sons. Then the recombination under Sancho II almost a century and a half later, the time of El Cid.
It was all a royal mess.
 
Oh, they had already reconquered quite a lot.
 
11:09 PM
Yes. Roncesvalles was well in the past by then, when Orlando turned the Moor.
 
At any rates, those are a few things which make Denethor such a complex character to me.
 
You are right.
 
And so believably positioned.
Saruman's fall is only described summarily.
As in, very briefly and abstractly.
Some arrogance, some jealousy of Gandalf.
 
> The city of León was founded by the Legio VII Gemina ("twin seventh legion") of the Roman Empire. It was the headquarters of that legion in the Late Roman Empire and was a centre for trade in gold, which was mined at Las Médulas nearby. In 540, the city was conquered by the Arian Visigothic king Liuvigild[...] In 717, León fell again, this time to the Moors. However, León was one of the first cities retaken during the Reconquista and became part of the Kingdom of Asturias in 742.
 
So soon, already.
And never reconquered by the Moors?
 
11:12 PM
Asturias? No, Asturias never fell.
That's why the Prince of Asturias is the crown prince, the heir.
Up in the mountains, it never fell.
Roncesvalles was 778.
The Kingdom of Asturias was a kingdom in the Iberian Peninsula founded by the Visigothic nobleman Pelagius. It was the first Christian political entity established after the Umayyad conquest of Visigothic Hispania in 711. In 718 or 722 (sources differ), Pelagius defeated an Umayyad army at the Battle of Covadonga, in what is retroactively regarded as the beginning of the Reconquista. The Asturian kings would occasionally make peace with the Muslims, particularly at times when they needed to pursue their other enemies, the Basques and rebels in Galicia. Thus Fruela I (757–768) fought Muslims but...
There is still some confusion from those times, things we will likely never know for sure.
But far more do we know of those time than we do of Ambrosius Aurelianus in Britain three centuries earlier. Emrys himself.
Which reminds me, my nephew of that name graduated summa cum laude yesterday. I knew it was a good name.
 
Emrys?
 
Aye.
Common people will have come to know it in that BBC fantasy series from a decade or so ago, The Adventures of Merlin. But the literate amongst us have always known it. And my family, well, we read.
 
Not a name one hears often.
The leader of the small crazy-right party here has named his son Lancelot.
> Díaz de Vivar became well known for his service in the armies of both Christian and Muslim rulers. After his death, El Cid became Spain's most celebrated national hero and the protagonist of the most significant medieval Spanish epic poem, El Cantar de mio Cid,[1] which presents him as the ideal medieval knight: strong, valiant, loyal, just, and pious.
Very pious of the national hero of Spain, fighting for the Muslim rulers.
@tchrist Congratulations.
 
11:31 PM
His father handed him his award, a singular honor.
Tenure affords many privileges, apparently.
@Cerberus Thank you.
 
A happy day.
 
In most ways, but not all.
After this, the diaspora.
It doesn't matter to me. It does, and greatly, to others.
 
A diaspora of students away from the university town?
 
@Cerberus It isn't clear to me that Asturias was really even a kingdom before it launched the Reconquista from its green fastness. More a land of mountain strongholds to which the last of the resistance had fled.
@Cerberus No, the boy will now leave his home town, his family, and his state.
 
I see.
@tchrist Oh, why that?
Temporarily?
 
11:38 PM
@Cerberus His fiancée is pursuing graduate studies in Chicago, so thither he shall follow.
 
Alas.
 
I feel the engagement may have been rushed to seal that deal.
But they've lived together for a year, and gone together since both started out as undergrads. So I'm probably exaggerating.
 
Such young partnerings often do not last?
 
I know.
 
Enjoy the now.
 
11:46 PM
Oh, well.
 
@Cerberus which agenda is it that you don't like?
 
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